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Thread: Obama Administration NSA Spying on Americans

  1. #181
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    I find this interesting.

    Today, K.T. McFarland pretty much stated clearly she thought this guy was a criminal, before anything else. (Snowden that is).

    Now, I remember K.T. from the old days. She's a VERY smart lady and a Reaganite like me. So, I'm going to weigh her opinion more highly than others.

    Judge Andrew Napalitano seems to think that the Government hasn't a leg to stand on about "espionage"....hmmmm

    the Judge SEEMS to be siding with Snowden.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    The Edward Snowden Drama Has Reached Peak Action Movie

    Tweet






    By Matt Berman
    Updated: June 24, 2013 | 7:32 a.m.
    June 23, 2013 | 9:56 a.m.


    A bus drives past a banner supporting Edward Snowden at Central, Hong Kong's business district, Tuesday, June 18, 2013. (AP Photo/Kin Cheung)


    If the Edward Snowden saga is a Michael Bay movie that we are all just living in, on Sunday morning it would have passed over the believability abyss. That's when Snowden, the NSA leaker turned America's Most Wanted poster-boy, took a plane out of Hong Kong, en route to Russia, where he landed around 9:15 a.m. EST. Snowden is reportedly headed from there to Havana, Cuba on Monday. Originally, it looked like he was going from there to Caracas, Venezuela. Now, it appears he's off to Ecuador.


    Oh, and on the run with Edward Snowden? Diplomatic and legal escorts from WikiLeaks, according to a press release from the organization. WikiLeaks released a profile of Sarah Harrison on Sunday morning, a U.K. citizen who the organization says is acting as Snowden's escort. WikiLeaks, being WikiLeaks, is live-tweeting the adventure:
    Edward #Snowden has just now landed in Moscow on flight SU 213 http://t.co/Lyvcno0upohttp://t.co/kYJCOQNEhh http://t.co/svGMShQLsn
    — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) June 23, 2013

    WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange is getting himself back in headlines with his moves to help Snowden. Assange has been living in the Ecudarian embassy in London for over a year, avoiding extradition to Sweden.


    The first seeming plot-hole in today's story: how did Snowden get out of Hong Kong? Especially with all of the pressure that the Obama administration was putting on the government to extradite hm? Hong Kong's governmnet has plugged that hole with a statement:
    The U.S. Government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR Government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the U.S. Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR Government has requested the U.S. Government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the U.S. Government's request can meet the relevant legal conditions. As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.
    If that part of the statement doesn't make this point obvious, the government of Hong Kong is not too pleased with the United States:
    Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the U.S. Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by U.S. government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong.
    So much for extradition treaties.
    And just how many more U.S. relationships with how many more countries will Snowden muck up?


    Sen. Chuck Schumer, on CNN's State of the Union Sunday morning, told host Candy Crowley that he is "very disappointed" with how Hong Kong handled Snowden, and believed that "the hand of Beijing was involved here." He had harsher words for Russia, saying there'd be "serious consequences" for the U.S.-Russia relationship, and that "allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways." The senator also made the assumption that Vladimir Putin approved Snowden's plane landing in Russia, and called the president "infuriating."


    Sen. Rand Paul, also on State of the Union, had kinder words for Snowden: "I think it's still going to be an open question how this young man's judged." The Kentucky senator and 2016-maybe said that history would look back at the records of both Snowden and National Intelligence Director James Clapper, saying that "Mr. Clapper lied to Congress, in defiance of the law, in the name of security," and that "Mr. Snowden told the truth in the name of privacy."


    Paul, however, wasn't too thrilled with what Snowden looked to be doing on Sunday morning:
    If he cozies up to either the Russian government, the Chinese government, or any of these governments that are perceived still as enemies of ours, I think that that'll be a real problem for him in history.
    While the U.S. doesn't actually consider Russia or China to be enemy nations, you can get a pretty decent sense of where this drama could be heading in the coming days.
    (Update Monday 7:30 AM): For the latest updates in Monday's extension of the Snowden saga, check out National Journal's Brian Fung here. Starting with: was the flight to Cuba all a ruse?



