Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

  1. #1
    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    25,061
    Thanks
    52
    Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts

    Default PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level
    (Editor's note: This is part 1 of a 2-part story about China's push to improve its Type 95.)


    First unveiled to the West in 1997, China's Type 95 5.8x42mm assault rifle is currently being updated to improve its ergonomics, range and performance.

    It's no secret that China has vigorously updated its military since the United States first trounced Iraq in the First Gulf War. One of the most visible upgrades was when the People's Liberation Army (PLA) unveiled a modern, domestic-designed bullpup assault rifle.

    First seen by the West in 1997, the Type 95 or QBZ-95 (Q_ngwuqi Bùqi_ng--Zìdòng 1995 or Light Weapon, Rifle, Automatic 1995) was not only a dramatic departure from the PLA's older 7.62x39mm Type 81, but it was chambered for an entirely new cartridge - a modern, small-bore 5.8x42mm design that replaced the aging Soviet-designed 7.62x39mm M43 cartridge.

    Thanks to its bullpup design, the rifle itself is very short and handy, despite its 18.20-inch-long cold-hammer-forged barrel. Housed inside a synthetic shell is a short-stroke gas-operated action. A three-lug rotating bolt rides inside a conventional bolt carrier.

    The main features of this new weapon were its extensive use of high-tensile aluminum and modern, high-impact synthetic materials, plus improved human engineering. The rear sight's mounted on a carry handle, which also incorporates a proprietary optics rail. Housed inside the carry handle is an ambidextrous charging handle. Feed is from 30-round synthetic magazines.

    Quick Overview

    When examining the design, one notes its emphasizes on keeping as close as possible the distance between:

    1. The center of gravity of the whole weapon and the center of gravity of the axis of the barrel.
    2. The center of gravity of the bolt assembly and the axis of the gas piston.
    3. The center of gravity of the barrel and the axis of the gas tube.
    4. The center of gravity of the bolt carrier and the center of gravity of the whole rifle.

    It's also interesting to note the Chinese claim a reliability rate equal to that of Kalashnikov's AK47/AKM/AK74 series.

    Accessories for the Type 95 include:

    - Magnified and unmagnified day optics with quick detachable mounts.
    - Nightvision and thermal sights with quick detachable mount.
    - Quick detachable 35mm grenade launcher that mounts to the forend.
    - Multi-purpose bayonet that can be used as a bayonet, field knife, wire cutter and dagger.

    The standard ball loading originally developed for the Type 95 is designated the DBP-87. According to Chinese engineers, this high-velocity cartridge was developed from the ground up as an armor-piercing load intended to defeat body armor. It's topped with a .236-inch 64-grain FMJ-BT projectile with a 22.6-grain armor-piercing core. The core's manufactured from hardened steel. Previous 7.62x39mm M43 ammunition featured a mild steel core.

    The 24.2mm-long projectile is loaded into a copper washed steel case. Overall cartridge length is 58mm and case length is 42.2mm. In profile, the 5.8x42mm DBP-87 cartridge somewhat resembles the Russian 5.45x39mm M74. It sports a similar sharp case taper to aid feeding and extraction. However, the 5.8x42mm's case neck is shorter.

    Muzzle velocity from the Type 95's 18.2-inch barrel is 3,050 fps. It clocks 3,182 fps out of the Type 95 Squad Automatic's longer 21.9-inch barrel.

    What's most impressive about this cartridge is its penetration. The PLA claims this load will penetrate a 10mm-thick hardened-steel plate 100% of the time at 310 meters, and a 3.5mm-hardened steel plate at 700 meters.

    Since its adoption, the Type 95 has become standard issue and seen service with Chinese peacekeepers in Haiti and security forces in Iraq.


    With its modern bullpup design, the Type 95 features a short-stroke gas system with a three-lug rotating bolt.

    The Good, The Bad

    The Type 95 has been in widespread service long enough now for the PLA to have formed an opinion on the rifle, and its cartridge. On the positive side, the rifle's relatively short and handy at just 29.3 inches and 7.1 pounds. It balances well and is quick handling, especially in tight quarters. Reliability and accuracy are good and the weapon itself is robust.

