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Thread: Mexicans will not be detered.

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    Forum General Brian Baldwin's Avatar
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    Default Mexicans will not be detered.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1633015/posts

    CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico - President Bush's decision to send the National Guard to the Mexican border drew an angry response from migrants who said troops would not deter them, while Mexico's government said Monday it would respect the U.S. action as "a sovereign decision."
    After Bush announced the plan to send 6,000 soldiers to the U.S.-Mexico border late Monday, would-be migrants at a shelter in the Mexican city of Ciudad Juarez said the presence of troops would not stop them from sneaking across the Rio Grande.
    "I have no work in my country so if the soldiers turn me back, I will try again," said Raul Garduno, a 28-year old Salvadoran.
    On Sunday, President Vicente Fox telephoned Bush to express concern about what he called plans to "militarize" the border. But on Monday, Fox's spokesman, Ruben Aguilar, said Mexico had no choice but to respect the action.
    "It is a sovereign decision," he said. "We can't interfere."
    In a further sign that Mexico would not take a strong stance against the U.S. announcement, the Foreign Relations Department released a statement saying that Bush's message showed a "recognition of the importance of immigrants to the social, political and economic life (of the United States) and reinforced the vision that the migration phenomenon needs an integral reform."
    But presidential hopeful Felipe Calderon from Fox's National Action Party said the military presence would endanger migrants, while failing to stop the human wave heading northwards.
    "These measures have been proven mistaken. They increase the social and human costs for migrants and only benefit criminal groups that make money on the hopes and suffering of those looking for an opportunity," Calderon said in a statement.
    In a migrant shelter in Ciudad Juarez, a group of 10 Central Mexicans and Central Americans watched a soap opera while Bush's speech was broadcast live on the other channel.
    "People here have more important things to do then watch Bush," said Carlos Amado Luarca, a Dominican monk who works in the shelter. "This plan to send soldiers is one more sign of the decadence of the American empire."
    Along the border in Nuevo Laredo, across from Laredo, Texas, Honduran Antonio Auriel said he would make it into the United States whatever was in his path.
    "Soldiers in the border? That won't stop me. I'll swim the river and jump the wall. I'm going to arrive in the United States," Auriel said.
    Francisco Loureiro, who runs a migrant shelter in Nogales, across the border from Nogales, Ariz., criticized the plan as an "aggressive action, more than anything because the migrant is not a criminal or a terrorist."
    "His only objective is to work ... and a government that supposedly lobbies for world peace is now acting against defenseless migrants who are helping to fill a need for employees in the U.S.," he said.
    U.S. ambassador to Mexico Tony Garza issued a statement defending Bush's decision. "The United States has the right as a sovereign nation to make our border region more secure," Garza said. "The president is the commander in chief of the United States, and his responsibilities include ensuring the safety of the American people."

    I watched the President on TV last night and personally I don't believe its anything more than a sop. Business as usual with a few extra people to patrol the border with tied hands. More and more I think we the people should be heavily funding the Minutemen.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    I was pretty under whelmed to be honest. Extra eyes and hands are nice, but clearly not a policy, not a deep strategy. It could be a piece of a strategy, but I still haven't heard that multi-pronged approach. If we are serious about this at all, it starts with removing the economic incentive to come in the first place, and a meaningful penalty for illegally trying.

    Removing economic incentive is probably all but impossible since we are a land of opportunity compared to many other nations, but you could skew the incentive to legal economic attraction vs. illegal economic attraction. Many illegals occupy low position, low paying, very physical jobs. Crop picking, monotonous factory assembly. Give tax incentives to EMPLOYERS who can verify and document the legal residency of their employees. Make it (via taxes) cheaper to employ a legal migrant vs. an illegal one. And not a cursory verification, a meaningful one. Make and ENFORCE penalties against employers who clearly ignored laws. Once employers see the bookkeeping impact, they'll be motivated as a second line of defense. To some degree we will realize there will be a conflict of employing legal migrants vs. Americans, but we suck it up as a social cost for one aspect of border security.