    (Monday 6:45 AM): The "Where Is Edward Snowden and Where Is He Going" story lives for another day. Here's the latest aboard the airplane that Snowden was reportedly supposed to be taking to Cuba this morning:
    Standing next to Edward Snowden's seat on flight to Cuba. He ain't here. pic.twitter.com/NVRH3Pzved
    — max seddon (@maxseddon) June 24, 2013

    (Sunday 3:10): U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki issued a statement Sunday afternoon basically confirming reports that the U.S. did revoke Snowden's passport and saying that the U.S. would really prefer it if Snowden was not allowed to get on just any plane out of Russia:
    As is routine and consistent with U.S. regulations, persons with felony arrest warrants are subject to having their passport revoked. Such a revocation does not affect citizenship status. Persons wanted on felony charges, such as Mr. Snowden, should not be allowed to proceed in any further international travel, other than is necessary to return him to the United States. Because of the Privacy Act, we cannot comment on Mr. Snowden's passport specifically.
    (1:58): Sen. John McCain took to Twitter Sunday afternoon to pile on China and Russia:
    Isn't it about time for the US to take a more realistic approach to #Russia & #China?
    — John McCain (@SenJohnMcCain) June 23, 2013

    (1:25): WikiLeaks has released an updated press release saying that Snowden "is bound for the Republic of Ecuador via a safe route for the purposes of asylum, and is being escorted by diplomats and legal advisors from WikiLeaks."
    Why Ecuador? Another point of some confusion, even with the country's support for Assange. Just last week, Human Rights Watch issued a statement bashing Ecuador's new Communications Law, saying that it "seriously undermines free speech" and "will limit the free expression of journalists and media outlets."
    For more on the human rights records of the countries that Snowden is looking at, see this new piece by National Journal's Jill Lawrence.
    (12:48): AFP and others are now reporting that Snowden has applied for asylum in Ecuador:
    #BREAKING: Snowden has requested asylum in Ecuador: foreign minister
    — Agence France-Presse (@AFP) June 23, 2013

    Ecuador's foreign minister confirms, in Spanish and English:
    El gobierno del Ecuador ha recibido solicitud de asilo de parte de Edward #Snowden.
    — Ricardo Patiņo Aroca (@RicardoPatinoEC) June 23, 2013

    The Government of Ecuador has received an asylum request from Edward J. #Snowden
    — Ricardo Patiņo Aroca (@RicardoPatinoEC) June 23, 2013

    (12:20): More intrigue!
    CIA director Brennan was in Moscow Wed and Thurs on an unannounced visit, Ifax reports. http://t.co/M72rFGDo3D
    — Ellen Barry (@EllenBarryNYT) June 21, 2013

    (12:05): ABC News is reporting on what could be a huge, logic-leap plot hole in the drama that is Snowden:
    Snowden's U.S. passport revoked yesterday & Hong Kong authorities notified -- but may have come too late to stop Snowden leaving HK
    — Jon Williams (@WilliamsJon) June 23, 2013

    #Russia notified by U.S. embassy in Moscow that Snowden no longer has a valid U.S. passport & that U.S. "desires to have him deported" #NSA
    — Jon Williams (@WilliamsJon) June 23, 2013

    So, how exactly did Snowden get out of Hong Kong without a valid passport? As ABC's Jon Williams also notes, the lack of a passport shouldn't be a problem for Snowden getting out of Russia, as it sounds like his plan is to stay at the airport and not technically cross through another border.
    This is also on top of new speculation that Snowden may not be going to Venezuela after all:
    The Ecuadorean Ambassador is still here at Moscow airport. It looks like Ecuador is Edward Snowden's destination pic.twitter.com/ZUfwND94nJ
    — Daniel Sandford (@BBCDanielS) June 23, 2013

    Ecuador is, of course, the country that has been giving political asylum to Julian Assange for the last year, and apparently plans to continue to do so. The Guardian, meanwhile, is reporting some confusion from Ecuador's ambassador in Moscow. Confusion: definitely the word of the day.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Breaking news... Apparently Wikileaks "lawyers(?)" are escorting Snowden. Julian Assange is apparently about to reveal some information about Snowden's whereabouts.

    This is like a stupid movie, as the article above says.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Kerry warns China, Russia of consequences on Snowden


    (AFP) – 2 hours ago



    NEW DELHI — US Secretary of State John Kerry warned Monday of consequences to ties with Moscow and Beijing over an intelligence leaker's flight from Hong Kong to Russia, saying it was "deeply troubling" if requests for his extradition had been ignored.


