Demonic Possession

[Joey Bagadonuts]

Hows THAT for an attention-getting thread title?
OK...lets start with this news story just in, one that I don't find hard to believe at all.
By the way...I agree with Sean on this point, we both believe that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is also demonically possessed :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1770&ct=5


Hitler and Stalin were possessed by the Devil, says Vatican exorcist


Adolf Hitler and Russian leader Stalin were possessed by the Devil, the Vatican's chief exorcist has claimed.

Father Gabriele Amorth who is Pope Benedict XVI's 'caster out of demons' made his comments during an interview with Vatican Radio.

Father Amorth said: "Of course the Devil exists and he can not only possess a single person but also groups and entire populations.

"I am convinced that the Nazis were all possessed. All you have to do is think about what Hitler - and Stalin did. Almost certainly they were possessed by the Devil.

"You can tell by their behaviour and their actions, from the horrors they committed and the atrocities that were committed on their orders. That's why we need to defend society from demons."

According to secret Vatican documents recently released wartime pontiff Pope Pius XII attempted a "long distance" exorcism of Hitler which failed to have any effect.

Father Amorth said: "It's very rare that praying and attempting to carry out an exorcism from distance works.

"Of course you can pray for someone from a distance but in this case it would not have any effect.

"One of the key requirements for an exorcism is to be present in front of the possessed person and that person also has to be consenting and willing.

"Therefore trying to carry out an exorcism on someone who is not present, or consenting and willing would prove very difficult.

"However I have no doubt that Hitler was possessed and so it does not surprise me that Pope Pius XII tried a long distance exorcism."

In the past Father Amorth has also spoken out against the Harry Potter books, claiming that reading the novels of the teen wizard open children's minds to dabbling with the occult and black magic.

Father Amorth, who is president of the International Association of Exorcists, said of the JK Rowling books:"Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of the darkness, the devil."

He said that Rowling's books contain innumerable positive references to magic, "the satanic art" and added the books attempt to make a false distinction between black and white magic, when in fact, the distinction "does not exist, because magic is always a turn to the devil."

Father Amorth is said to have carried out more than 30,000 exorcisms in his career and his favourite film is, according to Italian newspapers The Exorcist.


***

[wallis]

Such a view assumes that the brain of every person is "normal," healthy, and devoid of mental problems, such as depression, schizophrenia, and the like. Such a view also must assume that the body (as well as the mind) is free from toxins, such as drugs (which we know that Hitler took in great quantities and Stalin probably as well).

We 21st Century folks know a hell of a lot more than our pre-First Century kin about the brain and personality disorders, but at the same time, we are a long ways from understanding why people think and feel as they do.

In the past, it was very "easy" to pronounce some sort of demonic possession for the "abnormal" behavior demonstrated by certain individuals. Unfortunately, what was defined as "abnormal" was anything that was not deemed as "normal" by either a clergyman, a group leader, or a society. Also, it was an "easy" way to commit murder under a legal pretense for removing persons who were either a threat to the society in question or blocked power-hungry people from assuming as much power as they could obtain.

It has only been historically recent that such brain disorders have been identified, such as Alzheimers. Before, we chalked up people who began acting strangely as either having dementia, an "old person's disease," or going crazy.

I surmise that each individual is mentally deficient. We all have some traits of mental disease that causes us to do quirky things. Each individual experiences life through their own trying ways. And, these experiences mold the young mind in certain patterns that are often destructive, not just to themselves but to society as well.

To those who prefer to believe that a devil exists in some sort of spiritual form and is an anti-God force that actively corrupts Creation, it would be very easy to bottom-line all of the diseases that affect human behavior as demonic possession. And, then, that would essentially be the end of the discussion, unless someone would begin advocating the removal (permanently) of all persons who had even the slightest form of demonic possession. That would also mean the elimination of every human being on the face of the Earth.

But to those who prefer to believe that the brain is an extremely delicate organ, and that personality is also a very fragile thing indeed, it would seem to me that people (especially those in authority over the raising and educating the young) should begin to regard how life affects the mental health of everyone.

I believe that I am fairly mentally healthy (along with just about everyone else). Of course, I recognize nearly all of my own faults and how life has shaped my thinking and personality. Most of these faults can be changed, but if I refuse to change them, then have I become demonically possessed, or have I simply chosen a particular path that will continue to be destructive for myself and eventually the society that I live in.

[samizdat]

that person also has to be consenting and willing

Not delving into the rhetoric or classifications of demonic control- oppresion, obsession, and posession-
Billions upon billion of people are "controlled by the devil". This state- though it doesn't qualify as a classical "Posession", is in my opinion far more dangerous- both to the individual souls and to the rest of the world. As a loose definition let's call "controlled by the devil"- those individuals or souls who have known and rejected Christ or the Father, and contrary to leadings by the Holy Spirit and their moral conscience have chosen serious sin and collusion with the devil. I wouldn't consider "controlled by the devil" the Jewish, Hindu, Buddist etc., pagans by birth or moderate Moslems who practice their faiths in concordance with the 10 commandments and morality. These folk, not yet called by the Father to Jesus, or received by the Father through Jesus, are not as blessed as many abundant life Christians. However, they are not as cursed, and perhaps damned if they don't wake up to Truth in Jesus, as many many fallen away and luke warm "Christians", who having the Word, the Bread of Life at their fingertips, shun the light for darkness, lest their evil deeds be exposed. These are the true anti-Christians. For by their lives, they deny that Christ is the Messiah. The most unhappy lot- (1 Cor. 15;18) are those whose only hope in Christ is for this world.

