The Religion of Peace

[Joey Bagadonuts]

More "peaceful" muslims.
I wonder how outraged CAIR and all the other usually-outraged muslims will be at this?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=51859

FAITH UNDER FIRE
Christian beaten for drinking water
Man suffers broken collarbone, dislocated shoulder


Nasir Ashraf

Posted: September 7, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern


A Christian man is recovering from a beating that left him with a broken collarbone and dislocated shoulder after he drank water from a glass reserved for the poor at a construction site in Pakistan.

The report comes from Voice of the Martyrs, the Christian aid organization with a vision for working around the world to help those who are facing persecution for their Christian faith.

The report said Nasir Ashraf, a Christian stonemason, was working on the construction of a room at a school near Manga Mandi outside of Lahore when he got thirsty and took a break.

"He drew water and drank from a glass chained to a cemented public water tank next to a mosque, which was reserved for 'all' poor people," the VOM report said. "Returning to the construction site, a Muslim man asked him, 'Why did you drink water from this glass since you are a Christian?'"

The man then accused Nasir of polluting the glass, yanked the glass off the iron chain, broke it and threw it in a garbage can.

He also summoned other militant Muslims nearby.

"This man polluted our glass," he told them.

The result was an incensed mob that beat Nasir, yelling that a "Christian dog" drank from their glass.

Bystanders encouraged the beating, because it would be a "good" deed that would help them in heaven, the report said.

"The attackers pushed Nasir off a ledge onto the ground, and the fall dislocated his shoulder and broke his collarbone in two places," the VOM report said.

He was unconscious until he was taken to a clinic, the report said, and the physician who said some people had brought him in also told him never to make that mistake again.

Nasir's father took him home and a VOM representative was alerted so that VOMedical could help with his medical treatment and recovery, officials said.

VOM was launched by Rev. Richard Wurmbrand, who wrote "Tortured for Christ" about his experiences representing Christ in war-torn Europe. His testimony, and ministry's work, has spread around the globe.


***

[American Patriot]

The result was an incensed mob that beat Nasir, yelling that a "Christian dog" drank from their glass.

Ladies and Gentlemen... I submit to you, THIS is what the face of racism looks like. This not the way things are done in the United States -- Now, that is not to say it didn't happen here, it has. Hey, I got beat up because I was white a couple of times. Stuff happens.

But, this is PRECISELY the kind of thing that shouldn't be happening and I think Christians ought NOT stand there and "turn the other cheek". You only have so many cheeks and it's time to stomp the crap out of people that do this kind of thing. WHY? BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY THING THEY UNDERSTAND.

[American Patriot]

Oh let me show you this... omg....

Steve Sintani and Olaf Wiggs CONVERSION to ISLAM.... This is something you've NOT seen on television yet, HAVE you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2Sx9YCZW_g&NR

PLEASE for the Love of God, listen to and READ the messages on this video.

This is what they call "NO PRESSURE" huh?

[Aplomb]

Now that these men have gone and done that which proves that the matter of conversion to Islam must be done against your will or die...I no longer have that option. There is nothing left to show anybody. And to repeat a pretense of a conversion will instead show Islamic fascist believers that they are stronger and their god is stronger. When such a day comes my way, I will become a Martyr for Jesus Christ. My only prayer at that time will be for my loved ones to be spared by me taking down several of these butchers with me.

[Backstop]

As my friend told me the other day, 'Hey man, the religion of peace wants to kill me!'

Amazing.

[Isaiah40:31]

The only peace in Islam is when the whole world is converted, even then the 'most holy' will begin killing the muslims who aren't as holy as them.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION??

What a crock of hypocritical bullshit! Then perhaps they can explain to me what they mean by "conversion by sword"?

Watching that tape (which I couldn't finish) reminded me of the US POW's that were tortured, beaten
and threatened into making "confessions" during the VietNam war.

Imagine the worldwide howls if we did that to those dirtbags in Guantanamo??
Yet when it happens to an American and a New Zealander there's nothing but silence. Pathetic.

I'm with you Plummie....I want to be a martyr for Jesus...but I hope I take a busload of them with me before I go.


***

[Brian Baldwin]

I have no wish to be a martyr at all. But I have no problem disabusing them of their notions of doing so. Strongest shall survive. Darwin knew that. We can pray, we can talk nicely, and we can be shocked. Won't change the fact that in the end it comes down to good old ass kickings. That's what settles such arguements. It does in every arena where the other is completely unreasonable and wishes harm upon others.

