Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Ryan, that's an intelligent unbiased question.
Rick,
You're still arguing using conjecture, not fact, to the relevant point. You say he is not born here, then prove it. Just saying "I"M A CITIZEN I PROVED IT 100 TIMES OVER" is not proof that Obama is not a citizen. Prior to today, everyone's "proof" was that he wouldn't show his "original" bc. He just showed it. I'm not asking or asserting ANYTHING that any normal unbiased and honest person would. I'm simply asking ANYONE to provide the proof that Obama is not born in the USA.
Another thing to think about. You don't have proof he DIDN'T supply this information to anyone. I haven't seen one news article or law suit that said "1st man graduates from Harvard without supplying a bc".
You keep asserting YOUR citizenship. We all got that. Loud and clear. Your citizenship is not in question. Obama's is. And, Obama just asserted his citizenship. Btw Rick, I notice you really jump the gun on a lot of discussion here. This is your board. You can do what you want. But it seems unbecoming of you to do so. I understand you're passionate about this but sometimes you get more emotional and less scientific about the debating process. Once again, that's your right. Not suggesting you stop. Not suggesting anything other than it's not like a person to claim "free thinker" then lump people into a category for simply disagreeing or pointing out flaws in a logical argument.
There are other avenues to explore here btw. Ryan pointed out a good point. Also, is there ANYTHING that could make a US born child lose his/her citizenship? What is the definition of a natural born citizen? Does he technically qualify knowing his dad was from Kenya and not a US citizen?
April 27th, 2011, 20:18
Toad
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
I'm noticing the constitution and it's amendments, primarily the 12th and 14th, do not specifically define what constitutes "natural born". It seems to be a matter argued in court and Congress through the decades. Specifically, the parental citizenships and the need of only ONE parent to be a US Citizen. Compounding the problem, what has been accepted in the court of law from the 1700s to now has changed multiple times. "Natural born" appears to extend beyond 'born in the US of two US citizens'. Wiki has a good article on the entire subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural...Citizen_Clause
April 27th, 2011, 20:21
zenbudda
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toad
I'm noticing the constitution and it's amendments, primarily the 12th and 14th, do not specifically define what constitutes "natural born". It seems to be a matter argued in court and Congress through the decades. Specifically, the parental citizenships and the need of only ONE parent to be a US Citizen. Compounding the problem, what has been accepted in the court of law from the 1700s to now has changed multiple times. "Natural born" appears to extend beyond 'born in the US of two US citizens'. Wiki has a good article on the entire subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural...Citizen_Clause
I think that Orly Taitz attorney tried to challenge this. It was really weird how none of the media really picked up on it. They dismissed her as a kook. I think her case was that since his dad was not a citizen of the US or a citizen of a country that could maintain dual citizenship with the US then that meant he wasn't a natural born citizen (or something to that nature).
April 27th, 2011, 20:28
American Patriot
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda
Ryan, that's an intelligent unbiased question.
Rick,
You're still arguing using conjecture, not fact, to the relevant point. You say he is not born here, then prove it. Just saying "I"M A CITIZEN I PROVED IT 100 TIMES OVER" is not proof that Obama is not a citizen. Prior to today, everyone's "proof" was that he wouldn't show his "original" bc. He just showed it. I'm not asking or asserting ANYTHING that any normal unbiased and honest person would. I'm simply asking ANYONE to provide the proof that Obama is not born in the USA.
No, I never said any such thing. I said I don't BELIEVE he was born here now, and I'll repeat my points.
1) He will NOT show a CERTIFIED COPY of his original birth Certificate.
2) He has spent an enormous amount of money to HIDE something.
3) Moveon.Org and Factcheck.org are part and parcel of the same side of a coin - leftist organizations helping him HIDE things.
None of that is conjecture. Show me the money.
He has NOT shown an original birth certificate, and even if he had, it's not his "Certified Copy". Just show it. That's all he has to do. Just SHOW it. The copy he showed today is a forgery. I'm not going to tell you how I know, but I KNOW it is.
Quote:
Another thing to think about. You don't have proof he DIDN'T supply this information to anyone. I haven't seen one news article or law suit that said "1st man graduates from Harvard without supplying a bc".
If he did, it's a public record, on file in Illinois and it's not on file. In nearly all the states you have to file papers to run for offices... in particular, he had to file to run to be Senator.
Specifically, he had to show he was at least 30, a citizen of the US for at least 9 years prior to running and a resident of the state in which he lived.
That means he showed someone something.... now where is that record?
it's hidden away for some reason.
Why? I don't know - I can only guess he wouldn't want you to know about his birth certificate or some other information that would have been detrimental to him in his run for Senate and later for President.
Quote:
You keep asserting YOUR citizenship. We all got that. Loud and clear. Your citizenship is not in question. Obama's is.
Yes you're correct, perhaps you "got it" but you're not hearing me.
No, my citizenship isn't in question because I did what was REQUIRED of me and showed every agency that has ever asked for it, my certified birth certificate copy.
Quote:
And, Obama just asserted his citizenship. Btw Rick, I notice you really jump the gun on a lot of discussion here.
I don't "jump the gun". I assert my point of view. tough shit if you don't fucking like it. That's my RIGHT to do so, and I'm sick and tired of people like you playing games with the American public.
Quote:
This is your board.
It's RYAN's board.
Quote:
You can do what you want.
It's a free country.
Quote:
But it seems unbecoming of you to do so.
In your OPINION, because I don't knuckle under and let people walk over me. If you don't like it, move along.
Quote:
I understand you're passionate about this but sometimes you get more emotional and less scientific about the debating process.
There's no emotion in this, Zen... it's the very fact that there is a damned lot of evidence the guy isn't a citizen, and you simply discount it because you want things your way. Like Obama.