    Meaningful penalties isn't easy either. I don't see jail as the answer since all that really does is economically penalize us by having to fund the capacity to house, feed, and secure possibly tens of thousands (care to say more?) of people. That money could be better spent elsewhere rather than keeping an otherwise non-violent offender confined at our pocketbooks expense. Fining them is fruitless, they're usually economically challenged in the first place. Our government and think tanks should look for creative disincentives for illegals. Perhaps not for them personally, but their countries of origin. For every X-number of caught illegals, Y-amount of import tax is levied against certain products. At some point the origin countries Industry is going to start cranking up the heat on the origin countries national government. Policies will be generated internally to cut down on illegals from their side.

    When economic incentive is the root motivation for illegal movement, physical barriers are a poor defense. They just build a better beast. We need to cut the root motivation out, make it crystal clear illegal employment will have little benefit and great cost for both employer and employee. We may have to initially up-fund federal legal budgets for going after and prosecuting American employers who ignore the law, but after some examples are made this should decline naturally.

    Bah. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud here, I don't know how viable any of this is. But this kind of deeper pervasive strategy is what I wanted to hear about last night, not planting more troops out in the desert in SUVs, talking about the game, whiling away the shift waiting to maybe see something.

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    Forum General Brian Baldwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    You're on the right track with the employers. But along with tax incentives there should be some extremely stiff fines for hiring illegals. Policy is better written with a hit to the pocketbook when it comes to business'.

    I don't know about you but I'm more than willing to pay the extra quarter for a head of lettuce to have it picked by a LEGAL American Citizen. And I'm all for a temporary work permit under certain terms. The way they're structuring it now seems more likely to turn into a wide spread amnesty.

    Restructure the immigration visas too. Make more available to Mexico. This way we get more citizens with the desire to become Americans and not a drain on our society. I'm not a racist by any means. (too many breeds in my blood for that. lol) So I'm all for them coming here IF they're going to be productive in a constructive and legal manner and not just so we can become one giant welfare and high crime rate sinkhole.

    As for the troops on the border.... Orders to shoot to kill. Otherwise they're just watching dust devils. The guard could seal the border quickly if the government truely wanted that. They don't though. I haven't yet figured out why, but this along with foriegn port security companies has me plenty concerned.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...er+enforcement

    Tougher border enforcement has backfired, experts say

    By Spencer S. Hsu

    The Washington Post

    WASHINGTON — Beefed-up enforcement at the U.S.-Mexico border since Sept. 11, 2001, has substantially increased the number of arrests of illegal immigrants, but tens of thousands of captured non-Mexicans continue to be released into the United States because there is no place to hold them, according to experts and immigration officials.

    The vast majority simply slip away inside the country after being issued "Notices to Appear" for a deportation hearing — documents known to Border Patrol agents as "Notices to Disappear."

    The success of border crossers who stay in the United States through this "catch-and-release" process has encouraged others who hope to enter the country the same way.

    In a dozen speeches since October, President Bush has vowed to replace catch-and-release with the "catch-and-return" of 160,000 "other than Mexican" (OTM) immigrants arrested each year. The goal is to deny court hearings to all but asylum seekers, speed deportations and make the most of limited detention space.

    But as Washington debates the overhaul of the nation's immigration laws and Bush prepares to address the nation on border protection today, the persistent catch-and-release problem is a reminder of costly and unintended consequences of past enforcement efforts.

    Even if authorities overcome operational and legal hurdles to curb the flow of people from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala and other countries, experts say they will be addressing only a tiny sliver of the illegal-immigration problem. The U.S. Border Patrol arrested nearly 1.2 million people last year — the vast majority of them Mexicans who were returned across the border — and estimates that 500,000 others evaded capture.

