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Thread: American Civil War 2012-????

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    Default American Civil War 2012-????

    Folks, we are at war. Officially. You don't really know it, but Americans are being killed by the established "authorities" for no just cause.

    We've lost SEALs who chose to fight for this country and at times speak out. We've lost reporters to "weird" car accidents, or sudden, inexplicable "heart problems". We've lost other veterans to strange circumstances with killers who were supposed to be friends.

    Americans are being killed by Cops on a regular basis, usually people who can't really fight back.

    Read this one:

    Why did cops kill this 95-year-old in walker?

    Posted on August 6, 2013 by Land & Livestock Interntional, Inc.
    “The elderly veteran was shot down by enemy fire during the war.” And he was shot down by enemy fire on July 26, 2013. And a grateful nation says “thank you” one more time. — jtl, 419
    World War II hero Tasered, shot in stomach


    by Chelsea Schilling via World Net Daily


    Chelsea Schilling is a commentary editor and staff writer for WND, an editor of Jerome Corsi’s Red Alert and a proud U.S. Army veteran. She has also worked as a news producer at USA Radio Network and as a news reporter for the Sacramento Union.






    A 95-year-old man who served his country during World War II is now dead after police stormed his retirement home with riot shields, Tasered him and shot him with bean bag rounds – all because he adamantly refused to undergo high-risk surgery.


    U.S. Army Air Corps veteran John Wrana, who was honorably discharged as a sergeant after he served in the India-Burma campaign, used a walker because family members said he was “wobbly” on his feet, according to the Chicago Tribune. The elderly veteran was shot down by enemy fire during the war.


    On July 26, a doctor reportedly told Wrana if he survived surgery, he would likely be put on life support. The elderly man refused the operation, and paramedics attempted to involuntarily transport him for medical treatment. He was sitting in a chair, holding a cane and a shoe horn when police arrived at the Victory Centre senior living facility located just south of Chicago.


    The Cook County medical examiner reported that Wrana bled to death internally from injuries caused when the elderly man was shot in the stomach with a 12-gauge shotgun that fired a bag filled with lead shot. The death has been ruled a homicide, according to reports.


    “The Japanese military couldn’t get him at the age he was touchable, in a uniform in the war,” Wrana family attorney Nicholas Grapsas told the Tribune.

    “It took 70 years later for the Park Forest police to do the job.”


    Grapsas said he was told “there were between five and seven police officers” at the scene.


    The Chicago Sun-Times reported that the Illinois State Police Public Integrity Unit is investigating the incident. According to the Park Forest police account, Grapsas had threatened officers with a two-foot-long metal shoe horn and cane.


    “Attempts were made verbally to have the resident comply with demands to drop the articles, to no avail,” the police statement said. “The resident then armed himself with a 12-inch butcher type kitchen knife.”


    But Grapsas told the Tribune the staff and Wrana’s family said they never saw a butcher knife in his room.


    “So where did the knife come from?” the attorney asked.


    Maria Oliva, an executive with Pathway Senior Living, said staff members were kept outside of the room when police were present.


    “The staff was not inside once the police were on the scene,” she said. “At different times the staff were in there, but not when they were called. They (the police) were in charge at that point.”


    While police said Wrana had made threats against the staff, Grapsas said staff members urged police to let them calm the elderly man.


    “If there were threats to the staff, why did the staff want to intervene and say, ‘Let us handle this; we’ll get him calmed down’?” he asked.


    Now Wrana’s family is desperate for an explanation.


    “I want answers,” his 74-year-old step-daughter said. “I want someone held accountable.”

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    wtf. He was 95. It was high risk surgery. He simply chose quality of life over what little extra longevity the surgery might have brung him and living final days on life support in a bed. He was simply wanting to go out on his own terms, and at 95 I certainly wouldn't begrudge him that. I'd want that.

    The police there were so gaddam far out of line I can't even wrap my mind around wtf they were thinking.

    “I want answers,” his 74-year-old step-daughter said. “I want someone held accountable.”
    Damn straight.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    Well, he DID pick up a knife.... that's their excuse. Come on, if you can't, as a trained professional disarm an old man who can barely stand up in the first place, then you shouldn't be a cop, you should turn in your fucking man-card and you should wear heels and pink panties.

