You are exactly, 1000% right Peterle. We are a nation that is losing its national identity.
Nice! :D
By the way, some of us fly more than just the American flag too... ;)
http://www.transasianaxis.com/pics/IM001699.jpg
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You are exactly, 1000% right Peterle. We are a nation that is losing its national identity.
Nice! :D
By the way, some of us fly more than just the American flag too... ;)
http://www.transasianaxis.com/pics/IM001699.jpg
12% See Secession Attempt as Very Likely in Next 25 Years Or So
Some very interesting numbers despite Rasmussen downplaying the numbers. Almost 1/3 of people believe secession is a possibility! :eek:Quote:
June 22, 2010
As far as most Americans are concerned, the United States isn’t going away any time soon.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 28% of Adults believe it is at least somewhat likely that some states will try to leave the United States and form an independent country over the next 25 years or so. Sixty-four percent (64%) say a secession attempt is unlikely.
These figures include 12% who say it is Very Likely and 22% who say it is Not At All Likely.
Eighteen percent (18%) of Americans believe that individual states have the right to leave the United States and form an independent country. Sixty-three percent (63%) say states do not have that right and 19% are not sure. Those figures are little changed since February.
Twenty-three percent (23%) of all Americans think it’s at least somewhat likely that the United States will split up into regional groups of states over the next quarter-century or so. Only nine percent (9%) say it is Very Likely.
Despite all the Tea Party unhappiness in the country and the increasing partisanship in this midterm election year, only 10% of adults say it would be good for the United States to split up into regional groups of states. Seventy percent (70%) say that would be bad for the country. But, interestingly, another 20% aren’t sure.
Just 21% of voters nationwide believe the government today has the consent of the governed.
(Want a free daily e-mail update ? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
This nationwide survey of 1,000 Adults was conducted on June 18-19, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Among Republicans, however, 40% see a likelihood that some states will leave, compared to 15% of Democrats and 31% of adults not affiliated with either party. Nearly one-out-of-five Republicans (18%) say a breakup of the country is Very Likely.
Constitutional scholars still debate whether states have the right to secede from the United States under the U.S. Constitution. The most prominent example, of course, is the Civil War in which President Lincoln used military force to prevent the Southern states from seceding from the union
A year ago, 11% said they would vote for their state to secede from the United States, while 83% said they would vote for their state to stay in the union.
Eighteen percent (18%) of Texas voters would opt to leave, but 75% would vote to remain part of the United States.
Nationally, 22% of Republicans and 23% of adults not affiliated with either major party believe that states have the right to leave the United States. Only nine percent (9%) of Democrats agree.
But voters nationwide strongly believe that a state should have the right to opt out of federal programs it doesn’t like.
Seventy percent (70%) or more of voters have been angry about the policies of the federal government for months now, but most also feel that neither Democratic nor Republican leaders have a good understanding of what is needed today.
Sixty-two percent (62%) of all adults nationwide say most politicians want to grow the government with more power and money. By comparison, 58% say most voters want the government to have less power and money.
Fifty-one percent (51%) of voters nationwide believe the United States is the last best hope of mankind. Twenty-six percent (26%) disagree, and 24% are not sure.
But only 40% say America's best days are in the future. Slightly more (45%) feel the country's best days are behind us.
Thirty-two percent (32%) believe the United States will still be the most powerful nation in the world at the end of the 21st Century. Forty-five percent (45%) disagree.
Negative, Ghostrider, negative. The states are NOT states only because they are united. The states were STATES before the Federal Government was the Federal Government and the STATES FORMED the Federal Government.
States do NOT legally cease to exist because they secede but rather no longer fall under the Federal Government (and can be treated as hostile by the other States, which I find not only inconceivable given the circumstances, I also find it nearly impossible). The Feds would take it very, very badly and try to do something damned dangerous simply because they want to keep the states together.... which is a good thing, but doing something damned dangerous would be ignorant and stupid.
Will a state secede? I doubt it when it comes right down to it, UNLESS the Federal Government, and specifically the Office of the President becomes untenable.
I will not argue religion in a political forum, but will state emphatically that America IS the LAST, BEST HOPE of Mankind.Quote:
Also, I would agree that America CANNOT be the 'last and best hope of Mankind', because Jesus Christ is the FIRST, LAST, AND ONLY, HOPE OF MANKIND. Those who think otherwise are deluding themselves into thinking that America can save Humanity in the only meaningful way. America is a nation among nations and will someday go the way of all nations in history. She is blest only to the degree she is in conformity with Reality....