In any event, Christian persecution is reviving and mounting up. I don't like it- who does? There's an old addage about the cross being sweet. Pain and persecution is not sweet. Cherishing the prize, and being patient and kind despite fear, indignation and sorrow- that's peace that surpasses all understanding. I don't think the cross (I bear) is sweet. I keep my eyes on the prize and maintain that elusive peace, by the grace of God.

I agree w/ Sean about most of his prophetic writing. Actually I could care less if atomic A is "posessed" or demonically controlled- by his own consent and will to "try" to harness the power of Satan. (Classical "posession" includes relatively innocent victims who by some accidental or minor sin lose control of their physical and mental faculties- often hurting their own bodies, and manifesting supernatural powers of persuasion(hitler-stalin- catholic seminary flunkies) miracles, intelligence, knowledge of languages, etc.) His conversion to Christ would be propitious though. I'm frankly more concerned about fallen from the path and luke warm Christians. I agree that major events are astir and will include severe and growing Christian persecution, as well as WAROW- wars and rumours.
The wheat and chaff will be separated, the goats and sheep will be manifested. Wheat is ground, sheep are slaughtered, grapes are trodden. Not sweet.

When I said I agree with most of Sean's prophetic writing- let's say I hope all. Somewhere buried in the Bible proph thread, Sean mentions that (correct me if I'm wrong) 75% of US Americans are Christians and some implication that they have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb sufficiently to be raptured.

Fulfillment of this prophecy in the near future is possible. A severe tribulation, persecution, catastrophe could evoke a true whole hearted American acceptance of Jesus. At this moment- I think it would be stretching stats to claim that even 25% of US Americans are truely holy rollin, bible whacking, robe washin, or rosary rattlin Christians. IMHO, we're still talking Lamentations, Corinthians, should be ready for meat, but not even desiring milk. . But let us pray. Tough times are ahead. God forgives, God revives, God unifies. Silent prayer, faith and HOPE. Let's hope 75% isn't good enough for God, cause it ain't. God wishes that all men be saved. Gold is refined in the pyre. Let's hope for a much higher than 75 percentile.

Summing it up, demonically controlled people, especially the astute ones, are more frightful that the posessed, and both are more frightful than satan hisbeast- who flees at the Holy Name of Jesus. Fallen and luke warm Christians are a greater horror, especially the wolves in lambs clothing.

And why are humans more danger than the Master of Dark "lite". Because they evoke affection, pity and are "like" servants of the dark master in disguise.

Yeah. Been to the mountaintop. Seen that. Promised Land. Feel good when I be's dere. Until then- lot's of Genesis- sweat brow, child birth pain. Nothing impure enters heaven. Lotsa blood sweat and tears till then. And watch out for those little demons. Especially the ones that evoke sex drugs and violence v. "purity, progress and violence" and never never I mean never rock and roll- that's a big sin.

Somebody should debate with Atomic A and chemmy Assad, the sidekick. I nominate Ryan.

[Brian Baldwin]

Personally I think demonic possession is possible but one must invite it. After all this body is my house. MINE! I would be greatly disappointed to find out people believe there is no choice and you can be possessed at will by various evil spirts. If that were true then we'd all be possessed and I most certainly am not.

Since I don't believe in Satan in the way Christians, Jews, and Muslims do I won't comment on that. This isn't a thread for it. But I will suggest that I think possession is a handy excuse for the evil of men. Kind of like refusing to believe a 17 year old boy would look at pornography behind his parents back or blaming a video game for a killing spree. I hate to relay this info to the rest of you as you may take offense by it (which is not my intent as Sean can attest)... But sometimes people can just plain be evil. We were given a great gift when we were granted free will; of that there is no doubt. But I've met too many people that were all too willing to commit evil or even enjoyed doing so. Many attended church regularly as a front (so I believe) and yet had no adverse affects befall them from being in God's house. Possession from recorded instances seems to contradict this. I am not an expert nor would I pretend to be one on this subject but my own opinion is as good as any others. I do not believe for one second that people who commit heinious crimes are always under the influence of evil spirts. Sometimes the evil is their own soul. At some point we all decide to be adult if we're going to be. At some point we all decide to contribute to society if we so desire. And at some point we all decide to be good or evil to various degrees. I accept no excuses. I allow no latitude. You and you alone are responsible for evil actions. For even under chemically induced hypnosis you can not be forced to do something you are adverse to do. And no amount of prayer will stay an evil man's hand once he has the taste of evil in his heart. Because if your prayers could stop me from doing what I so decide to do then the gift of free will given of God is not a gift at all, but rather a shiny bauble that one gives in deceit. I absolutely refuse to believe that of the God I believe in. But should you so believe it that is fine also. For either or both of us could be wrong or right. The end will tell.

