Scenarios of a nuclear war

[Honza Malina]

From Douey-Rheims Catholic Bible - the oldest traditional English translation available today [New Testament published in English in 1582]

1 And there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night, and said to him: Rabbi, we know that thou art come a teacher from God; for no man can do these signs which thou dost, unless God be with him. 3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Note:

5 "Unless a man be born again"... By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit. 7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again. 8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

--------------
More details about the Catholic Faith:


51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 52 If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. 53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Note from 1582 publication: 54 "Eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood"... To receive the body and blood of Christ, is a divine precept, insinuated in this text; which the faithful fulfil, though they receive but in one kind; because in one kind they receive both body and blood, which cannot be separated from each other. Hence, life eternal is here promised to the worthy receiving, though but in one kind. Ver. 52. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh for the life of the world. Ver. 58. He that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. Ver. 59. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. 59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.


--------
To answer about communism:

I don't practise pacifism, what Dick says is not what I have been trying to explain.

What I said is that we must fight but we have to deny ourselves in order to save our soul, for as Our Lord says, the flesh counts for nothing - the spirit counts.


The Communists want to destroy the belief and to make people subordinate to them forever without any Faith, which to communists would, give extra weapon to control them, since when people don't think that God will punish those who are evil and protect those who live according to God's Commandments.

Our bodies are only temples of our immortal soul and it is the soul that we must protect. By fighting the communists and diying free we will protect the soul, as the Holy Crusades and Spain 1936 show clearly.



I have never excluded action as some may have implied here.

I am on my website promoting nothing as pacifism, that is not Catholic.

Catholics always fought wars and were on the right side, on the side of God.

The nuclear attack will comes and it will be horrible, no matter what you may think.

Our Blessed Mother said so in Fatima in 1917.

Through my Faith I know that this is correct.


Many on this forum don't believe the extent of the nuclear attack what the Russians have ready for America, but it will come.
I know because of my Faith and because of what I know about the communists - they don't do half-jobs, they do it properly the first time so there would be no second time.

Remember that.

God Bless.

Honza

P.S. I am not trying to force anybody into the Catholic Faith, I am only stating the truth. By doing so, perhaps some will realise what is at stake and perhaps some will become even more angry. I am confident that once we are at war and many are dead, that the remnant will come to sense perhaps even because of what is said here. If it is one person, the silent one who just reads, it is a victory for Our Lord.

[Sean Osborne]

Enough is enough.

Honza,

I know you are a good guy, but enough is enough. You have been asked to cease and desist from posting what many, including myself, deem "offensive" religious material in this thread. It is decidedly divisive and I, for one, will not tolerate it further.

What part of "I strongly suggest we leave this specific issue right here and move on with the purpose of this thread topic" did you not understand?

It's decison time. I'll be back.

[Honza Malina]

Enough is enough.

Honza,

I know you are a good guy, but enough is enough. You have been asked to cease and desist from posting what many, including myself, deem "offensive" religious material in this thread. It is decidedly divisive and I, for one, will not tolerate it further.

What part of "I strongly suggest we leave this specific issue right here and move on with the purpose of this thread topic" did you not understand?

It's decison time. I'll be back.

Sean, are you trying to say that I can't say what I know is the truth just because people have diferent beliefs ?

I am trying to tell the reasons why we are in this turmoil faced with nuclear war, based on facts, including the Fatima 1917 apparition of Our Lady BVM.

If you think this is wrong to post here, that is your choice but I won't be just silenced, they've done it at TFP because I brought the facts there.

If my word doesn't mean anything or if you think you know better, wouldn't it be better for your to win by argument than by threats of silencing me ?

God be with you.

In Christ and Mary

Honza

P.S. It says bellow your post that you would take the consequences - you honestly think that I will give up just because you can tell me to take a hike ?
Our Lord was many times opposed, but did He give up ?

I grewed up in bad society run by evil men, I don't give up, sorry.

[American Patriot]

I don't practise pacifism, what Dick says is not what I have been trying to explain.

Actually... it's "Rick" with an R

[Ryan Ruck]

Honza,
Trust me. No one wants to keep you from expressing yourself.

The problem is that you are just discussing religion in the wrong forum. That's all.

A previous board most of us participated on had big problems with religion being brought into the wrong topics. It caused many problems there and, none of us want to see the same happen here.