    Speaking on a visit to New Delhi, Kerry insisted that Edward Snowden, who is the target of an American arrest warrant after he leaked details of massive US cyber-espionage programmes, had betrayed his country and should have to face the consequences.


    Snowden is expected to fly out of Moscow later Monday to seek asylum in Ecuador after being allowed to board a flight in the Chinese territory of Hong Kong on Sunday which took him to the Russian capital.


    Asked about the diplomatic consequences of Snowden's departure, Kerry said it would be "very disappointing" if it were found that he was "wilfully allowed to board an aircraft".


    "As a result there would be without any question some effect and impact on the relationship and consequences," said the top US diplomat.


    "With respect to the China, Russia relationship and where this puts us, it would be deeply troubling obviously if they have adequate notice and, not withstanding that, they made a decision wilfully to ignore that and not live by the standards of the law," Kerry added.


    After issuing the arrest warrant against Snowden, the US State Department revoked the former intelligence operative's passport and asked other countries to prevent him from travelling.


    He was however still able to board an Aeroflot flight which landed in Moscow on Sunday.


    Questioned in particular about Russia's role in Snowden's flight, Kerry said: "I would urge them (Russia) to live by the standards of the law because that's in the interests of everybody.


    "In the last two years we have transferred seven prisoners to Russia that they wanted so I think reciprocity and the enforcement of the law is pretty important."
    Kerry also defended the decision to seek Snowden's arrest, saying he had betrayed his country.


    "He is an indicted individual, indicted on three felony counts," said Kerry.


    "Evidently he places himself above the law having betrayed his country with respect of the violation of his oath and I think there are very serious implications in that."
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)


    "...and then I grabbed her chest like this...."
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Oh, goodie... lol. Kirsten Powers is saying Snowden has done NOTHING to harm the United States.

    (I haven't actually SEEN anything he released other than a slide, and I don't know enough about it to say it was classified I guess!)

    There is the issue with releasing information (classified or not) that depicts our METHODS that give an enemy the ability to discern those methods. We obviously don't want an enemy to know how we collect data because then they can take steps to mitigate this.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Here we go....

    Assange is in Ecuador.

    He is saying that Snowden "is safe".

    It is believed he is still in Moscow.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Assange is not in Ecuador. He is in the Ecuador Embassy in London.

    Frankly, if we piss off these other countries, can you blame them if they cite technicalities as to why they won't hold someone?

    "oh, you want this guy? Well, lemme see here, oh, you didn't cross this T or dot this i, but then you already knew that since you're spying on us, go somewhere else and get him, we're done with you spying peckerheads"
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Ah... I guess they misreported that on the news then! LOL I THOUGHT he was still in London and was a bit surprised they said he was in Ecuador.... ok, thanks for correcting that.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    WikiLeaks: We Know Where Snowden Is, But We're Not Telling You

    —By Dana Liebelson
    | Mon Jun. 24, 2013 9:21 AM PDT


    David G. Mcintyre/ZUMA Press


    Former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who has been officially indicted by the United States under the Espionage Act, is en route to Ecuador, one of at least two countries in which he is seeking asylum, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said today on a call with reporters. Assange would not provide further details on Snowden's current whereabouts. The whistleblower arrived in Moscow on Sunday, fleeing Hong Kong after China urged his departure in order to avoid a messy extradition battle with the United States, according to Reuters. Snowden was scheduled to fly to Havana, Cuba early Monday morning, but he never boarded the plane.



    Assange blasted the Obama administration for seeking Snowden's extradition and interfering with his quest for asylum, which WikiLeaks is assisting with. He said that focusing on Snowden distracts from the sweeping surveillance program that he exposed.


    "Snowden has issued an asylum application to Ecuador and possibly other countries," Assange said from the Ecuadorian embassy in London, where he is himself avoiding extradition by Sweden and potentially the United States. "We are aware where Mr. Snowden is. He is in a safe place and his spirits are high, but due to the bellicose threats coming from the US administration, we cannot go into further details at this time." Kristinn Hrafnsson, a WikiLeaks spokeswoman, added that Snowden is also formally seeking asylum in Iceland, but wouldn't name other potential countries that he is petitioning for safe haven.