    But it's hardly perfect and there have been vocal complaints about a few of its shortcomings. One complaint from Chinese troops centered on annoying fumes and un-burnt powder particles ejected in close proximity to the shooter's face. The use of low-quality powder made the fume problem especially bad.

    The Chinese solution was to introduce a new load, the DBP-95, loaded with a cleaner-burning powder. In addition, the Chinese also took this opportunity to switch to a non-corrosive primer.

    It's believed that production of DBP-87 ammunition has ceased, although it'll remain in service until existing stocks are depleted. Technically, it's been replaced in Chinese service by the DBP-95.

    Complaints regarding the weapon itself generally revolve around the rifle's poor human engineering. The lead designer of this system, who was called out of retirement to head the project in 1992, has stated bluntly that his team was under a strict 2 1/2-year timeline (plus 2 years of field testing) to complete the design. He's said the weapon could have been much improved, if he'd been given more time.

    It should be noted, though, that the resources available to him were, in his words, "unlimited." He also stated the weapon had to be designed around the relatively poor-quality materials available and the inferior workmanship displayed by Chinese factory workers compared to the West.

    Due to the PLA's time constraints, the rifle has a very poorly placed selector lever. Poorly placed actually understates the problem. A Kalashnikov has a poorly placed selector. Instead, it would be hard to design a selector that was worse than what's mounted on the Type 95. It's placed on the left side of the butt, far out of reach. This severely handicaps PLA troops from quickly bringing their rifle into action.

    The soldier's solution is of course to simply leave the selector on either Semi or Auto with an empty chamber. Then, on contact, he simply runs the charging handle, which is much easier to reach. This, of course, is far from ideal.

    In addition, there have been complaints concerning the Type 95's trigger pull. This isn't unusual when it comes to bullpup-type rifles in general. Soldiers say it has a less-than-ideal spongy feel.

    There have also been complaints concerning the rifle's very short sight radius. This makes hitting at extended ranges with iron sights more difficult. Plus, there have been complaints concerning the optical rail - that it's not always machined within spec. Basic QC issues aren't unheard of.


    The Type 95's action is housed inside a synthetic shell. It's fitted with an adjustable gas system, easily accepts optical sights and feeds from 30-round synthetic magazines.

    Build Again

    Given the list of problems, the PLA has therefore undertaken a program to improve the Type 95. The lead designer of the Type 95 program, who's now retired, has stated that the project is being worked on by some of his students. Known goals for the program are to:

    1. Improve the rifle's ergonomics/controls.
    2. Chamber it for new ammunition with double the effective range.
    3. Add a quick-firing grenade launcher.

    Improving the rifle's ergonomics would include at the least an easy-to-reach and easy-to-manipulate selector. This would go a long way toward making the rifle more user friendly. It's possible that a bolt hold-open could be added, but that would dictate a new magazine as well.

    Another possibility is to change the ejection path for spent cases from out the right side to front ejection. This would allow the rifle to be fired off the left shoulder. But it should be understood that everyone's brought up right-handed in China. So all soldiers in the PLA are taught to shoot right-handed. However, the ability to shoot from the non-dominant shoulder's a very real tactical advantage.

    Whether the Chinese will go this far remains to be seen. We do know they've replaced the relatively light barrel with one that features a heavier profile. The action's also been redesigned for the new ammunition.

  2. #2
    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    25,061
    Thanks
    52
    Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    Speculations On Load Choice, Development
    (Editor's note: This is part 2 of a 2-part story about China's push to improve its Type 95. To read part 1, click here.)


    A sectioned view of the 5.8x42mm DBP-88's hardened-steel armor-piercing core. (Photo: TacticalGunFan)

    While it's fairly simple to theorize what the Chinese engineers might do to improve the basic Type 95, the big mystery surrounds what new cartridge it'll chamber.

    The simplest solution to improve the rifle's performance would be to retire the standard 64-grain 5.8x42mm DBP-87/95 loadings in favor of the 75-grain DBP-88 Heavy Ball loading.

    The DBP-88's a higher-pressure load developed for both the QBU-88 sniper rifle and QJY-88 GPMG. The Chinese list an effective range of 800 meters for the QBU-88 and 1,000 meters for the QJY-88. This would be the easiest solution if the People's Liberation Army (PLA) wishes to double the effective range from 400 to 800 meters.