[samizdat]

I agree. My statement about somewhat innocent victims becoming "classicly posessed" after minor or accidental sins is misleading. These cases are extremely rare, and serve as a manifestation of the great mercy of Jesus in releasing those captive to the devil. THE classic case would be the man demon posessed by legion, where Jesus sent the demons into the pigs. Modern cases might be such as the true exorcist case from Mt. Ranier, where there was likely some contact with a uoija board, though the player was initially ignorant of the serious consequences. It is rare, but kids can walk into dark traps such as dark secrets, palm readers, divination- dungeons and dragons, magic(sorcery), Harry Potter, without proper Christian and moral instruction.

I don't make a fuss about exorcists. Jesus uses them to expose to the public that the devil is real. Most exorcisms are useless and the patients are better served by making small resolutions to reform their lives and avoid evil. (confesion) Various holy missionaries refused frequent pleas to perform exorcisms for this reason. But what can one do when extreme supernatural forces infest a body- prayer and fasting.

[Aplomb]

Wallis, please see me in chat to talk about this sometime. I agree with a lot of what you said. I think it is okay, though, to say that one believes that somebody is demon possessed w/o going on a witch hunt; if that makes any sense. As far as I can tell, I haven't personally met anyone who is demon possessed. But...I have definately seen demons oppressing people right around me. That bit about having mental problems...well, just suppose that this makes it easier for demons to bother those who have a greater degree of issues with their mind. I mean, think about it, before you sin, you ponder the deed and make a way for it to happen or to reject it repeatedly to avoid sinning. When one isn't able to properly function at a "normal" range mentally, perhaps this is how the evil enters in a door wide open.

[wallis]

Can do, Aplomb. With our time differences, we will have to "make a date" when it is most convenient for you. See, right now it is just past 7:30 in the morning, and then I have to go to work at 8:00. Then, I'm usually free after 9:00 p.m. till midnight. But I think I'm about 14 hours ahead of you. My Sundays (your Saturday night) are free, which would probably be the best time for both of us.

[samizdat]

I missed Wallis' post originally, since I was reading and posting at the same time. I also agree with his line of thought, since I studied quite a bit of psychiatry having family members "affected". Most shrinks link spiritual problems with personality disorders- and nobody, but Jesus can be the final judge of why folk go from bad to worse.

Don't have much more to say on this since most will agree- serious sin leads to severe mental problems.

Severe mental problems often leads to serious sin.

As for classifying someone as posessed- this is rare- the individuals must persistantly exhibit supernatural powers- and not be able to control their actions. For instance, a PCP deranged individual- with superman type strength, impervious to pain, and some clairvoyant powers during intoxication- is not considered posessed.
I've tangled with these types, and no doubt, their powers are supernatural- both physical- breaking handcuffs, moving cars or telling me things about myself in intimidation, facts by a stranger- known only by me. There is another name for these types- MO- mentally out (devil moves in for a while) or pain in the butt. World leader types such as Atomic a, hitler, stalin, assad- I consider likely belong in the category- willing and consenting- collusion with the devil. Selfish ambition, usually pride can lead them to treaties or pacts with the devil. This is much more dangerous and harmful than classic posession, where an individual loses control repeatedly and consistanly over their body, actions mind and memory. Normally- posession per se does not apply to world leaders. However- their is a point of no return.

Enuf of the devil- much ado about nothing. Someday, somewhere- he wont bother me no more.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

I'd like to recommend a book to you guys.

1. "Hostage To The Devil...The Possession And Exorcism Of Five
Americans"
by Malachi Martin

The author is a former Jesuit, advisor to three Popes, Professor at the
Vatican's Pontifical Biblical Institute, held three doctorates degrees, spoke
several languages, authored 15 books and and was an exorcist for the
Roman Catholic Church.
The book is dynamite.



***

[Brian Baldwin]

Sigh...... I had a huge post made and an expired password put an end to it. LOL..... I'll try to cover it again here.

My point above isn't whether possession exists but rather whether or not it can be diagnosed based upon the level of evil within an individual. Above sam mentions dangerous traps.... Such as D&D, Harry Potter and the Ouija Board. I've done it all including watched R and XXX rated movies, Read the Satanic Bible, (more below on that), played violent video games, and have never attended church other than once to see my daughter's first communion. (at her request). I've drank plenty of alcohol, had pre-marital sex.... Lots of it, done various drugs, and many more things. Never got possessed or had encounters that would lead me to believe a try at that was even made in my direction. I'm a stand up, decent man that has conservative family values and always do what I know is right. I've never struck a woman, cheated on a spouse, lied to get out of trouble, or abused a child. In my mind there is only one trap that can lead to possession and that is invitation of the deed.

I read the Satanic bible back when I was studying every major religion and many of the cults. I believe only through knowledge can one make an intelligent decision. What I gleaned from that dark book was that evil isn't just the workings and influence of evil spirts but that of men too. Some people just love being bad. Iran's leader is a good example of such a man. He enjoys harming others and the history of his own people show that in spades. I believe personally that only weak willed people would invite possession and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is NOT weak willed. Nope. His evil is his own making. No matter what extreme ugliness he comes up with it is his own making and has no ties to the devil as far as possession. So how is it that a man raised in religion is evil beyond belief and I, who has lived a wild life, do good? Free will. He chose in the end to be evil and I chose to be good.

I do however believe in possession as I stated above. But since I am no expert I intend to read the book Joey has recommended in order to see other view points. But I hope you will all take my accounts and experiences of study and life into your own minds for mulling over. Such is what discourse is for.

