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Thread: Active Appeasement

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    Default Active Appeasement

    ACTIVE APPEASEMENT
    by Michael A. Ledeen
    NRO
    October 9, 2006

    Our Iran policy.

    It may come as a surprise to Sy Hersh — who is hard at work on yet another fantasy claiming we are preparing to wage war on Iran — but the latest evidence points in the direction of active appeasement, masked by some kind of deal.

    The New York Times reported Sunday:

    James A. Baker III, the Republican co-chairman of a bipartisan commission assessing Iraq strategy for President Bush, said today that he expected the group to depart from Mr. Bush's call to "stay the course."

    In an interview on the ABC News program "This Week," Mr. Baker said, "I think it's fair to say our commission believes that there are alternatives between the stated alternatives, the ones that are out there in the political debate, of ‘stay the course' and ‘cut and run.' "

    Baker, who served Mr. Bush's father as secretary of state and White House chief of staff, did explicitly reject a rapid withdrawal from Iraq, which he said would only invite Iran, Syria and "even our friends in the gulf" to fill the power vacuum.

    The key word there is "rapid." Withdrawal is obviously very much alive in the mind of the legendary deal-maker who achieved immortality by brushing off suggestions he was not qualified to be secretary of State with the happy thought that politics is politics, whether at home or internationally. He is also a man who loves stability, and who famously sent his friend George H. W. Bush to deliver a stern warning to the Ukraine to abandon any thought of independence from the Soviet Union. I mean, if you don't have a Soviet Union, with whom are you going to make a deal?

    It looks more and more to me that David Frum's sensitive political nose was right, that the Bush administration is looking for an exit strategy, and that the strategy requires only a bit of verbal cooperation from the friendly mullahs in Tehran. If they will promise to behave, and "work with us to guarantee security" in Iraq, we will get out of their way, abandon the Iraqis to their doom, and leave the life-and-death question of how to deal with Iran to the next administration.

    There does not seem to be any forceful effective opposition to this course within the administration. Baker is no fool; he would not be making such statements to the Times unless he were confident of consensus. And indeed, in the London Telegraph we see that our brave democracy advocates in the State Department have been trying to set up the mechanism for our surrender:

    The Bush administration made secret overtures to former Iran president Mohammed Khatami during his visit to the United States last month in an attempt to establish a back channel via the ex-leader.

    American officials made the approach as part of a strategy to isolate Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Mr Khatami's hard-line successor, by using the former president as a conduit to the Iranian people.

    They also hoped that Mr Khatami would report his conversations to senior members of Iran's theocratic regime who are wary of the current president. Diplomatic sources said that "third parties" were authorised by Nicholas Burns, the US under-secretary of state responsible for relations with Iran, to talk to Mr Khatami in a step towards "engagement" with senior Iranians.

    This needs a bit of deconstruction. The most important sentence is the last. It tells us that the secretary of State (Burns, like Baker, is no fool; he would not authorize talks with the mullahs without Condoleezza Rice's say-so) has approved (still more) talks with the mullahs. Notice also that there is no reference to the celebrated nuclear question. This is all about "engagement," which is a baby step this side of "normalization."

    Finally, there is the disinformation that consists of the astonishing (even for a journalist) second paragraph. No adult can possibly believe that secret talks (of which there have been many, throughout this administration) could isolate President Ahmadinejad. For us to ask for such talks will be seen in Tehran, and throughout the region, for what is is: retreat. And a great part of the credit for bringing us to our knees will go to Ahmadinejad, who has been guaranteeing this outcome in very forceful terms.

    So it seems we are hell-bent on making a deal that will put some sort of honorable patina on our delivery of Iraq into the hands of the Islamic Republic. It will be interesting to see if the deal can be made. Even close friends of Baker, such as Brent Scowcroft, are on the record saying (after an encounter with Ahmadinejad) there is no hope of reaching a reasonable modus vivendi with Tehran. And on the Iranian side, it is dangerous to be seen dealing with Washington. Those who have tried it in the past have come to grief, because the Islamic Republic is based in large part on hatred of America. That is why Iran has been waging war against us for 27 years. So while the Iranians may recognize that this is a delicious victory, it is poisoned by the risk of fracturing their own ranks, and even encouraging their restless people to view the whole charade as an Iranian surrender to an American diktat.

    None of this is likely to dampen the enthusiasm of the Rices and the Bakers, who, let it be recalled, fought as hard as they could to preserve the territorial and political integrity of our ancient Soviet enemy. And once the Soviet empire imploded, Secretary of State Baker and President Bush warned against any American celebration of its downfall. Baker is not the sort of man who welcomes world-historical events, or, for that matter, world-historical figures who prefer victory to a good deal. In his (very lengthy) memoir of his years at State, Baker did not deign to mention the role of Pope John Paul II.