    A switch to the DBP-88 Heavy Ball would also provide an increase in penetration. The latest Chinese ammunition designs have placed a great deal of emphasis on the penetration of modern body armor. The current-issue 5.8x21mm and 9x19mm military loads are both armor-piercing. As to be expected, the DBP-88's an armor-piercing load as well, with a hardened steel core. However, the core design's an improvement on the lighter DBP-87/95, and offers a step up in performance.


    One upgrade the Chinese may make is to have the Type 95 chamber its 5.8x42mm DBP-88 Heavy Ball round. Left to right: 5.45x39mm, 5.8x42mm, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm. (Photo: TacticalGunFan)

    A Closer Look

    An examination of a Heavy ball round produced at Factory 945 in 2005 showed it to be loaded using a copper-washed steel case with a Berdan primer. Seated into the case was a FMJ-BT projectile with a copper-washed steel jacket. No color code is utilized.

    When pulled and measured, the projectile showed a .235-inch (5.99mm) diameter with a length of 26.1mm. While Chinese sources list projectile weight at 75 grains, the example TacticalGunFan weighed came in at a lighter 70.3 grains. The projectile doesn't have a cannelure.

    A sectioning of one projectile revealed a .6mm-thick steel jacket covering a lead liner surrounding a forged-steel core with a sharp-pointed nose and a lead plug in the base. The 20.27mm-long hardened steel core is produced from a carbon/chrome alloy and has a weight of approximately 26 grains.

    Design-wise, this projectile's quite different from the standard DBP-87 ball round in both its shape and location of the steel penetrator. The PLA claims this load will penetrate a 3mm-thick A3 steel plate at 1,000 meters. If true, it would indicate this load outperforms the PLA's older 7.62x54R Type 53 round in regards to steel-plate penetration.

    Penetration of this load at common infantry engagement distances would be impressive, especially compared to the US 5.56x45mm M855 ball round or the Russian 5.45x39mm 7N6 ball load. Such a load might be a viable threat to modern military hard plates as well.

    It's also possible the Chinese could be in development of an entirely new cartridge to improve the range, as well as the terminal performance and penetration. During testing conducted by the PLA, the 5.8x42mm DBP-87 load was outperformed by both the 5.56x45mm SS109 and 5.45x39mm 7N6 regarding terminal performance.

    Testing was performed using both artificial medium and dogs that weighed approximately 35 pounds. At the time, the Chinese felt the tradeoff of poorer terminal performance for increased penetration was acceptable. Whether this remains the case isn't known. However, what can be certain is the newer generation of recently developed US intermediate cartridges, such as the 6.8x43mm SPC and 6.5x38mm Grendel, hasn't been lost on the Chinese.

    While it's almost certain the Chinese will simply hotrod their existing 5.8x42mm, they could indeed have developed an entirely new cartridge.

    It should be noted, though, that actually extending the effective range of the rifle from 400 to 800 meters will require more than just a new load or cartridge. The standard Type 95 iron sights are only useful out to approximately 500 meters on a known-distance range.

    To take advantage of such a drastic increase in range would require a magnified optic. It's foreseeable the Chinese would develop and field a 3x or 4x fixed-magnification day optic with a BDC calibrated for this new load/cartridge.


    A comparison (left to right) of a 5.56x45mm M855, 5.8x42mm DBP-88 and 5.45x39mm 7N6 projectiles. (Photo: TacticalGunFan)

    Grenade Possibilities

    The desire for a quick-firing grenade launcher is also interesting. This piece would attach to the front of the weapon. One mockup observed was magazine fed, manually operated and approximately 25mm. However, further details aren't currently unknown.

    Obviously, a quick-firing, magazine-fed grenade launcher would improve the firepower of the basic PLA infantry squad. However, it would also drastically increase the weight of the weapon and the soldier's ammunition load. All it would take would be the addition of 3 pounds to turn a light and handy weapon into a sluggish dog.

    The West will get its first look at the new design Oct. 1, when it's revealed at the National Day parade.

