Current Events and Biblical Prophecy II

[Sean Osborne]

I am going to begin a Part II thread and migrate much of the posts I have on the original thread to right here and post new items in this thread. There is a great deal going in right now which immediately bring Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39, among others, to mind.

I'll get to the task at hand here asap.

For starters however, I am going to post Hal Lindsey's latest from World Net Daily. This is exactly the same assessment I have been making for years now and current events are consistent with the Ezekiel prophecy he speaks of.

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which follows.
To view this item online, visit http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=47932


Friday, December 16, 2005

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Islam's most reliable ally

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Posted: December 16, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern




By Hal Lindsey

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© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


In a speech in Chechnya this week, Russian President Vladimir Putin reminded the Islamic world; "Russia has always been the most faithful, reliable and consistent defender of the interests of the Islamic world," Putin said. "Russia has always been the best and most reliable partner and ally."
"Always" might be a stretch. Russia's series of wars with the Muslim Ottoman Empire – spanning 241 years from the 17th to 19th centuries – inspired countless inspirational songs and poems. Historians credit the Russo-Turkish wars as a main cause of the decline of the Ottoman Empire.

It was the fall of the Ottoman Empire that created the modern Middle East – including Israel – so Islam's "most reliable ally" is also indirectly responsible for Islam's current state of affairs.
Be that as it may, Putin's statement about being "Islam's most reliable defender" is true if one goes back no further than the Cold War. As America's attention was focused on Western Europe, particularly during the late '40s and early '50s, the Soviet Union was quietly creating Soviet satellite states across the Middle East.
In each of its five wars against the Arab world, Israel faced the best Soviet weaponry Islam could buy. When Putin spoke of Russia as Islam's most "faithful, reliable and consistent defender of the interests of the Islamic world," it implied Russian support for the primary Islamic goal – annihilating Israel.
Even after the Cold War ended the spy vs. spy game of alliance-building, Russia, as Putin noted, remained "consistent" in its defense of the interests of the Islamic world – with Islam's chief interest remaining the annihilation of Israel.
Russia's alliance with Islam was an accidental consequence of the Cold War – as noted, prior to the Soviet Union, Russia was the Ottoman Empire's Islamic caliphate's bitterest enemy. The Russians were drawn into the Middle East out of necessity by the demands of the Cold War, but they remained after the Cold War out of a need to maintain existing alliances.
In a sense, Russia had no other choice but to sleep in the bed the Soviets made for her. Russia committed all of her chips to Islam's side with the decision to make Iran a nuclear power.
Israel's intelligence services told Israeli lawmakers that by late March, Iran would have reached the "point of no return" in its quest for nuclear weapons. The IAEA's Mohammed el Baradei gave the United Nations a similarly dismal assessment.
Taken together with Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent public comments advocating "wiping Israel off the map," the London Sunday Times recent assessment that Israel is readying a military strike against Iranian nuclear sites is probably more accurate than the Israelis would like it to be.
Iran's entire nuclear program has been engineered and overseen by Russia. It is worth billions of dollars to Russia's cash-strapped economy.
Iran's nuclear facilities are crawling with Russian technicians, scientists, advisers, security and military personnel – and, in many cases, their families. A strike against these facilities would undoubtedly kill many of them, including some of the cream of Russia's nuclear scientists.
In such a case, the Russians would not just shrug their shoulders, bury their dead, and head back to Moscow to explain to their investors that Israel blew up all their investments.
The Hebrew prophet Ezekiel, writing from captivity in Babylon over 2,500 years ago, foretold the rise of a great military alliance "in the latter times" that would mount an invasion force against Israel. The alliance will be led by Gog [modern Russia] together with Persia [modern Iran] which includes most Muslim nations of the Middle East and North Africa.
In light of that, it is fascinating to watch as Russia is being inexorably drawn into the Middle Eastern conflict, almost against its better judgment. As "Islam's greatest defender," Russia is being driven by strategic and economic interests that virtually give it no other choice.



This perfectly fulfills the role Ezekiel predicted for Russia. Ezekiel predicted concerning a people from the extreme north of Israel known as Gog:

I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out ... In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely.
– Ezekiel 38:4a, 8b

There is only one nation to the extreme north of Israel, Russia. (See Ezekiel 3:6, 15; 39:2) And Meshech and Tubal (39:1), predicted as the ancient pro-genitors of this northern people, are the source of the ancient Scythians, who are the source of the modern ethnic Russians.
Ezekiel penned his prophecy in the 6th century B.C., 1,000 years before Muhammad, 2,000 years before Columbus, and 2,500 years before Israel's restoration.
His prophecy and the forecasts of modern-day secular futurists examining current geopolitical trends differ with Ezekiel's vision only in one point: Israel survives and wins the war.
For the first time in history, the conditions necessary for the Ezekiel Scenario to move forward are all in place at the same time.

What does this tell us? First, it means that the Bible proves its Divine inspiration by the test God gave to the first writing Prophet, Moses, in Deuteronomy 18:21-22. God threw His gauntlet into the arena and said that the proof of His Word would be 100 percent accuracy in prophecies given to His prophets.
This also means that time is short before the return of the King. If you haven't accepted the gift of Pardon that Jeshua Ha'Messhiac purchased for you by His death at Golgotha's cross, time is running out. Wouldn't it be great to accept the ultimate gift of eternal life at this Christmas time? Your choice will determine your eternal destiny.

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Hal Lindsey is the best-selling non-fiction writer alive today. Among his 20 books are "Late Great Planet Earth," his follow-up on that explosive best seller, Planet Earth: The Final Chapter," and "Everlasting Hatred: The Roots of Jihad." He writes this weekly column exclusively for WorldNetDaily. Be sure to visit his website, where he provides up-to-the-minute analysis of today's world events in the light of ancient prophecies.

[Sean Osborne]

Interestingly enough, it was 10 months ago today that the current thread which I am copying certain posts from was begun. Instead of being the "II" thread this will be "the" thread, a continuation of the former. The next few posts will be carry overs i think important.

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The text of this post has been deleted by myself. Upon detailed review I reject the interpretation of the author. Isaiah 17 deos not occur during the 7-year Tribulation, but is a precursor event as is the War of Gog/Magog found in Ezekiel 38/39.

[Sean Osborne]

The following chapter of Isaiah 18 and this authors interpretation of it is most disturbing to be sure... yet according to other Biblical propecy it appears to be accurate ... Israel will stand alone in the "last days prior to Messiah's return" and be delivered from those who seek her destruction -- but not by US intervention.

It is God's will that the Israeli's see it is Him who delivers them... not the US, and not the peace Covenant they very soon WILL SIGN with a world leader most likely from EUROPE as it's champion.

The signing of that peace covenant begins a series of events which will shake the planet to its very foundation and culminate in the physical return of Jesus Christ to this earth at the height of the final battle of Armageddon - which is still most certainly more than 7 years into the future.

These events in current middle eastern affairs regarding Syria and Lebanon will lead to the war in which Damascus is utterly destroyed - proving the correctness of Biblical prophecy.

Perhaps I should post my own reading of Isaiah 17 in this thread? It is not too disimilar from the one of the author I quote in the thread opening post, and whatever disimilarities there are are very minor when contrasted to the "big prophetic picture".

[Sean Osborne]

quote:

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Originally posted by Seeley:

Will (or could) the destruction of Damascus be the trigger for the mobilization of Russia and the war of Gog and Magog? It appears to me, that with all the current activity between Russia, Iran, and Syria that its almost inevitable.