    It may be that the mullahs, now more convinced than ever that history is running in their favor, will not be interested in providing us with a fig leaf to cover our feckless nakedness, and will press on to humiliate us. They might well reason that only a clear-cut victory would give them the boost they need in their quest for regional hegemony, itself a way station on Ahmadinejad's announced intention to rule the world in the name of the 12th Imam.

    One might ask the Brits what they think about the likelihood of Iranian cooperation in providing the long-suffering Iraqis with decent security. I see in the Telegraph that the Queen's Royal Hussars in Iraq have found a way "to double the time spent watching the porous border with Iran for smugglers carrying bombs, funs and cash to fuel the insurgency..."

    What a pity! We first failed to see that we would inevitably have to fight a regional war if we were to win in Iraq. Then, insisting on our myopia, we designed tactics to play defense in Iraq alone. And now we seem to have turned to the diplomats to "solve" the problem. They can't do it. They can only guarantee the war will expand, the Iranians will become stronger and more aggressive, and many more people will die even as the diplomats celebrate their own surrender.

    On the other hand, the template of American foreign policy seems to dictate that we be saved by our enemies, and rarely through our own brilliance. It may seem paradoxical that our best hope lies with the fanatics in Tehran, but there you have it.

    www.benadorassociates.com/article/20115

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    Senior Member Joey Bagadonuts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    The Bush administration made secret overtures to former Iran president Mohammed Khatami during his visit to the United States last month in an attempt to establish a back channel via the ex-leader.
    .......please say it ain't so.
    JUST when I think that Bush can't disappoint me any more....he does it again.


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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    the administration really REALLY REALLY ought to KNOW better!!!!

    ev

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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Well ev, Joey you haven't seen nothing yet. Wait until you read the report on Iraq headed up by James Barker, small bits of the report are starting to come out and I can tell you you will not like what it states.

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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Far be it for me to worry about things like this... but, when you say "Bush and crew" dunno what they are doing, are you sure about that? Just because he's not doing things like YOU might do it.....

    No, of course, Clinton really did some bad crap and I only heard the Right wing pointing it out.

    Now, what is wrong with... 1) Opening a "back channel", 2) continuing talks with the bully while you're weightlifting in the evenings.... or 3) preping for war if necessary?

    I'm confused.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Donaldson View Post
    Now, what is wrong with... 1) Opening a "back channel", 2) continuing talks with the bully while you're weightlifting in the evenings.... or 3) preping for war if necessary?
    General Observations:

    1. Back Channels are a good thing. We've always had them, always will have them for as long as mankind holds dominion over this earth. They are a fact of life in this world.

    2. Talking to the bully via that "Back Channel" serves many purposes, all of which we seek to utilize for our benefit and agenda. If nothing else, one utilization is too keep that bully off-balance, distracted or confused in his own right.

    3. If #2 is working bully might never see #3 in-bound and hot.

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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Ok, so I guess my misplaced logic is correct then, Sean?

    What I'm seeing here is venting and ranting on Bush.... because of some personality issues people might have with the former president of Iran.

    Don't get me wrong here Falcon, that clown is no angel. Neither is the current thug, whose even worse in my opinion. But this continued "putting down" of the current administration because you and other disagree with their particular take on things isn't relevant to the issue at hand, nor for that matter does it mean you happen to know more than the administration, intellgence and perhaps the CIA folks who are doing the "back channels".
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Rick Donaldson; wrote;
    Don't get me wrong here Falcon, that clown is no angel. Neither is the current thug, whose even worse in my opinion. But this continued "putting down" of the current administration because you and other disagree with their particular take on things isn't relevant to the issue at hand, nor for that matter does it mean you happen to know more than the administration, intellgence and perhaps the CIA folks who are doing the "back channels".
    Don't get me wrong Rick, if you think I am going to keep my opioins to myself you are saddly mistaken. I have my right to voice my opioin and I believe I have done that within a respectful manner. Also I never said I had more intel that the CIA, FBI, etc. The are some issues that I know just a little more about than you since I have loveones still in Iran. If you want to Band because I have told it like it is then you go do that. Just make sure you have a very clear cut case. I don't see you picking on the others who posted statements to this thread so why are you picking me out.

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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Hiya Rick,

    I have 2 things that bother me with Bush's "back door overtures".

    #1. I just don't trust him anymore. He's lost my trust and the trust many more American's by his action/inaction on two issues:
    A.) NOT securing our borders.
    B.) The sneaky, underhanded, "going behind the public's back" maneuverings in regard to the NASCO/NAFTA Superhighway.

    #2. The leadership of Iran hates, despises, loathes us. They want us DEAD. What Bush is doing is akin to appealing to Hitler AND the Devil, rolled in one. At the least....I think he's setting himself up to be embarrassed, and I can't help but feel that he's being naive. Do you really believe that these "secret" talks will accomplish anything except to feed the Iranian leadership's ego and to give them a chance to use these talks against us somehow? They see this as weakness on our part.