The Russia forum is for specific discussion about Russia, its capabilities, its plans, etc. I've moved this thread over to our Religion forum (which could certainly use your traffic by the way!). And, I'm starting up another thread in the "Miscellaneous Trans-Asian Axis Topics" forum to discuss everyone's take on "Rocket Day".

Believe me, I understand where you are coming from with your message. I may personally not agree with everything you post but, I definitely want to give you the opportunity to discuss it and get your point across!

We all enjoy your regular contributions to the site and would most definitely hate to see you, or any member, go because of a difference of opinion!

[Sean Osborne]

Sean, are you trying to say that I can't say what I know is the truth just because people have diferent beliefs ?

Honza,

As I have always maintained, ones faith is an individual personal choice.

My issue with what you posted in this thread is specifically when you state that individuals are not covered by the Blood of Christ and thus the forgiveness of sin because they are not "Catholic".

Originally posted by Honza Malina:

The only safety for your soul is in becoming traditional Catholic, praying Rosary and protecting your immortal soul from being destroyed by these servants of the devil.

...the only religion correctly interpretting the Holy Scripture is the Catholic Church

...Protestants [equal] man-made religions... to save these poor souls before they perish

...One day people who are not Catholics may find it useful, when perhaps they realize their errors of life, get Baptised to the Catholic Faith ... and that way all their sins will be wiped out at that moment.

YOUR position is just plain WRONG, and as I demonstrated earlier by citing John 3:16, it is a non-Biblical point of view. Salvation is a gift of grace from God through Christ Jesus and an individual personal choice of free will and not something given or granted by any "church" on the face of this earth. Period.

There are many non-Catholic Christian's on this forum as well as TFP and such views as you expressed regarding salvation will cause divisiveness and arguments that neither this forum or TFP want or need to occur in keeping with the good functioning order of the forums and discussion of related topics. Some here, and I include myself, might view these views as insults to their own faith in Christ. I do. I am neither Catholic, nor am I a Protestant, I am a believing Christian. I suggest you deal with this fact... and decide to leave it well alone.

Your strident anti-Communism is very commendable, and many of the secular points you make are dead on target. However, if you want people to read your material and take your anti-Communism stance seriously then you need to keep such non-Biblical issues to yourself.

You will drive erstwhile allies away and sideline the relevence of your anti-Communist views if you persist in making such anti-Protestant, non-Bibical commentary.

[Aplomb]

Scenario I
Russian nuclear bombardment of America is in progress, decimating the country
by nuclear, biological and chemical attacks, which first came disguised as "Islamic terrorism". The ground troops are only sent after the radiation is lower and the troops can enter the territory safely.

There was a man in a small town, who surrounded by a group of Catholics, understood what will happen and didn't listen to what the Church in hands of "progressive forces" told him to think.

He was ready to protect his family and help those who were willing to quit their hedonistic un-Godly lifestyle and learn the lesson of humility. But such people ridiculed this because it was "too extreme", these people simply didn't believe
that Russian "former" communists could be capable of such brutality and that
they would in fact attack the United States and start the nuclear holocaust.

This is how the work begins and this particular religious belief is the basis for the writing that Honza has done. Therefore, it is on-topic to include his religious beliefs explaining his perspective as to end time events or nuclear war causes. There are lots of verses in the Bible. John 3:16 may be a good start, but if that was all there was to Christianity, why all the excess scriptures. There are many different denominations within Christianity as well as cults due to a myriad of interpretations of the scriptures. Honza holds one view strongly. Sean holds yet another just as strongly. I'd like to see both Sean and Honza continue their intriguing threads. None of us here sees things exactly the same way. I choose not to be offended by what you are writing Honza. Or you either, Sean. I"m looking forward to further reading that is informative and insightful from both of you. Though both of you consider me lost from your perspectives, I want to understand what you have to share. This forum is designed for such freedom of speech concerning religion.

[Honza Malina]

The use of Russia as the tool of chastisement of the World by God was told to us by Our Blessed Mother at Fatima, Portugal in 1917.

Now many people don't know the message and the miracle of the sun that accompanied it [70 thousand people saw it so it cannot be denied].

The message is this:

...To save them [poor sinners who are on the road to hell], God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace.

The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse war will break out during the reign of Pius XI.

When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions against the Church and against the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays.

If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church.

The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.