    "What Congress has built is one of the most expensive revolving doors in the world," said Victor Cerda, former chief of staff of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

    Since the founding of the Homeland Security Department, arrests of non-Mexican border crossers have tripled, from 49,545 in 2003 to 155,000 in 2005. But there has not been a corresponding support for detention beds, courts, inland enforcement or diplomatic and administrative reforms.

    As a result, the spike in arrests backfired, because there was no place to put the tens of thousands of new detainees. Overwhelmed immigration courts can't keep up.

    Beset by start-up and coordination problems in the new Homeland Security Department, ICE faced a $500 million budget deficit in 2004, leaving a fourth of its detention jobs unfilled. As arrests climbed last year, Border Patrol agents released 70 percent of non-Mexicans into the country. Of those released and later ordered to leave the country, only 18 percent do.

    Word soon spread to smugglers and illegal immigrants.

    Federal statistics show the result: The number of illegal immigrants who failed to appear in court after being arrested and released more than tripled from 29,550 in 2003 to 97,868 in 2005, or 60 percent of cases, up from 32 percent.

    "The system is broken as we've known it. ... It's a joke," said Robert Bonner, head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection from 2003 to 2005. For those considering entering the country illegally, Bonner said, "it was the opposite of deterrence. It was an invitation."

    The new attempt to solve the problem draws critics from the right and left. To those who want tougher enforcement, the offensive on non-Mexicans tackles only a small portion of the flow of illegal immigration and amounts to "window dressing" that obscures feckless efforts elsewhere.

    "It's not quite as important as the administration would have you believe," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors stronger enforcement. "Focusing on just one rivulet of this flood is missing the point."

    Among pro-immigration advocates, the changes "put a Band-Aid on a broken leg," said Christina DeConcini, director of policy at the National Immigration Forum. With the estimated number of illegal immigrants in the United States at nearly 12 million and growing by perhaps 500,000 a year, the nation can't enforce its way out of the problem, DeConcini said.

    Bush and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff propose to reduce the flow of illegal immigration by creating a guest-worker program and a path for illegal immigrants to earn citizenship. They would toughen enforcement at the borders and inside the country through new surveillance technology and crackdowns on employers.

    They have proposed $858 million more for 1,500 new Border Patrol agents — which would bring the total to 14,000, a 62 percent increase since 2001 — and 6,700 new detention beds, for a total of 27,500.
    Insane. We've got to have the most expensive catch and release program known on the face of the earth. Why spend the time, energy, and money catching when we turn right around and let them go within the States? Why bother issuing a "Notice to appear" when the over whelming evidence shows they just skip town anyway? Why not at a minimum just skip the notice and spend the money on a secure bus to the border once you've verified illegal status and no documentation. At least force them into the effort of re-crossing again. Or is that just as pointless and too cruel?

    This whole thing drives me nuts.

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    Forum General Brian Baldwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    Chain gangs. There's some cheap labor! LOL catch and work their asses off! Make them work that way until their court appearce date then again until they can be deported. Feed them cold unsweetened cornmeal mush and a daily vitamin.

    And when the media and leftists complain? Add them to the chain! lol
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    I myself am a big fan of community service as a penalty for non-violent crime. Frees up jail space for truly high risk felons, cheaper than 24/7 jail, and actually does some good and is productive for the community the crime was in. Give them 3 cheap meals, secured housing with 8PM to 6AM curfew, and a 8-10 hour workday. After time served - A complimentary escorted bus ride to the border. Violate the terms, and we can step up to something that's less desirable.

    Not an ultimate answer, but a start.