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I do believe this is in fact the case. There is a de facto Russian-Iranian alliance. There is also a long-standing Russian military agreement between Syria and Russia -- in October 1973 it nearly led to Russian intervention in the Yom Kippur War and to direct US-Russian nuclear confrontation. Yes, I am convinced the answer is yes. Again, keep an eye on Turkey!!!

quote:

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I wonder what the exact event will be which pushes Israel to nuke Syria?

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I think the answer to this is also evident in Isaiah 17, New International Version. Italics mine for emphasis.

quote:

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Isaiah 17

An Oracle Against Damascus

1 An oracle concerning Damascus:

"See, Damascus will no longer be a city

but will become a heap of ruins.

2 The cities of Aroer will be deserted

and left to flocks, which will lie down,

with no one to make them afraid.

3 The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim,

and royal power from Damascus;

the remnant of Aram will be

like the glory of the Israelites,"

declares the LORD Almighty.

4 "In that day the glory of Jacob will fade;

the fat of his body will waste away.

5 It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain

and harvests the grain with his arm-

as when a man gleans heads of grain

in the Valley of Rephaim.

6 Yet some gleanings will remain,

as when an olive tree is beaten,

leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches,

four or five on the fruitful boughs,"

declares the LORD , the God of Israel.

7 In that day men will look to their Maker

and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel.

8 They will not look to the altars,

the work of their hands,

and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles [a]

and the incense altars their fingers have made.

9 In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation.

10 You have forgotten God your Savior;

you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.

Therefore, though you set out the finest plants

and plant imported vines,

11 though on the day you set them out, you make them grow,

and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud,

yet the harvest will be as nothing

in the day of disease and incurable pain.

12 Oh, the raging of many nations-

they rage like the raging sea!

Oh, the uproar of the peoples-

they roar like the roaring of great waters!

13 Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters,

when he rebukes them they flee far away,

driven before the wind like chaff on the hills,

like tumbleweed before a gale.

14 In the evening, sudden terror!

Before the morning, they are gone!

This is the portion of those who loot us,

the lot of those who plunder us.

Footnotes:

Isaiah 17:8 That is, symbols of the goddess Asherah

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SOURCE:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=isaiah%2017&version=31

Here is the sequence of events this chapter reveals:

There is some kind of attack on Ephraim... which is the area of modern day Tel Aviv, and the naturally occuring west-to-east wind pattern disperses this event downwind as for as Aroer which is in present day Jordan, and the people will suddenly abandon whatever activity it is they are engaged in that region when the event occurs.

Observe also the words used regarding northern Israel:

Ephraim and Rephaim... study these two words and what they mean and I think you will find key insights as to exactly what this prophecy is saying.

[Sean Osborne]

Here's yet another spiritually accurate exegesis on Isaiah 17 which is easier to read than the first one I posted as the topic starter.

quote:

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Isaiah 17, An Oracle Concerning Damascus
Ikvot ha'Mashiach

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

Syria's been in the news again, the result of a recent military spending spree. As you might expect, that's not good for world peace. In fact it prompted a visit to Damascus by US officials with the most serious warnings yet, as well as an order from the White House to the military command in Iraq to prepare for a February attack on Syrian training facilities just inside their border with Iraq.

It's also causing a strain in Russian-Israeli relations, since Russia is one of the suppliers in the deal, and a US threat of sanctions against Russia if the deal goes through.

At issue are two transactions, one completed and the other still pending, wherein Syria has purchased anti-tank missiles in Eastern Europe, and agreed to purchase an air defense system and long range missiles from Russia. Although Russia denies any sale is taking place, Syrian President Assad is due in Moscow later this month (Jan 24-28) where he hopes to finalize the deal.

These two purchases combine to significantly alter the mid-east "balance of strength." Damascus would theoretically be protected against an airborne attack from Israel while possessing missiles that can penetrate Israel's air defense and have a range capable of putting every city in Israel at risk.

According to some reports, the deal also includes shoulder fired anti-air missiles. The US is concerned that these and the anti-tank missiles will wind up in the hands of Hizbollah, the Palestinians, and other Syrian backed terrorist elements. US deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage warned Syrian Pres. Assad that the appearance of any of these missiles in Iraq would constitute grounds for immediate military action against Syria. The order to attack, he said, has already been given. No further action from the US chain of command is required. US intelligence has obtained the serial numbers of every missile, making it easy to prove their origin in case they do show up in Iraq.

In addition, Armitage also demanded that Syria hand over to Iraq or the US the 55 top officials and military officers of the former Saddam regime, who are confirmed by intelligence to be established in Syria, running the guerrilla war in Iraq out of their homes and offices. (Addresses, telephone numbers and cell phone numbers were listed beside each name).

Since Syria wouldn't dare retaliate against the US in the event of an attack, Israel assumes Assad would direct Hizbollah to mount a major attack across the Lebanese border instead, and is preparing accordingly.

Aside from the money involved, Russia's motivation is to use this sale as a warning to the US and Israel that it's dangerous to make decisions about the future of the Middle East without including Russia in the discussions. Russian President Putin is also upset over the way the US and Israel "influenced" the recent election in the Ukraine causing his candidate to be defeated.

So once again we have Russia (Magog) supplying armament to a Middle Eastern enemy of Israel, in this case Syria, opening a window for the fulfillment of prophecy. To refresh our memories, let's review Isaiah's prophecy about Damascus. It's found in chapter 17.

An oracle concerning Damascus:

"See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted and left to flocks, which will lie down, with no one to make them afraid. (Isaiah 17:1-2)

Because of the language of these verses, many scholars believe that this prophecy was only partially fulfilled when the Assyrians defeated the Arameans and overran their capital, Damascus, in 732 BC. To this day Damascus is thought to be the world's oldest continuously inhabited city with a 5000-year history and a population close to 2 million, yet Isaiah 17:1 indicates that it will one day cease to exist. The phrase "cities of Aroer" refers to Aramean territory east of the Jordan River from the area round Damascus south to the Arnon River, which flows into the Dead Sea.

The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim, and royal power from Damascus; the remnant of Aram will be like the glory of the Israelites," declares the LORD Almighty. "In that day the glory of Jacob will fade; the fat of his body will waste away. It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain and harvests the grain with his arm- as when a man gleans heads of grain in the Valley of Rephaim. (Isaiah 17:3-5)

This segment speaks of the fall of Samaria 10 years later in 722 BC, and the systematic relocation of everyone showing any leadership tendencies to the far reaches of the Assyrian Empire. This was standard Assyrian policy to reduce the likelihood of subsequent rebellion among their conquered peoples. Jacob and Ephraim are alternate names for the Northern Kingdom. Judah was the name given to the Southern Kingdom, later changed to Judea in the Greek and Roman eras.

Yet some gleanings will remain, as when an olive tree is beaten, leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches, four or five on the fruitful boughs," declares the LORD, the God of Israel. (Isaiah 17:6)

Not all the people were dispersed. A remnant remained in the land, casting further doubt on the "lost 10 tribes" hypothesis. It was this remnant that came to be known as the Samaritans in the time of Jesus. (A quick reading of 2 Chronicles 11:16 shows that all 12 tribes were represented in the Southern Kingdom of Judah at the time of the civil war that divided the nation. There are no lost tribes. The Lord has always preserved a remnant of all the Tribes of Israel.)

In that day men will look to their Maker and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel. They will not look to the altars, the work of their hands, and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles and the incense altars their fingers have made. In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation. (Isaiah 17:7-9)

This is another passage that's problematic for those who try to consign the whole prophecy to history. There is simply no reason to believe that the Assyrians turned to God following their conquest of Aram and Israel. And far from abandoning their cities because of the Israelites, it was the Israelites who were defeated and dispersed. The yet future Jewish attack on Damascus causing the destruction and abandonment of Syrian cities, and the return of these descendants of Shem to their God is a much more likely fulfillment.

