The day after

[frankrm]

Just watched the Movie the Day After for the first time. It was to reafirm in my spirit what seems not too far ahead. The other thing that is disturbing is the fact that we have become dumbed down to believe that nothing will happen primarily by the fact that we have no preparations for such a thing. I was dissapointed after moving to a more conservative part of my state to find that the local paper mimmics the Liberals on the coast with items such as those who watch Fox news are idiots, those who reacted correctly to the taunting of the Muslim Immans on a plane recently are biggots and those who think there was a conspiracy by the Soviets to eliminate the warnings of a former KGB agent were conspiracy loonies, that it was just a suicide by a disgruntled former agent.

With the indications here that we have less then 6 months to respond to the current build up in the ME it seems the ultimate solution is not far behind. We do not seem to have the will or the sence to deal correctly with this trap that is being set. It seems to me we have become spiritualy blind and no longer are able to do the right thing therefore we will not be prepared as a nation and the scenario of that movie will be played out.

I know of no other way of being prepared than to be right with my maker.

[American Patriot]

I've been looking all over for that movie.

Where'd you find it?

[frankrm]

I got it at a place called Bi Rite, an employee run store here in Wenatchee Washington. There is no happy ending which is usualy the theme of most movies in this hemisphere.

[Ryan Ruck]

Rick,
Point your clicker here.

[Aplomb]

I just saw the movie for the first time about a month ago. I bought the DVD at a pawn shop for $5.00 plus tax. No scratches or any other problems. (By the way, there are some rare finds at pawn shops. For 2 bucks I bought "Stolen Honor" "It's the story John Kerry doesn't want you to hear.")

[mike taylor]

This movie has recently been appearing on the Sci Fi channel.

Caught the begining and the end on Friday(or Sat. Dont recall. OD'd on turkey leftovers.)

A must see.

[Ryan Ruck]

There is no happy ending which is usualy the theme of most movies in this hemisphere.

And that in a way was the one nit I had to pick with the film.

I felt it was just too pessimistic with its message (much as I feel Jericho has been too optimistic!).

They could have improved their message by contrasting those who were ill and dying from radiation sickness with, perhaps, a group that prepared and followed civil defense measures and were surviving reasonably well.

But, truth be told, I suspect this underlying pessimism was exactly what they were going for being that this was produced by Hollyweird which then (and now) opposed President Reagan's strong pro-nukes stance. They wanted to show that nuke war is not survivable by anyone and we should just get rid of them all and hold hands.

But, I suppose it is good for showing what happens if you decide not to prepare at least on some level.

[frankrm]

Do you realy think there will be a good outcome for those who survive here? There realy is no good outcome save leaving this world. Better put your hope in something else, put it in something most people ignore until it is too late.

[American Patriot]

Do you realy think there will be a good outcome for those who survive here? There realy is no good outcome save leaving this world. Better put your hope in something else, put it in something most people ignore until it is too late.

Actually, Frank just before you replied I'd posted something here and the system crashed here or something, my message is now in a bit bucket someplace, but I actually answered that question before you asked it.

No, I don't think it is "better to put your hope in something else" -- especially if you're talking about religion. While I personally don't practice any particular religion, nor do I advocate someone shoving it down others' throats like the Muslims and some radical Christians like to do on a regular basis, I will say that anyone is certainly free to believe as they wish.

However, I will also say it's a whole lot of malarky when it comes to the here and now, survival and living day to day.

People who put their stock solely in religious beliefs and never training themselves for disaster, and first aid, and helping others are doing themselves and mankind a disservice.

Ok-- call me arrogant if you like, but, you know what? I've heard the same silliness out of those that believe Aliens genetically created the human race and are some day coming back to take over, and we're to bow and scape to them as well.

I do NOT see God in every day life. I don't see Aliens around here either. I don't see miracles all the time, but I have seen miracles happen. Are they the work of a Divine being? I dunno. Perhaps they are, and that's great.

But what I can't do for myself, I don't expect others to do for me. Unless I'm so completely incapacitated that my family has to care for me, but if it comes to that, I'll do what I can to remove myself from that situation, without help if I can.

Point being is that we are creatures of habit, we do things we do every day really without thinking through the consequences of our actions, and sometimes our actions do bad things to others. Sometimes others do bad things to us. No matter what, God, nor no other "supreme being" is insigating this behavior.

Furthermore, He (and no one else) is instigating what might be with nuclear war. A real, beneovolent God wouldn't do those things. He wouldn't kill for the sake of killing, nor allow it for the sake of killing. He'd step up to the plate and show himself and say "STOP... Let me show you the right way to get along and then if you still want to kill one another, don't let me interfere".

But, if *I* were Him, I'd turn my back on the human race after that.

That's why I don't put an awful lot of stock in Bible stories. God might exist and be there, and certainly I believe Jesus was here, visited and died just as the stories say, on the Cross.

But... no one is helping us now, execpt ourselves, and me putting my faith in a Church or religion is NOT going to prevent my house from getting fallout when a nuke hits us.