  3. #3
    Postman vector7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Where it's quiet, peaceful and everyone owns guns
    Posts
    21,663
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 73 Times in 68 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    CHINA'S NEW 5.8x42MM
    WEAPONS COMPLEX


    By David M. Fortier 2003

    As a child of the Cold War it's difficult not to think of the U.S.S.R. as our primary threat. However times change, today the U.S.S.R. only exists in our memory, and now we're friends with the Russians. While it's interesting to keep an eye on Russian small arms developments, they seem to have an abundance of gifted designers, there is another country we should be more concerned with, China. Unfortunately whereas there's a wealth of information on Soviet/Russian small arms the same is not true of modern Chinese weapons. So I decided to delve behind the bamboo to see just what the Chinese have been up too. What I found may surprise you.

    The Chinese began extensive research and development of domestic designs as early as 1958. This led to the 1st (Type 63 and Type 74) and then 2nd (Type 81 and Type 87) generations of Chinese small arms. In the last 20 years especially, since the Open Door policy, China has made significant progress in small arms development. This has culminated in the design and adoption of their unique 5.8x42mm weapons complex. A system, they claim, outperforms both the current NATO 5.56x45 SS109 and Russian 5.45x39 7N6 cartridges.

    To begin our look at modern Chinese small arms we have to go back to 1958. It was at this time that the Chinese undertook extensive research and development work to improve their small arms. This was based on their combat experience with Soviet small arms, full power battle rifle cartridges, as well as the less powerful 6.5 Arisaka and 7.62x25 sub-machineguns. At this time they recognized the potential of the new intermediate M43 7.62x39 cartridge and admired the reliability of the Kalashnikov design.

    However they were not impressed by the AK-47's accuracy or ergonomics.

    This led to the development of the Type 63 rifle (incorrectly identified in the West as the Type 68) and the Type 74 Squad Auto which represent the First Generation of domestically designed Chinese small arms. Not a battle rifle nor true assault rifle the Type 63 was outclassed by the M-16 during combat operations in Vietnam.

    Seeing the changes in modern warfare the Chinese went back to the drawing board. The Second Generation of Chinese small arms is seen in the Type 81 weapons series. The goal of the design team of the Type 81 rifle was to provide a modern assault rifle with the reliability of the Kalashnikov, but with superior accuracy and ergonomics. The result was a rugged and reliable rifle with a few features not offered on Mikhail's Avtomat. These included a bolt holdopen, a selector lever accessible by the operator's thumb, an integral capacity to launch rifle grenades, and an adjustable gas system. Overall the Type 81 series is well thought out, reliable, and chambered for the venerable 7.62x39 cartridge.

    However just as they were quick to appreciate the 7.62x39 intermediate cartridge, as soon as the M-16 rifle appeared in Vietnam the Chinese recognized the advantages of the 5.56x45 cartridge. While they took note of its cartridge the Chinese were not impressed with the reliability/durability of the M-16 rifle. Noting the advantages of the small, high velocity round they began extensive research and theoretical studies based on their combat observations of the war in Vietnam. Their goal was no simple one.

    They desired to find the ideal caliber to satisfy the Chinese military requirements for use in assault rifles out to medium ranges (400m) as well as in the supporting role of a machinegun (up to 1000m). Their intention was not just to build a series of weapons based on an existing cartridge but rather build a weapons complex using the IDEAL cartridge. This "Universal caliber" has always been a Holy Grail for which many have sought but none had found.

    After extensive calculations they concluded that the ideal caliber would be 5.8mm, 6mm, or 6.2mm. They then designed a vast assortment of prototype cartridges for use in comparison testing. This is similar to our own SAW project which tested over 1000 configurations in calibers ranging from 5.56 to 7.62. Our final result was the 6x45mm SAW round which was never adopted due to logistical reasons. This shows that the U.S. and Chinese designers came to a similar determination as to the ideal caliber. Based on their test results the Chinese came to the final conclusion that the 5.8mm best fit their needs. The result is their new small caliber, high velocity 5.8x42mm cartridge. Designed from the ground up to fit the needs of their weapons complex, this cartridge is produced in 3 different ball loadings. A standard loading for use in assault rifles, a heavy projectile loading for use in their GPMG, and a specialty loading for use in sniper rifles.