Not this time, I want things MY way, and that is - SHOW ME A BIRTH CERTIFICATE that has be absolutely certified by a state official. NOT ONCE has any such thing been shown. NOT ONCE.
Quote:
Once again, that's your right. Not suggesting you stop. Not suggesting anything other than it's not like a person to claim "free thinker" then lump people into a category for simply disagreeing or pointing out flaws in a logical argument.
There isn't any flaw in my logic. I don't believe the man is a citizen for the exact reasons I've cited. Up until today however, that wasn't true. I had long ago thought that the "birther movement" was stupid.
As of today for some reasons I can't cite right this minute - because it would lead some specific complications, I am saying absolutely, without a doubt, that document provided today was a FRAUD. An absolute FAKE. It is a forgery.
WORSE its not even certified by the state of Hawaii. Sorry, it isn't going to fly.
Quote:
There are other avenues to explore here btw. Ryan pointed out a good point. Also, is there ANYTHING that could make a US born child lose his/her citizenship? What is the definition of a natural born citizen? Does he technically qualify knowing his dad was from Kenya and not a US citizen?
You can not lose your citizenship by having it taken from you. The government can not do it.
The sections of the law that pertained to losing ones nationality is found at 8 USC 1482... you might wanna look it up for yourselves.
You can lose your citizenship by:
Becoming naturalized citizen of another country.
Swearing an oath of allegiance to another country.
By being convicted of committing treason.
Formally renouncing citizenship at a U.S. consular office.
Formally renouncing citizenship to the U.S. Attorney General.
Serving in the armed forces of a nation at war with the U.S., or if you are an officer in that force.
Working for the government of another nation if doing so requires that you become naturalized or that you swear an oath of allegiance.
Definition of a "natural born citizen" has to do with the soil upon which one is born and not through blood (jus sanguinis) - my latin is pretty rusty so look it up for yourself. In other words if you're born in any of the states of the US, its territories or for instance, on a military installation, you're automagically a US "Natural" citizen.
If you're born to parents living in a foreign country, both of whom are citizens of the US and have not renounced their citizenship - you probably are a citizen.
Obama doesn't fall into that group. His parents were neither one US citizens.
His only recourse is to have been born in Hawaii which was a territory in 1959 and a state in August of 1959. Obama being born there would make him a citizen.
Just show me a real, honest to God, not forged birth certificate - one that was made up on Abobe, and wasn't created by modifying segments of other person's certificates. One that was photocopied directly from the records, and then actually certified by the clerk and recorder responsible for the records of the state.
Until then, like I have had to do dozens of times, he needs to show that record to the people of this country who are questioning it and stop stalling.
This is no longer a question of whether he was born there or not - it's a question of ethics - and as of today, I have ZERO trust for the man. The document was a forgery and it was done to protect him.
April 27th, 2011, 20:35
Ryan Ruck
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Don't know if anyone has seen this but this has also been released.
In this example picture they are twin daughters of the same woman, born a day later than Obama at the same facility, but the certificate numbers are lower than his. Odd...
April 27th, 2011, 21:06
New Guy
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
In this example picture they are twin daughters of the same woman, born a day later than Obama at the same facility, but the certificate numbers are lower than his. Odd...
Ryan, this one also shows something very interesting... the little X's over the twins/triplets and the other random marks. take a peek. possible they used carbon paper to make copies back then i suppose, or was it a way to double check the entries maybe? I suppose some people (no one here) will think that they took a copy of one of these and switched the names etc since the marks seem to match up.
April 27th, 2011, 22:29
catfish
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Who is the registrar? Ukelele? The instrument?
April 28th, 2011, 00:35
zenbudda
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
"I don't "jump the gun". I assert my point of view. tough shit if you don't fucking like it. That's my RIGHT to do so, and I'm sick and tired of people like you playing games with the American public."
I officially challenge you (and you WILL LOSE) to back that up with facts. You have none. It's pure witless vitriol. Sadly enough, you are better than this. Disagreeing with your emotion IS NOT unpatriotic, and is NOT bringing America to it's knees. People flying off the handle and making pointless and un-factual accusations however, is.
Back to the task at hand. There is no current, solid evidence that the bc he presented was forged or fake. Like 9/11, the crackpot evidence is interesting to say the least. But it's not by far PROOF that it's a fake. By all means, if someone finds it's a fake, let's see the proof. THAT'S what I've been asking for. Somehow my desire to focus on facts and not emotion has got some people riled.
I'm going to re-voice this again before Rick blows a gasket (un-neccessarily). If the bc is a fake (there IS NO CURRENT EVIDENCE TO FACTUALLY AND CONCLUSIVELY SUPPORT THIS), by all means, something drastic needs to happen. I don't agree with certain avenues Obama has chosen for our country. There are certain things I don't trust about him, period. There are and were things i don't trust about Bush Jr and Bush Sr either. But facts are facts, and emotion distorts how those facts are digested.
Ryan,
Having worked in the software industry (both private and government) I can attest to the fact that certification number ranges change from time to time. Maybe they switched software?
Also, think about SSN's. I grew up new the Austin, TX area. I think my SSN was request from an office in San Marcos. People I graduated with that born around the same month that got theirs from Austin are in a different range than the ones that got theirs from San Marcos.
But that does make for an interesting find. Hell, it's from the same hospital and supposed to be a few days apart. Maybe there were some complications in filing for the bc hence the later number? Something tells me though, if he did spend as much money as Rick proposes, they would have thought of that. He had enough time to fake a bc. Hell, illegal immigrants have been faking them for quite some time. A guy with unlimited resources would be able to create a brand new retro-active bc lol.
April 28th, 2011, 02:23
vector7
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Pat Buchanan defends why he is skeptical of President Obama's past.
