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Thread: World War Three Thread....

  1. #61
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    It might explain why this is happening now...


    http://informationdissemination.blog...ck-to-sea.html




    Monday, August 25, 2008

    Breaking: Moskva Scrambles Back to Sea - Updated

    Interesting breaking news coming from Russia. Apparently after returning to port on August 23rd, the Moskva went back to sea today sailing from Sevastopol to Novorossiisk. Why? The article details some new events off the coast of Georgia. (translation mine)

    Deputy Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn told reporters that there are nine NATO ships off the coast of Georgia. Among them, two U.S. ships, one Spanish, German, and Polish ship, and four Turkish ships. "This increases the degree of tension in the region," - the General stressed.
    So much for NATO exercises, looks like NATO has other plans first. This is the first report we have seen regarding the Turkish Navy acting in response to the conflict.

    There are no details regarding which four Turkish warships are there, but the other ships would be the SPS Juan de Borbon (F102), the Polish frigate ORP General K. Pulaski (272), the German frigate FGS Lubeck (F214), the US Navy destroyer USS McFaul (DDG 74), and the USCGC Dallas (WHBC 716).

    Will be interesting to see if this is just Russian crap media reporting, of which I have read a lot this month, or confirmed by other western media reporting.

    Updated: Confirmed, Reuters is also reporting that the Moskva will conduct weapon testing.
    Posted by Galrahn at 12:18 PM
    Labels: Black Sea, Georgia, NATO, Russia
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Russian missile ship heading for Georgia
    The Georgian Times ^

    The Russian missile ship “Moscow” has set off from Sevastopol city in direction of Georgia.


    Russia has expressed concern that NATO is continuing to get a stronger foothold in the Black Sea waters, the deputy chief of Russian General Staff said Monday as reported by RIA Novosti, Russian news agency.


    According to the news agency, there are a total of 9 NATO ships in the Black Sea equatorial. The NATO military ships are currently in the Black Sea on a humanitarian mission for Georgia.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Russia recognises Georgia rebel regions
    26 Aug 2008 14:27:17 GMT
    Source: Reuters

    By Denis Dyomkin

    SOCHI, Russia, Aug 26 (Reuters) - Russia recognised two rebel regions of Georgia as independent states on Tuesday, escalating tension in the volatile Caucasus and putting Moscow on a collision course with the West.

    Flanked by a Russian flag and a presidential banner, a sombre President Dmitry Medvedev said Tbilisi's desire to seize back Abkhazia and South Ossetia by force had killed all hopes for their peaceful co-existence in one state with Georgia.

    "(Georgian President Mikheil) Saakashvili chose genocide to solve his political tasks," Medvedev declared in a statement broadcast from his summer residence in the resort of Sochi.

    "...The peoples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia have more than once spoken in referenda supporting the independence of their republics. We understand that after what had happened...they have the right to decide their fate themselves.

    Medvedev's move came as Russian tanks and troops still occupied parts of Georgia after a brief war over South Ossetia earlier this month -- the first time Moscow has sent troops into another country since the end of the Soviet Union in 1991.

    The United States, NATO and European powers swiftly attacked Moscow's decision.

    U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described it as "regrettable" while German Chancellor Angela Merkel termed it "absolutely unacceptable". Britain "categorically rejected" the decision and France expressed dismay.

    Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said the Russian government leadership had "chosen a policy of confrontation, not only with the rest of Europe, but also with the international community in general."

    LIMITED OPTIONS

    But in reality the West's ability to punish Russia is limited.

    United Nations sanctions against Russia are out of the question as Russia has a veto in the Security Council. Major powers are also wary of any action that might make Russia withdraw its support against Iran over its nuclear programme and transit support for NATO forces in Afghanistan.

    Retaliation could involve Russian membership of the big international clubs: excluding Moscow from the Group of Eight (G8) top industrial democracies or blocking its bid to join the World Trade Organisation (WTO).

    Speaking in an interview with the Kremlin-controlled Russia Today television channel, Medvedev said he was not frightened by the prospect of a new Cold War.

    "Nothing scares us, including the prospect of a Cold War, but we don't want it," Medvedev said. "In this situation, everything depends on the position of our partners."

    The Kremlin instructed the Foreign Ministry to establish diplomatic ties with the two regions and ordered the Defence Ministry to guarantee peace there.

    Jubilant residents in the Abkhaz capital Sukhumi fired shots into the air, uncorked champagne bottles and wept after the news from Moscow.

    "We feel happy. We all have tears in our eyes. We feel pride for our people," said Aida Gabaz, a 38-year-old lawyer.

    Hundreds of people gathered in the main square of the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali, hugging each other and waving the separatist flag. There was a deafening roar of celebratory gunfire from Kalashnikov guns and antique hunting rifles.

    Georgia's Deputy Foreign Minister Giga Bokeria described Moscow's recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as an "unconcealed annexation" of Georgian territory.