    The standard loading features a 64 grain FMJBT projectile with a 22.6 grain AP core loaded into a Berdan primed and lacquer coated steel case. Overall cartridge length is 58mm. Case length is 42.2mm, and the projectile is 24.2mm long. The cartridge case somewhat resembles the Russian 5.45x39 in that it's tapered, however the case neck is shorter. It bears no outward resemblance to the 5.56x45. While straightwall cases like the 5.56 are inherently more accurate, tapered cases aid feeding and extraction. The projectile also exhibits substantial sectional density, similar to the 5.45x39.

    Muzzle velocity from the Type 95's 18.2 inch barrel is 3,050 fps. Out of the Type 95 Squad Auto's 21.9 inch barrel it bumps up to 3,182 fps. The specimen I examined was made at Factory 71 in 1996.

    Although the Chinese had developed their ideal cartridge they still had one major hurdle to overcome, the Chinese military. During the last Sino-Japanese war the Chinese had made extensive use of captured 6.5 Arisaka rifles and machineguns. Combat experience had left them unimpressed by this small bore cartridge's effectiveness, especially at long range. Due to this the Chinese military wanted nothing to due with a small caliber cartridge intended for use in machineguns as well as rifles.

    So in order to convince the military, the Chinese Armament Bureau produced a quantity of transitional 5.8x42 assault rifles. These were based upon the Type 81 and were designated the Type 87. They were then submitted to the military for extensive testing and field trials against the existing 7.62x39 weapons. During these trials the 5.8x42 weapons outperformed the 7.62x39 weapons in every way. They proved so superior that the Chinese military adopted the new cartridge for use in its next generation of small arms.

    With the problem of a suitable cartridge out of the way, during the late 1980's the Chinese set to work designing the weapons to use it. The result of their work is not just a new assault rifle but an entire weapons complex. This includes an assault rifle (Type 95), Light Squad Auto (Type 95), Sniper rifle (Type KBU88), and surprisingly, a belt fed GPMG (Type QJY88). Obviously following the current trend in small arms development they chose to use the bullpup configuration (except for the GPMG).

    I was told that in designing the Type 95 they took a long hard look at the SVD Dragunov design. This can be seen in the Type 95's 3 lug rotating bolt, carrier, and its adjustable short stroke piston gas system which is similar conceptually to the SVD's. The main features of these new weapons are their extensive use of high tensile aluminum and modern high impact synthetic materials coupled with improved human engineering. In addition they feature cold hammer forged barrels for superior accuracy. The design emphasizes on keeping as close as possible the distance between:
    1. The center of gravity of the whole weapon and the center of gravity of the axis of the barrel.
    2. The center of gravity of the bolt assembly and the axis of the gas piston.
    3. The center of gravity of the barrel and the axis of the gas tube.
    4. the center of gravity of the bolt carrier and the center of gravity of the whole gun.
    They state, "This design brings a combined effect of compact structure, minimizing the supplementary force of inertia, ensuring a stable and smooth movement of the bolt carrier, minimizing the overall weight of the rifle, increasing shooting accuracy, and promoting reliability." It is also interesting to note that they claim a reliability rate equal to that of the Kalashnikov. That in and of itself would be quite a feat.
    These weapons were designed to use the following accessories:
    1. Fixed or variable power telescopic sights with quick detachable mount.
    2. Their latest star light night vision scope with quick detachable mount.
    3. Quick detachable 35mm grenade launcher that mounts to the forend.
    4. Multi-purpose bayonet which can be used as a bayonet, field knife, wire cutter, or a dagger.
    While I personally do not care for bullpup style rifles, the Type 95 appears ergonomic and well balanced. With a length of just 29.3 inches and tipping the scales at 7.1 pounds its both handy and light. The rear sight is mounted on an M-16 style carrying handle, which also accepts optical sights. The front sight assembly reminds one of the familiar AK unit. The charging handle is located inside the carrying handle, AR-10 style, and is ambidextrous. Feed is from 30 round synthetic magazines. The weapon is intended to be effective out to 400 meters. It should be noted that though that the Type 95, while modern, is still fairly conventional. Whereas the Russians began work on weapon systems that canceled out recoil through mechanical design back in the 1960's the Type 95 is nothing out of the ordinary. Compared to the AN-94 Nikonov, adopted by the Russians in 1994 to eventually replace the AK-74M, the Type 95 is actually rather mundane. However while the AN-94 is a brilliant rifle that must be handled and shot to be fully appreciated the Chinese have developed more than just a rifle.