I refuse to go to war in the name of God because God is more than capable of handling himself. No. I will go to war in the name of Me. Because I'm not going to tolerate their non-sense when the time comes.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

Hiya BB,

Let me clarify my thoughts on martyrdom.
I have no wish to die at all (I like Florida and retirement ) and the thought of being forced to choose between Jesus and death is scary but to me is a no brainer. I won't turn my back on the true God in exchange for a few years of living under sharia knowing I'm a traitor, and I won't go easy when (if) that time comes.


***

[Aplomb]

That's right. When it comes down to it, I, too, will fight to the death. Indeed, many of us here are already standing up against this evil and educating others about Islamic fascist intentions of world-conquest. Like you, Brian, I don't see myself just letting myself be taken or captured without a fight, or even being confronted openly without taking action, whichever the case may be. Yet this situation does happen, as has happened to even Israeli soldiers who had weapons and training in warfare. I have no desire to be killed for the cause of Christ. When the situation becomes one of either I must convert to Islam or be killed, I will accept death. That THEY would kill me for my faith is what makes this taking of human life martyrdom.

Of course, I'd prefer, Brian, that you or Joey or one of us here will be there to kill some jihadists and save my life-- and that is what we will all need to be doing for one another; but my life experience has proven to me that there are few individuals around who will risk assisting others in even just confrontational situations much less dangerous ones. That's part of why we are at where we are today.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention that I should clarify that.

[American Patriot]

I think the time of Islamic Jihadists is coming to a close. There are a lot of them, yes. They are fanatical, yes. However the world is now finally, finally getting the message, albeit slowly, that these people are similar in a manner to Hilter and his people.

They are pressing their beliefs down the throats of others, and forcing people like those two news reporters to convert.

Any time you FORCE a religious conversion, this is TYRANNY. What if someone simply isn't religious? What if someone doesn't care? What if someone DOES care and they believe strongly in their own religion?

No matter which way you look at it, you're forcing someone to take on beliefs they simply... don't believe. You're forcing a mind/thinking change on a person and that is NOT human-rights.

That is REMOVING a human right.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men."

Men, humans have NOT the right to take away the rights of others, their life, their liberty.. even their pursuit of happiness which can be interperted many ways, but it is meant that a person can hold a job, live and enjoy life among his friends and relatives basically. It means that we as humans ought not have our religious views forced upon us.

It means that NO OTHER RELIGION on this planet can tell ANY OTHER RELIGION what, nor how to believe.

This is a simple concept. As a Christian-based society, our society does not go around telling atheists how to believe. Sure there are those who want to "bring the non-believers to the Light".. but these are individual things, and not a societial production whereby we are all trying to force everyone else at the point of a sword, or gun.

The Islamics in these incidents are becoming more and more forceful, and open about their beliefs that "infidels" should be killed. Infidels are those who simply do not believe the way THEY believe, and that is ANY OTHER RELIGION.

The time has come as you're all seeing to stand up and be heard about this. I'm not calling for a Holy War -- I'm calling for Common SENSE to prevail. And as such, it is as Brian stated... that a good, old fashioned ass-kicking is in store for these Islamics/Muslims that want to take over the world and force their religion down our throats and the throats of the rest of the world.

It's time to tell them stand down and mean it, and it's time for us as a collective people to make KNOWN that we as Americans will no longer stand by and watch while AMericans and other innocent people are kidnapped, killed, forced to "convert", held hostage and we are insulted, threatened and attacked.

It's time to tell the Islamofascists to STFU

[Brian Baldwin]

Hey Joey, I understood you alright and even agree. But... My actual point is that I don't see this as a question of religious martyrdom. Even should they force you to convert it wouldn't change what's in your heart. Duress isn't going make you forget Jesus or stop praying to him in your head and within your heart. God still knows is what I mean. He is not fooled as to your beliefs.

To me this is a matter of being forced to eat lima beans and then swear to everyone that they're really good while you're gagging. You'll either do it because you don't want to die or you'll refuse because NO ONE is going to force you to do anything you don't want to do. We're Americans. We don't take that crap off of anyone. Whether eating lima beans or conversion to an insane religion... Duress is Duress and we dig in our heels when it's presented. On an individual basis at least.

Now what do you pick if they threaten your children's lives? Grandchildren? Would you allow them to rape your preteen granddaughter in order to rebuff them? At what point does your christianity kick in to sacrifice for them? Would you even think of Jesus for a second in that scenario? These are all great questions and discussions to have when the gun isn't pointed at your head or your loved ones' heads. As individuals it is easy to suggest we'd die fighting and take them with us. We probably would. But it doesn't always work out so hollywood style.