History tells us that whenever Israel sees an insurmountable advantage accruing to one of its unfriendly neighbors, its response is both decisive and pre-emptive. If the Russian sale goes forward, it will give Syria a huge military advantage that Israel cannot let stand. Should diplomacy fail, a preemptive strike before Damascus is fully protected is an obvious solution to the problem. For Israel, having both the capability and the will to carry it out, out this would be a simple matter of self-preservation. Watch this issue closely; it just might be the very next item on the prophetic agenda.

You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. Therefore, though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines, though on the day you set them out, you make them grow, and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud, yet the harvest will be as nothing in the day of disease and incurable pain. (Isaiah 17:10-11)

Asshur, father of the Assyrians, and Aram, father of the Arameans were both sons of Shem. Aram's son Uz is the traditional founder of Damascus. The knowledge of God in the memories of these patriarchs cannot be questioned. It wasn't that they never knew Him, but that they had forgotten Him, abandoned Him in favor of the Canaanite gods of the region, Baal and his consort Ashtoreth (aka Asherah, Astarte, Ishtar, Aphrodite, Venus.) Currently Syria is almost totally Moslem. Until they return to their Maker and Savior none of their plans and schemes will prosper in the long run.


But return to Him they will. In Isaiah 19 we're told that in the Kingdom Age there'll be a highway extending from Egypt to Assyria, and both will stand with Israel to receive the Lord's blessing. (Isaiah 19:23-25)

Oh, the raging of many nations- they rage like the raging sea! Oh, the uproar of the peoples- they roar like the roaring of great waters! Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them they flee far away, driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale. In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us. (Isaiah 17:12-14)

Having conquered both the Arameans and the Northern Kingdom, the Assyrians set their sights on the Southern Kingdom, Judah. Assyria's King Sennacherib brought his armies almost literally to the gates of Jerusalem, so close his commanders were within speaking distance of the Jewish defenders. On the night before they were to attack, the Lord sent His angel into the Assyrian camp on Mt. Scopus to slaughter 185,000 Assyrian soldiers. Before dawn they had packed up and fled, ending 44 years of conquest. (Isaiah 37:36-38) This time in Israel's history so parallels the Jewish view of the End Times that Sennacherib is seen by them as a type of the anti-christ, while Judah's King Hezekiah models the Messiah.

But notice that Isaiah speaks of many nations raging against God's people, not just Assyria. Is this scene set to be played out again as the forces of the anti-christ take their last stand against the Lord and His Anointed One in Jerusalem? Zechariah says yes.

A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime-a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name. (Zech 14:1-9) If you listen carefully, you can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah.

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http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/isaiah-17-an-oracle-concerning-damascus

[Sean Osborne]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wallis:

So, if I am reading this correctly, the destruction of Damascus heralds the End Times.

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Wallis

Not exactly. What the destruction of Damascus (with respect to the entire prophecy of Isaiah 17) will do is demonstrate:

a) the infallibility of Bible Prophecy
b) that it is given of God
c) its occurance happens exactly as foretold over 2,700 years ago by Isaiah.

That Israel is back in "the Land" at the time of this event is a given.. therefore by inference it is related to being a "last days" event.

Given the very recent public statements of Vladimir Putin (Russia) regarding both Syria and Iran places this subject squarely in the heart of what this thread is about. It is also, in my opinion, directly related to subsequent events which are foretold in Ezekiel 38 and 39.

quote:

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But is there a real likelihood of Damascus being destroyed? Short of a really devastating WMD used, it seems to me that modern armies no longer take cities apart "stone by stone" and "salting the earth." Western victors have shown a great deal of vigor of rebuilding the defeated cities.

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Let's look at the actual text of Isaiah 17. The terminology you use in "stone by stone" and "salting of the earth" do not appear in the text of Isaiah 17, but other strong clues do appear which tell of the types of WMD and of the timing of the attack. I will place my commentary within ((bold double parenthesis)) within the following text of Isaiah 17.

quote:

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Isaiah 17
An Oracle Against Damascus
1 An oracle concerning Damascus:


"See, Damascus will no longer be a city

but will become a heap of ruins.

((the above speaks of explosive force which destroys the entire city))

2 The cities of Aroer will be deserted

and left to flocks, which will lie down,

with no one to make them afraid.

3 The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim, ((Tel Aviv))

and royal power from Damascus;

the remnant of Aram will be

like the glory of the Israelites,"

declares the LORD Almighty.



4 "In that day the glory of Jacob will fade;

the fat of his body will waste away.

5 It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain

and harvests the grain with his arm-

as when a man gleans heads of grain

in the Valley of Rephaim.

((this speaks of an area in the West Bank and Israel proper as we currently know it. Significant loss of life- both Israeli [the glory of Jacob]and Palestinian [the Rephaim].))

6 Yet some gleanings will remain,

as when an olive tree is beaten,

leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches,

four or five on the fruitful boughs,"

declares the LORD , the God of Israel.

((the olive tree is always used as a symbol for Israel.))

7 In that day men will look to their Maker

and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel.

8 They will not look to the altars,

the work of their hands,

and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles [a]

and the incense altars their fingers have made.



9 In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation.

((Nuclear warfare.))

10 You have forgotten God your Savior;

you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.

Therefore, though you set out the finest plants

and plant imported vines,

11 though on the day you set them out, you make them grow,

and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud,

yet the harvest will be as nothing

in the day of disease and incurable pain.

((a chastisement comes upon Israel in the form of biological or chemical warfare [disease and incurable pain], but as stated above Israel survives where "gleanings remain" because not all of them have not forgotten God their Savior.))

12 Oh, the raging of many nations-

they rage like the raging sea!

Oh, the uproar of the peoples-

they roar like the roaring of great waters!

13 Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters,

when he rebukes them they flee far away,

driven before the wind like chaff on the hills,

like tumbleweed before a gale.

14 In the evening, sudden terror!

Before the morning, they are gone!

This is the portion of those who loot us,

the lot of those who plunder us.

((the initial attack on Israel occurs in the evening, the bio-chem agents blown by prevailing winds from Tel Aviv inland all the way into Jordan [Aroer]. Before the morning Israel has retaliated and damascus is no more.))

Footnotes:

Isaiah 17:8 That is, symbols of the goddess Asherah

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Again... the Oracle against damascus I believe is a precursor event to the War of Gog Magog detailed in Ezekiel 38 - 39.

It is the result of the War of Gog Magog which ends the threat of Arab/Iranian conquest of modern Israel, and facilitates the construction of the third Temple in Jerusalem. The constuction of the third Temple is the topic of Ezekiel 40.

[Sean Osborne]

One thing is for sure... when Damascus is destroyed in the near future all arguments about the the correct interpretation of Isaiah 17 will be a moot point. The Holy Spirit of God is the author of true, 100% accurate and infallable prophecy and THE only source of their correct interpretation -- all others are rubbish.

quote:

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A Cup of Trembling
Ikvot ha'Mashiach

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. The Lord, Who stretches out the Heavens Who lays the foundations of the Earth, and Who forms the spirit of man within him declares, "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves" (Zech 12:1-3).

True, the ultimate fulfillment of this passage will come at the very end of the age, but a careful reading shows the progressive nature of the prophecy. First the surrounding nations will be sent reeling, and finally all the nations of the earth will be involved, and those who move against Jerusalem will wind up injuring themselves. And please don't miss the way the Author identifies Himself: the One Who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth and forms man's spirit with in him. Not much doubt as to Who's speaking, so we better pay attention.


When Will These Things Happen?