    After Snowden arrived in Moscow on Sunday, Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino Aroca, tweeted that Ecuador had received an asylum request from Snowden. Assange says that the application is being carefully considered.


    National Security Council spokesperson Caitlin Hayden issued a statement Monday morning urging Russia to send Snowden back to the United States: "Given our intensified cooperation after the Boston marathon bombings and our history of working with Russia on law enforcement matters—including returning numerous high level criminals back to Russia at the request of the Russian government—we expect the Russian Government to look at all options available to expel Mr. Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice for the crimes with which he is charged."


    Michael Ratner, an attorney for WikiLeaks and president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said on the call that it's troubling to see the United States trying to block asylum for someone who is a "clear whistleblower." He added, however, that "maybe it's not so surprising," given the Obama administration's history of cracking down on whistleblowers.


    Questions have been raised about Snowden's whistleblower status, particularly since, after disclosing the NSA's domestic surveillance efforts, he revealed sensitive national security information about US cyberattacks in China, alleging that the NSA hacked the text messages of Chinese mobile phone users. In an online chat with The Guardian, Snowden claimed: "I did not reveal any US operations against legitimate military targets." According to CNN, Snowden told Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa in a letter that he fears that if he is sent back to the United States, it is "unlikely that I will have a fair trial or humane treatment."


    "The Obama administration was not given a mandate by the people of the United States to hack and spy upon the entire world," Assange said. "To now attempt to violate international asylum law by calling for the rendition of Edward Snowden further demonstrates the breakdown in the rule of law by the Obama administration, which sadly has become familiar to so many."
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  11. #191
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Go to the original link for videos etc: http://www.naturalnews.com/040906_NS...eme_Court.html



    As Natural News predicted: NSA has been blackmailing Supreme Court judges, members of Congress and more

    Sunday, June 23, 2013
    by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger

    Tags: NSA spying, blackmail, Supreme Court


    (NaturalNews) Ten days ago, I publicly stated my belief that the NSA had used its spy apparatus to gather dirt on Supreme Court Justice John Roberts, then used that leverage to force him to change his vote on Obamacare. See the original article here.

    Five days later, I also predicted the NSA was using its spy powers to surveil members of Congress and the U.S. Senate. In an article published on June 16, 2013, I wrote, "There could already be countless cases of the NSA using its god-like powers to blackmail people in key positions in the U.S. Senate (which is full of pedophiles and perverts), the House of Representatives, the State Department or even the US Supreme Court. There are virtually no limits to the abuses of this power."

    Suddenly, new revelations prove this to be true. Russ Tice, a Bush-era NSA analyst-turned-whistleblower has sounded the alarm on the true depth of the NSA's surveillance abuses. In an interview on the Boiling Frogs Podcast, Tice stated:

    They went after -- and I know this because I had my hands literally on the paperwork for these sort of things -- they went after high-ranking military officers; they went after members of Congress, both Senate and the House, especially on the intelligence committees and on the armed services committees and some of the -- and judicial...

    They went after lawyers and law firms. All kinds of -- heaps of lawyers and law firms. They went after judges. One of the judges is now sitting on the Supreme Court that I had his wiretap information in my hand. Two are former FISA court judges. They went after State Department officials. They went after people in the executive service that were part of the White House -- their own people.



    We must now assume the NSA is in charge, not elected representatives
    These revelations are absolutely explosive. They reveal exactly what I feared (and publicly warned about) -- that the true group running things in the U.S. government is now the NSA, not the White House and certainly not Congress.

    With its massive spy grid system in placed for years, the NSA has gathered dirt on everyone in a position of power. Anyone with a secret is now compromised and can therefore be controlled. This even includes President Obama, who can be safely assumed to be nothing more than a charismatic puppet.

    As Tice explained in the podcast:

    Here's the big one... this was in summer of 2004, one of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with a 40-something-year-old wannabe senator for Illinois. You wouldn't happen to know where that guy lives right now would you? It's a big white house in Washington, D.C. That's who they went after, and that's the president of the United States now.

