Challenging Obama's Eligibility to be President

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Officers Run Background Check On Obama; Placed On Leave

Posted: 6:55 pm EDT July 29, 2009Updated: 9:08 am EDT July 30, 2009

DEKALB COUNTY, Ga. -- Two DeKalb County police officers have been placed on paid administrative leave after an investigation revealed they ran a background check on President Barack Obama.

A representative for the DeKalb County CEO’s office identified the officers as Ryan White and C.M. Route.

Officials said Obama’s name was typed into a computer inside a DeKalb County police car on July 20 and ran through the National Crime Information Center.

The secret service was immediately notified and contacted the DeKalb County Police Department.

A representative said both officers have been with the department less than five years.

A representative said one of the officers denied involvement.

An official investigation is being conducted by the DeKalb County Police Department’s Internal Affairs division.

It is unclear why the officers ran a check on the president.

[Beetle]

E-mail Author Author Archive Send to a Friend Print Version July 30, 2009 10:00 AM Suborned in the U.S.A. The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born. By Andrew C. McCarthy Throughout the 2008 campaign, Barack Hussein Obama claimed it was a “smear” to refer to him as “Barack Hussein Obama.” The candidate had initially rhapsodized over how his middle name, the name of the prophet Mohammed’s grandson, would signal a new beginning in American relations with the Muslim world. But when the nomination fight intensified, Obama decided that Islamic heritage was a net negative. So, with a media reliably uncurious about political biographies outside metropolitan Wasilla, Obama did what Obama always does: He airbrushed his personal history on the fly. Suddenly, it was “just making stuff up,” as Obama put it, for questioners “to say that, you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections.” “The only connection I’ve had to Islam,” the candidate insisted, “is that my grandfather on my father’s side came from [Kenya]. But I’ve never practiced Islam.” Forget about “Hussein”; the mere mention of Obama’s middle initial — “H” — riled the famously thin-skinned senator. Supporters charged that “shadowy attackers” were “lying about Barack’s religion, claiming he is a Muslim.” The Obamedia division at USA Today, in a report subtly titled “Obama’s grandma slams ‘untruths,’” went so far as to claim that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother is a Christian — even though a year earlier, when Obama’s “flaunt Muslim ties”script was still operative, the New York Times had described the same woman, 85-year-old Sara Hussein Obama, as a “lifelong Muslim” who proclaimed, “I am a strong believer of the Islamic faith.” Such was the ardor of Obama’s denials that jaws dropped when, once safely elected, he reversed course (again) and embraced his Islamic heritage. “The president himself experienced Islam on three continents,” an administration spokesman announced. “You know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father . . .” The “Muslim father” theme was an interesting touch: During the campaign, when the question of Barack Hussein Obama Sr.’s Islamic faith reared its head, the candidate curtly denied it with an air of what’s-that-got-to-do-with-me? finality: “My father was basically agnostic, as far as I can tell, and I didn’t know him.” And, it turns out, the spokesman’s fleeting bit about “growing up in Indonesia” wasn’t the half of it: Obama had actually been raised as a Muslim in Indonesia — or, at least that’s what his parents told his schools (more on that in due course). These twists and turns in the Obama narrative rush to mind when we consider National Review’s leap into the Obama-birth-certificate fray with Tuesday’s editorial, “Born in the U.S.A.” The editorial desire to put to rest the “Obama was born in Kenya” canard is justifiable. The overwhelming evidence is that Obama was born an American citizen on Aug. 4, 1961, which almost certainly makes him constitutionally eligible to hold his office. I say “almost certainly” because Obama, as we shall see, presents complex dual-citizenship issues. For now, let’s just stick with what’s indisputable: He was also born a Kenyan citizen. In theory, that could raise a question about whether he qualifies as a “natural born” American — an uncharted constitutional concept. The mission of National Review has always included keeping the Right honest, which includes debunking crackpot conspiracy theories. The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff. Even Obama’s dual Kenyan citizenship is of dubious materiality: It is a function of foreign law, involving no action on his part (to think otherwise, you’d have to conclude that if Yemen passed a law tomorrow saying, “All Americans — except, of course, Jews — are hereby awarded Yemeni citizenship,” only Jewish Americans could henceforth run for president). In any event, even if you were of a mind to indulge the Kenyan-birth fantasy, stop, count to ten, and think: Hillary Clinton. Is there any chance on God’s green earth that, if Obama were not qualified to be president, the Clinton machine would have failed to get that information out? CERTIFICATE AND CERTIFICATION So, end of story, right? Well, no. The relevance of information related to the birth of our 44th president is not limited to his eligibility to be our 44th president. On this issue, NRO’s editorial has come in for some blistering criticism. The editorial argues: The fundamental fiction is that Obama has refused to release his “real” birth certificate. This is untrue. The document that Obama has made available is the document that Hawaiian authorities issue when they are asked for a birth certificate. There is no secondary document cloaked in darkness, only the state records that are used to generate birth certificates when they are requested. On reflection, I think this was an ill-considered assertion. (I should add that I saw a draft of the editorial before its publication, was invited to comment, and lodged no objection to this part.) The folly is made starkly clear in the photos that accompany this angry (at NRO) post from Dave Jeffers, who runs a blog called “Salt and Light.” To summarize: What Obama has made available is a Hawaiian “certification of live birth” (emphasis added), not a birth certificate (or what the state calls a “certificate of live birth”). The certification form provides a short, very general attestation of a few facts about the person’s birth: name and sex of the newborn; date and time of birth; city or town of birth, along with the name of the Hawaiian island and the county; the mother’s maiden name and race; the father’s name and race; and the date the certification was filed. This certification is not the same thing as the certificate, which is what I believe we were referring to in the editorial as “the state records that are used to generate birth certificates [sic] when they are requested.” CONTINUED http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...lYTVmZmU=&w=MA==