[Aplomb]

Originally posted by Brian:

So how is it that a man raised in religion is evil beyond belief and I, who has lived a wild life, do good? Free will. He chose in the end to be evil and I chose to be good.

The thing is, Brian, there are more dynamics than free will involved, though I agree this is one good point. The president of Iran, for instance, who is very religious, submits to a certain authority. While you have not found any reason to allow somebody or some thing to be your master, this man, who may well be crazy, believes that his holy book which he believes comes from Allah/his god, is authoritative. What it tells him to do is to wage war on those who are not in line w/ those same beliefs.

Another thing to consider is that the opposite of weak-willed is strong willed. You may strong-willed toward what you want. And what you want is to live a good life, while Ahmadinejad is also a strong-willed individual. I think it is probably a better indicator for possible possession if you are "crazy" rather than weak-willed. One is at a loss to fight against possession if all the faculties aren't there, but then, too, I believe that when one is possessed, that individual goes insane and is capable of grave evil against his/her fellow human beings.

And yes, I also agree that some people are just plain evil. Secretly I sometimes even wonder if that is something that can be genetic.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

Demonic Possession and Exorcism
by FR. WILLIAM SAUNDERS

I was watching the movie "The Exorcist" with some of my friends. Can the devil really possess someone? Does the Church really do exorcisms? I heard that the movie is based on a real story. Is that true?

The devil and his demons can indeed possess an individual. The New Testament presents several stories of diabolical possession and our Lord's exorcism of the demons. For instance, Jesus exorcized the demons (who identify themselves as "legion") of Gerasa. The possessed man was so strong he was able to pull apart the chains that bound him and smash them. In the end, the demons entered the swine and destroyed them. (Cf. Mk 5:1-20). In each of the exorcism stories, we see the power of Christ triumphantly vanquishing the devil and his demons.

Christ also empowered the Apostles to cast out demons in His name: "Then He summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority to expel unclean spirits and to cure sickness and disease of every kind" (Mt 10:1). The practice of exorcism is recorded in the writings of the early Church Fathers, including St. Justin Martyr (d. 165), Tertullian (d. 230), and St. Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 386). Over the course of the centuries, the Church has well documented cases of possession and exorcism, including the one to which the reader refers.

Given this brief Biblical and historical foundation, we can better examine the issue. Father Jordan Aumann, O.P., a noted Professor of Spiritual Theology, offers the following definition: "Diabolical possession is a phenomenon in which the devil invades the body of a living person and moves the faculties and organs as if he were manipulating a body of his own. The devil truly resides within the body of the unfortunate victim, and he operates in it and treats it as his own property. Those who suffer this despotic invasion are said to be possessed" (Spiritual Theology, p. 408). However, the soul cannot be entered or overcome and thus remains free; in a sense, the soul — really the person — is like in a state of suspended animation. Pope Benedict XIV in his teaching De servorum Dei beatificatione, et beatorum canonizatione stated, "Demons, in the individuals whom they possess, are like motors within the bodies which they move, but in such a way that they impress no quality on the body nor do they give it any new mode of existence nor, strictly speaking, do they constitute, together with the possessed person, a single being."

In determining whether a person is possessed by the devil or his demons, the Church would first make sure he underwent thorough physical and psychiatric examinations. Eliminating these natural causes, Church officials would seek other signs: unexplainable physical phenomena, such as levitation or the uncaused movement of objects; displaying strength that surpasses one's condition; the knowledge and usage of archaic languages which the person would have no way of previously knowing, such as speaking Aramaic; and the secret knowledge of a person's life, particularly the exorcist, which no other person would know. Another sign is the vehement aversion to God, the Blessed Mother, the saints, the cross, and sacred images, demonstrated by blasphemous remarks or sacrilegious actions. The devil also reveals his presence by acts of anger and violence, and through blasphemous, sacrilegious, profane, and obscene remarks. The Bishop would authorize an exorcism only after serious examination and a careful weighing of all of the evidence.

The Roman Ritual prescribes a Rite of Exorcism, a series of prayers, blessings, and invocations in the exorcizing of the devil. (The Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments released a revised ritual on January 26, 2000 with the approval of Pope John Paul II.) The holy arsenal of weapons used in an exorcism include sacramental confession, the reception of Holy Communion, fasting and prayer (particularly saying the Rosary), the use of sacramentals (like blessings with holy water, the presence of a crucifix or other religious images), blessings with the relics of saints, and the invocation of the names of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and St. Michael. The ritual is repeated until the devil is cast out of the person, at which time the exorcist petitions God to never permit the devil to possess the person again.

During the course of the diabolical possession and even the exorcism, the person has not only periods of crisis when the struggle with evil is most apparent, but also periods of calm when one thinks the possession has ended. Interestingly, after the exorcism, the person does not remember what transpired while being possessed.

Why would God allow the devil to possess someone? We must remember that we all contend with the temptations of the Prince of this World. After all, we are the weak victims of Original Sin and need God's grace to do what is holy and good. When the new ritual for exorcism was released, Cardinal Medina, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, stated very poignantly, A...I would like to stress that the evil influence of the devil and his followers is usually exercised through deceit and confusion. Just as Jesus is the Truth, so the devil is the liar par excellence. He deceives human beings by making them believe that happiness is found in money, power, or carnal desire. He deceives them into thinking that they do not need God, that grace and salvation are unnecessary. He even deceives them by diminishing the sense of sin or even suppressing it altogether, replacing God's law as the criterion of morality with the habits or conventions of the majority." Consequently, spiritual writers think that a person has some initial openness to such a possession, through, for example, living a mortally sinful lifestyle, the habitual practice of evil, the desire to explore the occult, and the fascination with forms of spiritism, magic, and sorcery.