It's safe to say that all the nations of the earth are already somewhat troubled over Jerusalem. They realize the ease with which the whole world could be drawn into a conflict in the Middle East. And almost all are already aligned to some extent against Jerusalem. The notable exception is the US, but according to the prophecy even we will one day abandon Israel. But first, let's remember that the prophecy initially involves only the surrounding peoples and indicates that Judah (Judea and Samaria ... the West Bank) and Jerusalem will be besieged. The degree to which this part of the prophecy is already fulfilled is frightening. Much of the area has become little more than an armed camp surrounded by opposing troops.

UPI reported last Friday that the recent build-up of Israeli troops along the lines that separate Palestinian controlled areas from Israel proper has led US intelligence sources to conclude that Israel is preparing to launch a full scale attack against the forces of the Palestinian Authority. They're specifically targeting known terrorists and their headquarters in an all out effort to put an end to the terrorist activity once and for all. According to one source it's not a question of if, but when this attack will come, and could happen "within days." All the neighboring nations except Jordan have pledged to support the PA and Syria appears to be their staging area for troops and arms. Should this attack take place and should the surrounding nations intervene, most observers believe they will be sent reeling. Israel is simply too strong, and the seemingly endless string of terrorist incidents has created among Israelis a tremendous level of pent up demand for reprisal. A full-scale attack would release this energy, unite the people behind their government, and provide an incredible morale boost for the Israeli Defense Forces.


An Oracle Against Damascus

Within this context, let's look at what could be a related prophecy from Isaiah 17. This prophecy was partially fulfilled in 732 BC when the Assyrians conquered Damascus (Aram). But never did Damascus cease to be inhabited. In fact to this day Damascus is described as the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world, over 5000 years and counting. The cities of Aroer, mentioned in vs. 2 are in present day Jordan about 14 miles east of the Dead Sea in the Arnon Gorge area and defined the southern most borders of the Aramean kingdom. The fortified city in vs. 3 was Samaria, capital of the Northern Kingdom of Israel and destroyed by the Assyrians in 722 BC. The Northern Kingdom consisted of the 10 tribes of Israel who rebelled in the religious upheaval that followed King Solomon's death and was allied with Damascus against Assyria. Like Damascus it was defeated and its people carried off into captivity. (Babylon conquered the rest of Israel in 586 BC.) Since Damascus was never destroyed and never ceased being inhabited, what we may have in Isaiah 17 is a partial fulfillment in history that points to a total fulfillment yet future to us.


Validating Prophecy

This is not unusual in Biblical prophecy where the complete fulfillment of a passage may unfold over thousands of years. You receive an example of this in the mail every Christmas. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given. And the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace" (Isa 9:6). The passage goes on to explain that He will sit on David's throne and reign in peace forever. Only the first phrase of this passage has come to pass. The Child was born, the Son was given. The rest of the passage awaits His 2nd coming, but the fact that He was born confirms that the rest will take place as well. Partial fulfillment is the Lord's way of validating End Times Prophecy thousands of years in advance.

The Oracle against Damascus is a lot like the one against Babylon in Isaiah 13-14, where Babylon is also described as being so totally destroyed that it would never be inhabited again. For many years scholars believed that this prophecy was fulfilled when the Medes and Persians conquered Babylon about 535 BC. It took the Gulf War to show us that Saddam Hussein has spent billions re-building Babylon, and to realize that Babylon was never destroyed in the manner the Bible describes. It has in fact been occupied almost continuously since its construction in the days of the Neo-Babylonian Empire 2700 years ago. The City of Babylon will play a major role in world events at the end of the age before its final and total destruction.

Admittedly the Oracle against Damascus in Isaiah 17 is somewhat more obscure. Scholars who place fulfillment of this passage in our time rely on four things:

1. The phrase in vs. 1 "Damascus will no longer be a city"

2. The multiple use of the phrase "in that day" through out the passage (vs. 4, 7, 9) which often hints of end times

3. Men will "Look to their Maker and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel,"

4. The mention of many nations in vs.12-14 would seem to include more than just Assyria.

Regarding point 3 there was a temporary revival in the southern kingdom under King Hezekiah that spared Jerusalem from the Assyrians, but nowhere is a revival in the northern kingdom or among the Arameans (Damascus was the capital of Aram) or Assyrians mentioned. And yet in Isaiah 19:23-25 Assyria is mentioned with Egypt and Israel as being called "My people, My handiwork, and My inheritance" by God in the millennium.


Soon And Very Soon

If those who place the fulfillment of Isaiah 17 in our time are correct, then we could see it very soon. Israel holds Syria responsible for all attacks from Lebanon in the north and has recently retaliated against them several times, and we've already mentioned the build up of arms and troops in Syria supplied primarily by Russia, Iran, and Iraq. These countries have all pledged support for the Palestinians and may react if Israel invades PA areas. If they do react, or if it even seems likely that they will, Israel could launch a pre-emptive strike against Damascus to discourage any interference from them. An act of this kind would indeed send the "surrounding peoples reeling."

In the progressive fulfillment of the prophecies in Zechariah 12 and Isaiah 17, the Lord will begin the refining process of Israel. "The glory of Jacob will fade, the fat of his body waste away" (Isa 17:4) until by the end of the Great Tribulation only a believing remnant is left. As is confirmed in Ezekiel 39:28-29 they will "look to their Maker and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel" and "I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel" declares the sovereign Lord. Then will the rest of Isaiah 9:6-7 be fulfilled as He returns to "reign on David's throne and over his Kingdom establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever."

You can almost hear the Footsteps of the Messiah.

---

[Sean Osborne]

Isaiah is not the only Biblical prophet to write concerning Damascus. It is a very, very self-explanatory prophecy.

Here's Jeremiah 49:23-27

quote:

---

A Message About Damascus
23 Concerning Damascus:


"Hamath and Arpad are dismayed,

for they have heard bad news.

They are disheartened,

troubled like [c] the restless sea.

24 Damascus has become feeble,

she has turned to flee

and panic has gripped her;

anguish and pain have seized her,

pain like that of a woman in labor.

25 Why has the city of renown not been abandoned,

the town in which I delight?

26 Surely, her young men will fall in the streets;

all her soldiers will be silenced in that day,"

declares the LORD Almighty.

27 "I will set fire to the walls of Damascus;

it will consume the fortresses of Ben-Hadad."

---

"All her soldiers silenced in that day" and "I will set fire to the walls of Damascus" are as clear as a bell as to the fate which awaits them.


More on the nuclear fate which awaits Damascus...

quote:

---

Jeremiah 49:23-27

A Message About Damascus
23 Concerning Damascus:



"Hamath and Arpad are dismayed,

for they have heard bad news.

They are disheartened,

troubled like the restless sea.

24 Damascus has become feeble,

she has turned to flee

and panic has gripped her;

anguish and pain have seized her,

pain like that of a woman in labor.

25 Why has the city of renown not been abandoned,

the town in which I delight?

26 Surely, her young men will fall in the streets;

all her soldiers will be silenced in that day,"

declares the LORD Almighty.

27 "I will set FIRE to the walls of Damascus;

it will CONSUME the fortresses of Ben-Hadad."

---

(**NOTE** "fortresses of Ben-Hadad" specifically means Damascus, Syria which is consumed by fire. It does not take much thought to understand what kind of fire we have today which consumes an entire city.)

And this in turn also is found in Amos 1:3-5

quote:

---

Judgment on Israel's Neighbors
3 This is what the LORD says:



"For three sins of Damascus,

even for four, I will not turn back my wrath .

Because she threshed Gilead

with sledges having iron teeth,

4 I will send fire upon the house of Hazael

that will consume the fortresses of Ben-Hadad.

5 I will break down the gate of Damascus;

I will destroy the king who is in the Valley of Aven

and the one who holds the scepter in Beth Eden.