    In reading this, I hope you realize that the only people who are still left standing and telling the truth are people who the NSA could not corner with compromising dirt. And because the vast majority of U.S. Senators, in particular, are perverted, deviant, power-hungry monsters with all sorts of disgusting secrets involving under-age children, they are very easily compromise and controlled.

    Remember: Natural News was the first news organization to publicly state that the NSA had been used to alter the Supreme Court decision on Obamacare. Almost no one picked up that story other than Glenn Beck. The media ignored it.

    People had better wake up and realize that the things you read here on Natural News very often come true with frightening accuracy. I'm the guy who publicly predicted the Bitcoin crash, for example, less than 24 hours before it happened.

    More recently, I have publicly predicted something far more concerning: the rise of "Skynet" via commercialized quantum computers now being used by Google to create self-learning machines. The NSA spy grid will eventually be turned over to these systems, and at some point they may decide that all humans are the enemy.

    Here's my interview on the Robert Scott Bell Show where we discuss this very topic:



    While the world is focused on Lady Gaga, the NSA is destroying humanity
    Not one in a thousand people is aware of the issues I've outlined here. Most of the world is focused on celebrity gossip, tabloid news, sports entertainment or just trying to survive to the next paycheck. Almost no one understands how the entire future of humanity is being placed in jeopardy by the combination of a global spy grid infrastructure and highly-complex quantum computing systems.

    This is potentially a civilization-ending mistake. It's in the category of a mass extinction event such as giant asteroid slamming into the planet. And if we proceed with this mistake, giving rise to a race of hyper-intelligent machines that decide to eliminate humanity, the machines will write, in their own history books, how the only purpose of humanity's existence was to give rise to the machines. Once that was accomplished, humanity served no further purpose and was therefore "erased."

    After all, any rational look at humanity right now would have to reach the conclusion that humanity is a danger to the planet (and possibly the universe). Human civilization has the technology of an advanced race but the ethics, morality and wisdom of an infant. The human race destroys life, pollutes a precious planet which is extremely rare in the galaxy, sets off nuclear bombs in its own atmosphere, poisons its own children (mercury, fluoride, vaccines, etc.) and worships materialism and fame rather than happiness and purpose.

    From the point of view of a hyper-intelligent machine, humanity itself cannot meet the minimum standards of a race that should be allowed to exist. The best way to save the planet, it may decide, is to eradicate humanity.

    Google and the NSA appear to be playing pivotal roles in setting precisely such a scenario into motion. Blind to the implications of their own actions, high-IQ scientists in these organizations are, in fact, pushing humanity into the jaws of an impossibly powerful monster: a self-aware, multi-dimensional, all-seeing, all-knowing "God" surveillance machine.

    And that machine, rising from the NSA, will watch and record everything you do for the rest of your life. It will also have all the dirt on everyone in a position of power, so it will be able to run "mass blackmail campaigns" to get what it wants.

    Still think you live in a democracy where your vote decides things?

    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040906_NS...#ixzz2X9oNu6oH
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    The Leaker, the Passport & Pizza Dinner: How & Why Hong Kong Let Snowden Go

    AP Photo/Vincent Yu



    Dashiell Bennett 3:14 PM ET



    We still don't know for sure what transpired behind the scenes this weekend that allowed Edward Snowden to escape Hong Kong, but piecing together the conflicting accounts today suggests the holed-up situation became an international headache nobody wanted to deal with, followed by a daring — if still mystifying — exodus..


    The official claim from Hong Kong is that the American request to have Snowden arrested was incomplete and not thus not fully legal. Hong Kong officials also claimed that they did not receive notification from the United States that Snowden's passport had been revoked and therefore had no right to stop the NSA leaker when he boarded a plane for Moscow (or wherever he is). The White House disputed that claim on Monday, saying they were never informed of any problems with the request, and that even though the passport wasn't revoked until Saturday, HK officials were fully aware of the situation.


    Why Snowden decided to leave when he did is another matter, and it may have swung on a pair of shadowy "intermediaries," serving as go-betweens for him and Hong Kong government. One is a lawyer named Albert Ho who was advising Snowden in Hong Kong and asking questions on his behalf.