Jesus Christ isn't here. He isn't going to fight a war for us. He is a faith-based belief. America is real, here and now. Americans and our beliefs, morals and Constitution are the ONLY thing standing between Ameican citizens and the barbarian hordes of the Far East, China, North Korean, Mongols, Islamic fruitcakes and commies.
You feel free to pray for everyone around you, and even me and yourself, but stay the fuck out of my sights when the shooting starts, Padre.
Was a word play on your picture :)
Nor am I. As I stated, I don't usually argue religion at all, and never do so in politics.Quote:
Jesus Christ is here, but I'm not going to argue that here with you. And i'm not going to argue about the virtues of defending Civilization from the Barbarians within and without...For God's sake, i'm in agreement with you there-i'd be shooting at them too:).
I'll simply point out that the only religion that includes politics in religious teachings is Islam. And leave it at that.
You certainly have the right to be wrong. You'd be wrong. A state is a state, regardless of the notion of being connected with, or a part of the United States.Quote:
What I disagree with you is the issue of whether a state ceases to exist after it secedes from the Union, and I would cite the example of what happened when the state of West Virginia came into being, said state having been created when the old state of Virginia seceded-and that a new state 'Virginia' came into being when it's Senators and Congressmen were seated after the Civil War.
You see, each state has it's own Constitution. Each state was ALREADY a State BEFORE the United States became the United States (I cite the fact that they are all states beforehand and became United).
You make my case for me. Each state was a state. When the people of Virgina, divided by the war found it necessary, they seceeded from the state itself (forming yet another state, which became part of the United States, leaving Virgina as a state alone).
By leaving the United States (secession) simply means they no longer hold the US Constitution as the highest law of their land. The state Constitution becomes the highest state.
While the states were "united" they were not "The United States". Each was a state onto itself and had no reason to follow the rules of the other states.Quote:
This is not a new idea, having been expressed by Charles Sumner of Massachusetts during the Reconstruction period and in a somewhat milder form by Orestes Brownson. The states came in being before the Constitution (but were united before then too!), but cannot remain so if they leave the Constitution because THEY IN THEMSELVES cannot guarantee an republican STATE Constitution(s). This is the 'Achilles heel' of all Secession arguements, that secession or it's threat would somehow preserve republican goverment....
The fact that a state can have it's own laws should tell you something here.
I most wholeheartly agree with you, and I don't believe the US will "break up" anyway. I argue the point that should a state chose to do so, the only way to make it remain would be by the force of arms of the United States Federal Government - with which many other states MIGHT DISAGREE to the use of such power!Quote:
I have stated before that our common enemies would love to break up our Union and destroy this country...And thus they would love to revive neo-confederate feeling among some on the Right, stoking the fires of treason and sedition there as well as on the Left in a perfect dialectical trap. Secession could happen and given history might even be likely, as well as a more anarchic general rebellion or Race war. America is not immune from the laws of History and is not likely to survive 1000 years or even another 200 years. This is fact and not sentiment talking.
I find it funny you said "neo-confederate among the Right"... when the real confederates were on the LEFT, the Democrats.
A Race War is vastly more likely than a state breaking off. Although I can see Arizona, Texas and even to an extent (not as great) Arizona doing so.
No one says we're immune, but we are certainly much less likely than any other second or third world country. Americans are, on the whole, a lot smarter, and more pragmatic than the rest of the world, and even our idiots on the left make us sound.
No. They are not. Simply put no one wants the country to break up. Regardless of the idealism you cite. They aren't "confederates" anyone. A Confederate is someone who believes in a group of states taking part in sessesion and follows such rules as that.
Those who think it is something to be considered do so only out of pure frustration, and I think we all know this.
There is nothing whatsoever "metaphysical" about the aspect of this country.Quote:
And as to the union/secession issue, perhaps I share with others a more metaphysical concept of America as a nation, which is somewhat at odds with my knowledge of history and Augustinian outlook on life in general. America will go the way of Rome, Persia, Egypt, etc...But it's important to me to hold that decline off a bit to save what can still be saved (and worth saving) for future generations.
We are what we are. What we are NOT is some vague notion of existence. This country exists solely because of people like me, you and the founding fathers who feel strongly that individual liberties trump those of either states rights or federal rights.