The people of Aram will go into exile to Kir,"

says the LORD .

---

I would appear that Isaiah, Jeremiah and Amos have all prophecied the same fate for Damascus, Syria. If I were Bashar Hafez al-Assad I'd be seriously re-thinking what I do next regarding Israel.

[Sean Osborne]

I want to add some archaelogical evidence to this discussion. This is in no way a "challenge" or a "rebuttal" to the prophetic interpretation.

Regarding Babylon, one might state that the prophecy has been fulfilled.

"The capital of the Old Kingdom of Babylonia situated on the Euphrates River south of Baghdad in modern Iraq. Thc city was occupied from the 3rd millennium BC but became important early in the 2nd millennium under the kings of the First Dynasty of Babylon. The sixth king of this dynasty was Hammurabi (1792-1750 BC) who made Babylon the capital of a vast empire and is best remembered for his code of laws. This period was brought to an end by the Hittites when in 1595 BC Babylon is sacked by King Mursili I. The city then had a mixed history until the Neo-Babylonian Period of the 7th-6th centuries BC. It once again achieved pre-eminence when Nebuchadnezzar II (605-562 BC) extended the Chaldean Empire over most of Western Asia. Babylon fell to Cyrus the Great of Persia in 539 BC; occcupation continued in the Achaemenid Period. The city was taken by Alexander the Great in 331 BC. Babylon subsequently declined and was eventually abandoned after the Muslim conquest of AD 641."

Old Babylon

The modern city of Babylon is not exactly situated on the ancient city of Babylon, which now is in ruins.

Then, regarding Damascus, there is interesting historical and archaeological data that indicate Damascus under the Armaeans was not only taken but destroyed, if only partially. The people were wholesale deported and replaced by Assyrians.

"But now another ethnic group, by geopolitical posture also opposed to Assyria, had adopted the former Hittite goal, and was moving eastward into Mesopotamia, and this was the Arameans. Here was a force to be reckoned with, young and vibrant, and with all the vigor associated with a tribal state. Twenty eight times, so Tiglath-Pileser tells us, he was obliged to lead punitive campaigns against the encroaching Aramaeans, until finally he burst into Syria. The startled Phoenician cities of Sidon, Byblos, and Arvad followed time honored practice and "bought off" the newcomer with presents and facilitated his cutting of timber in the (Lebanon) Mountains. But Tiglath-Pileser's exploit proved ephemeral. His successors for over 150 years were wholly incapable of resisting Aramaean pressure; and by the third quarter of the tenth century BC, just as Sheshonq I was seating himself on the throne of Egypt, the invader's had reached the Tigris.
The same pattern of indecisive confrontation between the Tigris based power of Assyria and the Mediterranean coastlands was to prolong itself for over one hundred years after the battle of Qarqar until a civil war in Assyria unseated the royal family and catapulted a general named (Biblical "Pul") known to history as Tiglath-Pileser III to the throne of the empire. This usurper proved to be an organizational genius and a master strategist. By relentless campaigning and indiscriminate use of mass deportation, he encompassed the destruction of Damascus and Israel and by 732 BC even threatened Egypt.
Again Tiglath-pileser responded with a speed a determination that bewildered his enemies. Adopting a strategy of attacking the weaker, coastal allies and of driving a wedge between Israel and Damascus, he descended upon Phoenicia in the spring of 734 BC, capturing Sumur, Arka, and Byblos, and forcing Tyre to pay tribute and suffer partial deportation. Acco was assaulted and reduced to ashes, the territory of Naphtali annexed, and the Assyrians were able to march all the way through Philistia.
Two years later Damascus fell, its population was deported and the territory annexed as a province. This period also witnessed the annexation of Israel's territory in Galilee and TransJordan, and the reduction of the state to little more than the environs of Samaria."

Aramaean Damascus

There are several sites that say basically the same information as below:

"The Assyrian army reached the Syrian-Phoenician coast and Damascus in 732-841 B.C. After many repeated incursions.It is most probable that the remains of the Aramaean city lie buried under the western part of the present day walled city. Excavation of the area is impossible because of the architectural value of the buildings now situated on top of the Aramaean site so information about the layout of the city is sparse."

Evidence of Aramaean Damascus

So, while there yet may be a future destruction of Damascus prophesied, the prophets certainly had plenty of historical examples to make their claim. Plus which, Damascus throughout history has been an important trading center as well as a strategic linchpin in the Middle East. Witness the Israelite-Damascus coalition against their common enemies.

[Sean Osborne]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wallis:
You left a door open, Invictus. What are you referring to when you stated "keep an eye on Turkey?

---

Not an open door per se, but an invitation to knowning what will happen in this world before it actually does.

The events in Syria and Lebanon are going to unfold as they will.

They will lead to subsequent events. There is Bible prophecy about them.

The war of Gog/Magog is one such event. It speaks of Russia, Iran and Arab/African nations coming against Israel in a massive invasion.
Among them are areas which can be none other than regions of what is modern day Turkey.

Turkey is currently an ally of the West, of NATO. It has had a strong military alliance with Israel.

This is going to change, drastically and radically, as that predominently muslim nation will join with Russia and her allies in the invasion of Israel - and along with them be utterly decimated in defeat.

That is why I am saying keep an eye on Turkey - there are tremendous changes coming ... and the source of this knowledge about that change is millenia old prophecy found in Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Again, Bible prophecy is excruiatingly precise and exact. Now you will see it happen with your own eyes as the events unfold.

[Sean Osborne]

The above series of posts brings us to the present moment in time.

[Brian Baldwin]

This is going to change, drastically and radically, as that predominently muslim nation will join with Russia and her allies in the invasion of Israel - and along with them be utterly decimated in defeat.

We already have begun to see this switch. Turkey while still considered an Ally has already taken steps in the direction of Russian alliance. They have made friendships with that nation that leave one scratching their head and have severed some relations with the west. Right now they're playing both sides to see if its safe to let go of the West and come down in the camp of the Trans-Asian Axis securely.

My bet is it'll be a bad move for them either way. When you're in the middle like that its a lose lose scenario. Were they to stay with the west they'd be crushed via being in the path of the Axis, while going to the Axis will result in a crushing defeat from the west.

I wonder if the west will need another Baldwin from that direct lineage to run Constantinople again? lol

Brian

[Sean Osborne]

So where are we today in current events, in relation to that which is posted above?

Here is a recap of the headlines of this past week which have been the driving force behind a prophetic tsunami through the Evangelical Christian community.

Putin Calls Russia Islamic World's Most Reliable Ally

A possible Israel-Iran war

IDF Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon: Saddam's WMD Moved to Syria

HAMAS vows to defend Iran


Goss warns Ankara to be ready for a possible U.S. aerial operation against Iran and Syria

These recent headlines, among others I have seen in recent months, have me convinced that we are nearer to the literal fulfillment of ancient Bible prophecy than ever before. The reader is advised that in addition to the text thus presented there are literaly hundreds, perhaps thousands more lines of prophetic text in the OT and the NT on the coming conflagration.

Isaiah 17:1-2
¹ An oracle concerning Damascus:
"See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.
² The cities of Aroer will be deserted
and left to flocks, which will lie down,
with no one to make them afraid.