So Rick is right. It's time we stopped it before it comes to that. It's time right NOW to tell them to STFU. Because if it comes to even one of those scenarios above.... I imagine more than a few of us will be grudgingly carrying Korans around. Because I think we love God enough to make that sacrifice in the end. Pick your battles wisely.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

......and yet again....MORE muslim anger

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5346480.stm


Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger
Muslim religious leaders have accused Pope Benedict XVI of quoting anti-Islamic remarks during a speech at a German university this week.




Questioning the concept of holy war, he quoted a 14th-Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

A senior Pakistani Islamic scholar, Javed Ahmed Gamdi, said jihad was not about spreading Islam with the sword.

Turkey's top religious official asked for an apology for the "hostile" words.

In Indian-administered Kashmir, police seized copies of newspapers which reported the Pope's comments to prevent any tension.

A Vatican spokesman, Father Frederico Lombardi, said he did not believe the Pope's comments were meant as a harsh criticism of Islam.

'Abhorrent'

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born pontiff explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of Byzantine, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The emperors words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

The Pope is due to visit Turkey in November and the Turkish response was swift and strong, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford reports from Istanbul.

Religious leader Ali Badda Kolu said the Pope's comments represented what he called an "abhorrent, hostile and prejudiced point of view".

Whilst Muslims might express their criticism of Islam and of Christianity, he argued, they would never defame the Holy Bible or Jesus Christ.

He said he hoped the Pope's speech did not reflect "hatred in his heart" against Islam.

Many Turks see Benedict as a Turkophobe and commentators call his words just before the holy month of Ramadan "ill-timed and ill-conceived", our correspondent adds.


***

[Brian Baldwin]

The pope's quotes were accurate. Even then they knew something was fishy with that religion. Islam is the most rabid religion I've yet studied. They say the Koran doesn't teach this violence and only the extreme element takes the violent path. But that is incorrect. The whole of Islam preaches this violence and believes in it. Only the occaisional western convert believes it to be a peaceful religion.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

Hiya BB,

I see your point and here's what I think.
Yep, I too believe God knows whats in peoples hearts, but as far as the question of what someone with kids should do if/when the martyrdom question arises......they just need to do what they think is the right thing.

I would never presume to speak for God....but I think He understands....whatever you'd decide. Personally, I have no wife or kids so that would be less leverage for the "enemy" to use against me...but I would NEVER condemn or look down upon anyone who chose to say he converted, but did so out of fear for his loved ones safety, and yet kept his true faith. THAT, my friend is between you and God. The only thing I'd do for anyone facing that decision is to pray for guidance and God's wisdom and love for them

BB...my philosophy on these kinds of matters is......"it's between you and God". We all have to answer for what we do here on this earth. Who am I to look down on you when you have to make a judgement call?

When I wrote earlier about the martyrdom issue.......that was from MY perspective. What "I" would do. As a hypothetical?.....IF I did have kids and they were faced with torture or death if I didn't convert? hey.....Allah is da man! Seriously, I'd probably take the muslim oath and hope that Jesus understands that what I did....I did for love of others and that He KNOWS that my faith in Him and my love for Him has never waivered.
I'm a sucker for little kids, animals and old folks.....I have 6 Godchildren and 1 neice and I'm EXTREMELY protective of those 7 kids. I'm talkin' "mama grizzly bear" protective... so even though I'm not a Dad, I can understand, to a degree.

Most folks here can probably run rings around me with their Biblical knowledge *cough*Sean*cough*...and their ability to quote chapter and verse so I couldn't give anyone sound Biblical advice. But if anyone were (foolish enough) to ask me "what should I do" ?......I'd probably answer..."pray and just do the right thing". That's all we can do pal.


***

[Aplomb]

Brian, I'd like to add some thoughts about this...If you look at what is happening in France or now, even England, you can see that when it comes to Islam taking over, fear and intimidation and violence become the norm. There is just no way that mouthing the words of a false conversion are comparable to pretending to like a vegatable that one secretly hates. These literalist Muslims are going to rape your daughters regardless of any so-called conversions. This is what they believe that they are entitled to. Women are of no importance to them. I would understand anybody doing whatever they have to to save their loved ones. Our soldiers are even putting their lives on the line to save total strangers. In my opinion, however, it is much wiser to think about the inevitable future under Muslim rule when making a decision about what to do. Now being a woman, I certainly don't want my daughters being beaten and raped and divorced or killed for any reason deemed deserving of extracting a price. Will my conversion stop that from happening to them? No. Around the world, Muslims do these things to their own family members all the time. And then, keep in mind that even if you happen to be left in peace with whichever Muslim group you converted to, you will have enemies from the other groups whenever they are not in unity making jihad on infidel groups.