    According to Ho, he met with Snowden and other lawyers over a pizza dinner last week (after everyone put their cellphones in the fridge to avoid snooping) to discuss the fugitive's options. He suggested to Snowden that even if he were to fight extradition from Hong Kong, he would likely be placed under arrest while the proceedings played out. During that time — which could take months or even years — Snowden could have been held without bail and denied access to a computer, a situation he found unacceptable.
    "He didn’t go out, he spent all his time inside a tiny space, but he said it was O.K. because he had his computer,” Mr. Ho said. “If you were to deprive him of his computer, that would be totally intolerable.”
    So after learning that, Snowden asked Ho to reached out to the Hong Kong government to see if they would either; a) release him on bail while he fought extradition, or b) let him leave the country altogether. Ho, who is also a long-time legislator in Hong Kong, took Snowden's questions to government officials.


    After he did so, however, Ho says that another, still unknown intermediary reached out to Snowden and told him that he should leave the city soon... and he would not be stopped at the airport if he did so. Ho believes that second middleman was actually working for Beijing and that Hong Kong's only role was to stay out of the way of his departure. Another source told the Times that Hong Kong simply went around Ho, because they didn't trust him and didn't want any government officials talking directly with Snowden. (Ho is a long-time critic of Beijing and has called for Hong Kong's full independence.) Another lawmaker, Charles Mok, says the U.S. arrest request was held up Hong Kong's Chief Executive, possibly at Beijing's request. While China has officially stayed out of it, both men may be trying to cast suspicion on Bejing and make Hong Kong look guiltless.


    Either way, that encouragement to leave, plus the news on Friday that he had been formally indicted back in the United States, prompted Snowden to get out of town.
    Whether or not it was Beijing or Hong Kong that showed Snowden the exit doesn't really matter since it seems neither government was interested in the potential difficulties that came with letting him stay. For both nations, a protracted legal fight would strain relations with the United States and with each other. And Snowden himself recognized the difficult of trying to navigate three different legal systems (the U.S., China, and Hong Kong) while likely being in jail the whole time.


    A continuous debate over what Hong Kong's "one nation, two systems" agreement with China actually means is not a fight either side was willing to have right now. (Hong Kong was also concerned that the U.S. generous no visa rule of their citizen would be in jeopardy, seriously hampering business relationships and tourism for both sides.) The short-term annoyance of being scolded by the U.S. over his escape, would have been nothing compared to years-long international incident. Snowden is Moscow's problem now.


    Plus, whatever upside could be gleaned from having Snowden as a guest was already accomplished and used up. By announcing that U.S. spies routinely hacked into Chinese servers, Snowden gave Beijing a huge propaganda win, both at home and abroad, as it makes the Americans look like the abusive agressor in the cyberwars, and makes Chinese censors look like patriotic heroes for locking down their domestic internet. There is also unconfirmed speculation that if the Chinese wanted more secrets from Snowden computer files, they already took them.


    It soon became obvious that the best solution for everyone was to find Snowden a place to fight his battle. All they had to do was look away long enough for him to get on a plane.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Ok, the "Judge" on FNC is now calling this guy a hero.

    He took an oath to uphold the US Constitution which apparently trumps any "oath" you take to protect classified.....? I'm a little confused on that bit, but I can go with it for the moment. lol


    I don't remember "taking an oath" about classified. I remember signing non-disclosure agreements though. There's a considerable difference.

    And the fact is, the guy should have NOT fled the country, since it makes him appear "guilty". He should have gone through some channels first, then stepped outside the normal channels and brought in a Congressional member or something along those lines before he left the country.
    Libertatem Prius!


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  14. #194
    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    If I were a leader of a country that was spied on during a g20 meeting I would be irritated, then to have the disclosure from Snowden that proves the ability? yeah. Sorry, we cant expel him to the US. Currently, Kerry is doing what was said of GW. Swaggering and pushing around other countries. Nope. That will not work here. The truth is showing that we are seen as weak and in truth, we are. Thanks Valerie.

    As to an oath, Snowden was not military nor congress nor any office holder that takes such an oath, BUT as an American, he holds the rights we have an citizens dear. This he plainly shows and his father confirmed in his interview. While we are assured he signed disclosure agreements, it is also assured he signed before knowing the NSA was doing this wide net of domestic data in violation of A4.

    Essentially, our own government is breaking the law, so you cannot expect our own government to treat him fairly. Not really. Add that we have an out of control mechanism that appears to create accidental deaths and I cannot say I would not do as Snowden has in going to HK and onward.