    What makes it interesting is everything they've developed to complement the Type 95 rifle.

    Support weapons start with the Type 95 Squad Auto. This light automatic weapon shares the same bolt assembly, trigger assembly, upper and lower receiver, and magazines with the rifle. For its fire support role it's equipped with a longer, heavier barrel to which a bipod is directly mounted. To increase its practical rate of fire 75 round drum magazines are issued for it, although the standard 30 rounders will also work. In my experience Chinese drums are usually quite noisy though, as they allow the rounds to slap back and forth. Weighing in at just 8.7 lbs (!) it's more of a machinerifle, along the lines of the British Light Support Weapon, rather than our own M249 SAW. It's intended to be effective out to 600 meters.

    For reaching out and touching someone there is the KBU88 sniper rifle. It's equipped with a 25.1" hammer forged barrel, and the carrying handle has been replaced with a 3-9x variable telescope. The optics feature an illuminated reticle with aiming holdover points in 100 meter increments. Fold down backup iron sights are also provided. An integral folding bipod with legs individually adjustable for height is attached to the barrel just in front of the handguard. Feed is from 20 or 30 round magazines. When tested against the Type 85 7.62x54R sniper rifle (SVD Dragunov) the KBU88 outperformed it in accuracy, higher hit probability at long range, was quicker to get into action, had less recoil, a larger ammunition load capacity, and was lighter in weight thus increasing the mobility of the sniper. We would consider it a Designated Marksman's Rifle, rather than a true sniper rifle. In this role it would prove quite useful on the modern battlefield and would be capable of providing support in manners impossible with a bolt action precision rifle. When mated to its dedicated sniper load the KBU88 is intended to be effective out to 800 meters.

    The latest member of the 5.8mm family is the QJY88 GPMG. This project began in July 1989 and after extensive testing in freezing cold, hot desert, windy, and sandy conditions to eliminate defects, it was formally adopted in July 1999. Feed is from 200 round belts. The feedway is equipped with 3 rollers, and the feeding pawl also has a roller, to minimize friction during feeding and aid reliability. It's equipped with a bipod for use in the LMG role but can also be tripod mounted for sustained fire use. The tripod is equipped with a recoil absorbing device to enhance accuracy and quickly converts for A.A. use. For long service life the core of the barrel is hardened more than the rest during heat treating. Also a special pattern of rifling is used and the chrome plating carefully kept to .18-.28mm to increase barrel service life. The Chinese claim it to be very simple, reliable, and mobile due to its light weight (only 26 lbs WITH tripod), coupled with long range and a high hit probability. With its dedicated Heavy ball loading the QJY88 is intended to be effective all the way out to 1000 meters.

    Sound impressive? Well the question you're all asking right now is, exactly how well does this new Chinese 5.8x42 round stack up against our 5.56x45 and the Russian 5.45x39? Well we won't leave you hanging. I was recently able to get my hands on (don't ask) some PLA documents containing ballistic test data and the results follow. Testing was conducted using a 5.45x39 AK-74 and 7N6 ball ammunition, a 5.56x45 FNC and SS109 ball and P112 AP, and a Type 95 with 5.8x42 ball. Accuracy testing was conducted out to 600m between the three weapons. Projectile Time of Flight was recorded out to 800m. 3.5mm NATO spec hardened steel plates were shot at 640 and 700m. A 10mm hardened steel plate was shot at 310m. Finally, anesthetized livestock between the weight of 26-44 pounds were shot at a distance of 90m. All the information recorded from these tests is contained in the accompanying charts. For comparison I also included one chart on the performance of typical military rifles against NATO 3.5mm steel plate from tests performed by the USMC Firepower Division in Quantico, VA in the early 1980's.

    The Chinese test results indicate that their new 5.8x42mm cartridge is intended to provide a substantial increase in effective range and penetration over the M43 7.62x39. It's now possible for high velocity small bore military cartridges to place fire at medium ranges without the weight and recoil penalties of the older full power cartridges. While obviously lacking the punch of a 7.62x51 at long range the 5.56x45 has none the less proven itself to be capable of superb accuracy at 600m. This is something the 7.62x39 is not capable of and has not been lost on the Chinese (or in recent days Afghan terrorists). Their 5.8x42 ball round is designed to surpass the performance of the 5.56x45 SS109, including at long range.