Just in case anybody's wondering if I think God will forgive you for converting--yes, I do.

[Joey Bagadonuts]

.....and still MORE "muslim fury". Juat where is all this "PEACE" that I keep hearing about? I haven't seen even the tiniest bit.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...&icc=NEWS&ct=5



Muslim activists burn an effigy of Pope Benedict XVI during a protest in Srinagar, India.


Muslim fury grows at Pope's speech
Last updated at 13:42pm on 15th September 2006

The furore over comments made by Pope Benedict about the Islamic concept of Holy War continues to grow. Today British Muslims joined in, fiercely criticising his remarks.

The pontiff was accused of falling into "the trap of bigots and racists" with the comments he made on a visit to Germany.

Last night Vatican officials were scrambling to defend the comments, saying the Pope had never intended to offend Muslims.

During a speech, he quoted a 14th century Byzantine emperor who said the prophet Mohammed had brought "things only evil and inhuman".

But Britain's Ramadhan Foundation, a youth organisation based in Rochdale, reacted angrily to the comments, comparing the Pope unfavourably to his predecessor John Paul II.

In a statement it said: "If the Pope wanted to attack Islam and Prophet Muhammad teachings he could have been brave enough to say it personally without quoting a 14th century Byzantine Christian emperor.

"The late Pope John Paul II spent over 25 years to build bridges and links with the Muslim community. He showed the world that its perception of Islam was false and that we are peace-loving people.

"The Ramadhan Foundation is disappointed that the current Pope has not followed the example of his predecessor; it is essential in today's world that we link together and encourage a wider understanding of our different faiths, celebrating our religious differences is essential in a ever expanding world."

Muhammad Umar, chairman of the foundation, said: "This attack on Islam and Prophet Muhammad by Pope Benedict is recognition that he has fallen into the trap of the bigots and racists when it comes to judging Islam on the actions of a small number of extreme elements."

The Pope's speech quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the Pope said.

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached'."

Benedict described the phrases on Islam as "brusque", while neither explicitly agreeing with nor repudiating them.

Pakistan's parliament condemned the "derogatory" remarks today and demanded an apology. The country's foreign ministry said they were "regrettable" and claimed they would encourage violence.

Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi issued a statement defending the speech after Pope Benedict returned to Rome. "It certainly wasn't the intention of the Pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and on Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers," he said.

He insisted that the pontiff wanted to "cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, obviously also toward Islam".

But Turkey's top Islamic cleric Ali Bardakoglu asked Benedict to apologise and made a string of accusations against Christianity, raising tensions ahead of a planned papal visit to the country in November.

He said he was deeply offended by the remarks and called them "extraordinarily worrying, saddening and unfortunate".

The 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference, based in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, said it regretted "the Pope's quote and for the other falsifications". Militant Islamic websites also attacked the Pope.


***

[Joey Bagadonuts]

I wonder what would happen if the Pope had compared muhammed or allah to Hitler?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060915/D8K5ADM80.html

Turkish Lawmaker Compares Pope to Hitler
Sep 15, 9:12 AM (ET)
By SUZAN FRASER


ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - Turkey's ruling Islamic-rooted party joined a wave of criticism of Pope Benedict XVI on Friday, accusing him of trying to revive the spirit of the Crusades with remarks he made about the Muslim faith. A Turkish lawmaker said the pontiff would go down in history "in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini" for his words.

Muslim leaders elsewhere in the world also expressed dismay, with Pakistan's parliament unanimously condemning the pope.

The Vatican said the pope did not intend the remarks - made in Germany on Tuesday during an address at a university - to be offensive.

Benedict quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

Benedict did not explicitly agree with the statement nor repudiate it.

The comments raised tensions ahead of his planned visit to Turkey in November - his first pilgrimage to a Muslim country.

Salih Kapusuz, a deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's party, said Benedict's remarks were either "the result of pitiful ignorance" about Islam and its prophet, or a deliberate distortion.

"He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world," Kapusuz was quoted as saying by the state-owned Anatolia news agency. "It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades."

"Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history for his words," he said. "He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as (Adolf) Hitler and (Benito) Mussolini."

Turkey's staunchly secular opposition party also demanded that Benedict apologize to Muslims before his visit to Turkey.

"The pope has thrown gasoline onto the fire ... in a world where the risk of a clash between religions is high," said Haluk Koc, deputy head of the Republican People's Party, as a small group of protesters left a black wreath in front of the Vatican's embassy in Ankara.

On Thursday, Turkey's top Islamic cleric, Ali Bardakoglu, asked Benedict to apologize for the remarks and unleashed a string of accusations against Christianity.