[Ryan Ruck]

Is This Really Smoking Gun Of Obama's Kenyan Birth?

August 02, 2009

California attorney Orly Taitz, who has filed a number of lawsuits demanding proof of Barack Obama's eligibility to serve as president, has released a copy of what purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth and has filed a new motion in U.S. District Court for its authentication.


This document purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth for Barack Obama, allegedly born in Mombasa, Kenya, in 1961

The document lists Obama's parents as Barack Hussein Obama and Stanley Ann Obama, formerly Stanley Ann Dunham, the birth date as Aug. 4, 1961, and the hospital of birth as Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya.


Document enlarged to show detail alleges Barack Obama was born at Coast General Hospital in Mombasa on Aug. 4, 1961

No doctor is listed. But the alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Oduya. It was allegedly issued as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.

WND was able to obtain other birth certificates from Kenya for purposes of comparison, and the form of the documents appear to be identical.


[i]An enlarged view of the bottom of the document[/IMG]

Last week, a counterfeit document purporting to be Obama's Kenyan birth certificate made the rounds of the Internet, but was quickly determined to be fraudulent. The new document released by Taitz bears none of the obvious traits of a hoax.

Taitz told WND that the document came from an anonymous source who doesn't want his name known because "he's afraid for his life."

Taitz's motion, filed yesterday in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, requests the purported evidence of Obama's birth – both the alleged birth certificate and foreign records not yet obtained – be preserved from destruction, asks for permission to legally request documents from Kenya and seeks a subpoena for deposition from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

"I filed the motion with the court asking for expedited discovery, which would allow me to start subpoenas and depositions even before Obama and the government responds," Taitz told WND. "I am asking the judge to give me the power to subpoena the documents from the Kenyan embassy and to require a deposition from Hillary Clinton so they will be forced to authenticate [the birth certificate].

"I'm forcing the issue, where Obama will have to respond," she said.

"Before, they said, 'You don't have anything backing your claims,'" Taitz explained. "Now I have something. In fact, I have posted on the Internet more than Obama has. My birth certificate actually has signatures."