Ezekiel 38: 1-8

And the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying,

² Son of man, set thy face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh ( Russia ), Meshech ( Moscow ), and Tubal ( Tobolsk ), and prophesy against him,
³ and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:
⁴ and I will turn thee about, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords;
⁵ Persia ( Iran ), Cush ( Ethiopia/Somalia ), and Put ( Libya ) with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
⁶ Gomer ( Cimmerians of the Eurasian steppe ), and all his hordes; the house of Togarmah ( Turkey ) in the uttermost parts of the north, and all his hordes; even many peoples with thee.
⁷ Be thou prepared, yea, prepare thyself, thou, and all thy companies that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. ⁸ After many days thou shalt be visited:in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, that is gathered out of many peoples, upon the mountains of Israel, which have been a continual waste; but it is brought forth out of the peoples, and they shall dwell securely, all of them.
************************************************** ************


"Al Qaeda will now, as coherently as possible, attempt to focus their evil efforts on Israel. This means their long-term alliance with the Islamic government of Iran will be more obvious to the general public; their proxy terrorists in Lebanon (Hezbollah) and other radicals groups like HAMAS, etc., will concentrate on overt war with Israel.

Yes, watch the events in the Middle East very carefully. Especially watch Jerusalem as it becomes a very distinct focal point."

**********************************************

Turkey:

With the very real prospect of an American or Israeli strike on Syria and Iran all eyes must focus on the nation of Turkey.

Might one of repercussions of such strikes on Syria and Iran be the cause of an Islamic revolution in Turkey, with the secular government and NATO ally becoming an unintended victim?

We would do well to remember the example of Iran in 1978-79.

The immediate assessment of such a revolution would be to forecast the geoplotical realignment of an Islamic Turkey with the emerging Russian-Iranian alliance, fulfilling the role Ezekiel foretold Turkey would play in the coming assault on Israel.

The above are partial notes of something NEIN will be issuing shortly under the title I have suggested to be...

"Wars and Rumors of War: is Ezekiels War Next?"

[Brian Baldwin]

Its thought by some scientists that the land of Cush from Genesis could be Armenia or Azerbaijan also maybe both together and some parts of the land surrounding them. Kush of Eqyptian times is indeed Ethiopia but they could be considered very different lands....

With that in mind Sean... How does one come to finding the Cush of Ezekiel to be Ethiopia? Is there more on that which would point there rather than east of northern Iran?

Brian

[Sean Osborne]

Laz,

I think we need to look as Ezekiel in terms of Ezekiel and the rest of the Bible as the point of reference; that we look at the places he named in the context of what his frame of reference was with respect to the nations identified as coming aginst Israel.

So with respect to the identification, as I have done, of Cush as Ethiopia/Somalia (here we run into the same kind of issue as we have with the identification of Gomer who are an assorted peoples in the Eurasian steppe), Cush might more properly be represented by saying those peoples dwelling south of Egypt in the horn of Africa.

Remembering always that the Bible interprets the Bible, there is nothing in Bible prophecy which can not be fully understood by knowing the rest of the Bible - (excepting only one specific passage in Revelation where those words are not revealed) - Cush was a grandson of Noah as we see in Genesis 10, whose descendents migrated southward into Africa. In fact all of the nations identified in Ezekiel 38 and 39 as taking part in the confederation of the attempted invasion of Israel can be idnetifed by using the template provide in Genesis 10. Knowing where these tribes settled is the keys to the current identification. Notice also that Put (Libya) is also a northern African people separate and distinct from the Egyptians (a/k/a Mizraim) or the Cushites of southern Africa.

[Sean Osborne]

America in Bible Prophecy

Prophecy - Signs
Saturday, December 17, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor

The Bush administration has started firing back at its critics, both at home and abroad, but it is the international criticism that is doing America the most damage.



When a Democrat says something outrageous like America can't win the war or our forces routinely torture prisoners or that the terrorists are winning, the domestic audience reacts with a yawn and chalks it up to 'political partisanship'.

And to 21st century America, THAT means it is either true or not true, depending on what you want to be true. But in any case, Americans have a grasp of the context of the debate.

When Congressman Jack Murtha calls for an immediate surrender, domestic audiences hear a partisan politician trying to make political points with his constituents or with his party.

The international community hears that America is on the ropes and tries to leverage that to their best national advantage.

The enemy hears a confirmation of his own leadership's assurances that America doesn't have the will to fight on for long. Instead of despairing of dying in a lost cause, he is re-energized to fight on by visions of ultimate victory.
Our own forces, on the other hand, become the ones that are despairing of dying for a lost cause. But to a partisan Democrat, that is an acceptable price to pay for bringing down the Bush administration.

And anyone who dares to suggest that encouraging the enemy and discouraging our own combat forces, holding America up to international ridicule, and providing the international community with political leverage to use against America's national interests is disloyal can expect to be immediately marginalized as a 'Bush' partisan.
It is as if Bush is the head of the Republican Party instead of President of the United States.


This phenomenon may well explain America's absence from the Bible's record during the Tribulation Period.

For years, well-meaning Christians have tried to find some reference to America in Bible prophecy. The most convincing argument I've heard to date is Ezekiel's reference to the 'merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof' (Ezekiel 38:13)

'Tarshish' is either a Sanskrit or Aryan word meaning 'sea coast'. The identity 'merchants of Tarshish' is a subject of wide debate, with some scholars putting it on the European coastline to the extreme west, with others putting Tarshish on the coast of India to the east.

But to find America in Tarshish, one needs to locate it on Europe's west coast, preferably in Great Britain. The 'lion' then represents Britain, and 'all the young lions thereof' can include America, a former British colony.

As you can probably tell, I am skeptical of this interpretation, although it has many champions, including Tommy Ice, for whom I have the utmost respect and admiration.

During the Tribulation, we find references to Russia and the modern Middle East in Ezekiel's Gog Magog vision. We find references to a massive Oriental power, called the Kings of the East, capable of fielding an army of two hundred million men. (The approximate strength of the modern Chinese army, according to the CIA World Factbook)
There are references to a pan-African alliance resembling the Organization of African States, and a huge segment of prophecy is devoted exclusively to the revival of the Roman Empire and the role it plays in advancing the antichrist's agenda.

But there is NO reference to anything resembling a fifth political power, especially not one as powerful alone as are the other four powers combined.
That is not to say there is no mention of America in the Bible for the last days-- just not during the Tribulation. I believe America represents the Church in the last days, just as the nation of Israel represents Judaism.

If Israel has an indelible identity in the eyes of the world, it is as 'the Jewish State'. If America's identity can be encapsulated in the world's eyes, it is as the world's most Christian nation, which is why Islam declared war on America in the first place.
To al-Qaeda, the war is against Christians and Jews, and therefore, by definition, it is primarily against America and Israel.

The Apostle Paul's ministry was to the Gentile Church. Although himself a former Pharisee, he was chosen as the 'Apostle to the Gentiles'. Paul says little about the Tribulation, but he wrote extensively about the events of the final hours of the Church Age leading up to it.
His description of the moral state of the Church in the last days is a letter-perfect description of American society in the 21st century.

Paul begins by setting the timeframe: "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come." For America, times have NEVER been more perilous.
Not even during the darkest days of World War Two was the American homeland under direct threat. America had more friends and international prestige while engaged in a war with half the world than it did as it entered the 21st century.

America's social fabric is coming apart at the seams before our very eyes: "men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy . ."
That pretty much covers the top stories in this morning's newspapers.
"Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. . ."

Parents killing kids, teachers raping students, American politicians telling the world America can't be trusted, Christ's banishment from 'Christ'mas, the politics of personal destruction replacing the politics of ideas, etc. Paul's outline couldn't be MORE descriptive of 21st century America. Could it?

The American Civil Liberties Union has made a century-long career out of defending civil rights by opposing national recognition of God as the Guarantor of our civil rights. They defend America's God-given civil liberties by mythologizing the God that gives them.
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, from such turn away." (2nd Timothy 3:1-5)
Why America is so clearly envisioned by Paul in the final hours of the Church Age, but so completely absent from the Tribulation record is a subject of considerable debate.
Bible critics argue that America isn't in the record because America didn't exist when the Bible was written. In this view, America's absence is evidence the Bible is really a book written by men and not inspired by an all-knowing God.