It's not going to keep me alive when downtown and the church itself is incinerated.

It's NOT going to teach me how to give CPR, grow my own foods, learn to shoot and skin animals for food.

It's NOT going to assist me in anything other than being docile when the time comes to fight -- and listening to people tell me to turn the other cheek.

Your belief (or anyone's belief) in God is not what I am questioning. What I am questioning is, "Why give up, when there is so much to live for?" --

If you think that there won't be survivors after a nuclear strike on this country, well, you're just completely wrong. And if you want to join the "I'm getting my six-pack and lawn chair to watch the fireworks" crowd, well, Sir, more power to you.

I'll move my family out of the danger zone after the nukes hit, when things have calmed a bit, and I'll regroup with other humans who are willing to fight to survive and preserve what we call "Freedom".

It might be a nuclear wasteland, but by God (yes, I said that) I WILL survive. And I'll do it with, or without His help. God isn't there to direct your life to the point of surrender.

He is there to direct your life to the point of success.

[frankrm]

Considering your location I would say that you will not survive an attack no matter what you determine. You will not be given any heads up to take off no matter how much you read the internet because the iron hand of the Soviets will make sure of that. However there are some that will escape, some who will be given a heads up just as has happened many times before. One example are my Russian Christian friends who were warned to leave the Soviet Union while other Christians mocked them.

We were given an example on how to live and we were warned of the consequences if we didn't. Shall we then call it a cleansing by fire?

We all want to think we can do things better than God, but we have such limited understanding. God gave us a free will and did not force us to do anything. But he did warn us that there would be consequences for making bad choices, and from that there is no escape.

I was once a liberal and an athiest. But one day I realized that if I am realy open minded it would not hurt me to read the bible with an open mind just to see what it realy said. That was all that was needed. I was very fortunate, one moment in the presence of God will erase all your disbelief and doubt.
Do you realy have an open mind?

[American Patriot]

Sir, I beg to differ. I might not survive, but I probably will, as will tens of thousands of others around the area. Why? Because most likely such things will occur at night, and they will happen when we're NOT at installations. Or if we ARE at installations, I WILL be notified. Immediately.

Given my position, job and where I'm located, I'll be the FIRST to know, before the media, before anyone else.

So... this is one of the reason *I* take my survival stuff seriously.

Do I have an open mind? Yes. Am I Christian? That's for me and God to know. NO ONE ELSE. I refuse ever to profess one religion over another, but I certainly WILL defend those who are Christian above those who try to kill them. I know that's vague but that's my answer to you.

Have I read the Bible. Yes, many times. Can I stand toe to toe with the bible scholars out here? Probably. Do I? No, and I don't for a reason, because it is a RELIGION, a BELIEF. NONE of it is based on "facts", just stories that the religious person is required to take on FAITH.

Well, I don't take a whole lot on faith when it comes to living or dying. I KNOW what I am doing at all times, plan to do in the event of emergencies and know that MY LIFE is in MY hands, not someone elses. Not someone I can't see, nor who answers me in a way I can see and understand.

I plan on keeping my own self alive, if I am not killed in an initial blast. And that isn't up to God, and it ain't up to the Russians. It's up to where the missile and war head hit.

in the mean time, I wanted to say something about the movie.

I did buy a copy today for 9 bucks.

I saw it when it first came out, I watched it exactly once. The movie was very... surreal and I remember large pieces of it, which I do not do with other movies.

It was, in my opinoin, well done and graphic enough to let you see the facts, as well, I think accurate enough to give details regarding survival.

As Ryan pointed out,

They could have improved their message by contrasting those who were ill and dying from radiation sickness with, perhaps, a group that prepared and followed civil defense measures and were surviving reasonably well.

something they didn't do, but as has also been pointed out, it's likely because there were a lot of anti-Reagan folks at the time and "Star Wars' was the words upon their lips -- those who were protesters.

Well, folks STAR WARS is here, NOW today, live and in your face and it works and the other countries do not like it. I'm sure there are holes in it, and I'm sure missiles can get through, and certainly terrorists who've not the means to launch ICBMs will come up with other ways that fall under the radar.

But regardless, the THREAT exists and "Star Wars" -- the Missile Defense Agency DOES exist, and they are doing everything in their power now to mitigate such a nuclear reality.

Can it happen? Yes it still can and it can be much worse than this movie portrays. As Ryan says though, there are those of use who plan to survive - and as I say, there are those who plan to give up.

My question is, which one are you?>

[frankrm]

First of all you make the false assumption that Christians can not fight. Secondly you make the false assumption that it will happen at night. It will happen in the middle of a perfectly clear Indian summer day. Don't ask.
Thirdly, how far do you plan to get in 20 minutes.
You may have read the bible but you certainly don't have an open mind.
Its hard to reach some one who refuses to admit that there opinions might be formed from false information.
The world did not happen by accident and neither did you.
You do not have to see electricity or gravity to know that it exists.
There are consequences for everything we do. We just have to be honest and acknowledge that.