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    Forum General Brian Baldwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    The community service thing works for me. Problem is that there is no way of watching them closely if we don't make a labor camp for them that was under guard. The costs rise quickly there after unless the work the illegals do is very productive indeed.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/wa...=1&oref=slogin

    Roll Call Vote

    The 40-55 roll call by which the Senate rejected a measure by Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., to make allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the United States contingent on first securing borders against new undocumented immigrants.
    On this vote, a "yes" vote was a vote to add Isakson's proposal to an immigration bill and a "no" vote was a vote to reject it.
    Voting "yes" were seven Democrats and 33 Republicans.
    Voting "no" were 36 Democrats, 18 Republicans and one independent.
    Alabama
    Sessions (R) Yes; Shelby (R) No.
    Alaska
    Murkowski (R) No; Stevens (R) No.
    Arizona
    Kyl (R) Yes; McCain (R) Not Voting.
    Arkansas
    Lincoln (D) No; Pryor (D) No.
    California
    Boxer (D) No; Feinstein (D) No.
    Colorado
    Allard (R) Yes; Salazar (D) No.
    Connecticut
    Dodd (D) No; Lieberman (D) No.
    Delaware
    Biden (D) No; Carper (D) No.
    Florida
    Martinez (R) No; Nelson (D) No.
    Georgia
    Chambliss (R) Yes; Isakson (R) Yes.
    Hawaii
    Akaka (D) No; Inouye (D) No.
    Idaho
    Craig (R) No; Crapo (R) Yes.
    Illinois
    Durbin (D) No; Obama (D) No.
    Indiana
    Bayh (D) No; Lugar (R) No.
    Iowa
    Grassley (R) Yes; Harkin (D) No.
    Kansas
    Brownback (R) No; Roberts (R) Yes.
    Kentucky
    Bunning (R) Yes; McConnell (R) Yes.
    Louisiana
    Landrieu (D) Yes; Vitter (R) Yes.
    Maine
    Collins (R) No; Snowe (R) No.
    Maryland
    Mikulski (D) No; Sarbanes (D) No.
    Massachusetts Kennedy (D) No; Kerry (D) No.
    Michigan
    Levin (D) No; Stabenow (D) Yes.
    Minnesota
    Coleman (R) No; Dayton (D) No.
    Mississippi
    Cochran (R) Not Voting; Lott (R) Not Voting.
    Missouri
    Bond (R) Yes; Talent (R) Yes.
    Montana
    Baucus (D) No; Burns (R) Yes.
    Nebraska
    Hagel (R) No; Nelson (D) Yes.
    Nevada
    Ensign (R) Yes; Reid (D) No.
    New Hampshire
    Gregg (R) Not Voting; Sununu (R) Yes.
    New Jersey
    Lautenberg (D) No; Menendez (D) No.
    New Mexico
    Bingaman (D) No; Domenici (R) Yes.
    New York
    Clinton (D) No; Schumer (D) No.
    North Carolina
    Burr (R) Yes; Dole (R) Yes.
    North Dakota
    Conrad (D) Yes; Dorgan (D) Yes.
    Ohio
    DeWine (R) No; Voinovich (R) No.
    Oklahoma
    Coburn (R) Yes; Inhofe (R) Yes.
    Oregon
    Smith (R) Yes; Wyden (D) Yes.
    Pennsylvania
    Santorum (R) Yes; Specter (R) No.
    Rhode Island
    Chafee (R) No; Reed (D) No.
    South Carolina
    DeMint (R) Yes; Graham (R) No.
    South Dakota
    Johnson (D) No; Thune (R) Yes.
    Tennessee
    Alexander (R) Yes; Frist (R) Yes.
    Texas
    Cornyn (R) Yes; Hutchison (R) Yes.
    Utah
    Bennett (R) No; Hatch (R) Yes.
    Vermont
    Jeffords (I) No; Leahy (D) No.
    Virginia
    Allen (R) Yes; Warner (R) No.
    Washington
    Cantwell (D) No; Murray (D) No.
    West Virginia
    Byrd (D) Yes; Rockefeller (D) Not Voting.
    Wisconsin
    Feingold (D) No; Kohl (D) No.
    Wyoming
    Enzi (R) Yes; Thomas (R) Yes.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    Well surprise, surprise, surprise...