2nd Timothy 3:1-5 mirrors 21st century America so precisely that it demolishes this argument without further comment.
The war on terror could account for America's absence from the record during the Tribulation Period. A nuclear missile launched from a terrorist freighter offshore and detonated 180 miles above America would generate an EMP pulse that would plunge much of America, technologically speaking, back to the 19th century.
So could a massive biological or chemical attack against America's major cities. Why would anybody assume that if a terrorist strike blinded and crippled America, America's pantheon of enemies wouldn't take advantage of the situation and finish the job?

Finally, there is a third alternative explanation, advanced by the same Apostle Paul, the Rapture of the Church. As noted previously, and despite constant propaganda to the contrary, America IS the world's most Christian nation.
What would happen to America if suddenly, millions of Americans, (including much of the administration, a good chunk of the Pentagon's military leadership and most of the US military) suddenly vanished without a trace?
America does appear in Bible prophecy. Just not during the Tribulation. Read 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18 again carefully.
"For this we say unto you BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

[Sean Osborne]

Here's another good 'un from Jack Kinsella.

America in Bible Prophecy

Prophecy - Signs
Saturday, December 17, 2005
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor

The Bush administration has started firing back at its critics, both at home and abroad, but it is the international criticism that is doing America the most damage.

When a Democrat says something outrageous like America can't win the war or our forces routinely torture prisoners or that the terrorists are winning, the domestic audience reacts with a yawn and chalks it up to 'political partisanship'.
And to 21st century America, THAT means it is either true or not true, depending on what you want to be true. But in any case, Americans have a grasp of the context of the debate.
When Congressman Jack Murtha calls for an immediate surrender, domestic audiences hear a partisan politician trying to make political points with his constituents or with his party.
The international community hears that America is on the ropes and tries to leverage that to their best national advantage.
The enemy hears a confirmation of his own leadership's assurances that America doesn't have the will to fight on for long. Instead of despairing of dying in a lost cause, he is re-energized to fight on by visions of ultimate victory.
Our own forces, on the other hand, become the ones that are despairing of dying for a lost cause. But to a partisan Democrat, that is an acceptable price to pay for bringing down the Bush administration.
And anyone who dares to suggest that encouraging the enemy and discouraging our own combat forces, holding America up to international ridicule, and providing the international community with political leverage to use against America's national interests is disloyal can expect to be immediately marginalized as a 'Bush' partisan.
It is as if Bush is the head of the Republican Party instead of President of the United States.
This phenomenon may well explain America's absence from the Bible's record during the Tribulation Period.
For years, well-meaning Christians have tried to find some reference to America in Bible prophecy. The most convincing argument I've heard to date is Ezekiel's reference to the 'merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof' (Ezekiel 38:13)
'Tarshish' is either a Sanskrit or Aryan word meaning 'sea coast'. The identity 'merchants of Tarshish' is a subject of wide debate, with some scholars putting it on the European coastline to the extreme west, with others putting Tarshish on the coast of India to the east.
But to find America in Tarshish, one needs to locate it on Europe's west coast, preferably in Great Britain. The 'lion' then represents Britain, and 'all the young lions thereof' can include America, a former British colony.
As you can probably tell, I am skeptical of this interpretation, although it has many champions, including Tommy Ice, for whom I have the utmost respect and admiration.
During the Tribulation, we find references to Russia and the modern Middle East in Ezekiel's Gog Magog vision. We find references to a massive Oriental power, called the Kings of the East, capable of fielding an army of two hundred million men.
(The approximate strength of the modern Chinese army, according to the CIA World Factbook)
There are references to a pan-African alliance resembling the Organization of African States, and a huge segment of prophecy is devoted exclusively to the revival of the Roman Empire and the role it plays in advancing the antichrist's agenda.
But there is NO reference to anything resembling a fifth political power, especially not one as powerful alone as are the other four powers combined.
That is not to say there is no mention of America in the Bible for the last days-- just not during the Tribulation. I believe America represents the Church in the last days, just as the nation of Israel represents Judaism.
If Israel has an indelible identity in the eyes of the world, it is as 'the Jewish State'. If America's identity can be encapsulated in the world's eyes, it is as the world's most Christian nation, which is why Islam declared war on America in the first place.
To al-Qaeda, the war is against Christians and Jews, and therefore, by definition, it is primarily against America and Israel.
The Apostle Paul's ministry was to the Gentile Church. Although himself a former Pharisee, he was chosen as the 'Apostle to the Gentiles'. Paul says little about the Tribulation, but he wrote extensively about the events of the final hours of the Church Age leading up to it.
His description of the moral state of the Church in the last days is a letter-perfect description of American society in the 21st century.
Paul begins by setting the timeframe: "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come." For America, times have NEVER been more perilous.
Not even during the darkest days of World War Two was the American homeland under direct threat. America had more friends and international prestige while engaged in a war with half the world than it did as it entered the 21st century.
America's social fabric is coming apart at the seams before our very eyes: "men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy . ."
That pretty much covers the top stories in this morning's newspapers.
"Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. . ."
Parents killing kids, teachers raping students, American politicians telling the world America can't be trusted, Christ's banishment from 'Christ'mas, the politics of personal destruction replacing the politics of ideas, etc. Paul's outline couldn't be MORE descriptive of 21st century America. Could it?
The American Civil Liberties Union has made a century-long career out of defending civil rights by opposing national recognition of God as the Guarantor of our civil rights. They defend America's God-given civil liberties by mythologizing the God that gives them.
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, from such turn away." (2nd Timothy 3:1-5)
Why America is so clearly envisioned by Paul in the final hours of the Church Age, but so completely absent from the Tribulation record is a subject of considerable debate.
Bible critics argue that America isn't in the record because America didn't exist when the Bible was written. In this view, America's absence is evidence the Bible is really a book written by men and not inspired by an all-knowing God.
2nd Timothy 3:1-5 mirrors 21st century America so precisely that it demolishes this argument without further comment.
The war on terror could account for America's absence from the record during the Tribulation Period. A nuclear missile launched from a terrorist freighter offshore and detonated 180 miles above America would generate an EMP pulse that would plunge much of America, technologically speaking, back to the 19th century.
So could a massive biological or chemical attack against America's major cities. Why would anybody assume that if a terrorist strike blinded and crippled America, America's pantheon of enemies wouldn't take advantage of the situation and finish the job?
Finally, there is a third alternative explanation, advanced by the same Apostle Paul, the Rapture of the Church. As noted previously, and despite constant propaganda to the contrary, America IS the world's most Christian nation.
What would happen to America if suddenly, millions of Americans, (including much of the administration, a good chunk of the Pentagon's military leadership and most of the US military) suddenly vanished without a trace?
America does appear in Bible prophecy. Just not during the Tribulation. Read 1st Thessalonians 4:15-18 again carefully.
"For this we say unto you BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

[Sean Osborne]

Folks, I could have wrote the following report. In fact, I have been saying the exact same thing for many, many months now, perhaps years. Yet this is not my work, thisis the current article on Hal Lindsey's Oracle.com website.

2005 Iran Became Most Dangerous Nation

First, Iran’s continuing pursuit of nuclear weapons despite the warnings of the international community is one factor that has elevated it to the title of “most dangerous.” Iran already has Shahab 5 Missiles that are capable of delivering nuclear warheads to Israel and many places in Europe. Not to mention US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
According to a Claremont Institute report, it has a range of 2,500 miles. The missile is believed to be based on the North Korean Taep’o-dong 2. It is an Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM) that can carry a large single nuclear or biological warhead.
Most alarming to the US military is that this missile is a stepping-stone to the development of ICBMs capable of hitting the US mainland.
A Middle East Newsline dated May 20, 2004 reported, “U.S. intelligence officials believe that Iran could begin testing components of an intercontinental ballistic missile in 2005, likely from the Shahab missile family.”
This is probably why President George Bush recently announced that “it is completely unacceptable for Iran to develop nuclear weapons.” It also explains the December 31st Jerusalem Post report that the US began coordinating with NATO its plans for a possible military strike against Iran. The report spoke of an air attack on Iranian nuclear facilities.
Second, Iran elected a new president who is fanatically driven by the most extreme teachings of the Shiite Muslim faith that was introduced by the Ayatollah Khomeini. His name is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He is an avid Anti-Semite who publicly declared that “the Nazis Holocaust is a myth created by the Jews to get international sympathy for establishing the State of Israel.”
Ahmadinejad announced, “Israel is a cancer that must be wiped off the map.” With the prospect of soon acquiring nuclear-tipped missiles, this elevated him to be a major world threat. You may think that he wouldn’t be insane enough to use nuclear weapons. Don’t count on it.
Some of the Iranian Mullahs recently declared that Muslims would survive and win a nuclear exchange. One of the basic tenets of the Shiite faith is the glorification of martyrdom for Allah. In their thinking, it would be acceptable for several million Iranians to be ‘martyred’ in exchange for ‘cleansing Muslim lands of Jews and infidels.’ Two nuclear warheads hitting Israel would do in a blinding flash what took Hitler six years to accomplish – the elimination of six million Jews. To the Shiite extremist, the consequences that follow would be an acceptable sacrifice. They have actually discussed these things.
If you doubt their intention, just consider the banners draped on the Shahab missiles that are paraded periodically through the streets of Tehran. The crowds shout approval as the banners go by. They read, “We will wipe Israel off the map.” This indicates that the general population agrees with the purpose of the missiles.
Third, President Ahmadinejad is a devout believer in the apocalyptic Muslim prophecies about the soon coming of the ‘Mahdi’ (Muslim Messiah) known as the Twelfth Imam. They believe his coming will be accompanied with a world apocalypse in which Muslim rule and justice will be established on earth.
One of the first acts Ahmadinejad did as President was to donate $17 million of state money for the beautification of the Jamkaran Mosque that is about 80 miles south of Tehran. Devout Shiites believe that the ‘Twelfth Imam’ will first appear at this mosque.
President Ahmadinejad declared last month that “the main mission of the Islamic Revolution is to pave the way for the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam.”
Iranian journalist Hossein Bastani reported “Ahmadinejad saying in official meetings that the ‘hidden Imam’ will reappear in two years.”
Columnist Charles Krauthammer best summarized the significance of all this in his report entitled, In Iran, Arming for Armageddon. He surmised, “So a Holocaust-denying, virulently anti-Semitic, aspiring genocidist, on the verge of acquiring weapons of the apocalypse, believes that the end is not only near but nearer than the next American presidential election … This kind of man would have, to put it gently, less inhibition about starting Armageddon than a normal person. Indeed, with millennial bliss pending, he would have positive incentive to, as they say in Jewish eschatology, hasten the end.”
I am thankful to know from Bible prophecy that this restored State of Israel cannot be destroyed, though it will go through some terrible trials. So it is going to be fascinating to see what God does to stop this clear and immanent threat to Israel’s existence.
The Israeli Air Force has acquired some very specially designed versions of the F-16 fighter known as the F-16i. It has conformal fuel tanks mounted on the sides of the fuselage that extends its range well within Iran’s borders. It also has a large dorsal fin extending from the cockpit to the rudder that houses the most advanced defensive and targeting electronics on any aircraft. It has a more powerful engine and carries a crew of pilot and electronics operator. Israel did not help design and build this plane for normal operation. It is clearly the “Iranian special.” It is believed that Israel has already developed and practiced an attack plan to take out Iran’s scattered nuclear facilities.
And what will be the aftermath of an Israeli attack that kills thousands of Iranians, but also many Russian scientists who live at these nuclear facilities? Well let’s just say we are really getting close to Christ’s return for the Church.

http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/arti...rticleID=12285

[Brian Baldwin]

I'd be interested in a play by play from your own opinion and findings. What do you think will come to take place in all this? Who moves first? What should we be looking for? Who are the most likely players individually? Will the Temple be built first or do other things have to come about? Things of that nature. I'm super curious to your interpretation of these events.

Brian

[Sean Osborne]

What do you think will come to take place in all this? Who moves first? What should we be looking for? Who are the most likely players individually? Will the Temple be built first or do other things have to come about? Things of that nature. I'm super curious to your interpretation of these events.

Brian

Brian,

A war involing the US/Israel with Iran/Syria with Russia as well is one of the things I see as an immediate precursor. Meybe I should even categorize it as an inevitability.

I think we are about to strike Iran and Syria... very soon, in fact. F-16 Fighter Wings are enroute to the AO as we speak.

The following is Colonel Ray Coughenour's assessment of the repercussions he expects following a US or Israeli attack on Iran. I just recieved this assessment via Email from "Colonel Ray". I will probably make an appearance in the near future on his radio program which is based in California. Colonel Ray is a bronze star combat vet from Iraqi Freedom.

****


In the first hour, The US and maybe Israel would attack 150+ targets in Iran with aircraft and cruise missles. We would take out significant air defense capability, command and control HQs, Iranian Aircraft on the ground, and Naval forces in the Strait of Hormuz.

Unfortunately Iran is a much larger and much better equiped country than Iraq was. They have not been under an embargo for a dozen years like Iraq was, and their military systems are for the most part operable, unlike the Iraqis. Their counter-offensive would or could include all of he following:

- Iran has hundreds of missles capable of reaching the entire middle east, and actually the edges of Western Europe if they chose to do so. These missle systems are from North Korea / Russian / Chinease versions. The Iranians could send out a large missle attack that could reach Isreal, CENTCOM Hqs in Quatar, The Green Zone in Baghdad, Kuwait City, Saudi Arabia, The Stait of Hormuz, and The US Naval Base in Bahrain. The missle attacks would likely be with conventional weaponary but could include Chem / Bio capability.

- The Iranian Army has 50,000 Specal Forces available. They would easily be able to inflitrate into Iraq (if not already there) and give direct and indirect support to the insurgency in Iraq. The Iranians might lauch a direct brigade level attack in southern Iraq in the area in and around Basra. This area is weakly defended by the British and is very close to the Iranian Border.


- The Strait of Hormuz would be attacked with oil tankers sunk with shore to ship missles, artillery, sea mines, and special forces. All shipping through this strait through which 75% of the worlds crude passes would be halted immediately.

Within 24 hours the insurgency in Iraq would be at record levels. The rest of the middle east could or likely would erupt because of the attack and would blame Israel. Egypt, Syria, and Libya, would put their military forces and alert and pledge to support Iran. Russia and China would denounce the attack and go to the UN. Russia would provide indirect support to the Iranians, they could potentially provide direct support to Iran to insure that we do not actually invade the country.

Note, it is widely known, but not widely reported that US forces stopped the invasion of Iraq in the first Gulf War when the Russians mobilized two Airborne Divisions and had them at an airfield in Russia ready to load and conduct an airborne operation to take Baghdad Airport before US troops could get there. The US backed off rather than have US troops face Russian troops in open combat.

US casualities would be 2000 - 5,000 KIA within a week. Gas prices in the US would be 10.00 per gallon if there is gas available at the pump at all. The stock market would dive 3,000 or more points.

This would not be a good day to be a soldier.


***

Chilling.