--------------------------
Explanation:

The general Message of Fatima is not complicated. Its requests are for prayer, reparation, repentance, and sacrifice, and the abandonment of sin. Before Our Lady appeared to the three shepherd children, Lucy, Francisco and Jacinta, the Angel of Peace visited them. The Angel prepared the children to receive the Blessed Virgin Mary, and his instructions are an important aspect of the Message that is often overlooked.

The Angel demonstrated to the children the fervent, attentive, and composed manner in which we should all pray, and the reverence we should show toward God in prayer. He also explained to them the great importance of praying and making sacrifices in reparation for the offenses committed against God. He told them: "Make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication, for the conversion of sinners." In his third and final apparition to the children, the Angel gave them Holy Communion, and demonstrated the proper way to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist: all three children knelt to receive Communion; and Lucy was given the Sacred Host on the tongue and the Angel shared the Blood of the Chalice between Francisco and Jacinta.

Our Lady stressed the importance of praying the Rosary in each of Her apparitions, asking the children to pray the Rosary every day for peace. Another principal part of the Message of Fatima is devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart, which is terribly outraged and offended by the sins of humanity, and we are lovingly urged to console Her by making reparation. She showed Her Heart, surrounded by piercing thorns (which represented the sins against Her Immaculate Heart), to the children, who understood that their sacrifices could help to console Her.

The children also saw that God is terribly offended by the sins of humanity, and that He desires each of us and all mankind to abandon sin and make reparation for their crimes through prayer and sacrifice. Our Lady sadly pleaded: "Do not offend the Lord our God any more, for He is already too much offended!"

The children were also told to pray and sacrifice themselves for sinners, in order to save them from hell. The children were briefly shown a vision of hell, after which Our Lady told them: "You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace."
She said that if people did not stop offending God, He would punish the world severely by means of war, famine, persecution of the Church, and persecution of the Holy Father.

To prevent these chastisements, Our Lady offered a remedy: She would return to ask for the Consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart and the Communion of Reparation on the Five First Saturdays. If Her requests were heeded, there would be peace. If not, Russia’s errors would spread throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church, the Holy Father to suffer much, martyrdom of the good and the annihilation of various nations.

Our Lady indicated to us the specific root of all the troubles in the world, the one that causes world wars and such terrible suffering: sin. She then gave a solution, first to individual people, then to the Church’s leaders. God asks each one of us to stop offending Him. We must pray, especially the Rosary.

By this frequent prayer of the Rosary, we will get the graces we need to overcome sin. God wants us to have devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and to work to spread this devotion throughout the world. Our Lady said, "My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God." If we wish to go to God, we have a sure way to Him through true devotion to the Immaculate Heart of His Mother.



When Sister Lucy questioned Our Lord as to why He would not convert Russia without the solemn public consecration of that nation specifically, Jesus answered:

Because I want My whole Church to acknowledge that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, so that it may extend its homage later on, and put the devotion to This Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart.

Thus, we see that the conversion of Russia cannot take place unless and until the Pope and bishops consecrate specifically Russia, because God has reserved this grace – this special grace – to this special act of honor and reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Jesus does this because He wants to establish throughout the world, in the hearts and minds of the faithful, the importance of devotion to His Mother’s Immaculate Heart.
Devotion to the Immaculate Heart is central to the Fatima Message.

God determined that the Consecration of Russia and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays be the means of implementing this devotion throughout the world, and gave this task to His Pope and bishops and to individual souls to practice and promote this devotion.

In order to move ever closer to Her, and therefore to Her Son, Our Lady stressed the importance of praying at least five decades of the Rosary daily. She asked us to wear the Brown Scapular. And we must make sacrifices, especially the sacrifice of doing our daily duty, in reparation for the sins committed against Our Lord and Our Lady. She also stressed the necessity of prayers and sacrifices to save poor sinners from hell.

The Message of Fatima, to individual souls, is summarized in these things.
Besides these general points, given in the Fatima Message over 6 months, Our Lady confided a Secret to the three shepherd children on July 13, 1917. This Secret was meant for all Catholics, but was to be given to them later (at the latest, in 1960) since no one was prepared to understand it all in 1917.

In her Third and Fourth Memoirs, which were both written in 1941, Sister Lucy revealed to a wider audience the first two parts of the Secret. The third part of the Secret – or, as it is called, the Third Secret – was written down for the first time between January 2 and January 9, 1944.