"I'll tell you what. He went to Occidental College then suddenly he ends up at one of the best schools in the country, Columbia. He vaults from there to Harvard Law School. Suddenly he's on the Harvard Law Review. Suddenly he's the editor of Harvard Law Review. We've never seen any grades of the guy. These are legitimate questions," Buchanan said.
Key quote: Pat Buchanan to Chris Matthews: "You're supposed to be a journalist."
April 28th, 2011, 02:50
Ryan Ruck
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda
Ryan,
Having worked in the software industry (both private and government) I can attest to the fact that certification number ranges change from time to time. Maybe they switched software?
Also, think about SSN's. I grew up new the Austin, TX area. I think my SSN was request from an office in San Marcos. People I graduated with that born around the same month that got theirs from Austin are in a different range than the ones that got theirs from San Marcos.
But that does make for an interesting find. Hell, it's from the same hospital and supposed to be a few days apart. Maybe there were some complications in filing for the bc hence the later number? Something tells me though, if he did spend as much money as Rick proposes, they would have thought of that. He had enough time to fake a bc. Hell, illegal immigrants have been faking them for quite some time. A guy with unlimited resources would be able to create a brand new retro-active bc lol.
Changing number ranges within the span of the same week seems a little odd. I could see in a year or even a quarter but not in the middle of a week.
I did hear something on Savage that one might think addresses the issue with certificate numbers. He mentioned that the disparity between Obama's birth date and the date it was processed by the registrar that there may have been a couple day delay in Obama's parents naming him. This would have meant a delay in the document being processed by the regstrar causing it to be processed after the twins despite their being born after him. But, looking at the dates, that doesn't jive. His was still processed on the 8th while the twins were on the 11th yet Obama's number is still higher.
Could they be processing numbers backwards? Perhaps but that seems just as odd as changing ranges mid week.
Knowing the type of person Obama is I just get this gut feeling that there is some sleight of hand to watch for.
April 28th, 2011, 03:14
Backstop
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Ruck
He mentioned that the disparity between Obama's birth date and the date it was processed by the registrar that there may have been a couple day delay...
Yeah - more like about 50 years.
:D
April 28th, 2011, 04:39
Ryan Ruck
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
LOL!
In thinking about the form numbering issue, I thought of one possibility...
I suppose it could be possible that these forms are pre-numbered at the time of printing. They are then handed out in groups to different registrars (assuming there is more than one). It would then be possible that one registrar could have a form numbered earlier than Obama's yet processed later.
April 28th, 2011, 13:10
American Patriot
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda
I officially challenge you (and you WILL LOSE) to back that up with facts. You have none. It's pure witless vitriol. Sadly enough, you are better than this. Disagreeing with your emotion IS NOT unpatriotic, and is NOT bringing America to it's knees. People flying off the handle and making pointless and un-factual accusations however, is.
Challenge me on what?
I never stated anything about patriotism, Zen. You are attempting to redirect the conversation anyway.
My "Emotion" about this is pretty much running through the population of the US on this.
It comes down to something very, very simple. Show an actual "certified" copy of your real birth certificate.
Let me explain that since you're pretending to be too dense to get what I am saying here.
The certificate Obama showed was probably a copy of a real one. Looking over it yesterday with a couple of guys who are experts on forgery stuff - they found some interesting things. I can't say more about that, BUT Vector was on to it with his post about Adobe. I'll leave you to work that part out for now.
Now... "certified copy". My wife had a "short form" certificate that was even stamped by the state. It was insufficient to get her passport. My photocopies of my certificate (and yours, Ryans, and everyone else's) are INSUFFICIENT to obtain a passport or a drivers license.
Here's my gripe with this. The copy he showed has no "raised seal" (which is a state issued notary seal). With out it, the piece of paper is a piece of paper and not worth the paper it's written on.
It has to have that seal.
The copy we were shown doesn't have it. It COULD be a fake and it would not be accepted from anyone else as evidence that they were born in Hawaii. They could not use it for a DL or a passport.
Quote:
Back to the task at hand. There is no current, solid evidence that the bc he presented was forged or fake. Like 9/11, the crackpot evidence is interesting to say the least. But it's not by far PROOF that it's a fake. By all means, if someone finds it's a fake, let's see the proof. THAT'S what I've been asking for. Somehow my desire to focus on facts and not emotion has got some people riled.
Actually, there is sufficient computer evidence that I saw one hour after it was released to convince me that it wasn't real. I work in security, I work with all sorts of people and they take their jobs seriously and do them well. They would use the same evidence in court to convict someone of forging government documents.... I'd say that's good enough for me.
Will they pursue it? Likely not at risk of their jobs.
Quote:
I'm going to re-voice this again before Rick blows a gasket (un-neccessarily). If the bc is a fake (there IS NO CURRENT EVIDENCE TO FACTUALLY AND CONCLUSIVELY SUPPORT THIS), by all means, something drastic needs to happen. I don't agree with certain avenues Obama has chosen for our country. There are certain things I don't trust about him, period. There are and were things i don't trust about Bush Jr and Bush Sr either. But facts are facts, and emotion distorts how those facts are digested.
Read the cursory stuff that Vector posted about Adobe. Just start there. That IS current evidence that does factually support it, not conclusively though.
When you get lied to, over and over, you're going to get mad too. Eventually, you're going to realize just how much you've been lied too.
By the way my "anger" is much less than that of those "Truthers" who went after Bush. Much less. So get off your fucking high horse.
Quote:
Ryan,
Having worked in the software industry (both private and government) I can attest to the fact that certification number ranges change from time to time. Maybe they switched software?
I agree with this. But certification numbers don't change drastically. There is a logical explanation though. The certs were pre-numbered and they were taken out of sequence. Easy to do, and highly probable.
Quote:
Also, think about SSN's. I grew up new the Austin, TX area. I think my SSN was request from an office in San Marcos. People I graduated with that born around the same month that got theirs from Austin are in a different range than the ones that got theirs from San Marcos.