    DeWeenie and VoinoBitch voted no.

    Can you guess why I am either not voting or voting Constitution Party in the '06 election for DeWeenie's seat?

    (P.S. I voted for William Pierce against him in the May 2nd primary but he just has too much name recognition in Ohio )

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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    Lou Dobbs has some interesting comments. Fiscally he's conservative, socially somewhat center-left, but on border security and immigration he's pretty much right with the overall population in general - fed up, fix it, now.

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/17/dobbs.bushspeech/

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush's address from the Oval Office on border security and illegal immigration failed to satisfy either advocates of amnesty or those demanding that the government secure our borders and ports. Whether by design or not, however, the president did manage to advance public awareness of both crises.


    The president finally acknowledged the unsustainable social and economic burdens of permitting millions of illegal aliens to forge documents, pressure our public schools and hospitals, and overtax our local and state budgets.
    And the president, in asking for more border patrol officers and sending 6,000 National Guardsmen to our southern border to support the Border Patrol, also acknowledged the federal government's utter failure to protect the American people by securing our borders, across which as many as three million illegal aliens enter this country each year.
    President Bush's five-point plan began with the words, "First, the United States must secure its borders." But the president did not assign any urgency to the national task of doing so. Deploying as many as 6,000 members of the National Guard to help secure our broken border with Mexico is positive step.
    But the president's proposal to place those National Guardsmen in some sort of adjunct support role is peculiar at best, and without question, woefully inadequate. The president sounded as if he were trying to appease Mexico's President Vicente Fox, assuring him we would not militarize the border. If there is to be appeasement at all, that should fall to the Mexican government rather than President Bush.
    Not only are millions of illegal aliens entering the United States each year across that border, but so are illegal drugs. More cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and marijuana flood across the Mexican than from any other place, more than three decades into the war on drugs.
    President Bush and all the open borders advocates should be held to account for not doing everything in their power to destroy the drug traffic across our borders, as well as illegal immigration.
    If it is necessary to send 20,000 -- 30,000 National Guard troops to the border with Mexico to preserve our national sovereignty and protect the American people from rampant drug trafficking, illegal immigration and the threat of terrorists, than I cannot imagine why this president and this Congress would hesitate to do so.
    And how can this president and this Congress begin to rationalize placing immigration reform, which has been neglected since the last amnesty 20 years ago, ahead of national security and the safety of all Americans?
    President Bush went on to say that in order to secure our borders we must create a temporary guest worker program. What? Come again, Mr. President. The president knows better, and so do the American people. Control of our borders and ports is necessary to our national security and a temporary worker program is an exploitive luxury for corporate America.
    The president also said we need to hold employers who hire illegal aliens accountable, but he failed to say how. What should be the penalties for these illegal employers? How large a fine should they receive? How many years in jail for the executives of such companies?
    It would have been inspiring to hear the president say that he and his friend Vicente Fox had discussed illegal immigration and drug trafficking and reached an agreement that both our country's militaries would be used to create a joint border security force, one that working together would ensure the integrity of the Untied States/Mexico border.
    Wouldn't it have been nice as well for this president to suggest that the U.S. government would also take seriously its responsibilities to create a new and efficient immigration system to accommodate the backlog of millions of people trying to do the right thing? The same agency that would have to oversee Mr. Bush's amnesty program could not begin to do so because the Citizenship and Immigration Services already faces a backlog of millions of people who are trying to enter this country lawfully.
    Aside from the fact that both political parties are complicit with corporate America and special interests in placing so-called immigration reform ahead of border and port security speaks volumes about our elected officials' commitment to the national interest and the weight and influence of corporate America over both parties.
    Mr. President, I don't think the American people will tolerate this much longer.
    Some choice comments:
    ... President Bush went on to say that in order to secure our borders we must create a temporary guest worker program. ...
    ... The president knows better, and so do the American people. Control of our borders and ports is necessary to our national security and a temporary worker program is an exploitive luxury for corporate America.
    I agree whole heartedly. A temporary worker program targets foreigners who abide by laws and rules and are willing to fill out paperwork and play the bureaucracy waiting game. I just don't see this program impacting the general illegal immigrant population who can't or won't do the paperwork/bureaucracy requirements. Worse yet, it's like pork barreling in a nice little gimme to Corp America buddies and it just looks bad. More cheap labor filling American jobs. Great.