Taitz's most celebrated case involved a military officer, Maj. Stefan Cook, whose order to deploy to Afghanistan was revoked when he challenged Obama's eligibility to hold office. That case has now been refiled in federal court in Florida, raising the specter of a class-action claim among members of the military that their orders aren't valid because of questions surrounding Obama's constitutional eligibility.

Taitz told WND she plans to file additional paperwork with the Florida court tomorrow, adding the alleged Kenyan birth certificate to Maj. Cook's case.

The suit seeks damages and a declaratory judgment. Named as defendants are Simtech, Cook's former civilian employer, and several officials, including Col. Louis B. Wingate and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.

WND previously reported a judge in Georgia dismissed Cook's case when the government suddenly revoked his orders to report to Fort. Benning for deployment to Afghanistan.

WND reported when the case originally was filed that Cook's concern was that without proof that there is a legitimate commander in chief, the entire U.S. Army becomes "merely a corps of chattel slaves under the illegitimate control of a private citizen."

Cook told WND: "As an officer in the armed forces of the United States, it is [my] duty to gain clarification on any order we may believe illegal. With that said, if President Obama is found not to be a 'natural-born citizen,' he is not eligible to be commander in chief."

The new complaint says it seeks Cook's reinstatement with his civilian employer, Simtech Inc., as well as protection from the Department of Defense and president "from further retaliation for plaintiff's challenge to the president's constitutional authority."

WND has reported on dozens of legal challenges to Obama's status as a "natural born citizen." The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

Some of the lawsuits question whether he was actually born in Hawaii, as he insists. If he was born out of the country, Obama's American mother, the suits contend, was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time.

Other challenges have focused on Obama's citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. The cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.

Complicating the situation is Obama's decision to spend sums estimated in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid releasing a state birth certificate that would put to rest all of the questions.

WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.

Developing ...

[American Patriot]

I think a lot of people are actually overlooking something

He wasn't BORN as Barrak H. Obama. He was born as Barry Sorreto or whatever. When he went through the name change, they "create a new birth certificate" for people, meaning it won't be the same kind of birth certificate as a person born with their name receives.

I guess this is pretty complicated and he doesn't want to give people any more ammo, huh?

Oh ... well, of COURSE he doesn't want them to HAVE AMMO because he's a damned SOCIALIST!

[Ryan Ruck]

Nope... Barack Obama was his original father and he had his name originally. Lolo Soetoro was the second, Indonesian step-father which he and his mother adopted the surname of. He then changed his name back to Obama at some point.

[Malsua]

Nope... Barack Obama was his original father and he had his name originally. Lolo Soetoro was the second, Indonesian step-father which he and his mother adopted the surname of. He then changed his name back to Obama at some point.

+1

[vector7]

The Kenyan Obama Birth Registration Is A Fake

Posted by TSRN on August 4th, 2009 | Categorized as Breaking News, Need To Know | Tagged as The Kenyan Obama Birth Registration Is A Fake

The recent birth registration from Orly Taitz and World Net Daily is a fake. I am as disappointed as the rest of you but I have learned since the beginning not to accept things only on face value.

When I first saw this document I thought it was a fake, but when I saw it on wnd.com I had hoped they investigated before releasing it to the public. I sent it to a digital forensic expert to examine and tell me what he thought. Tonight he answered me. Here are his findings:





Hanen,
You sent me two versions of what claims to be a certified copy of
registration of birth from Kenya. One has a black background, the other is on a brown fabric.

I am BCC’ing some associates with these findings.

The black document shows CLEAR EVIDENCE of DIGITAL MANIPULATION.

Besides removing the background, they tried to age the paper.

This is a forgery — and it isn’t even a good forgery.

The other document appears to be the same content as the black document.

It has been digitally modified (color enhanced, scaled, multiple resaves, and possible added text.)