    I don't understand this at all.

    I can see them shooting ME when I'm walking with a cane because I'm a "trained professional" and I'm trained in the use of sticks, swords and staves.

    You know what pisses me off the most is the staff of the place couldn't calm him down? Why call the cops?

    Everyone is at fault here.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    I understand the dangers of facing someone with a knife, and I hate to Monday morning quarterback, but the man was 95 fucking years old!

    What did they think was going to happen with a beanbag round at close range on a 95 year old? Beanbag rounds are NOT non-lethal, they're less lethal rounds. Why not pepper spray? Yeah, you're going to get some secondary effects inside but suck it up buttercup. Honestly, even a Taser would have been a better option.

    I would also like to know why the facility staff were not involved. I can almost guarantee they're trained/used to dealing with people suffering from various types of dementia.

    I suppose if your only tool is a hammer, all you will see is nails.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    I was being sarcastic when I mentioned the knife, I hope you know that.

    An old man like that has brittle bones. Hell, I am having trouble "jumping" out of the bed of my truck now. I am starting to 'feel' my age and I realize I can break shit now more easily than I could as a kid. So, I can't even imagine a 95 year old doing that unless he did "suicide by cop"?

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    I mean.. "Why go quietly into that good night" if he didn't have to? Why give in to a stupid surgery which was going to leave him an invalid anyway? Why NOT cause a problem and go out as a warrior?

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????


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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    Big Sis has plans.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    Obviously I don't know the details of this particular case, but this is yet another attempt in my book to bring to light the "kooks against the government" in a way that makes the government look good.

    What the facts are, I'm not yet sure. However, do we really BELIEVE the government saying that "those guys are trying to do these things" to put a bad light on "those guys"?

    Really?

    I don't trust the government any more. They don't trust the people. There's a serious problem here.

    The only way to fix it is for the government to back the hell off of the people.

    August 23, 2013 9:17 AM

    Sovereign Citizens Murder Plot: Devon Campbell and Devin Brutsche charged with plotting to kill Vegas police





    Devon Campbell Newman (left) Devin Allen Brutsche (right)
    / Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department via CBS affiliate KLAS



    (CBS/AP) LAS VEGAS - A couple spent hundreds of hours over four months plotting to abduct, torture and kill Las Vegas police officers as a way to attract attention to their anti-authority "sovereign citizens" movement, police said.

    David Allen Brutsche and Devon Campbell Newman attended training sessions about sovereign citizen philosophy, shopped for guns, found a vacant house and rigged it to bind captives to cross beams during interrogation, and recorded videos to explain their actions and why officers had to die.


    The movement they were intending to promote does not follow U.S. laws.


    At every step, police said Thursday, an undercover officer was with them, documenting and recording the alleged plot.


    Newman, 67, of Las Vegas was a bit nervous, according to a police report. She asked at one meeting to unplug the television because she thought authorities could use it to listen to their conversations.


    Brutsche 42, an ex-con child sex offender from California, practiced stalking Newman, posing as a police officer and putting a gun to her head to take her into custody, the report said.


    The SWAT arrests of Brutsche and Newman this week at their apartment about three miles east of the Las Vegas Strip, scuttled a carefully planned operation to draw the world's attention to the sovereign citizen cause, Las Vegas police Lt. James Seebock told reporters. He characterized the case as a domestic terror plot.


    "They were furthering their `sovereign citizen' ideology by committing criminal acts toward law enforcement," Seebock said.


    "The suspects believed that once the first kidnapping and execution was accomplished, they would be compelled to keep repeating their actions, kidnapping and killing multiple officers."


    Federal authorities regard sovereign citizen extremists as domestic terrorists. Authorities have linked sovereign citizen groups with violent confrontations in recent years, including deadly police shootings in Louisiana and Arkansas.


    In Louisiana last year, police said that at least some of the seven people arrested after a shootout that left two deputies dead and two others wounded had links to a sovereign citizen group.


    In Arkansas in 2010, a father and son identified as sovereign citizen followers shot and killed two police officers before being killed by authorities in a separate shootout.


    Brutsche and Newman were held Thursday at the Clark County jail in Las Vegas pending court appearances on charges including conspiracy to commit murder and attempted kidnapping. It was not immediately known if they had lawyers.