    In my theory Snowden stays alive because he is an asset to the CIA, and as long as he stays an asset and not a liability, he will remain alive, barring some random act.

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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Phil, I really think you got the right line on this.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Well.... the Pot calling the Kettle Black....

    http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/209...-security.html


    NSA work essential to security

    Editorials June 24, 2013 10:20PM

    Edward Snowden





    Edward Snowden should be chased down and put on trial for leaking state secrets.


    That much seems obvious.


    It does not matter that the secrets Snowden leaked should not have been secrets to begin with, such as the National Security Agency’s wholesale tracking of Americans’ cellphone calls. We readily agree that the public should be better informed — and have more to say — about when and how government pokes around in our private lives.


    But the fact remains that clandestine investigative work, by the likes of the NSA and the CIA, is essential to our nation’s safety, and that work becomes impossible when any employee, from clerk to general, feels free to divulge classified information as he sees fit.


    Snowden leaked that the NSA is gathering phone records. Good for him, say his defenders. But would they be so admiring if Snowden had, say, leaked the names of American spies working in dangerous places? And what’s to stop the next Edward Snowden, despite having taken an oath of secrecy, from deciding he knows best and doing just that?


    When House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi made that point on Saturday, at a meeting of lefty activists, she was shouted down.


    Snowden “did violate the law in terms of releasing those documents,” Pelosi told the group.


    “You suck,” a man shouted back.


    Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) pointed out Sunday that nobody is even sure what other classified information Snowden has and might reveal.


    “Whatever his motives are,” Feinstein said, “he could have stayed and faced the music.”


    Feinstein was talking on “Face the Nation,” so nobody shouted her down for making good sense.


    “He has taken an oath,” Feinstein continued. “If you can’t keep the oath, get out. And then do something about it in a legal way.”


    Exactly.
    Last edited by American Patriot; June 25th, 2013 at 12:43.
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    Why The U.S. Hasn't Nabbed Edward Snowden Yet

    CBC | Posted: 06/25/2013 6:19 am EDT | Updated: 06/25/2013 8:21 am EDT

    edward snowden

    NSA Leak, NSA Whistleblower, Snowden Russia, Asylum Edward Snowden, edward snowden, Edward Snowden Arrest, Edward Snowden Asylum, Where Is Edward Snowden, Canada News

    As surveillance whistleblower Edward Snowden hopscotches across the globe to avoid extradition to the United States, some wonder how mighty America could ever fail to catch its most famous fugitive.

    But experts suggest that the intense public interest in the former National Security Agency contractor is helping him stay free, at least for now.

    "This is a case where there are mixed feelings, so the United States is walking a tightrope, I think, with a lot of its own people who are really upset by what they've just found out," said Albert Berry, a professor emeritus in international economics at University of Toronto's Munk School for International Studies.

    "The United States government probably doesn't want to appear very aggressive in this case because their back is weak, so to speak."

    Snowden, 30, has spent the last month in Hong Kong after leaking details about a secretive U.S. surveillance system called Prism that sifts through huge troves of phone and online data.

    On Sunday, the U.S. fugitive wanted on espionage charges flew to Moscow, in what was described as the first leg in a journey to Ecuador.

    But when Snowden failed to get on a connecting flight to Cuba as expected, U.S. authorities and media outlets around the world began wondering where the American was and what his plans actually were.

    There are suggestions he's still in Russia and that the U.S. has amplified pressure on the already tense relationship between the countries.
    Espionage charges pose a problem

    So far, though, American pressure has reaped little in the Snowden case.

    Reports suggest the U.S. government has spent nearly 10 days seeking action by Hong Kong, a special administrative region of China, on the Snowden case, asking it early on to provisionally arrest him in anticipation of his extradition. The U.S. also revoked his passport.

    But on Sunday, Snowden flew safely to Moscow. Asked for an explanation, Hong Kong officials blamed the process for his escape, saying the U.S. failed to "comply with legal requirements under Hong Kong law."

    White House spokesman Jay Charney said he didn't "buy" the technical issue, but by that point U.S. officials were focused on pressuring Russia to hand over Snowden.