Same here. The Social Security Administration is HUGE though and issues thousands of new numbers every day. In 1961 Hawai'i's records sections were small, and there were an average of 12-13 people born per year. There's no reason to believe that numbers were issued out of sequence due to an over abundance of people being born.
Quote:
But that does make for an interesting find. Hell, it's from the same hospital and supposed to be a few days apart. Maybe there were some complications in filing for the bc hence the later number? Something tells me though, if he did spend as much money as Rick proposes, they would have thought of that. He had enough time to fake a bc. Hell, illegal immigrants have been faking them for quite some time. A guy with unlimited resources would be able to create a brand new retro-active bc lol.
Most hospitals have a series of certificates they use and therefore that can explain the out of sequence numbers.
But, nothing can explain the artifacts you can dig up on the document.... except fraud and forgery.
April 28th, 2011, 14:49
American Patriot
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Sunday, July 20, 2008
ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FINAL REPORT ON OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE FORGERY CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN
Techdude delivers a final report that exceeds my wildest expectations. It is irrefutable, empirical evidence - Obama's birth certificate is a forgery. Why? Why a COLB (certificate of live birth) forgery? That is the question.
My deepest thanks and appreciation for Techdude's unwavering commitment to the truth despite the threats and harassment, the slashed tires and the dead animal on his porch.
Insofar as "techdude's" credentials, he is an active member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, American College of Forensic Examiners, The International Society of Forensic Computer Examiners, International Information Systems Forensics Association - the list goes on.
He also a board certified as a forensic computer examiner, a certificated legal investigator, and a licensed private investigator. He has been performing computer based forensic investigations since 1993 (although back then it did not even have a formal name yet) and he has performed countless investigations since then.
Here is his analysis:
Obama’s Birth Certificate – CHANGE you can believe in.
I have decided to leave out the low level technicalities and the how-to section of this report due to a lack of time and more importantly I want to get the facts out as quickly as possible. As some of you may or may not know some asshat decided to track me down and vandalize my car and hang a dead mutilated rabbit from my front door in a lame attempt to intimidate me from proceeding with releasing any details of my analysis. They did succeed in delaying the report by a few days but instead of deterring me they just really pissed me off. To their credit, if I had not taken a few days off from the analysis I would have missed the most damning piece of evidence – the remnants of the previous security border. So to the demented retard who slaughtered an animal to make a point – f*ck you and thank you. And because of the amazing number of violent psychopaths who seem to be drawn to this issue, I am not going to use or supply any details that can be used to identify the owners of the COLBS used in the analysis except for those which have already been publicly disclosed. If the owners want to come forward on their own that is entirely their decision. Now let’s get to the summarized report.
In questioned document analysis there are several methods for detecting forgeries – the most basic of which is to conduct a side by side evaluation of known good samples to compare against the questioned one and to use an alternate light source to highlight the changes in the color and density of the inks and paper. In the case at hand there are no questioned physical documents to examine so I used the same basic techniques modified for the digital age for use in computer forensic analysis.
The following analysis was conducted using various Hawaiian COLBS issued over a multi-year time frame ranging from 2001 through 2008 but this report will focus only on the results from the March 2007 through June 2008 certificates for accurately comparing against the KOS image purportedly printed by the Health Department of Hawaii in June 2007. I am only interested in comparing apples to apples as they say but I will touch on some of the other years for a brief comparative and observational analysis.
Since the image presented is a graphical image and not a physical certificate I made the concerted effort to track down known good certificates and certificates images to use for the analysis. Thanks to several individuals I managed to collect and review multiple images of certificates issued between 2001 through 2003 all of which bore an identical layout to the previous Decosta image which was issued during the same time frame. Several more certificate images and physical certificates were also sent to me of certificates issued between 2006 through 2008 directly by their respective owners. All of the 2006 through 2008 certificates bore an identical layout to one another. Several copies of the images were created to allow digital modifications to be made without altering the original images. MD5 and SHA1 signatures were generated for each of the images and their duplicates. The signatures of the duplicates matched against their originals and the original images were then moved to a separate protected directory on the server.
By separating the certificate issue dates into groups the pre-2006 certificates show a clearly different security border design than the more recent 2006 through 2008 design. There were no other visually detectible modifications to the layout of the certificates between all time frames aside from the additional change from the DATE ACCPETED to DATE FILED headings.
Image 1. 2001 – 2008 border patterns
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a.../19/image1.jpg
All known good certificate images from all time frames examined shared an apparent identical layout and font. Each of the available un-cropped full certificate images, from all time frames, showed the security borders to be almost perfectly centered from left to right within the lower 2/3 rd portion of the 8 ½ x 11 inch page with all deviations off center being within 15 pixels. Measurements were taken from the top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right, center top, and center bottom of each images security border to the edges of the visible paper which appeared as hard edges with the top cover of the scanners creating whitespace.
The embossed seals and ink stamps in all of the pre-2006 images are clearly visible in the scans however none of the post-2006 seals or ink stamps are visible without extensive manipulation to the digital images. Even when scanning the physical post-2006 certificate in my possession using multiple resolutions and using multiple scanners I was also unable to produce an image which would allow the seal to show though the image. The ink stamps on the rear side were also not visible in the front side scans without digital modifications to the scanned images. My scans of the physical certificate also produced the same results using multiple resolutions and using multiple scanners.