    Police said the investigation began when the unidentified undercover officer befriended Brutsche and Newman in April.


    Authorities haven't released video evidence, but the 10-page police report states that every one of the 30 meetings with the undercover officer was recorded by audio or video.


    "We need to arrest the police and take them to our jail and put them in a cell and put them on trial in a people's court," Brutsche said July 9, according to the arrest report. "If we run into the position that they resist, then we need to kill them."



    During a tour of gun stores the next day, Brutsche said that what they were planning was going to be big, "and that they would really get a large following once they started because of the publicity," the report said.



    Police said that when Brutsche was arrested, he denied that police had authority to hold him.


    Newman told a KLAS-TV reporter in a jailhouse interview Thursday that she didn't really think Brutsche was serious about kidnapping and killing police, and that officers overstepped their authority in arresting her.


    She also denied being involved in the "sovereign citizens" movement, but agreed with people that believe in restrictions on the government outlined in the Constitution.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    Woman in Metro plot: 'Do I look like a domestic terrorist?'

    Posted: Aug 22, 2013 11:00 PM MST Updated: Aug 23, 2013 8:05 AM MST Written by Craig Huber - email
    and Doug Johnson -




    David Brutsche (left) and Devon Newman (Source: LVMPD)

    LAS VEGAS (FOX5) -

    An alleged plot to kidnap, torture and murder Metro police officers was foiled by a month-long undercover investigation, according to police.
    MORE

    Pair accused of plotting to kidnap, kill police officers




    A man and woman were arrested Sunday after a months-long investigation into their plot to kidnap, try by jury and execute police officers for treason, according to a police report.


    According to the arrest report from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, 42-year-old David Brutsche and 67-year-old Devon Newman were identified as members of the Sovereign Citizen movement by undercover officers who were observing a group since April.



    Two people, both of whom police say are members of the sovereign citizens movement, are now behind bars.







    One of those suspects, Devon Newman, spoke with FOX5 from jail on Thursday, claiming the allegations leveled against her are untrue and she never should have been arrested.


    "I have never been arrested in my life. I've never done anything for which I could be arrested," Newman said.


    Newman, 67, is locked up in Clark County Detention Center, along with accused accomplice David Brutsche, 42, accused of planning to kidnap and kill at least one police officer.


    Newman said she has been wrongfully accused.


    "I never intended to harm or kidnap anyone," she said.


    Newman said she met Brutsche while he was accepting donations in exchange for water bottles on the Strip.


    While Newman admitted she has issues with the Metropolitan Police Department, she said that rather than kidnap officers, she had planned to record them on video in order to report misconduct.


    "I wanted to be able to film these things and turn them in to internal affairs and the DA so that these people could be brought back under control," she said.
    That's a far cry from what police claim she planned. During a news conference on Thursday, the department claimed Newman and Brutsche were planning to kidnap officers, hold mock trials and execute them for violating the Constitution.


    "Both were charged with conspiracy to commit murder, attempted first-degree kidnapping with use of a weapon and conspiracy to commit kidnapping," Metro's Lt. Jim Seebock said.


    Metro said sovereign citizens are regarded as domestic terror threats by the FBI. Newman laughed off the fact that police are painting her as a terrorist.
    "Do I look like a domestic terrorist?" she asked.


    Newman said no one has discussed her charges with her so far. She also said she has cancer and that officers are ignoring her requests for medication.


    "I've asked for my thyroid medicine, which I've not gotten. I've asked for my cream, which I've not gotten. I've asked for bottled water, which I've not gotten," she said.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    Fuck those "sovereign citizen" assholes. Of course the press is more than happy to try and twist them into representatives of Constitutionalism when they are nothing but conspiracy kooks.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    Yeah, that was my point. I don't believe the government has the right to do a lot of what they say they can do. But I also think we need to have some kind of order in the country.

    Being left alone is one thing. Planning to kill cops is another. Fighting the government corruption, or being against big government is one thing, wanting to kill people another.

    The government seems to NOT see the separation of these things. And some people don't either I guess.

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    So the other day Ryan and I had a quick chat in email. Nothing really significant. Me voicing my concerns over something - a feeling I couldn't quite put my finger on. The conversation was short, a couple of notes going back and forth.