[MagnetMan]

Not to interupt the argument, but this movie is available on Netflix for anyone else who has it. I've added it to my queue now.

[frankrm]

I might add that this event is very likely to occur prior to Bush's term ending. One more terror strike will occur that will be on a scale that will cause internal chaos. The Persian Gulf will close at around the same time. Lastly;China will attack Taiwan, we will respond and the Soviets wil hit us while our back is turned and that is it. JR Nyquist site has some good info on grey, pink and red terror in which the soviets will use to take us down.
So get ready now, don't delay, make peace with your maker and you will overcome the terror.

[Backstop]

I watched it last year for the first time - rented it from Blockbuster.

I was impressed that the movie (IMO) accurately portrayed the enormous number of casualties - an amount that completely overwhelmed the medical system(s) of that area. Because I believe that is exactly what will happen.

[American Patriot]

First of all you make the false assumption that Christians can not fight.

I made NO SUCH ASSUMPTION

Secondly you make the false assumption that it will happen at night. It will happen in the middle of a perfectly clear Indian summer day. Don't ask.

It is not a false assumption that it will hapen at night. I happen to see and read the intelligence. You do not, I'm sure. And I will ask, why do you think that? Because the Bible tells you so? Show me where it says that.

Thirdly, how far do you plan to get in 20 minutes.

You misunderstand, in 20 minutes I can be away from a facility or in the shelters. I don't need to "leave".

You may have read the bible but you certainly don't have an open mind.

You're just one more idiot who wants to tell me "You dont have an open mind" because I don't believe in the same stuff you believe.

Its hard to reach some one who refuses to admit that there opinions might be formed from false information.

Here's my point. DON'T try to reach people. You do what YOU think is necessary for yourself. If that is praying, fine. If you don't bother to prepare yourself for SURVIVAL, that's fine too, leaves more food for me when you're gone. Trying to PREACH to people about salvation is a waste of time if they neither want to be Saved, or they've already gone through it. So, please don't make any more idiotic assumptions about ME or MY background like you did above. Furthermore, don't tell me I'm wrong when it comes to religion. I'm not. |

Religion as Mr. Marx so aptly put it is the opiate of the masses. You continue to follow whatever protocols you wish, and I'll follow mine. If you want to preach religion in the face of destruction, certainly feel free to do so. But do NOT tell ME and OTHERS that it is "the ONLY way".

The world did not happen by accident and neither did you.

You don't know the world didn't happen by accident. I know I didn't.

You do not have to see electricity or gravity to know that it exists.

You're right. But that same logic is applied to God, Aliens, Conspiracy theories and a lot of utter nonsense besides those things. So, your logic is FLAWED.

There are consequences for everything we do. We just have to be honest and acknowledge that

You're right there... So you need to stop and think logically and acknowledge that sitting on your ass, doing absolutely nothing but praying will GET YOU KILLED.

[Backstop]

Rick, I think frankrm felt you were saying Christians should not fight from this statement.

It's NOT going to assist me in anything other than being docile when the time comes to fight -- and listening to people tell me to turn the other cheek.

I'll admit it left me wondering if that is what you meant.

[Aplomb]

Yep, that's also what I was thinking. And Rick, I think you know that I am a Christian yet I am not a pacifist. Thanks for clarifying that. I'll be right there beside you when the time comes, as you know.

[American Patriot]

No.. I make no assumptions. When I see people say things, I take them at their word. Let me clear this up now...

Frank made the following statement... this is what set me off.

Do you realy think there will be a good outcome for those who survive here? There realy is no good outcome save leaving this world. Better put your hope in something else, put it in something most people ignore until it is too late.

Let's examine this carefully. First he asks the question about whether we think there will be a good outcome. MY answer to that is YES there is ALWAYS good in what we do for ourselves when it comes to picking up the pieces after a disaster. Is everyone's outcome as GOOD as everyone else? NO. People die, people will get sick, people would be incinerated in a nuclear attack.

Some will live. Some of them will die later from radiation poisoning.

MANY WILL LIVE.

Next he makes a blanket statement that "there is NO good outcome EXCEPT TO DIE.

That is blantant, unmitigated bullshit. Dying is NOT the only option has he has put it -- and he states it is the BEST outcome. THAT is GIVING UP.

And rather than to say something meaningful about how to prepare yourself for SURVIVAl, instead he falls back on the medieval logic of "better to hope for something better" than to ACTUALLY WORK YOUR ASS OFF TO PREPARE.

Am I CLEAR NOW?

I didn't rattle the cage with the religious remarks, he did. And... when you post a thread in the "World At War" discussing a movie, like he did, then intersperse the discussion with religious "teachings", then you're preaching.

Like anomalies, there is a place and time for religious discussions, and it is NOT when you're discussing war, not when you're reviewing a movie, and certainly not when you're doing both and trying to get people to "see the Light".

take the religious crap elsewhere.

[Backstop]

OK - Thanks, Rick.

BTW; when necessary, my God wants me to kick ass.

Heavenly Authorization, if you will.