Historical or Prophetic Events on Temple Mount (Jerusalem)

[Sean Osborne]

This thread is being created for Segestan's post and any similar posts which are directly related to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem - be they historical references (proven or unproven) of prophetic (fulfilled or unfulfilled).

[Sean Osborne]

Here's the original post by Segestan.

Originally posted by Segestan:

In the year 362 , desirous of proving the fallacy of the prophecies , Julian surnamed the Apostate, after abandoning Christianity for paganism was determined to rebuild the Temple of Jerusalem ; but " horrible balls of fire , breaking out near the foundations , rendered the place inaccessible to the scorched and blasted workmen"

I am curious;What do you Sean know of this event ?

regards,

[Sean Osborne]

According to an entry at Wikipedia regarding this allegation (it is NOT an established historial FACT - it is an allegation of one) of an effort by "Julian the Apostate"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_the_Apostate

In 363 (AD), Julian, on his way to engage Persia, stopped at the ruins of the Second Temple in Jerusalem. In keeping with his effort to foster religions other than Christianity, Julian ordered the Temple rebuilt. A personal friend of his, Ammianus Marcellinus, wrote this about the effort:

"Julian thought to rebuild at an extravagant expense the proud Temple once at Jerusalem, and committed this task to Alypius of Antioch. Alypius set vigorously to work, and was seconded by the governor of the province; when fearful balls of fire, breaking out near the foundations, continued their attacks, till the workmen, after repeated scorchings, could approach no more: and he gave up the attempt."

The failure to rebuild the Temple has been ascribed to an earthquake, common in the region, and to the Jews' ambivalence about the project. Sabotage is a possibility, as is an accidental fire. Divine intervention was the common view among Christian historians of the time.

This Wiki entry leaves off with an Endnote which redirects to two links, only one of which is actually working:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/julian-jews.html


A Google search of the criteria "Julian the Apostate and the Holy Temple" leads to several hits. This one is interesting:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Empi...-apostate.html

II. The Failure To Rebuild the Temple, 363

Though the emperor hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the [biblical] patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning [the allegorical meaning, through which the Christians could prove the validity of Christianity from the Old Testament].

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the Temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the Temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. [Sacrifice was permitted by Jewish law only in Jerusalem.] The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense.

The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. [Since Jesus in the New Testament had prophesied the destruction of the Temple, its rebuilding would make of him a false prophet.] Besides this motive, the Jews themselves [relying on the sympathy of Julian] were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their Temple.

When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the Temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body.



When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Church Father here records his belief that the Temple could not be rebuilt.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their Temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the Temple, and consumed several of the workmen. [J. M. Campbell in the Scottish Review, 1900, believed that an explosion of oil put an end to the work. This sounds fanciful.]

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the Temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded - directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful.

A more tangible and still more extraordinary miracle ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses looked like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the Temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were unable to commence it.

Here's another:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=716&letter=J

The most important incident in his career that is associated with Jewish history is his proposal to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. This novel suggestion was propounded by him in a letter addressed to the "Community of the Jews," at the beginning of the year 363. In this epistle Julian alludes to his abolition of the heavy taxes which had been imposed upon the Jews and to his desire to treat them amicably.


Promise to Restore the Temple.


"Desiring to extend yet further favors to you, I have exhorted my brother, the venerable Patriarch Julos [i.e., Hillel II.], to put a stop to the collection of the so-called Apostolé [see Jew. Encyc. ii. 20, s.v.] among you; and henceforward no one will be able to oppress your people by the collection of such imposts, so that everywhere throughout my kingdom you may be free from care: and thus enjoying freedom, you may address still more fervent prayers for my empire to the Almighty Creator of the Universe, who has deigned to crown me with his own undefiled right hand.

. . . Thus should you do, in order that when I return safely from the Persian war, I may restore the Holy City of Jerusalem, and rebuild it at my own expense, even as you have for so many years desired it to be restored; and therein will I unite with you in giving praise to the Almighty."


This promise of the emperor, which must have raised joyous hopes in the hearts of the Jews, was destined not to be realized. The work probably was never commenced; for Julian fell in the war against Persia, and with his death the condition of Israel changed for the worse.


Many eminent writers upon Jewish and Church history, however, believe that the work of rebuilding the Temple was commenced immediately after the above-mentioned letter was written, but that, owing to certain strange causes which are explained in different ways, it was unexpectedly interrupted. Grätz, Gibbon, and Milman accept this view; but a careful inquiry into the evidence for the opinion results in tracing its origin to a fanciful legend first narrated by a bitter Christian enemy of Julian, Gregory Nazienzus. This fable is the source of the account given by the heathen historian Ammianus
Marcellinus, and of the various versions detailed by the Church chroniclers. The only references in Jewish writings to the project of the emperor are to be met with in works of the sixteenth century, which references are without independent value.


The cause of the almost complete silence of the Jerusalem Talmud on Julian is supposed by Grätz ("Gesch." 2d ed., iv. 372) to have been the fact that the restoration of the Temple was not thought of otherwise than in connection with the appearance of the Messiah, as whom a Roman emperor could not be considered. Bacher has shown that the Palestinian amora, R. Aḥa (see Jew. Encyc. i 276, s.v. Aḥa [Aḥai] III.), who was a contemporary of Julian, voices a different sentiment, and that he possibly refers to the plan of Julian in such sayings as: "The Temple will be rebuilt before the appearance of the Davidic kingdom" (Yer. Ma'as. Sh. 56a); "Five things were missing in the Second Temple: fire, the Ark, Urim and Thummim, anointing-oil, and the Shekinah"—hinting that the Third Temple might be built even without these (Yer. Ta'an. 65a). Julian is also mentioned by name in Yer. Ned. 37d, where the expedition of against the Persians is referred to. There is no need to change the reading to , as Grätz (l.c. p. 492) has done (see "J. Q. R." x. 168). G.

It appears as if Julian the Apostate did issue some proclamation about the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and the assumption of some people is that this included the Temple. However, there appears to be no evidence that the work was ever begun, and the tales about fires burning the workmen may be nothing but myth.

[Segestan]

Thank you Sean for the interesting response , and for taking the effort to place my post as a separate topic. However, Do you have any comment on the Cycle of Indications topic that was also part of my posting?

regards,

[Sean Osborne]

Do you have any comment on the Cycle of Indications

No, I don't have any comment on such a "cycle of indications" because nothing of the sort exists within Biblical prophecy in general or Biblical prophecies regarding the Temple Mount specifically.