    I never really came away from the conversation really understanding what it is I am "feeling". I usually ignore "feelings" unless it's a gut reaction NOT to do something STUPID. Then I like to listen to that little internal voice that says "That's gonna leave a mark.....".

    Today I was wandering around the Internet (I'm sick as a dying dog, some kind of cold I guess or maybe a flu virus... taking meds, the head isn't clear, that sort of thing) and I came across a blog saying "Can you feel it?".

    Digging deeper I found the original article - and it expresses almost EXACTLY what I was trying to say a few days ago, but couldn't quite articulate my thoughts on the subject.

    Now, about this article, be aware this is coming from a leftis-enviromentalist type thinking - not a capitalist, and not a Conservative. If even the Left is "feeling" the same thing I'm feeling, there's something going on. I still can't quite put my finger on it - but I honestly think we're certainly in the middle of a Counter-Revolution - to fight assholes like Obama, the Global Warming Hoaxers and the Greenies - as well the the US Government who has been dragged deeply into a "Pit them against them" situation.


    So, without further ado here we go:

    Can You Feel It? People are Getting More Tense as Anti-Human New Political Order Takes Shape

    As the loss of economic and political right increases, the population is getting spooked.








    Photo Credit: Shutterstock.com



    August 20, 2013 |



    Perhaps I’m just having a bad month, but I wonder if other readers sense what I’m detecting. I fancy if someone did a Google frequency search on the right terms, they might pick up tangible indicators of what I’m sensing (as in I’m also a believer that what people attribute to gut feeling is actually pattern recognition).


    The feeling I have is that of heightened generalized tension, the social/political equivalent of the sort of disturbance that animals detect in advance of earthquakes or volcanic eruptions, of pressure building up along major fault lines. The other way to articulate this vibe is that it is as if events are being influenced by a large unseen gravitational or magnetic force, as if a black hole had moved into the ‘hood. We can’t see the hidden superdense object, but we can infer that it’s distorting the space around it.


    Now if you just want to go with the “maybe this is just your neurosis” view, we are in the midst of a counterrevolution, and it’s not exactly cheery to be watching its progress on a daily basis.


    It isn’t just that the economic rights for ordinary workers and the social safety nets of the New Deal and the earlier labor movements here and abroad are being demolished.

    Major elements of a broad social and political architecture that served as the foundation for the Industrial Revolution are being torn apart: the Statute of Fraud (essential to give people of every level of society decent protection of property rights) and access to legal remedies; basic protection of personal rights (habeas corpus, due process, protection against unlawful search and seizure); local policing (as in policing being accountable to local governments). Decent quality public education and the freedom of the press are also under assault. People here have used various terms for this new political order that is being put in place; neofeudalism works as well as any, but it looks intended to dial the clock back on many economic and civil rights of ordinary people, not back to the Gilded Age, but to before the French and American Revolutions.


    The sense of heightened tension isn’t that this program is underway, or the recent phases have moved rapidly (that’s bad enough) but that ordinary people are increasingly aware of it, and the folks behind it didn’t want to be caught out at this delicate stage. Imagine if you were executing a coup and got exposed, before you had seized all the critical installations you needed to capture for your victory to be complete.


    The collective awareness of the degree of loss of economic and political rights we had all taken for granted, has risen considerably as a result of the Snowden/Greenwald/Poitras revelations. If you haven’t read it yet, the fact that the New York Times ran a favorable Sunday magazine cover story on Laura Poitras (in striking contrast to its earlier hatchet job on Glenn Greenwald) and discussed in some detail how routine communication on the web are simply not secure and depicted the considerable measures Snowden, Greenwald, and Poitras have had to take (and by implication, ordinary people ought to be taking) is an indicator of the fault lines among the elites. A story like that (a story! not My Eyes Glaze Over reports on what sorts of surveillance might or might not be permissible under various programs most American can’t bother to keep track of) brings home in a visceral way how far Big Brother has gone to a large national audience. As Atlantic put it:

    The New York Times Magazine cover story by Peter Maass detailing how Edward Snowden reached out to the two reporters that broke the NSA surveillance story isn’t about that surveillance. It’s only sort of about journalism. Instead, it’s largely a story about how close to the boundaries of civilization you must get — literally and figuratively — to be assured that you can protect your privacy. And it’s about how the United States government pushes people there.
    But notice the Atlantic played it chicken by calling Poitras “paranoid” in its headline. If you read the abuse Poitras’ suffered when she would return to the US, including having her equipment repeatedly seized and the data searched, “paranoid” is the last word you’d use. “Prudent” is more like it.