Why would the devil want to possess a person? In the book The Exorcist, the older priest, Father Merrin speaks with the young Father Karras, who asked him, "Why this girl? It makes not sense." Father Merrin, an experienced exorcist, replied, "I think the point is to make us despair — to see ourselves as animal and ugly, to reject the possibility that God could love us." Although this text is fictional, the underlying message is valid. Whether through the horror of sin or possession, the devil wants to shatter our belief that God loves us beyond our imagining and will even forgive any sin if we are truly sorry. Therefore, we have great hope, for our Lord is "the way, the truth, and the life" (Jn 14:6) who has "overcome the world" (Jn 16:33).

Concerning both the book and the movie versions, The Exorcist was based on a true account of diabolical possession. One must remember that the book and especially the movie have certain sensational, "Hollywoodesque" elements which are purely fictional.

The true story began in January 1949 and involved a 13-year-old boy named Robbie who lived with his parents and grandmother in Mt. Rainier, Md. (Some sources indicate that the family actually lived in nearby Cottage City; possibly, authorities wanted to keep that actual place secret to protect the boy.) Robbie was very close to his aunt who visited the family frequently from St. Louis, Mo. She was a medium and attempted to communicate with the spirit world. Not only did she spark Robbie's interest in this practice, she also taught him how to use the Ouija board.

Strange phenomena began happening on Jan. 10, 1949. The family heard scratching on the walls; however, exterminators found no evidence of pests of any kind. Objects moved by themselves: a table would turn over, a chair would move across the room, a vase would fly through the air and a picture of Christ would shake. At night, Robbie felt scratching in his bed, and he suffered nightmares frequently.

After the aunt died suddenly on Jan. 26, Robbie continued to use the Ouija board to communicate with her and others. The strange phenomena also continued. Moreover, Robbie's disposition changed — he become unsettled, agitated and angry.

In February, his parents took Robbie to visit their Lutheran minister, Rev. Schulze. Being interested in parapsychology, he thought perhaps a poltergeist was tormenting the family. Pastor Schulze allowed Robbie to move into his house for observation for a couple of days. The minister witnessed chairs and other objects moving by themselves. After he saw the bed shake, he moved the mattress to the floor, where it glided along by itself. Pastor Schulze became suspicious of the presence of evil.

Upon Pastor Schulze's recommendation, the family took Robbie to the Mental Hygiene Clinic of the University of Maryland for testing. After two rounds of testing, nothing abnormal was discovered. Pastor Schulze then advised the family to contact the local Catholic priest. Robbie and his parents visited Father Hughes of St. James Catholic Church in Mt. Rainier. While interviewing Robbie, Father Hughes saw the telephone and other objects in his office move by themselves.

Robbie also cast obscene and blasphemous remarks at him in a strange, diabolical voice. The room became eerily frigid. Father Hughes was convinced that Robbie was possessed. After reviewing the facts of the case and the medical evidence, Cardinal O'Boyle authorized an exorcism.

Robbie was admitted to Georgetown Hospital, where Father Hughes began the ritual of exorcism. The boy became violent, with spitting and projectile vomiting. He cast obscenities and blasphemies at Father Hughes. Although restrained to the bed, Robbie broke loose and wrenched out a metal spring with which he slashed Father Hughes from his left shoulder to wrist. The wound required over 100 stitches to close it. Robbie seemed calm after this attack, not remembering the ordeal. He was then released and sent home.

The strange phenomena soon resumed at their home. One night, when Robbie was changing for bed, he screamed. A bloody word had been scratched on his chest, Louis. His mother asked if this meant, "St. Louis," and another bloody word appeared, yes.

Almost immediately, the family journeyed to visit their cousin in St. Louis. The same strange phenomena began to happen. The cousin, a student at St. Louis University, talked with one of her priest professors, Father Bishop, S.J., about the situation. Father Bishop then contacted one of his close friends, Father Bowdern, S.J., pastor of St. Francis Xavier Church.

The two priests and a young Jesuit scholastic went to interview Robbie on March 9, 1949. They noticed bloody zig-zig scratches on his chest. They heard scraping sounds. They saw a large bookcase move and turn around by itself and a stool move across the floor. Robbie's bed would shake as he lay on it. He hurled obscenities and blasphemies at them. The priests knew they were confronting evil.

They petitioned Cardinal Ritter for permission to perform an exorcism. After reviewing all of the evidence including medical and psychiatric exams, he granted permission on March 16.

As the priests began the Rite of Exorcism, Robbie became violent. He made howling and growling noises. The bed shook up and down. On his chest appeared bloody scratches with the words hell and devil, and even an image of Satan. Robbie spit at the priests as he hurled obscenities and blasphemies, with intermittent fiendish laughter.

For his own safety and for the family's welfare, Robbie was then transferred to the Alexian Brothers Hospital and placed in the psychiatric ward. Father Bowdern continued to perform the exorcism. With the family's consent, Robbie was baptized a Catholic. When Father Bowdern tried to give him First Holy Communion, Robbie five times spit out the Sacred Host; they then paused to say the Rosary, and Robbie finally received the Holy Eucharist.