To believe anything differently is shameful. Many of our elected leaders don't get this yet.
The "Great Experiment" isn't any longer an experiement. It hasn't been for more than 200 years since we created and ratified the Constitution.Quote:
But "While a goverment's rule based on opinion and imagination is mild and acceptable and may last for some time, might and force last for ever..." Perhaps the 'Great Experiment' our founders promulgated is over.
You know what really bugs me about statements like this? And indeed several you've made here... they are stereotypes.
Larry the Cable Guy is NOT what most Americans are like. He is a stereotype. In fact there are a few types like him. But, you know I come from the Midwest originally. I was born in Detroit, but at heart I'm a Kentuckian. I'm a Daniel Boone in modern times. I can track animals, feed the family with a gun, or a bow and arrow or even a knife or throw stick alone. But I can also use technology, gps, cell phones, computers, amateur radio and direct an air strike.
I can lead a contingent of men to take an objective, change diapers and I'll challenge any many to do those things as well as myself - and when the time comes, I will fly a star ship if necessary.
The point is that people are individuals and the old Leftists remarks about "Joe Sixpack" simply do not hold true in this day and age.
Yes, there IS a certain "The South Shall Rise Again" mentality - but in truth it is a private joke amongst the southern boys I know. They believe that the South was ruined by Northern Carpetbaggers (not unlike Hillary Clinton would be considered today).
But, to me it is insulting to insinuate that there is a group of people who would love nothing better than to see America fall so the South could rise again.
No... the people that want to see America fall yell "Allah Ackbar" or "Rot v adu" (Russian for rot in hell... something I find hilarious since the Commies didn't believe in God to begin with) and North Korea, China and even Venezuala. THOSE people are a bigger threat to America than our own people.
In Latin the phrase "Vae Victis" comes to mind. It means merely "Woe unto the vanquished". To those in ancient times who fought wars it was normal to take the women as prisoners and murder the men and boy children. This was the way of the world for a long, long time.Quote:
And you say that the experiment is no longer an experiment, having been in place for over 200 years. Yes, but look where we are at now...We have certain ideas as Americans that we generally share in common, but when it comes to fighting for it any longer? I'm saying that perhaps 'Might' (the ability to impose one's ideas/theories on the world around you by force-which is the ultimate reality in the World) will trump 'Opinion and Imagination' (the ability to persuade others to accept one's ideas/theories in the world, regardless of their reality) anytime.
America doesn't do that. We simply do NOT. America doesn't believe in "Might makes Right".
Unless you look at it from this point of view... we know what is right and wrong and when we, or someone else is wronged, we should help to make it right.
Our MIGHT can enforce that atmosphere in the world, and indeed does. It doesn't stop the little guys, the petty terrorists. They die in their own time and way, and sometimes take good people with them.
What I believe you're trying to say here is that perhaps Might WILL make Right?
Even so, remember this. America is a country made up of many people and there are at least twice as many opinions are there are American individuals.
Take for example 9-11. Americans, both sides of the political spectrum, came together, pulled together and decided in one, loud voice that we wanted revenge, and we should go after and STOP those who perpetrated the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
America WILL do what is right, in SPITE of President Obama or any other person who takes that office and is arrogant enough to believe himself "in charge".
Certainly a President's position is to be "in charge", to be a leader, but also, most important the President must absolutely enforce the rules of the Constitution. And each and every person appointed by him and under him MUST DO THE SAME.
Without this simple rule, we have chaos. This is what took our Caesar. He made himself Dictator. He died for his affront to the Senate and the People of Rome, all Roman Citizens and ALL part of a larger Republic, just as we are.
President Obama wouldn't dare do such a thing. Of course the Senators wouldn't murder him but he certainly will be removed from the Office were he to do something like that.
It bothers me that people still use stereotypes to discount arguments, and facts.
Friday, July 9, 2010
So Much for Being a Sovereign Nation
http://americandaily.com/arrow-gold.gif National Sovereignty piece by Guest: Armand C. Hale
The sad state of affairs for the U.S. is now evident in our courts. This current administration has shown time and again its total disregard for the average American citizen’s wishes. This administration has no focus, no backbone, and no leadership.