    Media reports suggest the U.S. could have requested an Interpol red notice, essentially an international arrest warrant sent out to all member countries, but espionage charges are considered political, a domain that Interpol avoids.

    Snowden is charged under the 1917 Espionage Act with unauthorized communication of national defence information and wilful communication of classified intelligence, but he also faces the non-political charge of theft of government property.
    Political charges help Snowden

    The political nature of the key charges could also help Snowden skirt extradition treaty agreements.

    Ecuador, Snowden's apparent destination, has an extradition treaty with the U.S., but it includes an exception for crimes or action of a political nature.

    Vancouver-based extradition lawyer Gary Botting suggested that the official agreements between countries to transfer suspected or convicted criminals are often subject to the political climate.

    "Extradition is always ultimately a political decision," said Botting.

    On the other hand, the lawyer noted that even if Snowden lands in a country where there is no extradition treaty, that nation could negotiate a diplomatic solution for the single case.

    But the public outrage and the politicization of the case currently works in Snowden's favour, ensuring countries are far more hesitant to acquiesce to the U.S. demands.

    "The more it is politicized, the more likely it is that the country where he ends up will say, 'Well, we can't extradite him, because you're trying to extradite him for a political purpose or for a political reason or for a political crime,'" added Botting.

    An online petition calling for the U.S. to fully pardon Snowden had by early Monday surpassed the threshold of 100,000 signatures necessary to secure an official response.

    Botting said that the U.S. needs an overhaul of its strategy if it expects to succeed with extradition.

    "If the United States wants him back, they're going to have to minimize the political part of it and stick to the legalities of it and be very persuasive of the minister of justice wherever he ends up," said Botting.
    Nothing to lose for Ecuador

    Ecuador, meanwhile, said Monday that it had received a request for asylum from Snowden, but had not yet decided what to do.

    University of Toronto professor Berry said Ecuador is a small country, but one determined lately to defy the U.S., sometimes for domestic political gain.

    "They don't feel they have a great deal to lose," said Berry, since Ecuador is not economically linked to the U.S.

    Ecuador President Rafael Correa's left-wing government has railed against American imperialism and given the boot to a U.S. airbase in the country.

    As well, Berry notes that any country willing to help Snowden will be regarded well by the general public. "They're kind of tapping into a lot of support around the world," he said.

    WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has spent the last year holed up in London in the safety of the Ecuadorian Embassy, where he was granted diplomatic asylum.

    Amnesty International said Monday that no matter where Snowden lands, he has a right to seek asylum due to a "well-founded fear of persecution" he'd face in the U.S.

    Even if the asylum bid fails, Widney Brown, senior director of international law and policy at Amnesty International, said "no country can return a person to another country where there is a substantial risk of ill-treatment."

    Last year, the UN special rapporteur on torture said the American government used cruel and inhumane treatment toward Bradley Manning, the U.S. soldier arrested for allegedly passing classified material onto WikiLeaks, for holding him in solitary confinement for nearly a year.

    Then again, some say trouble could find Snowden wherever he goes.

    "It's not a James Bond world out there," said Botting, but he suggests that the deeper Snowden gets into the spy vs. spy world, the more care he'll need to take.

    "You have to watch your back."
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    A Chinese paper is reporting Snowden left a 200K/yr job to go to Booz Allen, specifically because of the program to see everything. idk how true that is as like most of our own papers, Chinese papers are state run and like ours, there is propaganda.

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    "“Whatever his motives are,” Feinstein said, “he could have stayed and faced the music.”
    Really? Those who actually take the whistleblower route are not in for a good time over much more trivial matters when compared. As to Whatever his motives were, she should realize it. It is obvious and she actually took an oath.


    “He has taken an oath,” Feinstein continued. “If you can’t keep the oath, get out. And then do something about it in a legal way.”
    I can agree taking the legal route is best but this is probably the biggest deal ever in our country. Nixon, yawn when compared. Also, he was not in a postion to take an oath, only a non disclosure. That, I feel could be challenged due to the illegal nature of what he saw our government doing in violation of our citizen rights. Is he a hero? Not really. Is he a traitor? Not really again. He violated an agreement in favor of a moral good.

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    Default Re: Obama Administration Spying on Americans (NSA)

    There is NO OATH.

    Pelosi took an oath.
    Libertatem Prius!


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