On April 18, Easter Monday, the exorcism came to a climax. As Father Bowdern continued the ritual, the demon recognized the presence of St. Michael the Archangel, and was expelled from Robbie. A sound like a gunshot was heard throughout the hospital. After this whole ordeal, Robbie remembered nothing of the diabolical phenomena, except the vision of St. Michael. Interestingly, The Washington Post ran a front-page story on August 20, 1949 entitled, "Priest Frees Mt. Rainier Boy Reported Held in Devil's Grip."

Certainly, this story is frightening, but is nevertheless true. Keep in mind also that no matter what sensational effects Hollywood may have added to the real movie, they cannot compare in horror to the actual presence of evil displayed in diabolical possession.

So to answer the reader's original questions, yes, the devil really can possess someone, and yes, the Church really does exorcisms. Be on guard! Stay away from anything dealing with the occult, including Ouija boards. Use the weapons of the holy arsenal that protect us from evil: pray, attend Mass, receive Holy Communion, live by the commandments and the teachings of the Church and confess sins frequently. If we rely on this holy arsenal for God's graces, we have no need to fear: the love of God will always triumph over evil.


ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

Saunders, Rev. William. "Demonic Possession and Exorcism" Arlington Catholic Herald.

This article is reprinted with permission from Arlington Catholic Herald.

THE AUTHOR

Father William Saunders is dean of the Notre Dame Graduate School of Christendom College and pastor of Our Lady of Hope Parish in Sterling, Virginia. The above article is a "Straight Answers" column he wrote for the Arlington Catholic Herald. Father Saunders is also the author of Straight Answers, a book based on 100 of his columns and published by Cathedral Press in Baltimore.


***

[Joey Bagadonuts]

'The Exorcist': The Story Behind the Movie
by FR. WILLIAM SAUNDERS

I was watching the movie "The Exorcist" with some of my friends. Can the devil really possess someone? Does the Church really do exorcisms? I heard that the movie is based on a real story. Is that true?

Last week, Straight Answers addressed the issues of diabolical possession and exorcism. Concerning both the book and the movie versions, The Exorcist was based on a true account of diabolical possession. One must remember that the book and especially the movie have certain sensational, "hollywoodesque" elements which are purely fictional.

The true story began in January 1949 and involved a 13-year-old boy named Robbie who lived with his parents and grandmother in Mt. Rainier, Maryland. Robbie was very close to his aunt who visited the family frequently from St. Louis, Missouri. She was a medium and attempted to communicate with the spirit world. Not only did she spark Robbie’s interest in this practice, she also taught him how to use the Ouija board.

Strange phenomena began happening on Jan. 10, 1949. The family heard scratching on the walls; however, exterminators found no evidence of pests of any kind. Objects moved by themselves: a table would turn over, a chair would move across the room, a vase would fly through the air, and a picture of Christ would shake. At night, Robbie felt scratching in his bed, and he suffered nightmares frequently.

After the aunt died suddenly on Jan. 26, Robbie continued to use the Ouija board to communicate with her and others. The strange phenomena also continued. Moreover, Robbie’s disposition changed — he become unsettled, agitated, and angry.

In February, his parents took Robbie to visit their Lutheran minister, Rev. Schulze. Being interested in parapsychology, he thought perhaps a poltergeist was tormenting the family. Pastor Schulze allowed Robbie to move into his house for observation for a couple of days. The minister witnessed chairs and other objects moving by themselves. After he saw the bed shake, he moved the mattress to the floor, where it glided along by itself. Pastor Schulze became suspicious of the presence of evil.

Upon Pastor Schulze’s recommendation, the family took Robbie to the Mental Hygiene Clinic of the University of Maryland for testing. After two rounds of testing, nothing abnormal was discovered. Pastor Schulze then advised the family to contact the local Catholic priest.

Robbie and his parents visited Father Hughes of St. James Catholic Church in Mt. Rainier. While interviewing Robbie, Father Hughes saw the telephone and other objects in his office move by themselves. Robbie also cast obscene and blasphemous remarks at him in a strange, diabolical voice. The room became eerily frigid. Father Hughes was convinced that Robbie was possessed. After reviewing the facts of the case and the medical evidence, Cardinal O’Boyle authorized an exorcism.

Robbie was admitted to Georgetown hospital, where Father Hughes began the ritual of exorcism. The boy became violent, with spitting and projectile vomiting. He cast obscenities and blasphemies at Father Hughes. Although restrained to the bed, Robbie broke loose and wrenched out a metal spring with which he slashed Father Hughes from his left shoulder to wrist. The wound required over 100 stitches to close it. Robbie seemed calm after this attack, not remembering the ordeal. He was then released and sent home.

The strange phenomena soon resumed at their home. One night, when Robbie was changing for bed, he screamed. A bloody word had been scratched on his chest, Louis. His mother asked if this meant, "St. Louis," and another bloody word appeared, yes.

Almost immediately, the family journeyed to visit their cousin in St. Louis, Missouri. The same strange phenomena began to happen. The cousin, a student at St. Louis University, talked with one of her priest professors, Father Bishop, S.J., about the situation. Father Bishop then contacted one of his close friends, Father Bowdern, S.J., pastor of St. Francis Xavier Church.