-----
Taken from the Fatima Crusader website of Fr. Nicolas Gruner.


It has everything to do with Russia, it is essential message and has everything to do with that unfortunate still communist country.

If you think this is not correct, prove it - there are 70 thousand people who saw the miracle of the sun in Fatima in 1917, and countless other prophecies, apparitions of Our Lady BVM and so on.

Claiming that this is not true only offends God more.

Please reconsider, re-think, or your soul is in grave danger.

God Bless you all.

Honza

[samizdat]

it is called baptism of blood [if they are killed] or desire [- if they die of natural causes].


Sure like Dimas. (the good thief) I'm quite certain Dimas received the body and blood of Christ by Jesus Himself, after death, before judgement. Honza- has Jesus called you to be a priest?


You need to learn to speak in parables, and practice humility and charity. If you are able and chosen, I'm sure you can handle it. Maybe you could heal the schisms. Peter and Paul did.


Make us all slaves of them.

- Nobody can make you a slave but yourself. Don't let fear- (anger,indignation,sorrow or pain) make you a slave. Perfect your love-perfect love casts out fear. Perfection, as love is a degree. Greater love hath no man than this- to lay down his life for his friends.

"He was ready to protect his family "

Im not sure you got this entirely. What I mean is if invasion forces just blew up the entire city of Stuebenville, Ohio because 3 guys decided to play wyatt earp and refused to give up their mini-militia - you're in Wheeling, W.Va. and they warn and tell everyone to give up the guns- if you've no chance to win- you should give up the guns rather than fight just to die quickly, rather than live under communism (again). Also, there is a provision in canon law for emergency ordination- talk to your bishop.

[Sean Osborne]

... both of you consider me lost from your perspectives...

For myself this is absolutely not true. No, no , no, no and no. I have never stated such a thing regarding you personally. NEVER would I say such a thing. No, no, no, a thousand times no.

Any one who accepts the Grace of God in the shedding of Christ's blood as payment for sin is NOT LOST. Period.

Again, this personal decision for Christ has absolutely nothing to do with ANY established or organized religion. ZIP. Again, it is an indivdual and personal decision of free will.

[Aplomb]

Originally posted by Sean:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aplomb
... both of you consider me lost from your perspectives...

For myself this is absolutely not true. No, no , no, no and no. I have never stated such a thing regarding you personally. NEVER would I say such a thing. No, no, no, a thousand times no.

Any one who accepts the Grace of God in the shedding of Christ's blood as payment for sin is NOT LOST. Period.

Okay, I accept what you say, Sean. I had this opinion based on things such as this that we had discussed on Anomalies:

http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi...1;t=000302;p=2

Me/Teachable:

quote:

---

And by the way, I did appreciate your Van Impe guy coming to the realization that Catholics are sisters and brothers in Christ and that protestants are not living out their faith if they don't love us.

---

You/Invictus:
Well that's his opinion, which he is entirely privilidged to have. Most Evangelicals are rejecting Dr. Van Impe words these days lock, stock and barrel since his about face. The reason is we remember his correct sermons of how the Roman Catholic Canon Law see all others as anathemas.

No worries. I've always seen you as my big brother in Christ. I'm glad to know you don't consider me lost, though.

[Sean Osborne]

Okay, I accept what you say, Sean. I had this opinion based on things such as this that we had discussed on Anomalies:

Aplomb,

The key to understanding my point on this subject is by citing that which Van Impe previously expounded and which Honza Malina is specifically reiterating in this thread - which specifically is a doctine of an established "Church" which I have railed against repeatedly as being completely un-Biblical when it comes to the salvation or the lack thereof of an individual member of the Body of Christ.

That was exactly the point I was making in the quote you provided from back then:

"The reason is we remember his correct sermons of how the Roman Catholic Canon Law see all others as anathemas."

Where in my statement can you possibly come up with the determination or interpretation that I consider YOU OR ANY CATHOLIC BELIEVER "LOST".

I stated nothing about personal salvation of the lack thereof.

[Aplomb]

Sorry about this little interuption Honza.

Sean, specifically because the Van Impe guy says that Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ and Protestants who don't love us aren't living out their faith--to which you then say that he is entitled to that view but most evangelicals are rejecting what he has to say. Not that I am ignoring the very last sentence, or anything. Just answering your question. That says to me that

Most Evangelicals are rejecting Dr. Van Impe words these days lock, stock and barrel since his about face.