    The president also said we need to hold employers who hire illegal aliens accountable, but he failed to say how. What should be the penalties for these illegal employers? How large a fine should they receive? How many years in jail for the executives of such companies?
    Bingo. Along the lines of what I said yesterday. Make the penalties of knowingly hiring illegals real. Make them stick. Make them accountable up the Corp food chain and CEOs will care. It comes down to - is the President willing to punish some possibly well connected GOP business leaders? (Yes there will be Dems too, but it'll be the GOPs that'll be working the backroom power players effectively.) Will he be willing to enforce across the board even when it's uncomfortable within the party?

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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    The quick and simple answer is no. Bush is bucking the majority of voters on the issue already. He will continue to do so. My thinking is that we have way too many people willing to vote for a party rather than a person. What we should be doing at each election is voting out the incumbant. Nothing wakes up a politico faster than a pink slip.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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  12. May 18th, 2006, 14:02

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    Deleted due to hyperlink errors

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    Forum General Brian Baldwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1634248/posts



    A representative from Mexican President Vicente Fox claims that if the US National Guard troops detain illegal aliens crossing the US-Mexico border, the Fox government will file a lawsuit against the Bush Administration in US federal court.
    There are some political observers who believe that the American Civil Liberties Union is preparing to assist the Mexican government in such a lawsuit. In fact, the ACLU sent a statement to the Mexican government regarding their stance on immigration enforcement.
    As Congress moves forward to reform our nation’s immigration laws, the ACLU said the US must reject measures that threaten to increase the bloodshed on our borders. "Innocent peoples’ lives and liberty should not be threatened by this dangerous deployment," said ACLU Director Anthony Romero.
    Following President Bush's speech on Monday night, the American Civil Liberties Union urged the president and congress to reject any measures that fail to uphold the letter and spirit of our laws and encouraged lawmakers to adopt immigration reform that protects the freedom and privacy of all in America. Conservatives are wholeheartedly in favor of upholding the "letter of the law," but it's the so-called "spirit of the law" that leads to the problems in the US on a multitude of issues, they say.
    "Turning immigration enforcement policy into another military operation is not the answer. The president’s proposed deployment of National Guard troops violates the spirit of the Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits the military from getting into the business of civilian law enforcement," says Romero.
    Mr. Romero failed to mention how National Guard troops are routinely deployed fully armed for disasters such as Katrina or terrorist attacks such as 9-11. In fact, during riots and other dangerous incidents, Guard troops are deployed without hesitation on the part of elected officials.
    "Our government and people have long recognized that federal law enforcement officers are the best equipped and trained to deal with these kinds of civilian law enforcement needs. Soldiers are trained to kill the enemy, and they lack the training to conduct proper law enforcement. Furthermore, they lack training to respect and protect border community residents’ civil liberties and safety. History has shown the dangers of using the military to engage in domestic law enforcement activities," said Romero.
    Ask America's law enforcement about the ACLU and you will get an earful about their anti-law enforcement actions. Suddenly, law enforcement officers are being praised by Romero, while his statements conjure up visions of Nazi stormtroopers.
    Meanwhile in Mexico, the popular left-wing newspaper La Jornada saw the move as a show of force by Mexico's much more powerful neighbor, six weeks before presidential elections in Mexico.
    "Installing National Guard support bases on the border is a way of warning Mexican voters... that the relationship with the United States could get dangerously complicated if a president is elected who does not understand the gringo power," wrote the paper's columnist Julio Hernández López.
    In a statement likely to swell his lead in the opinion polls, presidential candidate Felipe Calderon, from President Vicente Fox's own PAN party, was quick to add his own condemnation of the deployment of national guardsmen. "The focus on more security for the frontier, and the temporary use of the National Guard... has been seen in the past to be misguided," Mr Calderon said.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    I don't know WHY no one is talking about this.