The two priests and a young Jesuit scholastic went to interview Robbie on March 9, 1949. They noticed bloody zig-zig scratches on his chest. They heard scraping sounds. They saw a large bookcase move and turn around by itself and a stool move across the floor. Robbie’s bed would shake as he lay on it. He hurled obscenities and blasphemies at them. The priests knew they were confronting evil.

They petitioned Cardinal Ritter for permission to perform an exorcism. After reviewing all of the evidence including medical and psychiatric exams, he granted permission on March 16.

As the priests began the Rite of Exorcism, Robbie became violent. He made howling and growling noises. The bed shook up and down. On his chest appeared bloody scratches with the words hell and devil, and even an image of Satan. Robbie spit at the priests as he hurled obscenities and blasphemies, with intermittent fiendish laughter.

For his own safety and for the family’s welfare, Robbie was then transferred to the Alexian Brothers Hospital and placed in the psychiatric ward. Father Bowdern, continued to perform the exorcism. With the family’s consent, Robbie was baptized a Catholic. When Father Bowdern tried to give him First Holy Communion, Robbie five times spit out the Sacred Host; they then paused to say the Rosary, and Robbie finally received the Holy Eucharist.

On April 18, Easter Monday, the exorcism came to a climax. As Father Bowdern continued the ritual, the demon recognized the presence of St. Michael the Archangel, and was expelled from Robbie. A sound like a gunshot was heard throughout the hospital. After this whole ordeal, Robbie remembered nothing of the diabolical phenomena, except the vision of St. Michael. Certainly, this story is frightening, but is nevertheless true.

So to answer the reader’s original questions, yes, the devil really can possess someone, and yes, the Church really does exorcisms. Be on guard! Stay away from anything dealing with the occult, including Ouija boards. Use the weapons of the holy arsenal that protect us from evil: pray, attend Mass, receive Holy Communion, live by the commandments and the teachings of the Church, and confess sins frequently. If we rely on this holy arsenal for God’s graces, we have no need to fear: the love of God will always triumph over evil.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

Saunders, Rev. William. "The Role of Godparents." Arlington Catholic Herald.

This article is reprinted with permission from Arlington Catholic Herald.

THE AUTHOR

Father William Saunders is dean of the Notre Dame Graduate School of Christendom College and pastor of Our Lady of Hope Parish in Sterling, Virginia. The above article is a "Straight Answers" column he wrote for the Arlington Catholic Herald. Father Saunders is also the author of Straight Answers, a book based on 100 of his columns and published by Cathedral Press in Baltimore.


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[Joey Bagadonuts]

Hiya boys,

WALLIS---Regarding Father Amorth's remarks, he undoubtedly knows more on this subject than I do, but I can't agree with everything he said. I never heard of Satan being able to possess (in the true sense of the word)..."groups and entire populations". I also never heard of a "long distance exorcism"...but as a Catholic, I believe that the Pope is Gods representative here on earth and I'll defer to him on the subject. Thats why I also don't agree with your thoughts that... "Such a view assumes that the brain of every person is "normal," healthy, and devoid of mental problems, such as depression, schizophrenia, and the like".

SAMI---I agree with you 100% when you said ..."In any event, Christian persecution is reviving and mounting up." It's gonna get a LOT worse. I believe we ain't seen nothing yet. And let no one be fooled, the devil IS behind this.

BRIAN---I read your statement that ...'I would be greatly disappointed to find out people believe there is no choice and you can be possessed at will by various evil spirts.' I agree with you and so do most Roman Catholic "experts" on exorcism that I've read or heard speak. There has to be some sort of "permission granted" or "authority yielded" to be possessed.

SAMI---YES, YES, YES!... "It is rare, but kids can walk into dark traps such as dark secrets, palm readers, divination- dungeons and dragons, magic(sorcery), Harry Potter, without proper Christian and moral instruction." And that damned "ouija board". The ouija board is NOT a harmless game! As far as "superhuman strength" goes...it IS real. I once had a psychiatrist at the old Vroom Building in NJ's Hospital For The Criminally Insane (the worst of the worst) tell me that there is no such thing as superhuman strength. When we see an insane patient biting steel or ripping a room apart....THEY don't get any stronger, seeing their actions, FEAR makes us WEAK. What a load of absolute bullshit!


PLUMMIE---"Secretly I sometimes even wonder if that is something that can be genetic." I heard a discussion on this once, I believe it was Father Malachi Martin who said that possession CAN be generational, but that there is always that element of "permission granted" or "authority yielded" involved.


There's so much I'd like to say on this subject and we've only just scratched the surface. The best part of this thread though, is that we're talking about the issue. Know thy enemy!
.Or as Baudelaire said..."the devil's cleverest trick was to convince us that he doesn't exist".

Something to think about...by Os Guinness:

"The modern world has marginalized traditional responses to evil--by dismissing traditional categories and sidelining traditional ways of responding." Sin and evil instead have become "sickness" and "dysfunction," anomalies to be corrected by technical intervention by scientific experts or by political, economic, or social transformation. Changing the name of evil, though, has not altered the reality, and in fact has made it more insidious: "When none dare call it evil, evil does not disappear--it is all the freer to surprise us and do its deadly work."