The post-2006 COLBs were then compared against one another for a direct 1:1 comparison. Using copies of the images I digitally enhanced and modified the scans by removing only the hatch pattern background and then removing the merged information fields leaving just the raw document templates and saving them as a series of digital overlay templates. When the 2006 overlay was placed on top of the 2007 image they matched from corner to corner with some minor variations on the minute angle of the images. The fonts were observed to be in the same locations and of the same size and kerning. The procedure was then used with the 2006 overlay on top of the 2008 image. Once again, they matched from corner to corner with some minor variations on the minute angle of the images. The fonts were observed to be in the same locations and of the same size, style, and kerning. The 2007 overlay was then applied on top of the 2008 image. The 2007 and 2008 also matched from corner to corner with some minor variations on the minute angle of the images. The fonts were observed to be in the same locations and of the same size, style, and kerning. Having verified that all of the examined post-2006 certificates were identical in form and substance I then focused the rest of the analysis using the 2007 and 2008 COLB KOS image to pin the document into the middle of the known time frame.
Image 3. Overlays
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a.../19/image3.jpg
The same measurement methodology was used against the full un-cropped KOS image and showed the security borders to be uncentered from left to right within the lower 2/3 rd portion of the 8 ½ x 11 inch page with a deviation from the other measurements off center being the average of 75 pixels – a 60 pixel greater deviation. Measurements were taken from the top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right, center top, and center bottom of each images security border to the edges of the visible paper which appeared as hard edges with the top cover of the scanners creating whitespace. The differences are also detectible visually without the use of digital enhancements.
The previously created overlays were placed on top of the image. When the 2007 overlay was placed on top of the image they did not immediately line up. After being matched from security border corner to security border corner with some minor variations on the minute angle of the images the security border pattern obviously did not match in pattern or in color. The fonts were observed to not be in the same locations and they also did not share same kerning. The procedure was then used with the 2008 overlay on top of the KOS image. Once again when the 2008 overlay was placed on top of the image they did not immediately line up. After being matched from corner to corner like the 2007 overlay again with some minor variations on the minute angle of the images the security border pattern obviously did not match in pattern or in color. The fonts were observed to not be in the same locations on the page and they also did not share same kerning.
Image 5. with 2007 and 2008 overlays
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a.../19/image5.jpg
A direct relative comparison using unmodified copies of the original images were made in regards to the security border pattern and color. Several distinctions were noted from the 2007 / 2008 certificate security border versus the security border used in the KOS image.
Direct relative measurements using unmodified copies of the original images were made in regards to the font size and kerning. Several letters were distinctly different in width and kerning from the 2007 / 2008 certificate font versus the font used in the KOS image such as O, H, N, R, and C.
The metadata and EXIF information was then extracted from the 2007, 2008, and the two images. The metadata extracted from the JPG files consisted of the quantization tables used for compressing the image and the EXIF data if it was present.
The 2007 image’s rate of compression was calculated to an approximated 75% quality factor at 300 dpi with an image size of 2550 x 3300 pixels in a portrait orientation and contained no EXIF data.
The 2008 image’s rate of compression was calculated to an approximated 80% quality factor at 300 dpi with an image size of 2550 x 3300 pixels in a portrait orientation and also contained no EXIF data.
The un-cropped image’s rate of compression was calculated to an approximated 90% quality factor at 300 dpi with an image size of 2550 x 3300 pixels in a portrait orientation and also contained the following relevant EXIF data: [Software ] = Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh [DateTime ] = 2008: 06:12 08:42:36 [ColorSpace ] = 65535 [ExifImageWidth ] = 2550 [ExifImageHeight] = 3300 Raw Image Orientation = Portrait Photoshop Save As Quality = [8] Photoshop Save Format = [Progressive]
The cropped image’s rate of compression was calculated to an approximated 50% quality factor at 300 dpi with an image size of 2427 x 2369 pixels in a landscape orientation and also contained the following relevant EXIF data: [Software ] = Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh [DateTime ] = 2008: 06:12 08:42:36 [ColorSpace ] = 65535 [ExifImageWidth ] = 2427 [ExifImageHeight] = 2369 Raw Image Orientation = Landscape
The 2007, 2008, and the two KOS images were then analyzed by creating a heat map showing where each pixel changes as jpeg quality decreases from 100 to 0. A change was considered relevant once the sum of the changes to the red, green, and blue values exceeded 10%. The heat map created from the 2007 and 2008 images showed the fonts, seal image, and security border are all identical consistent values. To eliminate any subjective presumptions and to increase the number of comparative tests the same analysis was then conducted on the 2006 and prior certificate images which all found the fonts, seal images, and security borders to also be saved with identical consistent values. The same analysis on the KOS images showed the security border having a substantially different RGB quality value than the fonts and the seal image.
Image 11. Detailed images of RGB value heat maps http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...19/image11.jpg
The 2007, 2008, and the two KOS images were also analyzed for jpeg compression variations by creating a heat map showing where the difference for a particular compression level is indicated. A change was considered relevant once the sum of the changes to the error level values exceeded 10% of the previously calculated compression error rates. The heat map created from the 2007 and 2008 images showed the fonts, seal image, and security border are all identical consistent values. To eliminate any subjective presumptions and to increase the number of comparative tests the same analysis was then conducted on the 2006 and prior certificate images which all found the fonts, seal images, and security borders to also be compressed with identical consistent values. The same analysis on the KOS image indicated that the security border has a different error value than the fonts and the seal image.
Image 13. Detailed images of error level analysis heat map
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...19/image13.jpg
The image contains numerous visible artifacts located at various points throughout the image. These artifacts are not found on any other known good image from any examined time frame. I began creating a pixel level map of these errors by using a copy of the full un-cropped version and simply highlighting the areas by drawing a pixel wide line to the left and to the right of each visible flaw. The left side of the image towards the inside edge of the security border contained stray vertical lines that did not match up to any of the jpeg compression artifacts so they were highlighted. The right side of the image contained visual pixel level inconsistencies in the background hatch pattern. The right side pattern is visually consistent with the artifacts left after digitally erasing an area from an image and attempting to rebuild the background.
Image 14. Some random flaws highlighted
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...19/image14.jpg
By connecting the points together the original placement of what appears to be part of the original security border becomes apparent. The placement of the lines matches the expected location of a good security border based on the known placement from the known good certificates. The width and spacing of the highlighted areas also match a 1:1 scale overlay from a section of a known good security border.