I found this in an article, on Fox News:
…but as part of the complaint, the Obama administration warns the Arizona law could damage ties with Mexico and other countries and has already had foreign policy implications for U.S. diplomatic relations. The suit cites Mexican President Felipe Calderon’s May address to Congress where he blasted the Arizona immigration law and a travel alert Mexico’s Foreign Ministry issued in late April for Mexicans visiting Arizona. The Mexican government also played a role in getting the Department of Education to move a conference out of Arizona. S.B. 1070 has subjected the United States to direct criticism by other countries and international organizations and has resulted in a breakdown in certain planned bilateral and multilateral arrangements on issues such as border security and disaster management, the suit claims. S.B. 1070 has in these ways undermined several aspects of U.S. foreign policy related to immigration issues and other national concerns that are unrelated to immigration.
The case in point is the Attorney General’s lawsuit against Arizona’s Immigration Law. Since when does the Federal Government involve itself in a states’ right to protect its citizens in the absence of the government’s enforcement of federal law? In a time when decisive leadership is needed to secure our borders, the decision by committee decided to sue one of its own states. In essence, instead of protecting its citizens, this administration has taken the path to protect the criminal and give them a free pass. This is an outrage and insult to every immigrant who complied with our laws and legally became a U.S. Citizen.
Let us not use the words of racism and profiling; it’s a direct violation of our laws when someone decided to come here and set up residence by just walking across our borders. The only avenue this administration can see is the potential of more voters to keep them in power. In addition, the federal court has entertained the acceptance of the briefs filed by a foreign nation against the Arizona law. This impinges the sovereignty of this nation; impinges the sovereignty of one of our states and yet…this administration does nothing but file a lawsuit.
The people of Arizona have made the decision to protect themselves against those who would commit a crime against our laws and commit crimes against the people of Arizona. Already, the sheriff of one county is receiving death threats for supporting this law; cartels have set up bases on our lands to monitor law enforcement moves; parts of a national forest is off limits to our own citizens because of the danger presented by the cartels, human smugglers and the illegal’s coming thru there. And what has this administration done… NOTHING!
Gov. Jan Brewer, stand fast for your constituents and the law. It is clear this administration would rather use the lawyers’ path of litigation to try and wear you down. You will get no leadership from this administration in your fight to uphold which this administration is failing to do. You should as governor activate your states’ National Guard and literally drive out the invaders. The definition of invaders is: entering a country by military force.
To enter a country by force with or as an army, especially in order to conquer it. Other states will follow with this vacuum of national focus.
Is this what the U.S. has to look forward to? Is it the complete erosion of our national sovereignty in favor of a world government? Can we continue to afford these types of absurd committee decisions leading us into a state of total government control? Is this the hope and change promised? If it is…keep it! The only change we need is at the top and to clean out those others who will trample on the average citizen, voting to make things right in favor of the politically advantageous to keep themselves in power. But act fast before the rest of the farm is given up in favor of the new world order.
Armand C. Hale
I've thought long and hard on this.
Yes, I will agree that many somehow don't "wish to be free" any more. Except for one, vital problem. *I* DO.
I am NOT willing to surrender, I am not willing to give the Left what it wants - a tacit acceptance that they have won. As long as I live and breathe, as long as I can still swing a club or shoot a weapon, America BELONGS TO ME.
America does NOT belong to those who say they want Socialism or Marxism. They can point their finger at me all they want and say "What do you mean YOUR country, it's my country too!"
Well, no, I beg to differ. In fact, wait, I don't BEG, I DO DIFFER.
America belongs to the Free. America belongs to Capitalism. America belongs to those of us who have fought for it, and for those freedoms we DO enjoy and by GOD I will NOT surrender my country to these people.
I guess I see too many people, from the friends I mentioned in the Socialism thread, to even you guys here on this site quietly giving in, giving up and wanting it to "just all go away" without a fight.
No, my friends....
NOW is the time to fight back. Before the bullets fly, before it does become a civil war, before those who are neighbors but are politically on the other side of the fence arm themselves to take away what we have.
I'm sick of people giving up.
Shit or get off the pot people.
Michael, no offense to religion in this case, but honestly, people who think Jesus will save them from some thing here on Earth have been disappointed over and over.
If He comes at all, it will not be to save individuals from some notion that the world is ending and evil is here.
IF HE comes at all...
I don't believe any supreme being has any interest at ALL in saving our asses from our own problems, the same problems we created.
Nope. Not going to happen.
Exactly!