    FREEZE INEVITABLE

    Russian stocks fell on Medvedev's announcement to their lowest levels in nearly two years and the cost of insuring Russian debt increased as traders worried about rising tension.

    "The recognition of these two entities is clearly a step in the wrong direction from the stock markets' point of view," said David Aserkoff, an equity strategist at Renaissance Capital.

    Before Medvedev's announcement, Russia's envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, compared the position to the eve of World War One, saying a new freeze in relations was inevitable.

    "The current atmosphere reminds me of the situation in Europe in 1914 ... when, because of one terrorist, leading world powers clashed," Rogozin told the RBK Daily business newspaper.

    He announced at a press conference later that Russia planned to halt visits by senior NATO officials and joint military exercises with the alliance.

    "If they (NATO) start smashing the dinnerware, then we can add more to the list," Rogozin said.

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov later told reporters he believed common sense would prevail in the international community over the Georgian crisis. (Additional reporting by Oleg Shchedrov in Moscow and Indira Bartsits in Sukhumi; writing by Michael Stott in Moscow; editing by Jon Boyle/Robert Hart)
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    US anger at Russian Georgia vote
    BBC News ^ | August 26, 2008

    US President George W Bush has urged Russia not to recognise Georgia's two breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.

    Mr Bush's comments came after Russia's parliament passed a non-binding motion calling on President Dmitry Medvedev to support the enclaves' independence bid.

    The US has said such recognition would be contrary to international law and has pledged to stand by Georgia.

    Russia and Georgia fought a brief war this month over the two provinces.

    Moscow launched a counter-attack after Tbilisi tried to retake South Ossetia from rebels by military force.

    The US and a number of Western governments have backed Georgia, sending aid and issuing strongly-worded statements.

    In a statement, Mr Bush called on Russia's leadership to "meet its commitments and not recognise these separatist regions".

    "The United States will continue to stand with the people of Georgia and their democracy and to support its sovereignty and territorial integrity," he said.

    The US state department has said recognition of the two provinces' independence would be "a violation of Georgian territorial integrity" and "inconsistent with international law".

    Leaders from Germany, the UK and Italy also expressed concern that the vote would raise tensions further in the Caucasus.

    Meanwhile Alexander Stubb, the head of the European security organisation, the OSCE, has accused Russia of trying to empty South Ossetia of Georgians.

    He told the BBC that OSCE military observers were trying to visit as much of South Ossetia as possible to clarify the situation.

    "They are clearly trying to empty southern Ossetia from Georgians, which I don't think goes by any of the books that we deal with in international relations," he said.

    Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have effectively been independent since breaking away in the early 1990s.

    While they have enjoyed Russian economic and diplomatic support, and

    (Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Russian threat to Nato supply route in Afghanistan
    Times Online ^ | August 26, 2008 | Jeremy Page

    Russia played a trump card in its strategic poker game with the West yesterday by threatening to suspend an agreement allowing Nato to take supplies and equipment to Afghanistan through Russia and Central Asia.

    The agreement was struck at a Nato summit in April to provide an alternative supply route to the road between the Afghan capital and the Pakistani border, which has come under attack from militants on both sides of the frontier this year.

    Zamir Kabulov, the Russian Ambassador to Afghanistan, told The Times in an interview that he believed the deal was no longer valid because Russia suspended military cooperation with Nato last week over its support for Georgia.

    Asked if the move by Russia invalidated the agreement, he said: “Of course. Why not? If there is a suspension of military cooperation, this is military cooperation.”

    Mr Kabulov also suggested that the stand-off over Georgia could lead Russia to review agreements allowing Nato members to use Russian airspace and to maintain bases in the former Soviet Central Asian states of Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

    “No one with common sense can expect to cooperate with Russia in one part of the world while acting against it in another,” he said.

    His remarks are likely to alarm Nato commanders because the Taleban have been targeting the supply routes of the alliance this year, mimicking tactics used against the British in 1841 and the Soviet Union two decades ago. Nato imports about 70 per cent of its food, fuel, water and equipment from Pakistan via the Khyber Pass, and flies in much of the rest through Russian airspace via bases in Central Asia. It has not started using the “northern corridor” because the deal – covering nonmilitary supplies and nonlethal military equipment – has yet to be cleared with the

    (Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Russia warns Moldova against "Georgian mistake"
    Reuters ^ | Aug 25, 2008 | Denis Dyomkin

    SOCHI, Russia (Reuters) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev warned ex-Soviet Moldova on Monday against repeating Georgia's mistake of trying to use force to seize back control of a breakaway region.

    Russia sent peacekeepers to Moldova in the early 1990s to end a conflict between Chisinau and its breakaway Transdniestria region and is trying to mediate a deal between the two sides.

    Transdniestria, one of a number of "frozen conflicts" on the territory of the former Soviet Union, mirrored the standoff between Georgia and its rebel regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia until they erupted in war earlier this month.