    This is one case where all dealings with a nationlike Iran have to be out in the open, honest and above board. For all the world to see. I believe that sooner or later push is going to come to shove with Iran, and at that time we'll need as many allies as possible. We need to keep things open...for all the world to see.

    Look, I voted for this guy twice and I support him as President but I won't be silent when I think he's made a mistake...and I DON'T trust him anymore. There has been too much "backdoor" dealings in this country.

    He's going to have to EARN my trust again and millions of others also if he wants it.


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    ...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    If you persist inbeing an asshole and putting down the President, then I'll take action against you.

    I dont give a fuck about your opinions, I care about FACTS and DATA. So far, you haven t provided any, and you still havent provided any for your bullshit remarks about Rice yet.

    I do think that you are barking up the wrong tree.

    Now, dont get me wrong, I dont make idle threats either.
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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    You know, I'll tell you why I am pissed here instead of leaving you in the dark to fend for yourselves.

    READ that god damned article you posted and tell me precisely who it was that WROTE the article and IMPLIED these so-called backdoor things are going on.
    Let me TELL YOU.
    New YORK TIMEs

    LONDON TELEGRAPH.

    How about you understand that what you're RERADING is NOT factual. There is NOEVIDENCE AT ALL there have been any backdoor talks. That is COMPLETE and UTTER supposition on the part of those leftist f-kers at both those paers and just because NRO writes about it does NOT make it LEGITIMATE.

    instead, like good CONSPIACY THEORISTS you, Falcon, and sorry, you too Joey, take this shit as gospel.

    And then you use it to find a REASoN to put BUSH down.

    WRONG answer.

    Show me some real evidence for secret talks.

    If they are SECRET then you dont know abot them and neither does the news paper.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Hiya Rick,

    If you persist inbeing an asshole and putting down the President, then I'll take action against you.

    I dont give a fuck about your opinions, I care about FACTS and DATA. So far, you haven t provided any, and you still havent provided any for your bullshit remarks about Rice yet.

    I do think that you are barking up the wrong tree.

    Now, dont get me wrong, I dont make idle threats either.
    Who was this directed at? Who were you calling an asshole?

    ***
    ...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    First of all Rick 1. I don't like your use of your schoolboy language you talk like a person who comes from filthly pit, so you need your mouthwasted out with some soap. Thats for your uneducated type writting, you need to learn how to express your self in away that is meaningfull to people. 2. I really don't care about what you like or dislike in the way you present yourselve, when you start acting like a gentlemen then I may listen.

    If you persist inbeing an asshole and putting down the President, then I'll take action against you.

    I dont give a fuck about your opinions, I care about FACTS and DATA. So far, you haven t provided any, and you still havent provided any for your bullshit remarks about Rice yet.
    3. It seems that you have very limited knowledge of who Mr. Michael A. Ledeen is or anything about his back ground, go check out his back ground before you start taking people to task.

    So here is a little background on

    Mr.Michael A. Ledeen, who holds the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute, objects to being called a conservative. Instead Ledeen, a regular contributor to National Review Online, prefers the term “democratic revolutionary.” What's more, Ledeen says that “most self-described leftists today are reactionaries, and have lost the right to describe themselves as people of the left.” 2 Ledeen prides himself on being a public intellectual who has over the past few decades been directly involved in shaping and implementing U.S. foreign policy. He is a prolific author who has written 15 books, including recent ones on terrorism, Tocqueville, and Machiavelli, who Ledeen often cites in explaining his views along with Leo Strauss, another leading influence on neoconservatives like himself. Rather than advocating a conservative foreign policy, Ledeen and other neoconservatives say they are committed to “democratic revolution.”
    “Michael Ledeen is a Renaissance man in the tradition of Machiavelli,” said Ted Koppel.
    Along with many other neoconservatives, Ledeen's main institutional affiliation is with the American Enterprise Institute, the think tank that has provided the Bush administration with at least 20 officials and continues to help shape the administration's foreign policy.
    Karl Rove, when he served as Bush's policy analyst, regularly consulted with Ledeen on foreign policy issues. When the Washington Post published a list of the people whom Karl Rove, President George W. Bush's closest adviser, regularly consulted for advice outside the administration, foreign policy veterans were shocked when Michael Ledeen popped up as the only full-time international affairs analyst, wrote Jim Lobe of Inter Press Service

    As for your
    threats this is another issue, so I want to know what you mean by, your statement? This is a very serious and grave statement to be making, I my holding back in making any judgement here at this time or to take other actions.
    then I'll take action against you.
    So Rick when you can come and write in a civil manner then we can discuss the issues.


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    Senior Member Joey Bagadonuts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Active Appeasement

    Hiya Rick,

    Please disregard my previous post.
    I was confused but it's been cleared up.

    ***
    ...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

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