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[Brian Baldwin]

And yes, I also agree that some people are just plain evil. Secretly I sometimes even wonder if that is something that can be genetic.

I suspect that it can.... A case in point... My Mother's first husband had gotten out of the service on a section 8 (insanity). He was abusive and worse. My half brother from that marriage was diagnosed as criminally insane in his early teen years. As a toddler he was always mean and troublesome but it was the teen years where he really shot into another gear. I remember his eyes as he drowned a tiny puppy.... Sheer elation. To this day I wonder if he ended up a serial killer somewhere. I haven't seen him since he was 14 and hope never to do so again.

So while we know insanity can be passed down. I also suspect so can the want to be evil. Or perhaps wanting to be evil could be a form of insanity.

[MinutemanCO]

Interesting subject matter as we as believers and those who haven’t a clue must deal with the spirit world every day. The Bible makes this abundantly clear, see Ephesians Chapter 6.

A couple of semi-relevant items, for what it’s worth…

When I moved to Boulder for a brief period of time. At the time, I was unaware that Colorado, I settled my family in Boulder is a spiritual focal point for many false religions, ie. Wicca, Church of Satan, various garden variety pagan sects, you name it. My job frequently took me to the high mountains of western Boulder County. There was a palpable feeling of oppression manifesting as general uneasiness, stress, uncomfortable energy, etc. that I would almost always experience as I drove around the city of Boulder. I became quite in tune with that unease that, without fail, would always lift as I left the geographical confines of the city and headed into the mountains. At first I experienced this in ignorance as I was a young Christian. I then dug into scripture a bit and studied Daniel Chapter 10 which intimates that there may be prescribed geographical boundaries to demonic influences. Evil influence over Boulder may be more pronounced, as I believe it is in places like San Francisco, because of the open worship in demonic/satanic based rites and rituals thus leaving that door open. My Pastor at that time suggested that I may have a higher level of discernment than most, which affects a greater sensitivity to spiritual manifestations. Possible I suppose.

Secondly, still in Boulder, a good Christian friend of mine came to visit. This gets weird so bear with me. The last night of his stay, he was sleeping in the finished basement of the house we were renting at the time. He distinctly remembers awakening in the middle of the night to view a pretty disturbing scene. He was able to distinguish multiple large dark shapes moving around his room in an eerie fashion. My friend at that time had known the Lord for many years so his word was unimpeachable and his discernment strong. He felt that the shapes were some form of visual manifestation of demonic figures that had come to influence him in some way. (This is where it gets even weirder) He then looked around the room further to see one of my dogs, a mature female ridgeback, sitting at the foot of his bed. The dog looked directly into his eyes, as he recalls, with compassion and understanding as if to convey that my friend was to be protected… to have no fear. He was able to quietly fall back to sleep at that time. He told me the story in the morning which still sent chills up my spine. He wondered why our ridgeback dog was sleeping in the basement bedroom. To which I told him, she wasn’t; both dogs were behind closed doors in my bedroom two floors above where he was sleeping. To this day, I am still unable to comprehend fully what happened that night. I remember asking him if he thought it could have been a bad dream to which my friend responded “No way. I was awake and scared to death”. Weird stuff.

Lastly, I have a theory. It is difficult for me to empirically study this theory but here it is just the same for your review and comment. I believe that a distinct calling card of demonic possession is the suicide of the one being possessed. That is not to say that all suicide victims are possessed; not at all. However, if you view significant criminal events such as the Columbine shootings here in Colorado, Harris and Klebold were very committed to killing as many people as possible on that April day in 1999. I don’t believe that they had any intention of doing anything but shooting it out with police forces and dying in the process while trying to take as many people with them as possible. Unexplainably, the two murderers, in the middle of their rampage, killed themselves. This is just one example of many, many similar incidents. Could it be that when the demonic force is through damaging lives and spreading evil that it causes the host to destroy himself upon the demon’s exit? I’m interested in your thoughts and observations. If I’m not mistaken, Hitler killed himself as well.

As to the possessed boy, Robbie, in 1949, who delivered him from the possession?... the Archangel Michael. This has distinct similarities with Daniel 10.

Sorry about the length of my ramblings.

[Brian Baldwin]

An interesting theory. I myself have always believed that Suicide is the ultimate form of selfishness. The ultimate sin if you will. I wonder what other connections we can find in that regard?

[MinutemanCO]

To further the topic just a bit, as I remember more of my studies... The Bible records at least two instances where demonically possessed people either did commit suicide or tried to repeatedly. Matthew 17:15 to 19 and Matthew 27:5.

The first instance a demon possessed boy repeatedly tried to throw himself into a fire and also tried to drown himself. In the second, Judas Iscariot killed himself after being inhabited by Satan himself and betraying Jesus.

Interesting.

[Aplomb]

Yes, when reading through the Bible, demons are at work consistently to harm the host. About getting into a group, I don't know about groups of people, but in the Word, Jesus sent the demons that he'd commanded to come out of a man to go into a herd of pigs when they'd begged it of him.

And MM, I believe that the dog that was at the feet of your friend was an angel. I have good reason to believe that, one of which is the message conveyed to your friend by that dog.

[MinutemanCO]

Thanks for validating this account. That was the only conclusion I could draw with my limited perspective. I wonder why a dog, though? ...Not to mention one of my dogs living at the time the account occurred.