Catholics are not considered brothers and sisters in Christ to evangelicals. But like I said, I do accept what you wrote here in not considering me personally as lost.

[Sean Osborne]

Aplomb,

Number One - This is not an interuption, as you yourself stated last evening, this is an intergral and necessary part of the discussion.

Number Two - Your post above is an absolute flip-flop of the core issue we are discussing here.

The issue -- again as specifically stated by Honza Malina whose statement in this thread I clearly and concisely quoted above -- is the fact that Roman Catholic Canon Law sees all others (i.e.: NON-CATHOLICS) as an anathema.

It is none other than the Catholic Church which by its Canon Law excludes, excommunicates, and curses as damned all others of the Body of Christ who are not "Catholic" in their profession of salvation and faith. It is this singular issue alone which has created the schism which many Protestants have always vehemently objected to and railed against since the Reformation of the 16th Century.

My problem here, once again, is that I see Honza Malina enunciating very clearly the exact same doctine. It is wrong, it is divisive and will not make for a good environment within a forum such as this.

[Aplomb]

I understand what you are saying, Sean.

What I mean by interupting the thread is that we are briefly discussing whether you consider me lost or not and why I held that opinion.

I am not flip flopping the core issue. I am simply explaining why I held an opinion, which is what you asked of me. I cited an example. I realize your position and opinion of a divisiveness. Yet Van Impe did state that Catholics are to be considered brothers and sisters in Christ, and you did state that most evangelicals reject that view.

The protestant reformation was not all about Catholics considering anybody anathema. All that anathema jazz did come about but it was after Luther put his list of objections on a church door.

Van Impe has it correct. Whether there are Catholics who don't accept others as true believers or not, that is not a valid reason to not accept them as such. You know, I think of it this way, whether Catholic or Protestant...you say anathema, I say invitin' ya. Jesus is Lord of all.

[Sean Osborne]

One last time... this is not about you or me, or Jack Van Impe.

This is about Honza's determined effort to post divisive non-Biblical material in this forum and my vehement objection to it.

As far as I am concerned, from here forward "Freedom of Speech" ends where it offends or condemns the Judeo-Christian faith of another member of this forum. I will delete such crap on sight.

I am done discussing this.

[Aplomb]

Honza, "universal revelation" ceased w/ the death of the last apostle. Fatima is considered private revelation and not meant for the Universal Church. Just as a miracle is only meant for those who the miracle affects. The church cannot say that everyone must believe the apparitions, they are merely considered "worthy of belief." The apparitions do not go against the teachings of the Church and there is sufficient evidence to suggest that they did indeed happen. I am curious to know if you have a date as to when they were actually considered "worthy of belief".

[samizdat]

I'd like to post some reconciliatory and informative comments, yet believe it in the interest of charity unity and prudence to let the board czar, admin, moderator to decide wether I should proceed.

Greater love implies a degree- most will agree that applies to other virtues such as hope, faith, patience.
"Truth" is an absolute concept- Jesus is the truth.

Some benefits that could ensue from further discussion would be. "do not muzzle an ox treading out grain".

1. Hopefully Honza could modify his zeal for saving souls and aquire some finesse and perhaps receive greater gifts of understanding in regards to the truth.

2. Some misunderstanding about dogma, doctrine, articles of faith, popular belief and unpopular belief could be clarified- there are exceptions to every rule- if not so- David would not have eaten the sacred bread, and Jesus would not have allowed his apostles to pick grain.

3. Honza is holding back- I reckon he's a wealth of knowledge on matters such as the communist infiltration of the Catholic Church, the world council of churches, the "Vatican Moscow" treaty, and the post-vatican schism.

[Sean Osborne]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Romans 10:9).


Regarding nuclear warfare in the not-too-distant future and Biblical prophecy on the subject - notice: my discourse here is Bible-based and not Church doctrine-based - I submit the following very brief list. It is not all inclusive, but serves to get the message across that nuclear warfare is a part of mankinds final experiences immediately prior to the advent of the Millenium Kingdom of Jesus Christ.





Ezekiel 1:4

And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

Revelation 9:18

By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Joel 2:3

A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

I will have more later.

[samizdat]

This is interesting reading concerning prophecy.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/r...1&byte=3652195

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Esdras