In Beirut, Lebanon's most senior Shiite Muslim cleric denounced the remarks Friday and demanded the pope personally apologize for insulting Islam.

"We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology - not through his officials - to Muslims for this false reading (of Islam)," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah told worshippers in his Friday prayers sermon.

After Benedict returned to Italy on Thursday, Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said, "It certainly wasn't the intention of the pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and on Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers."

Lombardi insisted the pope respects Islam. Benedict wants to "cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, obviously also toward Islam," he said.

In a significant development Friday, the pope appointed Archbishop Dominique Mamberti, a French prelate with experience in the Muslim world, as the Vatican's new foreign minister.

But anger still swept across the Muslim world, with Pakistan's parliament unanimously adopting a resolution condemning the pope for making what it called "derogatory" comments about Islam, and seeking an apology from him.

"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.

"What he has done is that he has quoted very offensive remarks by some emperor hundreds of years ago," she added. "It is not helpful (because) we have been trying to bridge the gap, calling for dialogue and understanding between religions."

Aslam said Muslims had a long history of tolerance, adding that when the Catholic kingdom of Spain expelled its Jewish population in 1492 they were welcomed by Muslim nations such as the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Indonesia, which has more Muslims than any other in the world, had no immediate response to the pope's comments, but religious groups were quick to protest, condemning the words as insensitive and damaging.

"A respected religious leader like the pope should not say such things, especially as nations across the globe are struggling to find ways to bridge differences between faiths and build understanding," said Ma'ruf Amin, a member of Indonesia Council of Clerics, the country's highest Islamic body.

"Such words hurt Muslims all over the world," he said.

The head of Britain's largest Muslim body said it was disturbed by the pope's use of a 14th century passage. The Muslim Council, which represents 400 groups in Britain, said the emperor's views were "ill-informed and frankly bigoted."

"One would expect a religious leader such as the pope to act and speak with responsibility and repudiate the Byzantine emperor's views in the interests of truth and harmonious relations between the followers of Islam and Catholicism," said Muhammad Abdul Bari, the council's secretary-general.

Elsewhere, Syria's grand mufti, the country's top Sunni Muslim religious authority, sent a letter to the Pope saying he feared the comments would worsen interfaith relations.

In Cairo, Egypt, about 100 demonstrators gathered in an anti-Vatican protest outside the al-Azhar mosque, chanting "Oh Crusaders, oh cowards! Down with the pope!"

Benedict, who has made the fight against growing secularism in Western society a theme of his pontificate, is expected to visit Turkey in late November. He was invited by the staunchly secularist Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer, who said the invitation was part of an effort to strengthen dialogue between religions.


***

[Joey Bagadonuts]

I hope this doesn't mean that the Pope is gonna start the sackcloth and ashes routine now and start a "Papal Apology Tour" now just for speaking the truth.

The Pope wasn't even speaking those words as HIS own thoughts. He was simply quoting someone! What the hell is wrong with these "furious" and "angry" people?

THIS is what a muslim dminated world will mean if they win! NO FREEDOMS AT ALL. Obedience to islam or DEATH!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5349578.stm


Pope 'meant no offence' to Islam

The Vatican has denied that Pope Benedict XVI intended any offence to the Muslim religion, after a speech touching on the concept of holy war.

Speaking in Germany, the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

The remarks have angered clerics and commentators around the Muslim world.

However, the Vatican said the Pope had wanted to make clear that he rejected violence motivated by religion.

The pontiff had not intended to offend Muslims, the Vatican said.

"It certainly wasn't the intention of the Pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and of Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers," said chief Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi in a statement.

"It is clear that the Holy Father's intention is to cultivate a position of respect and dialogue towards other religions and cultures, and that clearly includes Islam."

But the statement has failed to quell criticism. In developments around the world:

Violence and faith

The controversy comes on an important day for the Vatican, with Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, former Archbishop of Genoa, taking over as secretary of state.

Correspondents say Pope Benedict, who has been closeted with his chief advisers at his summer residence near Rome, is upset at the way in which his remarks have been interpreted.

But there is no sense of panic at the Vatican, he says, and preparation for the Pope's forthcoming visit to Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular nation, next November, are going ahead as planned.

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born Pope explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity, and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manuel II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The emperor's words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

"The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application," he added in the concluding part of his speech.

"Only thus do we become capable of that genuine dialogue of cultures and religions so urgently needed today."


***

[Joey Bagadonuts]

You guys need to read the speech for yourselves. It's too long to post here. Here's a link. IT'S A PDF FILE.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/h...09_06_pope.pdf


***