    That the Chinese wish to be able to extend the practical effective range of their small arms can also be seen in the Type 95's ability to easily mount optical sights. While we don't yet have any specifics on the dedicated sniper load for the KBU88 sniper rifle, that it outperformed the 7.62x54R SVD out to 1000m speaks for itself. In Russian service the SVD, or 'Oar' as it's affectionately known, is extremely popular due to its effectiveness.

    Against steel plate the 5.8 easily outperformed the 5.45 7N6 ball loading as well as the 5.56 SS109. It equaled the penetration of the 5.56 P112 AP loading while providing greater retained energy. It should be remembered though that the 5.45 7N6 loading has a mild steel core and a more even test would have been to use the newer 7N10 High Penetration round.


    While the 5.8 retained more energy and velocity downrange there is a downside to a light weight, small diameter projectile with high penetration. Such rounds can zip right through a man without doing significant damage. This was first seen on the Italian Front during World War I when it was common for soldiers hit through the lungs at long range by 6.5mm rounds to recover in a matter of weeks. Recently American troops witnessed this first hand in Mogadishu, and now in Afghanistan, when hits with M855/SS109 ammunition produced no immediate visual results.

    This was verified in the livestock testing performed by the Chinese. Here the 5.45 7N6 load showed what it was designed to do and produced significantly larger wounds than either the 5.56 SS109 or the 5.8x42.

    However the range here was short, only 90m. While the Chinese were impressed by, and commented on the tremendous close range wound capacity of the 5.45 7N6 loading they also stated that by 600m its accuracy, penetration, and wound capability had dropped off significantly due to its lightweight 52 grain projectile. However they also felt the 5.45x39 to be a very economical cartridge to manufacture. The Chinese were impressed by the 5.56x45 SS109 and felt that it was effective up to 600m. However they felt that it had the disadvantages of high chamber pressures and because it utilized brass cartridge cases was not economical to produce.

    While the 5.8 was superior in penetration to the 5.56 SS109 the same was not true of accuracy. That the new Type 95/5.8x42mm combination was more accurate than the 70's vintage Russian AK-74/5.45x39mm combo is really no great surprise. While the AK-74 is more accurate than the 7.62x39 AKM, at the time of its design Soviet doctrine relied on massed automatic fire rather than accuracy.

    By switching to a short stroke gas system the Chinese intended on gaining an increase in accuracy over the Kalashnikov while maintaining the same level of reliability. It appears that they have accomplished this. However the FNC/5.56x45mm combo easily out shot the new Chinese system. Straightwall case designs, such as the 5.56x45, tend to be more accurate than tapered case designs such as the 5.45x39 and 5.8x42. The trade-off being that tapered cases feed and extract easier.

    While the 5.8 exhibits higher retained velocity and energy in their test results compared to the 5.56 SS109, the difference is small.

    Why did the Chinese bother with developing an entirely new assault rifle cartridge when they could have simply adopted the 5.56x45 is a question I'm sure many will ask. The only reason I've been given is that the PLA has a defensive doctrine and if China were invaded their unique caliber weapons would prohibit an attacking force from utilizing captured weapons.

    I will let you decide for yourselves on the effectiveness of this new cartridge based on the accompanying data. How China's new 5.8x42mm series of weapons fares in service or combat remains to be seen. One thing is certain though, the Kalashnikov's service with the PLA appears to be coming to an end. Acknowledgments: Much thanks to Dave Brown at Sierra Bullets for his patience and help making sense of the ballistic data in its original form, John Miller for supplying the 5.8x42 round used in the photographs, and to Mark Vorobiev for a Russian point of view.References:

    Bolotin, David.
    SOVIET SMALL ARMS AND AMMUNITION.
    Finnish Arms Museum Foundation, Hyvinka, Finland. 1995.

    Cutshaw, Charlie.
    THE NEW WORLD OF RUSSIAN SMALL ARMS & AMMO.
    Paladin Press, Boulder, CO. 1998.

    Harris, C.E..
    "The M-16A2: New World Standard For Infantry Rifles" GUN DIGEST, 40th Edition. DBI Books Inc, Northbrook, IL. 1986.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



  4. #4
    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    25,061
    Thanks
    52
    Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    An interesting read. Thanks for posting it!