    Russia sent troops to Georgia to crush Tbilisi's military push into South Ossetia and Moscow says Georgia has now lost the chance of ever re-integrating the breakaway provinces.

    "After the Georgian leadership lost their marbles, as they say, all the problems got worse and a military conflict erupted," Medvedev told Moldovan President Vladimir Voronin.

    "This is a serious warning, a warning to all," he added. "And I believe we should handle other existing conflicts in this context."

    (Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Russian Rocket: All Fueled Up, But No Place to Fly
    Space.com ^ | 22 August 2008 | Jim Oberg

    Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 5:41:34 PM by anymouse

    In another frustrating foul-up on the path towards converting Soviet-era military missiles into cash-paying satellite launchers, a military-industrial team in Moscow has announced the 'indefinite suspension' of plans to launch an earth resources survey satellite for Thailand.

    The reasons: at the last moment, for the second time, overflight permission has been revoked by a country downrange of the launch site. First Uzbekistan, and now Kazakhstan, denied permission for dropping the booster's spent first stage onto their territories.

    "We never thought we'd see a repeat of the Uzbekistan case," lamented Thongchai Charuppat, director of Thailand's "GeoInformatics and Space Technology Development Agency (GISTDA)" which owns the European-built payload. The second denial, he added, was "worse because the cancellation was made at the last minute," even though "all functional systems were in place and the rocket was fully fueled."

    The rocket, a converted RS-20V "Voyevoda" (Russian for "war chief") known as the SS-18 "Satan" to the Pentagon, had finished 25 years of alert duty in 2005, and had been stored awaiting a more peaceful assignment. The countdown was underway towards a launch at 1.37 p.m. Thailand time (2:37 a.m. EDT) on Aug. 6. Then the clock stopped.

    "We are waiting for the negotiation between the launch company (ISC Kosmotras) and Kazakhstan," he told the newspaper Bangkok Post on Aug. 7. "The problem is not with the satellite, which is now ready to work," he added. No other information has been released in Moscow, where the company's website has not been updated in more than a year.

    War surplus rockets for sale

    In what had looked like a 'win-win-win' situation for all concerned, a Ukrainian rocket factory had been acquiring old military missiles from the Russian 'Strategic Rocket Forces' and adding an off-the-shelf upper stage to create a satellite launch capability that they then sold to foreign customers. The project, named 'Dnepr' after the Ukrainian river, had already launched ten such vehicles into orbit, mostly from rented facilities at the Russian government's space base at Baikonur, now in independent Kazakhstan in central Asia.

    In order to lower launch costs even more, and to get more training benefit for the military missilemen, in the past several years launches had also been made from a Russian military missile base near Orenburg, east of the southern Ural Mountains. A test launch of a missile was made in December 2004 and orbital launches followed.

    You can't get there from here

    The problem with the current launch — which could be either permanently unfixable, or alternately could be cleared up overnight by appropriate cash transfers between official and/or private Asian bank accounts — stems from the special orbital path of this particular satellite. The satellite, named THEOS (Thailand Earth Observation Satellite), needed to be in what is called a 'sun-synchronous' orbit around the Earth.

    In such a path, earth observation satellites maintain a constant angle to illuminating sunlight over their observation regions. This is done by using a near polar orbit — traveling closely to a north-south or south-north track — with a slightly more 'retrograde' slant added in. That extra slant allows the Earth's equatorial bulge to gently twist the orbital plane of the satellite to the east about one degree per day. This is the same rate that the sun moves against an inertial reference frame in Earth's 365-day circuit.

    As a result, the orbit 'keeps pace' with that daily shift and thus obtain surface images month-by-month that have similar lighting conditions and can be precisely contrasted to monitor real changes. All long-term low-orbit earth observation satellites, military and civilian, use this kind of orbit.

    But to get into such a path, the satellite must be carried not on the most efficient eastwards launch trajectory, but initially towards either the south or north pole. This crosses different regions of Earth, including some areas near launch sites that are unaccustomed to jettisoned rocket stages falling out of the sky. And it didn't help that two years ago a launch of a Dnepr due south from Baikonur crashed to Earth when the first stage failed, leaving a large crater and spraying toxic fuel over Kazakh pasturelands. A subsequent early-in-ascent crash of a much-heavier 'Proton' rocket the following summer did little to endear the Kazakhstan government to Russian rocketry.

    To launch from the other Dnepr site in Orenburg Province, an ascent path heading just west of due south would have dropped the spent first stage — still containing significant amounts of leftover fuel — into a desert region of Uzbekistan. But late last year, the Uzbek government refused to grant permission.

    Although the 'Kosmotras' company has released no information on what came next, it appears that its engineers redesigned the rocket's ascent path, shifting it slightly to the right (or westwards) to move the planned impact zone into Kazakh territory, in the Karakiya District of the Mangystau Province in far southwestern Kazakhstan.

    After dropping the first stage, the rocket could then shift back onto its desired track. This navigational method, called a 'dog leg maneuver' after the kink in a canine hind leg, is fairly common in rocket science, and it trades a slight decrease in orbital payload capability for a much more environmentally acceptable early ascent path.

    Defection of the backup option

    But now it seems that even the alternate ascent path is unacceptable, this time to Kazakhstan government officials in Astana, the country's capital. There could be any of a number of reasons, or a combination of them all.

    Perhaps it's simply an issue of clean-up guaranties, or of insurance, or even of private under-the-table payoffs — or perhaps it's just national pride. Only days before the scheduled launch, a cynical article in the Moscow Times had criticized "Moscow's seeming indifference to Astana's demands that Russian engineers and space companies drastically change launch procedures at Baikonur for public safety and environmental reasons." Outraged by the two recent crashes in their countryside, the Kazakhs have demanded a rapid phase-out of hydrazine-fuelled rockets at Baikonur, and although Moscow has signed an agreement to do so, it has made no move in that direction.

    The article's author, satellite technology expert Peter J. Brown, concluded that despite the fuss, "Kazakhstan seems comfortable in Russia's orbit," hinting its complaints may only be for show: "While Astana goes on shouting that the [hydrazine rockets] must go, its ties to Moscow remain firm."

    In Astana, nationalistic officials may have seen the article — or sensed similar sentiments directly from among Russians they were negotiating with — and concluded they had to get tougher to be taken seriously. Poor Thailand could only watch stunned as its grounded, but fully flight-worthy, observation satellite became the club for Kazakhstan to beat Russia with.

    Any solution to this impasse must be navigated on Earth, and not in space, where the trajectory rules are much less clear-cut and the mission trade-offs much murkier.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    US ready to put Russian nuclear deal on ice
    ft.com ^ | August 25 2008 | Daniel Dombey

    The Bush administration is set to put a high-profile nuclear deal with Russia on hold, according to US diplomats.

    Officials expect Condoleezza Rice, US secretary of state, to recommend that George W. Bush, president, recall the civil nuclear co-operation agreement from Congress in the wake of Russia's conflict with Georgia.

    "At this point, it's dead," a congressional staffer said.

    The deal would be one of the most visible victims so far of tensions between Washington and Moscow, which have risen to levels rarely seen since the end of the cold war. US officials have warned Russia it faces "consequences" for its conduct in Georgia and they increasingly write off Russia's hopes of joining the World Trade Organisation.

    The move to put the nuclear agreement on ice would darken prospects for bilateral co-operation between the two countries in the area of nuclear safety.

    US hopes of United Nations action on issues such as Iran's nuclear programme depend on working with Russia. The campaigns of John McCain and Barack Obama, the Republican and Democratic candidates for president, have also spelled out programmes for collaborating with Russia on arms control and non-proliferation initiatives.

    Moscow has put great store in the civil nuclear co-operation deal, which would permit the potentially lucrative transfer of fuels and materials between the two countries. The US had earlier argued the agreement was needed to set up an international nuclear fuel bank in Russia.

    The idea of such a facility, intended to dissuade countries from developing highly sensitive nuclear technologies, has won broad international support.

    The deal faced resistance in Congress even before the Russia-Georgia conflict.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Breaking news.

    Fox reporting that the Russian President stated they were not "blocking US ships" and further "but we all know they aren't bringing in humanitarian assistance"... Fox reporter further said he believed the Russian president believes the US is taking in weapons.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Rice calls Russia's declaration 'regrettable'

    Associated Press - August 26, 2008 8:53 AM ET

    RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is calling Russia's recognition of breakaway Georgian territories "regrettable."

    Rice said Tuesday at a news conference that Russia's formal recognition of the territories at the heart of its war with Georgia "puts Russia in opposition to the Security Council resolution to which it is a party."

    Rice termed the move "regrettable." On Monday, President Bush had appealed to Russia's president to ignore the advice of lawmakers and refrain from recognizing Georgia's breakaway regions as independent.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Cheney's Not-So-Soothing Presence
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082601591.html

    By Dan Froomkin
    Special to washingtonpost.com
    Tuesday, August 26, 2008; 12:10 PM

    President Bush yesterday telegraphed in the clearest possible way that he's not interested in turning down the heat on the simmering geopolitical conflict with Russia. Quite the contrary. He's sending Vice President Cheney to harry Russia's borders.

    The White House announced that Cheney is headed to Azerbaijan, Georgia, and the Ukraine -- as well as Italy -- as soon as he's done speaking at the Republican convention Monday night.

    Dan Eggen writes in The Washington Post: "The trip will put the Bush administration's most prominent hawk in a war zone still occupied by lingering Russian troops, and is likely to irritate leaders in Moscow, who have condemned the United States for siding with Georgia in the conflict.

    "It will also underscore the extent of disagreement within the Bush administration over how forcefully to confront Moscow. Cheney and his aides unsuccessfully argued in favor of increasing military aid to the fledgling Georgian democracy, according to officials familiar with the debate. . . .

    "Cheney's visit is likely be watched closely in part because he is widely seen as a representative of the Bush administration's most hawkish tendencies. During a trip to Lithuania in May 2006, Cheney accused Russia of 'unfairly and improperly' restricting the rights of its people, and of using oil and gas as 'tools of intimidation or blackmail' against its neighbors. The comments enraged Russian officials and complicated ongoing negotiations over Iran's nuclear program. . . .
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    "Andrew Kuchins, director of the Russia and Eurasia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said Cheney's visit will probably amplify the 'mixed messages' coming from Washington over the Georgian crisis. 'Cheney certainly has had a tougher view on Russia than some others in the administration,' he said.

    "While Bush and others from both parties have railed against Russia for its actions, the official U.S. response has been limited primarily to diplomatic efforts and humanitarian aid. The Pentagon has explicitly ruled out a military confrontation with Russia."

    In a story that the White House press office called attention to in its morning e-mail blast, the UK Press Association reports: "In a direct challenge to Russia, the US has announced it intends to deliver humanitarian aid to the beleaguered Georgian port city of Poti, which Russian troops still control through checkpoints on the city's outskirts.

    "The aid will be delivered on Wednesday by ship, a US embassy spokesman said.

    "While Western nations have called the Russian military presence in Poti a clear violation of an EU-brokered cease-fire, a top Russian general countered on Tuesday that using warships to deliver aid was 'devilish'.

    "'The heightened activity of Nato ships in the Black Sea perplexes us,' Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said in Moscow."

    Of course, the Russians aren't exactly waving olive branches, either.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Dunno what to make of this statement... wow...

    U.S. no longer confirms navy ships headed for Poti

    The U.S. embassy in Tbilisi on Tuesday retracted a statement saying a U.S. destroyer and another ship were headed for the Georgian port city of Poti, where Russian forces are deployed. (UPDATED)

    "We cannot now confirm that U.S. ships will be travelling to Poti," embassy spokesman Stephen Guice said.

    Guice had earlier said the USS McFaul, a destroyer, and another U.S. ship, the Dallas coast guard cutter, were to arrive Wednesday in the strategic Black Sea port.

    Russian forces have carried out patrols in Poti after the bulk of Moscow’s forces withdrew from Georgia last Friday.

    Moscow says it has the right under a French-brokered deal to maintain an "area of responsibility" far into the country’s territory, including in and around Poti.

    The McFaul arrived at the port city of Batumi on Sunday as the first of three U.S. ships that are to carry thousands of blankets, hygiene kits, baby food and infant care supplies to Georgia.

    "At the request of the Georgian government, they will be delivering humanitarian aid to Poti," Guice had earlier said.

    Asked about the presence of Russian soldiers in Poti, Guice had said: "We are not trying to provoke anything, but we are willing to go wherever to deliver humanitarian aid."

    Russia has accused NATO countries of using humanitarian aid as cover for a build-up of naval forces in the Black Sea in the wake of the conflict.

    Russia sent tanks and troops into Georgian territory in response to a Georgian offensive on August 7 to retake South Ossetia, a breakaway region backed by Moscow.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    US slams Russian recognition of breakaway areas

    By PAULINE JELINEK – 41 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States said Russia is behaving "appallingly" by granting formal diplomatic recognition Tuesday to two breakaway Georgian provinces at the center of this month's conflict.

    Meanwhile, the United States dispatched a military ship bearing aid to a Georgian port city still patrolled by Russian troops.

    Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Russia has no business declaring the provinces independent of U.S.-backed Georgia while the United Nations Security Council on which Russia sits has declared that the regions are part of Georgia.

    "I think it is regrettable," Rice said when asked at a news conference in Ramallah, West Bank about Russia's announcement. "It puts Russia of course in opposition to a number of Security Council resolutions to which it is party, most appallingly as a member of the P-5." She was using the shorthand for the permanent five members of the powerful Security Council: the United States, Britain, France, China and Russia. All have veto power.

    Rice said the U.S. regards Abkhazia and South Ossetia as "part of the internationally recognized borders of Georgia" and will use its veto power in the Security Council to block any Russian attempt to change their status.

    "This simply will be dead on arrival," Rice said as she finished a two-day Mideast peace mission.

    In Washington, State Department spokesman Robert Wood said the United States is looking at a variety of options to respond.

    "We're not trying to escalate anything," Wood said when asked whether disagreement between the West and Russia would jeopardize international cooperation. But, he added, "We obviously can't allow what Russia's done to go without there being some consequences."

    He would not provide details about possible punishment the U.S. is considering.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Georgia forced Russia's hand by trying to reassert control by force in the smaller of the two regions, South Ossetia, on Aug. 7. The self-governing regions seek independence from Georgia and eventual annexation to Russia. Russia has given Russian passports to many non-Georgians living in the provinces.

    Russian tanks and troops drove deep into undisputed Georgian territory in a five-day war that Moscow saw as a justified response to a military threat in its backyard and the West viewed as a repeat of Soviet-style intervention.

    The United States has said Russia is not fully complying with a cease-fire signed more than a week ago. Rice noted that the cease-fire calls for international input to settle the future of the two breakaway regions.

    "To pre-empt both international discussions is extremely unfortunate," Rice said. "It simply means that the Russian president continues not to honor the commitments that the Russians have signed on to."

    Russian forces have staked out positions beyond the de-facto borders of the separatist regions, which the U.S. and other Western nations call a cease-fire violation.

    "While there have been some significant Russian movements, they are not yet living up to the terms of the cease-fire agreement," Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said Tuesday.

    He said there still is a "sizable Russian presence in Georgia," though he declined to discuss the specific locations of the remaining troops.

    Russian forces have established some "self-declared security zones" as well as checkpoints, security posts and so on, Whitman said.

    Two checkpoints are near the edge of Poti, one of Georgia's most important Black Sea ports — one by a bridge that provides the only access to Poti. The Russian military is also claiming the right to patrol in the city.

    Angering Russia, the United States sent the missile destroyer USS McFaul to the southern Georgian port of Batumi, well away from the conflict zone, to deliver 34 tons of humanitarian aid on Sunday. The McFaul left Batumi on Tuesday but would remain in the Black Sea area, said Commander Scott Miller, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's 6th Fleet in Naples, Italy. The U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas, meanwhile, was headed for Georgia with a shipment of aid. It may try to enter Poti.

    While Western nations have called the Russian military presence in Poti a clear violation of an EU-brokered cease-fire, a top Russian general countered Tuesday that using warships to deliver aid was "devilish."

    "The heightened activity of NATO ships in the Black Sea perplexes us," Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn said in Moscow. Suspicion persists in Russia that the ships are clandestinely delivering military materiel.

    The U.S. has been informing Russia along the way as it has sent military planes and ships to the area. Whitman said the U.S. has made clear its "purpose and intent" and that Washington was "not anticipating any problems."
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Fox just verified what I thought I heard. President Mededev is stating he believes the US is bringing weapons in.

    There is currently a US Destroyer sailing into the Black Sea through the straits at Turkey (I believe from the description).
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Russian relations with West reach new low

    By Shaun Walker in Tblisi
    Tuesday, 26 August 2008
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    Russia’s relations with the West have plunged to a new low after President Dmitry Medvedev signed a decree officially recognising two breakaway territories in Georgia as independent states.

    "We are not afraid of anything, including the prospect of a new Cold War," said Mr Medvedev, after signing the decree in defiance of the US and Europe. The decision, marking a U-turn for Russian policy, was swiftly condemned by Western leaders who urged Russia to reverse the "highly provocative" decree which violates international law.

    The foreign secretary, David Miliband, who is flying to Kiev today (wed) to demonstrate the West’s solidarity with Ukraine – which like Georgia has been invited to become an eventual Nato member – said he was consulting partners to ensure "the widest possible coalition against Russian aggression on Georgia." Although aides would not speculate on possible sanctions against Moscow, Mr Miliband is expected to argue in a speech today that Russia will be judged by its actions and "there will be consequences," said one.

    The US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, described the decision as "regrettable" and warned that it would be "dead on arrival" at the UN.

    The decree accused Georgia of "genocide" in South Ossetia and said that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili’s actions had left Russia with no other option but to recognise the independence of both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. "This is a difficult choice, but it is the only chance to save peoples' lives," it read.

    Both houses of the Russian parliament on Monday voted unanimously in favour of recognising independence for Georgia’s two breakaway states, but Mr Medvedev was urged by the West to refrain from officially recognising them.

    Mr Saakashvili reacted with fury after holding a meeting of his security council and accused Russia of "dismembering" his country. He said: "Russia's decision today confirms that its invasion of Georgia was part of a broader, premeditated plan to redraw the map of Europe."

    "Today, the fate of Europe and the free world is unfortunately being played out in my small country," he went on.

    The EU is holding an emergency summit on Georgia next Monday. "I don’t see how anyone can look at Russia in the same way after this," said James Nixey, a Russia analyst at the British think tank Chatham House.

    But the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, painted a picture of a "patient" Russia which had done everything possible over the years to support Georgian territorial integrity. He said the Georgian attack on Tskhinvali on 8 August "changed everything", however, and that "Mr Saakashvili himself buried the territorial integrity of his country".

    Sergei Lavrov, presumably emboldened by the weak and uncoordinated international response to Russia since the crisis begun, said he did not think that the move would spell international isolation for his country. He suggested that Western countries need Russia too much for them to be able to afford cutting off links entirely, and effectively told the West to choose between Russia and Georgia.

    "National interests and considerations are much more important than saving the face of someone who has discredited himself," said Mr Lavrov.

    He added that the Russian side had made it quite clear to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who brokered the ceasefire agreement, that the status of the two regions would be up for negotiation, and claimed that the French leader "endorsed" this.

    The recognition was "absolutely unavoidable... legally, historically, and morally," said Mr Lavrov, who has previously said that the world can "forget about" Georgian sovereignty over the two territories.

    There was an outpouring of joy in the capitals of the two breakaway regions, as locals gathered, firing guns into the air and cracking open bottles of champagne. The South Ossetian separatist government released a statement thanking Russia and saying it was ready to develop "friendly relations with all countries" who followed Russia’s example.

    There is unlikely to be a long queue of countries lining up to recognise Georgia’s two breakaway states, however. Even Russia’s closest allies in the post-Soviet world, such as Belarus, have remained ambivalent on the Russian invasion of Georgia, and are unlikely to formally recognise the two new "countries."

    While the Georgians believe that Russia has been plotting to undermine Mr Saakashvili’s pro-Western government for several years, the intensity of Russia’s response to the Georgian assault on South Ossetia continues to take Tbilisi by surprise. In a private conversation on Tuesday night, one Georgian minister said it would be a "few weeks" before international pressure ensured the full withdrawal of Russian troops from the conflict zones. Now, it looks like Moscow plans to stay there indefinitely.

    In an interview with the BBC, Mr Medvedev accused the US of using the cover of humanitarian aide to ship in weapons for the Georgian government.

    Some Georgian officials suggested that the decision by Russia could have a profound knock-on effect within its own borders, where Moscow has spent much of the last 15 years fighting a war against a separatist movement in Chechnya.

    "This will have very heavy political consequences for Russia," said Georgian Justice Minister Nika Gvaramia. "We will overcome this crisis, I am sure; but what Russia is going to do with its own state – in respect of separatism, which is still a problem in Russia, I do not worry much about it, but I am sure that it will lead to a total collapse of Russia if not today, tomorrow for sure."
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    EU condemns Russia move on Georgia regions

    Reuters
    Tuesday, 26 August 2008
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    EU president France firmly condemns Russia's decision to recognise two rebel regions of Georgia as independent states, President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said on Tuesday, calling for a political solution.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev announced earlier on Tuesday he had decided to recognise the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia despite calls by Western powers for him to respect Georgia's territorial integrity.

    "(The European Union presidency) firmly condemns this decision," Sarkozy's office said in a statement.

    "It calls for a political solution to the conflicts in Georgia. It will examine the consequences of Russia's decision from this point of view," it added.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD
    Syria, Iran warm to Russia as US tensions grow

    Tuesday, August 26, 2008

    By SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writer

    BEIRUT, Lebanon — Syria's President Bashar Assad has publicly stepped up his outreach to old ally Russia in recent days, seeking aid to build up Syrian military forces and offering Moscow help in return _ in an apparent effort to exploit a new Russian-American rift.

    U.S. officials have noticed: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned Mideast leaders this week that they should worry about Syria's efforts to gain more sophisticated weapons.

    Syria's long-term aim, however, remains unclear, in part because Assad also continues to pursue peace efforts with Israel _ a key U.S. and European goal _ even as he makes overtures to Russia that are sure to antagonize the West. Syria has a long history of apparently contradictory diplomatic moves as it maneuvers to find options and balance its interests.

    Yet the latest Syrian moves feed directly into larger Western fears that the Russian-American standoff _ prompted by Russia's invasion of Georgia _ could lead Russia to provide more military and diplomatic aid to a host of countries and militant groups the United States sees as troublesome.

    "The Russian move into Georgia has begun a tectonic shift in the (Mideast) region," said Joshua Landis, a Syria expert in the United States. "It has emboldened Syria, Hezbollah and Iran to push harder against Israel and the U.S."

    Some military officials in Iran have, like the Syrians, openly supported Russian actions in Georgia, although Iran's Foreign Ministry called the clashes merely a result of miscalculations by "powers" and called for dialogue.

    Some Iranian media have gone further, asserting Russia is now less likely to back U.S.-led efforts to pressure Iran to curb its nuclear program.

    The Russian ambassador to Iran, Alexander Sadovnikov, told the official IRNA news agency this weekend that Moscow won't support a new round of U.N. Security Council sanctions against Iran. But that position did not appear to be a direct result of the new Russia-U.S. tensions, because Russia often calls publicly for dialogue.

    "Russia is never after a new (sanctions) resolution. We hope constant contacts between Iran and the IAEA (the U.N. nuclear agency) will lead to a realistic solution, guaranteeing that Iran is not after nuclear weapons technology," IRNA quoted the ambassador as saying.

    Lebanon's Hezbollah is another worry for the West and for Israel.

    The Iranian- and Syrian-backed militants have long hoped for weapons systems and greater diplomatic backing from Russia, Landis said, although there is no evidence Russia has shown more warmth toward Hezbollah lately.

    Hezbollah does not disclose its weapons sources, except to say they are bought on the international market. But it receives money and much hardware from Iran through Syria. Israel complained to Russia that Hezbollah used Russian anti-tank missiles in its war with Israel in 2006. Russia says its sales comply with international rules.

    For now, Syria is the most public example of Mideast fallout from the Georgian fight.

    "Syria's bad negotiating position (with Israel) is leading it to look for more weapons and to try to grow more teeth before returning to the table with Israel," Landis said.

    Both Iran and Syria have long-standing ties with Russia, leading some to play down the recent moves as having little significance. Russia has sold Syria weapons systems in the past, including the advanced surface-to-air Strelets system, and its warships already had been calling on Syria's northern port of Tartous. Many of Iran's weapons systems also have long come from Russian suppliers.

    Yet Assad clearly aimed for deeper ties during last week's Moscow visit.

    He asked Russia for weapons, and Moscow's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, said his government was prepared to sell Syria arms with "defensive character" that would not upset the Mideast's strategic balance _ a reference to Israel, which holds military superiority over its Arab neighbors.

    Syria reportedly is interested in air defense missile systems and aircraft. Notably, Assad also told the Russian business daily Kommersant that Syria was "ready to cooperate with Russia in any way that can strengthen its security," including discussing deploying Iskander missile defense systems on Syrian territory to strengthen Russia's security.

    Assad also said Syria was ready "in principle" to help Moscow respond to the planned U.S. missile defense shield in Europe, although the Russians have not asked for such help, the newspaper said.

    As that news grabbed headlines in the Mideast, Syria's government swiftly denied that Assad had made such an offer to host Russian missiles on Syrian land, or even discussed it with Russia.

    The swift denial apparently came because Syria does not want to overly antagonize the United States. Assad has long wanted to regain the strategic Golan Heights from Israel, and his only chance of that is through a peace deal with Israel. He has long sought more robust U.S. involvement in the negotiations with Israel, maintaining progress is unlikely without it.

    Syria is holding indirect low-level peace negotiations with Israel through Turkey, a U.S. ally.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Barak Obama has condemned Russia's decision to recognize the two provinces as separate countries.

    Not sure what McCain has said.

    But the US is pretty pissed over this. So is the EU.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Cindy McCain visits refugees in Georgia

    10 minutes ago

    TBILISI, Georgia (AFP) — Cindy McCain, wife of US Republican presidential candidate John McCain, on Tuesday visited refugees in Georgia, insisting the timing of her trip had no link to the Democratic convention.

    Cindy McCain visited a school and former government building housing hundreds of Georgians forced to leave their homes for the relative safety of Tbilisi in the conflict with Russia.

    "Each time I see and talk with refugees it breaks my heart," McCain told reporters after visiting the two camps which are supported by the World Food Programme (WFP).

    "The only place these people want to be is home. But they cannot go home because of what happened to them and because of the situation that the Russians have caused."

    "My job in all of this is to make sure the international community does not forget what is going on here," said McCain.

    John McCain fiercely condemned Russia's actions in its conflict with Georgia, and demanded that Moscow be barred from the Group of Eight rich nations club as punishment.

    Her visit to Georgia came a day after Michelle Obama, the wife of her husband's democratic challenger, pledged to the Democratic National Convention that Barack Obama would be an "extraordinary president".

    "Did I do this (trip) because it is during to Democratic National Convention?" asked Cindy McCain, wearing blue jeans and a black t-shirt.

    "The answer is no. I could not come any quicker. The timing just happens to be right now."

    "It is important for us see at first hand what is going on and hear the stories from the displaced people and our friends the Saakashvilis as well," she said, referring to President Mikheil Saakashvili and his wife.

    Reporters noticed that Cindy McCain was wearing a blue brace on her right arm, which she said was necessitated by an over-zealous supporter accidentally tearing ligaments in her forearm during a handshake at a Michigan rally.
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    Default Re: World War Three Thread....

    Published: Aug 26, 2008
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    Georgian Police Forced From Disputed Village
    by Matt Robinson


    Russian forces pushed Georgian police out of a disputed village on the de facto South Ossetian border on Tuesday after a tense stand-off that underlined the fragility of their peace.

    The Russian advance followed several days of posturing by heavily armed Georgian special police and South Ossetian separatists at positions a few hundred meters (yards) apart near the village of Mosabruni.

    The area is mainly populated by Georgians. Russian troops pulled out of the village last week after pouring over Russia's southern border this month to repel an offensive by Georgian forces to retake South Ossetia from pro-Moscow separatists.

    Georgian police and separatist soldiers had been jostling to fill the vacuum before Russian soldiers backed by a low-flying Mi-24 helicopter gunship rolled back into the village and ordered the Georgian police to pull out.

    The move coincided with an announcement by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that Moscow had decided to recognize South Ossetia and Georgia's other rebel region, Abkhazia, as independent states.

    The stand-off in Mosabruni is indicative of the potential for renewed conflict in a region where Georgian and Ossetian villages sit side-by-side and militias control the roads.
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