    This is NOT a federal matter at the moment.

    Here is why.... Certainly there IS A border there. Certainly it is a NATIONAL border. It is also a STATE border.

    This is where is might get sticky, but if it were ME and I were the governor of a state that bordered on a foreign country where millions are crossing every year, *I* would order my STATE NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS to patrol WITHOUT the President telling me to do so. I would lock down the border in MY own state and prevent their crossing, forcing them to go to another place along the border. If the four states down there DID this, then there wouldn't be an issue in Mexico.

    If they DON'T do it, then they are idiots.

    The President won't do anything people BECAUSE this is A STATE ISSUE.

    Why isn't anyone NOT talking about this????????????????????????
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    Rick,
    From what I heard on one radio talk show (forgot which one, it might have been Savage), there is at least one state level individual talking about this.

    Don Goldwater, nephew to Barry Goldwater, is running for Arizona governor. He has pledged, when elected governor, to not only send the Arizona NG but also the state militia and various groups like the Yuma Patriots and the Minutemen to the border.

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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    Our current governor here in Arizona doesn't seem to get the point that this is a major issue. She keeps her mouth shut on the issue and only speaks up when the national spotlight is on her. No wonder why we have so many volunteers for the minute men.

    http://www.abc15.com/news/index.asp?did=26917

    Bush sympathetic toward Arizona's border woes


    YUMA, Ariz. (AP) -- President Bush expressed sympathy Thursday toward Arizona for the toll that illegal immigration takes on the state, saying tighter border enforcement and a guest worker program can lessen those problems.
    The president continued his push for an overhaul of the country's immigration policies in a speech before Border Patrol agents in this immigrant-smuggling hotspot.
    He also toured a fortified stretch of border that separates nearby San Luis from Mexico, speaking with Border Patrol agents and inspecting equipment used to track immigrants.
    "People here know firsthand that illegal immigration puts big pressure on local communities," Bush told agents in Yuma. "It puts pressure on schools, it puts pressure on the hospitals, it puts pressure on budgets."
    Arizona has been dogged with a heavy flow of illegal immigrants after the federal government tightened border enforcement in El Paso, Texas, and San Diego in the mid-1990s.
    Some traffic shifted over the past year to a 62-mile stretch of sandy desert around Yuma, making it the nation's busiest smuggling hotspot.
    The shift has led to a rise in immigrant arrests, violence by smugglers and deaths of illegal border-crossers in the larger Yuma Border Patrol sector.
    As it considers massive changes in immigration policy, Congress is divided over whether to focus solely on border security or whether to offer immigrants the chance to become U.S. citizens.
    Bush urged adding 6,000 agents to the 12,000-member Border Patrol and sending National Guard troops to the international boundary to perform support duties while the new agents are trained.
    The president also said the country needs a lawful way for immigrants to temporarily fill labor needs in the U.S. economy.
    Immigrants already living here ought to get the chance to become citizens if they pay a fine and taxes and learn English, according to Bush.
    "There are many people on the other side of the border who will do anything to come and work and that includes risking their lives crossing your desert or being willing to be stuffed into the back of an 18-wheeler," Bush said.
    Gov. Janet Napolitano, who toured the San Luis border with Bush, said the president's trip to Arizona is different from past visits by federal authorities who promised to help lessen the state's immigration woes.
    The visit -- Bush's second trip to Arizona in nearly six months to stump for immigration changes -- came three days after the president made a televised speech on immigration.
    The governor, a frequent critic of federal border enforcement efforts, said Bush is passionate about an immigration overhaul because, as a former governor of a border state, he understands the complexity of the issue.
    "We are now getting attention in Washington, D.C.," Napolitano said. "It would have been nice (for it) to have been earlier, but, hey, I'll take it whenever I can get it."
    Bush said the current system has led immigrants to turn to human smugglers, also known as "coyotes," who are blamed for a litany of abuses against their customers.
    "Coyotes -- that's a familiar word here in this part of the world," Bush said. "A lot of people around this country don't understand what a coyote is."
    (Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket???

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    Forum General Brian Baldwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    Rick, I don't know that it is only a state issue. The cost for a state to secure the border is almost prohibitive. If the feds back it, the costs become more minor.

    Now with that said... It benefits the rest of the country for those borders to be secured. But the rest of the country doesn't pay Arizona state taxes. Yet we expect them to spend major portions of their state income on securing the borders without help from the Feds. Shouldn't even be an issue actually but suddenly it is. Its certainly a state issue but its also a federal issue. We can't expect the individual states to shoulder the costs of such an endeavor. At the very least the federal government should be footing the bill to compensate the states' coffers.

    I suppose were I a State govenor I wouldn't want to let the feds get to entrenched in my affairs but I'd certainly expect them to pay their dues where required.
    Brian Baldwin

    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil.... For I am the meanest S.O.B. in the valley.


    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out." - Tony Blair on America



    It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

    It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

    It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

    It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

    -Father Denis O'Brien of the United States Marine Corp.


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    Default Re: Mexicans will not be detered.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13012544/

    Minutemen start installing Ariz. border fence

    Civilian border-patrol group seeking federal action along entire border




    Updated: 10:47 p.m. MT May 27, 2006



    PALOMINAS, Ariz. - Scores of volunteers gathered at a remote ranch Saturday to help a civilian border-patrol group start building a short security fence in hopes of reducing illegal immigration from Mexico.
    The Minuteman Civil Defense Corps plans to install a combination of barbed wire, razor wire, and in some spots, steel rail barriers along the 10-mile stretch of private land in southeastern Arizona.

    They hope it prompts the federal government to do the same along the entire Arizona border.

    President Bush has pledged to deploy as many as 6,000 National Guard troops to strengthen enforcement at the border. The guardsmen would fill in on some behind-the-lines Border Patrol jobs while that agency’s force is expanded.

    But the Minutemen have said it’s not enough. The group’s founder, Chris Simcox, said they want a secure fence and they’re starting at the site where his first patrols began in November 2002.

    Rancher Jack Ladd and his son, John, were hopeful the effort would limit the illegal immigrants and drug runners who have cut the small fence along the property or just driven over it to cross into the United States.
    “We’ve been fighting this thing for 10 years with the fence, and nobody will do anything,” Jack Ladd said.

    ‘We’re not going to stop’
    Most of the day was dedicated to speeches from politicians and Minutemen leaders and celebrating large donations the Minutemen group has been receiving.

    Minuteman spokeswoman Connie Hair said it would take up to three weeks to build the estimated $100,000 fence. So far, the group has raised $380,000 for more border fences, she said.

    Timothy Schwartz of Glendale, Ariz., who was among at least 200 volunteers gathered, said he wants to see a fence along the border from California to Texas.

    “We’re not going to stop,” Schwartz said. “We’re going to stay here with a group and keep building.”

    Quetzal Doty of Sun Lakes, Ariz., a retired U.S. diplomatic consular officer, brought his wife, Sandy, to the event.

    He said he’s convinced the Minutemen and most Americans aren’t anti-immigrant.

    “They’re just anti-illegal,” said Doty. “The Minutemen walk the extra mile to avoid being anti-immigrant and that’s what we like about the organization and what got us interested.”

    © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket???

    The only difference between martyrdom and suicide is the press coverage.

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