  5. #5
    Expatriate American Patriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A Banana Republic, Central America
    Posts
    48,612
    Thanks
    82
    Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    I suggest you practice Halo... then you do the real thing.

    /chuckles
    Libertatem Prius!


    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




  6. #6
    Postman vector7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Where it's quiet, peaceful and everyone owns guns
    Posts
    21,663
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 73 Times in 68 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    I've been looking everywhere for this article online as I have the magazine but cannot find the article posted anywhere.

    Most of the information contained in the article are on the posts above in this thread.

    However, I wanted to post David M. Fortier's closing thoughts on page 16
    of Shotgun News, December 5, 2005 in his article "FIVE POINT EIGHT BY WHAT?" in conjunction with recent developments:

    What do you think of this new cartridge?

    It appears to be a straight forward design well suited for use in modern automatic weapons. It's obviously well-suited for manufacture on a huge scale. The components used will make it reasonably inexpensive and for a country with limited resources to produce.

    The ballistic performance of the cartridge is very good with perhaps a slight edge over the 5.56x45mm M855.

    Penetration is very good and substantially better than the M855 round. Terminal performance? That's the million dollar question isn't it?

    For the type of combat operations U.S. forces are currently engaged in (thin bodied insurgents usually without body armor) our M855 is probably superior.

    For use against U.S forces that are lavishly equipped with body armor, the 5.8x42mm DBP84 would be an excellent choice.

    For all of you wondering why the Chinese went through all the trouble of designing a domestic cartridge instead of just adopting the 5.56mm or the 5.45x39mm, there is a simple answer. After exhaustive testing the PLA decided both of these foreign cartridges were less than adequate for their needs.

    Is there more to this story? Why of course! In addition to the DBP84 cartridge the PLA have adopted at least one, possibly two heavy ball versions of the 5.8x42mm. One load is for use thin the QJY88 GPMG, and has a claimed effective range of 1000 meters.

    There is also an unconfirmed dedicated sniper load for use in the KBU88 sniper rifle. This has an effective range of 800 meters. These loads are where things begin to get interesting! Unfortunately, further exploration behind the Bamboo Curtain will have to wait for another time.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



  7. #7
    Postman vector7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Where it's quiet, peaceful and everyone owns guns
    Posts
    21,663
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 73 Times in 68 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    Chinese Type 95 (QBZ95) 5.8x42mm Assault Rifle

    9:06 PM Qamar 2 comments







    The bullpup Type 95 (QBZ95) 5.8x42mm Assault Rifle is operational with the People's Liberation Army, Chinese People's Armed Police, Chinese para-military police and People's Liberation Army Special Operations Forces.

































    The bullpup Type 95 (QBZ95) uses 5.8x42mm round which according to the Chinese sources has outperformed the both the NATO's 5.56x45mm and Russian 5.45x39mm rounds in penetration , flatter trajectory, velocity and energy downrange.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



  8. #8
    Postman vector7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Where it's quiet, peaceful and everyone owns guns
    Posts
    21,663
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 73 Times in 68 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level


    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



  9. #9
    Postman vector7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Where it's quiet, peaceful and everyone owns guns
    Posts
    21,663
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 73 Times in 68 Posts

    Default Re: PLA Moves Its Assault Rifle To Next Level

    Chinese Type 95 (QBZ95) 5.8x42mm Assault Rifle

    9:06 PM MJ Qamar 3 comments






    The bullpup Type 95 (QBZ95) 5.8x42mm Assault Rifle is operational with the People's Liberation Army, Chinese People's Armed Police, Chinese para-military police and People's Liberation Army Special Operations Forces.





































    The bullpup Type 95 (QBZ95) uses 5.8x42mm round which according to the Chinese sources has outperformed the both the NATO's 5.56x45mm and Russian 5.45x39mm rounds in penetration , flatter trajectory, velocity and energy downrange.

    Posted in: China,Peoples Liberation Army,QBZ-95

    You might also like:

    Type 95 (QBZ 95) 5.8x42mm Assault Rifle In Desert Exercise
    People's Armed Police Force (CAPF) With QBZ-95 Sniper Rifle
    Chinese Naval Special Operations Forces onboard Type 054 ...
    Chinese Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) Team

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •