Learning to Sail

[American Patriot]

Please get in touch with me, either PM here or post a public message if you like, or send me an email at my normal email address (I believe it is listed here on the site).

I'm interested in talking to anyone who might know about sailing - specifically a multi-mast sail boat.

[samizdat]

It's all about tacking, for which the essential elements are good slipknots or screwheads-knobs- a wingnut will do. Nimble knees and swift hands are better, but any old hand can keep the ship on track.

A deep keel and a sturdy rudder are essential. Without the rudder- you're up tha proverbial creek and may need the long keel just for hangin on in the long haul.

In turbulent waters and strong crosswinds- (for logic- imagine only 4 sails- main/front
plus port(left) starboard (right). The front, left and right sails must be tied down at =0 sails in very turbulent taciturn waters. AS if it were a small vertical clothesline.
Drop the main sail as well if it looks like capsize time.

Nice items to have aboard are gallon water jugs and a solar power unit for converting salt to fresh water. Star knowledge would be essential in the event of loss of compass-NB- probably- compass and extra would be damaged by emp burst.

In charted waters- only a protractor and map is needed. Just follow the bueys with binoculars. Red right returning- black left. (the buey not the boat).

Tacking is logical. If the wind is from the north and you want to go north.
Go west b north by using the right sail. Then swith to the port or left sail, going east by north. Depending upon wind strength- one can sail at 45 to 20 or 10 degree angles against the wind. Having easily manageble slipknots or screwdowns on the angles is very useful when travelling north for example in an alternate east-west current. Thereby one can switch from a 30 to 60 degree angle at a kneejerk.

Lifejackets and a very loud foghorn are musts. Speed and regular motorized ships have been known to splice the sails since they cant turn on the quick. It's not a good idea to sail alone.

If you have more than 4 masts- better go to a museum or hire some mates. I have never sailed- i probably learned about this in a museum or some book i lost. Now i remember. I spent several weeks on the Chesapeake bay. But i learned this in a library- flaps on airplanes- sailboats- same principle.

Just pallin around- but the Chesapeake, Potomac or Anacostia would make a fine site for the hopeful new veep family. Any port in a storm. Presiding over the senate is enough to make anyone seasick.

[American Patriot]

Hahaha. Thanks for the helpful tidbits.

I'm looking for someone who actually has sailed, knows how and can do some teaching or someone that needs a couple crew members for some short trips and training.

Other than that, I'll be hitting some local schools for the basics and some certification.

I expect to be crossing oceans in a couple of years on my own ship.

[Ryan Ruck]

Yargh... I dinna be knowin' anything about no sailing vessels but, I do know that since it is now September 19th, tis now officially Talk Like A Pirate Day maties!

[Toad]

In my youth, I had a 16' single masted cat boat 'fer inland sea sailin'. And a 'lil fishin'. An spyin' on a young lass who'd caught me eye. Was many a day I be wishin' it were a bit more motorized, but that was me 16 year ol' brain talkin', everything would have been better faster and moterized. A wee motorcyle accident showed me this not to be entirely true.

Decades later in Seattle I'd rent single and double masted sloops, ketch's, and catamaran's fer weekend gunkholing in the San Juan islands with me first mate, Ms. Toad. Who was fine on the eye, but less so as a deck monkey. In fact she was piss poor with the sails. Had she not work the bikini so well, I'd a made her walk the plank. Backwards.

The art of navigation can come from a book and on land, but the art of the sail is learned on the water day in and day out as often as you can get out there. I highly encourage starting on a small boat single mast. It comes down to sail control, sail control, sail control, as me Dad once said. No, I think he said that a thousand times. My bad.

Since you'll be taking classes I won't go through reefing, halyard management, point-of-sail, and reading the water.(for wind) Entire books are written on those.

Stepping up fromm a single mast to a double mast really requires one thing. More sail control. No wait - "sail control, sail control, sail control." Trimming, reefing, and reaction time are all slowed down depending on the circumstances due to a second mast. Sometimes not at all, other times a booty-load. This is where having a deck mate as a second set of hands becomes of great value. Wait... a deck mate who handles the sails as well as her bikini is of great value. Lessens the workload, and workload over time on the ocean can be absolutely exausting and crushing when you run into strong wind and/or foul weather. Again, that's another book.

I highly suggest go to class and get a 12-20' single mast boat under complete and absolute control so you can tack, trim, reef, night, day, storm, and high wind. Attempting to just step into it after book work looks good on paper, but is a recipe for frustation and a slower learning curve. And a capsize. (sorry Dad.)

A dual mast isn't that much technically harder. It's more work. You can learn faster and easier on a single mast and stepping up will be instictual and a complete non-issue.

~Capt'n Toad
Sailor of the inland seas
San Juan gunkholer
Slightly drunken fisherman
Bikini gazer extraordinaire

P.S.
You do realize the old saying "A boat is just a hole in the water you throw money into" is entirely 110% true? It is however a very enjoyable hole in the water. Just make friends with a Mgr at your local West Marine.

[American Patriot]

Thanks Cap'n. That thar be precisely wot I'm talkin' about!

As you all know Pirates can only read wanted posters though, so I won't mention that I be havin' several books on Piratin'... er... excuse moi... I mean Sailin'.

I'm a fair navigator now, but only on land, and I can generally figure out where I am on the planet, which way is north and survive.

As for the advice, that's already in the plan. Learning a smaller boat, learning all the things we be needin' ta know, and then going to a bigger boat. As for "timing" - well, I plan on taking it SLOW anyway haha.

Eventually we are planning on retiring to a boat, not a PLACE. That means I don't plan on staying in any ONE place for long and I don't plan on dropping money into marinas to care for the boat. The ONLY time I have plans to do that is when I have to travel in-land.

This isn't just some pipe-dream, it's a real plan we're working on so we'll deal with all that and the money issues well ahead of time.

Any others?

Yar!

[Toad]

Do you have topic specific questions Rick? Boat type questions, sail rigging and configuration, pro-con's of multi-hull vs. single hull, ect ect ect...

I'm certainly not any master sailor or expert by any means, but I am what I guess I would call a life-long advanced hands-on amature. I can pull off an advanced technical move, then ram the damn dock. Speaking of which, the liablity aspect on your insurance is not to be overlooked or undervalued.

[American Patriot]

No, not really. I am learning the theory from books. Gonna probably sit in some classes and do practical stuff this springtime (since its getting too late for sailing in Colorado....).

We're both going to take classes and get training and certifications so we can do bareboat rental later on next summer I am hoping.

Our next few vacations will involve sailing - at least that's the plan.

So, no, I really don't have any real questions yet.

I will ask though, since you said "inland seas" I'm assuming you did a lot of lake work, rather than coastal sailing, right? Have you ever actually sailed in an ocean (even near the shorelines)?

[Toad]

Yes, I grew up in Iowa and did a lot of lake sailing throughout the mid-west from the 70's to the 90's. Then in Seattle I just did extended weekend coastal sailing from Victoria/Vancouver down the San Juans, to the Oregon coast. I now live in N. Dakota and am keeping an eye open for a good buy for next summer. The winds up here in N. Dakota are unreal, I look forward to the challenge.

"Gunkholing" is the fine art of mini-cruises to hang out in coves, capes, set anchor and enjoy the scenery with a brew or two, fishing rod, snorkel, good book, and forget the rest of the world exists. It's a beautiful thing.

[Brian Baldwin]

Rick... You might try out a Windjammer Barefoot Cruise. Don't know a damn thing about them but I hear they're good for learning everything you need to know about sailing and rigging and other such... I know I always wanted to learn sailing too.

[American Patriot]

Hey guys, I'm gonna move this thread down to my personal forum area. Perhaps we can continue this discussion down there? I'll leave a link to get there.

Thanks

(I figure I got all the hits I'm gonna get on it now...)

[American Patriot]

Ok, thread moved......

Let me explain what the real purpose of this thread is about.

The wife and I are looking at "retirement". We've discussed this over the years, and have always thought we'd just move to some small house someplace, open a small business and go from there.

In reality, we both are not people who like to sit on our asses all the time (Yeah, we do indeed do that, game and role playing and such, especially World of Warcraft) and both of us are ham radio operators. So we have some rather sedate hobbies. Most of my hobbies are less-than-sedate. I lift weights (again, started it back up a while back) and workout regularly now. I also shoot bows, guns, swim when I can, bike and am a generally active person.

I've discovered that getting LAZY is a disease that can be cured easily by getting back into a routine with a workout or even just doing yardwork. I'm in better shape than I've been in a long, long time. I'm working on getting her to get into shape

With that said, we figure that "retiring" shouldn't mean "quitting". It means "doing something adventurous".

Over the past few years a phrase has popped up time and again around military installations, and my wife even ripped an Air Force Cadet a new one, one afternoon when he used the phrase in a sarcastic way (which most people have been doing).

The phrase is a retort when you ask, "How are you doing?".

The response is a sarcastic or curt, "Livin' the dream, livin' the dream".

My wife heard this remark and ripped him to shreds... explaining to the Cadet (a person who will someday be a commissioned officer in the US Air Force) that he was INDEED living the dream.

He is going to one of the most prestigious Universities on the planet, he's getting a FREE education, courtesy of Uncle Sam. His room and board are paid for him. He gets a stipend upon which he can buy personal items and eventually he/she will be serving in one of the most advanced, best maintained military organizations in the entire world.

He was put in his place properly and I'm proud of her for tearing him up like that.

In hindsight we started considering just what "Living the dream" really is.

My family, as well has hers has fought in wars around the world. My family has been in America since before we were Americans. My family, the "Donaldsons" are originally a seafaring family from Scotland - called MacDonald, or son of the Donald. Over the centuries many of us remained in some way connected to the sea.

My wife's grandpa and her mother came over on a ship in about 1920 or so, landing at Ellis Island. My family came here in small sailing ships in the late 1600s or early 1700s and became some of the pioneers that traveled with Daniel Boone to explore Kentucky and parts westward.

We come from families of adventurers.

So for us, "Living the dream" is adventure, travel, exploration.

I'm too old now to visit Mars when that opens up. I'll be in my 70s.

But by God, there's nothing to stop the two of us from exploring the "Knowe Worlde" is there?

Gas prices are outrageous and no one is expecting gas to drop again below a couple of bucks a gallon, if it drops at all.

Our trips to Jamaica have been true vacations, and we explored a bit, but we didn't really get out much. We rested, but it has given us a chance to experience the tropics for long periods of time.

We have come to the conclusion we now understand something that many people don't understand or even know about - the "Pirates" of olden times weren't all evil men, or just robbers. They were out there trying to make a buck, certainly, and probably illegally many times but their MAIN reason for being where they were was FREEDOM!

I've always been about Freedom. I believe strongly in the idea of Freedom... and I see what drew sailors to the sea. I understand now.

After several long, deep discussions with my wife of 31 years, we've decided that our "retirement" will not so much be a "retirement" but rather a Life Change. Instead of being land-locked and dependent upon our children later in life, gasoline to cross the country, keeping our home up-keep and so forth, we've decided to make our plans toward living along the coast of America as sailors, moving from place to place as the wind will carry us.

So this new Adventure will teach us new skills, and some day in the relatively near future, to new places - in other words, "Livin' the Dream...." - without the sarcasm.

[Brian Baldwin]

Pirates excercised some of the first western democracy too.

Beyond that... Do you think you'll move to harbor location when you do finally retire? Have you thought of building your own boat? (I'd love to help out with that even if it's from design). I've helped build a couple of recreational boats with 350 engines but never a sailboat, and I have to believe they're quite different just in the draft and hull designs but the basics would be the same.

[American Patriot]

No, not gonna build nothing.

Someone has already built the right boat for me.

It will just "appear" one day. Wait and see.

[American Patriot]

Found a 50' ketch I think is cool. Old, but cool. And cheaper.... in CA.

I wrote the guy asking for more information.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/10858

[American Patriot]

(Here's the one I REALLY want hahahahaha)

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/4723

[Brian Baldwin]

beautiful ship... But you'd have to "impress" a crew for it. lol I recommend grabbing up some unsuspecting spring break kids.

[American Patriot]

Hey guys. I'm on my way out.

I have a boat to examine!!! Going to get camera and head over to look it over.

26 footer, MacGregor 26, older boat, price is right. Close to home 8500 bucks.

Not for the ocean just for Colorado Lakes and perhaps some other places we might head too.

In about 3 years we'll be getting the real one.

[Ryan Ruck]

Nice! Sounds like a decent price and a good way to get started on the path to sailing something larger.

[American Patriot]

Wow... it's bigger than I expected (next to my jeep)

I looked it over, looks nice. It's definitely older. Needs a new tiller arm, I can either make one myself or buy it no big deal. The boat is 28 feet long, weighs about 2800 lb dry and is trailered right now (32 feet in length). My Jeep Cherokee should be able to handle it.

I've been having second, third and fourth thoughts about this (it's 8500 bucks, I'm trying to pay bills off so I can hit the ocean)... So there are pros and cons here.

Pros:

Boat is here
Boat is cheap.
Boat is big enough to get a feel for a big boat
I can learn here
It's a big, but BASIC Boat
We can trailer it to lakes near by
Needs some work I can do
I can get out sailing next weekend
I might have to get a small loan to buy it
We can use it to learn to sail
We can use it to learn basic things about boats

Cons:

It's kinda big (bigger than I expected)
Inside is really small (a LOT SMALLER than I expected)
Needs some work (I have to spend some money)
I can NOT store it at my house
I will have to store it at a slip in Pubelo (40 mi away) (200 bucks a month)
I will have to store it in dry storage (No idea of the monthly storage fees right now)
I eventually will have to re-sell it.
It's kinda old (1992 or so)
Had two owners - the most recent one for the last 10 years
Haven't seen the sails (he said they are good though)
Storing it makes it hard to work on
Storing it costs money
Storing it means I have to MOVE it every time I want to work on it or take it out sailing