Image 15. Connected lines
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...19/image15.jpg
A close examination of the security border itself reveals several repeating inconsistencies. Among them is a “weak line” which repeats once after every second bold line and a slightly downward curving end point where a straight line should end. This pattern continues around the entire perimeter of the security border. Upon very close inspection portions of the security border also repeat every 240 pixels. By mapping this repeating pattern it becomes apparent that the pattern is laid out as a 240 x 240 pixel square that can be accurately extrapolated to the next position by simply counting 240 pixels. This type of tiling effect is commonly seen when an image has been modified by filling an area using an image editing application’s tile or pattern fill function.
Image 16. Mapped border pattern
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...19/image16.jpg
During the course of my analysis several calls were made to various departments in the Hawaiian State Government in an attempt to better understand the process and procedures used to create, print, and distribute copies of the COLB form. While I was brushed off or hung up upon by almost all of the people I contacted I did manage to talk with a computer technician who was familiar with the computers and printers used by the Department of Health and the clerk’s offices. He was unwilling to give any specific details but did provide enough information to work with. The COLB certificates are printed directly in the clerk’s office at the time they are requested. The system uses a standard laser printer and the border is printed at the same time as the text and other images on top of preprinted security paper. He stated the border is a vector image and would appear crisp and defined. When asked if a COLB can be printed off center he said it was not possible and any misfeed would simply jam in the printer. When asked if he had seen the images on-line he replied that he had – and that there is “no way” they had printed something that looked like that which further backed up my conclusions. Now let’s start to put the pieces of the puzzle together. The KOS image security border pattern does not match any known specimen from any known year. It does not match the pre-2006 nor does it match the post-2006 certificate patterns. The placement of the text in all of the pre-2006 and post-2006 certificates are almost identical pixel location matches while the image’s text placement does not match any known specimen from any known year. The shape and kerning of the fonts used in the 2006 through 2008 certificates are identical while the shape and kerning of the fonts used in the image does not match any known specimen. The KOS image shows clear signs of tampering such as the mismatch in RGB and error levels, visible indications of the previous location of the erased security border, easily detectable patterns of repeating flaws around the new security border, EXIF data that says the image was last saved with Photoshop CS3 for Macintosh, and finally a technician from Hawaii who confirms it just looks wrong.
There are two obvious scenarios used to create the image that can be ascertained from evidence. Either a real COLB was scanned into Photoshop and digitally edited or a real COLB was first scanned to obtain the graphic layout then blanked by soaking the document in solvent to remove the toner. After rescanning the blank page to a separate image the graphics from the previously obtained scan could then be easily applied to the blank scan after some editing and rebuilding. It would also explain why date stamp bleeds through the paper and the various bits of toner located around the image as well as the remnants of the previous location of a security border.
So as I have been saying repeatedly since I first compared the KOS images to the Decosta image using the same tests and measurements – the image is a horrible forgery.
Previously at Atlas: FORENSIC EXPERT: "the [birth] certificate is still a horrible forgery" Mystery, Clarification and Obfuscation of Obama's Birth Certificate Forgery Atlas Tech Expert Declares Obama Birth Certificate... Who died and made him the final word on Obama's ... The "Missing" Obama Birth Certificate Seal 6/29/08 SUCH A LIAR: OBAMA'S FAKE BIRTH CERTIFICATE 6/26/08 RELEASE OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE! 6/10/08
****Must Cite Pamela Geller and link back to Atlas ****(play nice and honest).
UPDATE: Techdude added this in the comment section:
..some folks asked for it...so here are MORE screen shots. I uploaded a few from the 2001 and 2003 COLB tests and the animated gifs showing the fun pulsating kerning differences ala LGF style.
I assume no one has been able to figure out why the "2007" KOS image manages to have the same placement as a 2003 COLB and not a 2006, 2007, or 2008 COLB yet huh? How about the remnants of the previous border location? Humm...and what about that mis-matching uncentered border with obvious 2 pixel white spaces between the top and bottom headers? Any more novel theories? Space aliens? Right wing conspiracies? Oh I know...it must have all been a "satire" of a real one.
2007 overlay on Decosta http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q...7ondecosta.jpg UPDATE: Israeli Insider weighs in here UPDATE:lol UPDATE: ACTION ALERT: ANY ATLAS READERS LIVE IN HAWAII? Reader Henry suggested we check the newspapers around the date of his birth in the vital statics area and see if they list his birth. Local libraries usually have old newspapers on microfiche. Depending on the newspaper, they might list the hopital as well as the time, date, parents. It won't tell us religion, color, Arab or African etc.... but it would verify his birthplace.
April 28th, 2011, 14:53
American Patriot
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
BORN IN THE USA? Hawaii official now swears: No Obama birth certificate
Former Hawaii elections clerk Tim Adams has now signed an affidavit swearing he was told by his supervisors in Hawaii that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Barack Obama Jr. in Hawaii and that neither Queens Medical Center nor Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu had any record of Obama having been born in their medical facilities.
Adams was employed at the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division from May 2008 through September 2008.
His position was senior elections clerk, overseeing a group of 50 to 60 employees responsible for verifying the identity of voters at the Absentee Ballot Office. It was in this capacity that Adams became aware of the search for Obama's birth-certificate records. See the movie Obama does not want you to see: Own the DVD that probes this unprecedented presidential-eligibility mystery!
"During the course of my employment," Adams swears in the affidavit (viewable in full as part 1 and part 2), "I became aware that many requests were being made to the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division, the Hawaii Office of Elections, and the Hawaii Department of Health from around the country to obtain a copy of then-Senator Barack Obama's long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate."
As he inquired about the birth certificate, he says, his supervisors told him that the records were not on file at the Hawaii Department of Health.
"Senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division told me on multiple occasions that no Hawaii long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Senator Obama in the Hawaii Department of Health," Adams' affidavit reads, "and there was no record that any such document had ever been on file in the Hawaii Department of Health or any other branch or department of the Hawaii government."
In a recorded telephone interview, Adams told WND that it was common knowledge among election officials where he worked that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate could be found at the Hawaii Department of Health.
"My supervisor came and told me, 'Of course, there's no birth certificate. What? You stupid,'" Adams said. "She usually spoke well, but in saying this she reverted to a Hawaiian dialect. I really didn't know how to respond to that. She said it and just walked off. She was quite a powerful lady."
Moreover, Adams was told that neither Queens Memorial Hospital nor Kapi'olani Medical Center had any records of Obama's birth at their medical facilities: "Senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division further told me on multiple occasions that Hawaii State government officials had made inquires about Sen. Obama's birth records to officials at Queens Medical Center and Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu and that neither hospital had any record of Senator Obama having been born there, even though Governor Abercrombie is now asserting and various Hawaii government officials continue to assert Barack Obama Jr. was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center on Aug. 4, 1961."
"We called the two hospitals in Honolulu: Queens and Kapi'olani," Adams stressed. "Neither of them have any records that Barack Obama was born there." (Story continues below)
In 2009, WND documented that Obama and his supporters had first claimed he was born at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, before the story changed to Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu.
After WND's report on the two conflicting hospitals, online news sites including the United Press International and Snopes.com scrubbed their websites to eliminate any reference to Queens Medical Center, substituting instead that Obama was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center without explaining the discrepancy or the correction.
In 2010, then-candidate for governor Neil Abercrombie was involved in an Obama birth controversy when he read a letter at a Kapi'olani Medical Center centennial dinner in Honolulu that supposedly was authored by President Obama, claiming Kapi'olani as his birth hospital. As WND reported, the letter read by Abercrombie and initially displayed on the Kapi'olani website turned out to be a computer-created likeness of a letter using HTML code, the building blocks of Internet websites, not an actual paper letter.
The White House has still not confirmed it wrote or sent the letter.
Moreover, Adams claims, the Hawaii government was engaged in a cover-up designed to tell the American public through the Obama-supporting mainstream media that Obama was born in Hawaii, even though no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama could be found on record in the Hawaii Department of Health.
In the affidavit Adams swears, "During the course of my employment, I came to understand that for political reasons, various officials in the government of Hawaii, including then-Governor Linda Lingle and various officials of the Hawaii Department of Health, including Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the director of the Hawaii Department of Health, were making representations that Senator Obama was born in Hawaii, even though no government official in Hawaii could find a long-form birth certificate for Senator Obama that had been issued by a Hawaii hospital at the time of his birth."
Adams further swears his supervisors told him to quit asking about Obama's birth records.
"During the course of my employment," Adams states in the affidavit, "I was told by senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division to stop inquiring about Senator Obama's Hawaii birth records, even though it was common knowledge among my fellow employees that no Hawaii long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Senator Obama."
"I can go get my long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate," Adams told WND. "And so I don't understand, this whole controversy should have been settled three or four years ago in about five minutes."
Nor does Adams feel the short-form Certification of Live Birth is authoritative documentation proving that Obama was born in Hawaii.
"My basic assumption is that he wasn't born there," Adams said. "Certifications of Live Birth were given to people who were born at home, or to people who were born overseas and whose parents brought them back to the islands. If his parents were U.S. citizens, or if one parent was a U.S. citizen, as was the case with Obama, the family would apply for a Hawaiian birth certificate when the parents came back from overseas. That's normally how you would have gotten on [a Certification of Live Birth] in the 1960s." WND has reported that in 1961, Obama's grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, could have made an in-person request at the Hawaii Department of Health for a registration of a Hawaii birth, even if the infant Barack Obama Jr. had been foreign-born.
In the past few days, Abercrombie has represented that there is a registration of Obama's birth in the state archives.
But the state registration of birth in 1961 theoretically could prove only that the grandparents had registered Obama's birth, even if Obama was not born in Hawaii.
Similarly, the newspaper announcements of baby Obama's birth do not prove he was born in Hawaii, since the newspaper announcements could have been triggered by the grandparents appearing in-person to register baby Obama as a Hawaiian birth, even if the baby was born elsewhere. WND has documented that the address reported in the birth announcements published in the Hawaii newspapers at the time, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, was the address where the grandparents lived. WND has also reported that Barack Obama Sr. maintained his own separate apartment in Honolulu at an 11th Avenue address, even after he was supposedly married to Ann Dunham, Barack Obama's mother, and that Ann Dunham left Hawaii within three weeks of the baby's birth to attend the University of Washington in Seattle.
Dunham did not return to Hawaii until after Barack Obama Sr. left Hawaii in June 1962 to attend graduate school at Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass.
It's possible the yet-undisclosed birth record in the state archives that Abercrombie has discovered may have come from the grandparents registering baby Obama's birth, an event that would have triggered both the newspaper birth announcements and availability of a Certification of Live Birth, even if no long-form record exists. WND has confirmed with Glen Takahashi, elections administrator for the city and county of Honolulu, that Adams was indeed working in their elections offices during the last presidential election.
"We hire temporary workers, because we're seasonal," Takahashi told WND.
Adams told WND he supported Hillary Clinton during the 2008 presidential election campaign.
He described himself as a libertarian who wants less government spending, fewer laws that restrict personal freedoms, more adherences to the Constitution and an end to foreign wars.
"I'm interested in individual liberty and upholding the Constitution," he said. "I want to get American troops out from foreign countries, and I want to see the federal budget balanced."
He said he might be inclined to support former-Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee or former-Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney in 2012 to run against President Obama, but he has not yet made up his mind.
"It depends on how fiscally conservative Huckabee and Romney turn out to be on economics," he said. "But from what I know right now, they would probably be better than Obama."
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
This is about the first release of an alleged certificate - that was later shown to have been created by the DailyKos people (and moveon.org)
Friday, August 8, 2008
Proof Barack Obama Birth Certificate is a Forgery.
This is an exclusive exposing the Barack Obama birth certificate as an absolute forgery and it has been in plain sight all along.
There can not be any Obamaniacs descending on sites claiming the experts are wrong, pixels are wrong or any other way of muddying the waters as the 1000 points of darkness have been carrying out their marching orders.
Below is a cut out of one part of the published Barack Obama birth certificate which exposes the fraud and forgery of this document. This is the certified certificate from Barack Obama himself.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0B...rgeryproof.jpgWhat has been staring everyone in the face is the effects of political correctness and no one has seen it. The beauty of this liberal political correctness is that the person who forged this document got caught in their own trap of affirmative action hyphenated Americans.
Look closely at Stanley Ann Dunham's race. Caucasian.
Now look closely at Barack Hussein Obama sr's race. It is listed as African.
That doesn't seem all that interesting and no one has noticed it until one looks that this is an official document filed in August 1961.
Most people on the internet and blogging have no sense of history nor in the use of words and it is this lack of sense which is going to bite whoever forged this document.
Up until 1968, the standard term for all Africans was "negroe". This fit with the absolute secular scientific teaching of the day which notes the world has 3 races in Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid.
It was not until the Black Revolution when negroe or negro became a foul description in the late 1960's and then "black" was demanded by this group to describe them.
It was not until the late 1970's when political correctness came into vogue that it ushered in by the 1980's the term "African" to describe all blacks.
Whoever forged this birth certificate was not utilizing the 1960's terminology which a black person would be listed as. They fell instead into a warped year 2000 politically correct description of "African".
This is absolutely telling as if you looked at birth records in Prussia centuries ago, those people would be termed Prussian, Bavarian etc... as Germany did not yet exist as a termonology for nation state. If someone was listed as German in 1700, it would be glaring forgery just like the Obama forgery stuns the eyes once one knows what they are looking at.
One could research the certificates in Hawaii for absolutes, but considering as has been warned in this blog that Hawaii is a Democratic state, has Democratic officials who have been hemming and hawing about this certificate and only upon precise questioning do they start backing down as it means their jobs and prison time if they certify a forgery as real and this is Democratic transplanted son Barack Obama carrying on this charade, could one ever get a clear answer from them unless one looked at numbers of birth certificates to precisely learn how Hawaii was labeling "blacks".
If this case it is African, then why is not Stanley Ann Dunham labeled correctly North American after her continent? She though is labeled correctly as caucasian as that is exactly as she is.
If one still today searches enough death certificates in the 50 United States, you will find listed on them the term NEGRO. Now that is over 40 years since 1961 in Barack Obama's birth and political correctness has not reached completely into the coroner's records.
That fact is scientific and if it still exists today as proof it certainly is the proof from before 1900 in America and past 1960 that all blacks were noted as "negroe" or "negro" on all public records from birth certificates, marriage licenses, passports, driver's licenses to death certificates.
Whoever forged the Barack Obama birth certificate got caught in Mr. Obama's own political correctness.
In 1961 America, blacks were negroes and not Africans no matter if they came from Africa or not.
If one cares to examine the Negroe Leagues in baseball where blacks were to "pass" as Cubans to the United Negroe College Fund to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, there was no African at all in any terminology.
One was negroe on legal documents and "colored" in common usage.
No pixels in this. No questioning borders and no questions about the researcher's expertise as negroe is American history and scientific fact just like whoever forged the Obama birth certificate got caught in political correctness in not being able to use a term they were trained to avoid.
That is a fact. This birth certificate is a fake.
April 28th, 2011, 15:05
American Patriot
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
President Obama’s Birth Certificate PDF has “Layers”
The PDF is composed of multiple images. That’s correct. Using a photo editor or PDF viewer of your choice, you can extract this image data, view it, hide it, etc. But these layers, as they’re being called, aren’t layers in the traditional photo-editing sense of the word. They are, quite literally, pieces of image data that have been positioned in a PDF container. They appear as text but also contain glyphs, dots, lines, boxes, squiggles, and random garbage. They’re not combined or merged in any way. Quite simply, they look like they were created programmatically, not by a human.
What’s plausible is that somewhere along the way — from the scanning device to the PDF-creation software, both of which can perform OCR (optical character recognition) — these partial/pseudo-text images were created and saved. What’s not plausible is that the government spent all this time manufacturing Obama’s birth certificate only to commit the laughably rookie mistake of exporting the layers from Photoshop, or whatever photo editing software they are meant to have used. It’s likely that whoever scanned the birth certificate in Hawaii forgot to turn off the OCR setting on the scanner. Let’s leave it at that.
April 28th, 2011, 15:19
American Patriot
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Ten suspicious things about Obama’s birth certificate
10. It’s headed “President Obama’s Birth Certificate”
9. The attending physician’s name is listed as “Dr. Demento”
8. The address given for Obama’s mother is actually that of Jack Lord’s house
7. It’s scratch-’n’-sniff
6. The street name, “Kalanianole,” is Hawaiian for “take this, combover boy!”
5. It’s printed on the back of an 8” X 10” of Tom Selleck
4. Curiously enough, both the doctor and local registrar were old poker buddies of Jack Ruby
3. His mother’s occupation is listed as “some kind of academic social-science bullsh*t”
2. It turns out that doctor died under mysterious circumstances last year at the age of 106
1. Obama’s father? Don Ho
April 28th, 2011, 15:23
Ryan Ruck
Re: Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Donaldson
BORN IN THE USA? Hawaii official now swears: No Obama birth certificate