    And we have the drip drip drip of ongoing revelations such as XKeyscore, “mistaken” surveillance of thousands of ordinary Americans (and you can bet a lot more is dressed up as legit), CIA surveillance of Aaron Swartz and Noam Chomsky (Chomsky? Surveilling an academic successfully relegated to the “so left he’s irrelevant” ghetto? If he’s treated as a threat, the threat threshold is awfully low).


    Now as a netizen, as well as someone who has been following the Big Brother story reasonably closely, I could be charged with overreacting to that. But Obama is losing his famous cool. It may simply be an coincidence of timing (as in he’s fighting his inevitable slide into lame duck status and none too happy about that) but he’s been visibly heavy handed of late. This is just off the top of my head:

    Derailing Grayson’s session with Greenwald (which will go ahead in September, so what sort of victory was it to push it into a busier news period?)
    Getting snippy in that Democratic caucus meeting when asked about Larry Summers and later calling senators who opposed Summers to his office to tell them to lay off


    Launching a Big Lie speaking tour on how he’s creating middle class jobs (which seems to be landing like a lead balloon)
    Launching a faux independent surveillance investigation (as I’ve said before, having Clapper on the committee is tantamount to saying, “So what are you going to do? Impeach me?”)


    A bizarre flurry of “look, over there, an airplane” of actions that garner positive headlines. Mind you, this is standard operating procedure…except that there’s been a weird flurry in August, when most of them could have been held back to September: the London Whale prosecutions. Opposing the AMR-US Air merger. The announcement of an investigation into the use of antipsychotics on children.
    Shorter: Obama looks off balance.


    And we’ve got a whole ‘nother front opening up, that of municipal bankruptcies and restructurings, which puts the war against municipal workers and unions back in the headlines and creates another looting opportunity for Wall Street, in the form of privatizations. Ugh.


    Or maybe the inchoate sense of pressure is real, but I’m looking in the wrong place for explanations. A newly-published study ascertained that climate change increases violence. And we also have that long-standing Roubini call that 2013 will see a new outbreak of crisis, and winter October is coming.


    So readers: do you have a similar sense of a collective rise in pressure, or tangible signs of disturbance among what passes for our elites? Or is this just me trying to draw a trend line through a random set of data?

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    Default Re: American Civil War 2012-????

    And ANOTHER Leftist speaks up.....

    Speaking of Chomsky....

    Chomsky: Palin was right about Obama’s ‘hopey-changey’ gimmick

    By Katie McHugh 3:25 PM 08/21/2013

    Tweet












    Public intellectual and left-wing activist Noam Chomsky gave measured praise to Sarah Palin in a Monday interview with DemocracyNow, saying she was right to criticize President Barack Obama’s substanceless campaigning.


    “I don’t usually admire Sarah Palin, but when she was making fun of this ‘hopey-changey’ stuff, she was right,” Chomsky said. “There was nothing there. And it was understood by the people who run the political system.”


    Chomsky, author of over 100 books and trenchant critic of mass mainstream media, said that the presidency is a prize awarded to the best campaigner.


    “It’s no great secret that the U.S. electoral system is mainly a public relations extravaganza to keep away from issues,” Chomsky continued. “It’s sort of a marketing affair.

    And the people who run it are the advertisers. … They had their national convention right after the 2008 election and revealed that they understood perfectly what was going on. And they gave Obama the award for best marketing campaign of the year.”


    The author dismissed Obama from the beginning — he never expected anything but “smoke and mirrors” from his administration, he said, and has stridently criticized the president’s positions on civil liberties. Back in June, Chomsky said Obama’s drone strike policy terrorized civilians and turned them against the U.S.

    “Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, maybe in history: the drone assassination campaigns, which are just part of it. … All of these operations, they are terror operations,” he said in an interview with GRITtv. “You are generating more terrorist operations.”


    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/21/ch...#ixzz2coCqG1nc

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