The document itself shows artifacts that are INCONSISTENT with 1960 technology.

The typewriter letters are perfectly aligned, there is text outside the margins, there is a perfectly centered embossment that is perfectly aligned vertically. (”Perfect” never happens in real life.

This is a strong indication of a modern forgery.) The folds are not crisp nor aged, as would be expected with a 40-year-old folded document. This is a recent/modern forgery. And it, too, is not a good forgery.

You wrote: “I hope they are the real deal.”

They are not. They are forgeries. And they are really poor quality
forgeries by a rank amateur.

-Neal
–



Mystery Solved
Check this link :
http://www.bomford.net/worcestershir...hCertDoc65.jpg

Also check here :

http://upload.democraticunderground....c_template.pdf
http://upload.democraticunderground....late.jpg?CLICK

Anyone could have made that fake document

[Ryan Ruck]

From what I have been reading, the black background is an acknowledged Photoshop. Someone (from FR, IIRC) was dabbling with it in that program. I don't recall the reasons why but that is what I seem to remember.

As for the fabric background version, there is talk that there are now fakes of that floating around to muddy the waters - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2307402/posts

DU has began organizing a campaign to make Photoshopped certificates in a deliberate effort to discredit and create confusion - http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6205189

A screenshot in case it disappears:


They are running scared!

[Aplomb]

It is unclear why the officers ran a check on the president.

So what's the problem? It is unclear to me why there's a problem with running a check on anybody.

[Toad]

So what's the problem? It is unclear to me why there's a problem with running a check on anybody.

You need express permission to do so. I need a signed dated authorization to run inspection reports and criminal background checks on my companies clients, or I lose my job. What this cop did was unauthorized and he got the smackdown that if he had two brain cells, knew was coming. It violates your right to privacy.

[Aplomb]

Thanks, Toad. I don't know why I thought it was okay to find out about everybody w/o their permission. Does anybody know what that cop found out??? lol

[American Patriot]

Yes, it's important we know what he found out, so we can make sure not to make that mistake.

ROTF!

[Aplomb]

Geeze, there goes my motto, easier to get forgiveness than permission. Nice try, guy.

[American Patriot]

Just a coincidence? ('04-Barney Frank discounts Constitutional eligibility)
Natural Born Citizen ^ | 10-15-09 | Florida Bill comment Florida Bill Says:


October 15, 2009 at 7:04 PM

Just a coincidence?



July 2004: Obama makes keynote speech at the Democratic convention and is hailed as the future of the party.



October 2004: Congressman Barney Frank [D-MA] speaks as a witness to the Senate Judiciary Committee about his belief that the people of the United States should be able to elect a president of their choosing, even if that candidate is not a natural-born citizen.



In these comments, Frank all but names Obama and describes our current situation to the letter. Here is the audio clip of his remarks.



BARNEY FRANK - "I believe in the right of the voters to choose as they wish"



Obama’s opposition in the senate race is mysteriously swift boated at the last minute, (ironically by having his divorce records unsealed by “someone” in the Chicago Machine) the Republicans are forced to scramble for a candidate, finally settling for Keyes.



November 2004: Obama wins in a landslide essentially by clearing the playing field. At his first press conference Obama is asked about a Presidential run in 08 without having served a day in the Senate. Obama blows off the suggestion by claiming he lacks experience.



Obama - 2004 - and the experience question

[Beetle]

I take no responsibility for the validity of this. OF course, I never do, but I just want to make sure y'all know for sure on this one:

WITNESS COMES FORWARD, HISTORY OF INTERNET “RUMOUR” DOCUMENTED

Obama concedes he’s not a NBC, in Obama vs. Keyes 2004 Debate

October 15, 2009 by John Charlton

WITNESS COMES FORWARD, HISTORY OF INTERNET “RUMOUR” DOCUMENTED

by John Charlton

(October 15, 2009) — It was a moment little noticed and soon forgotten; the import of it was not at that time understood; but the evidence that it did in fact occur is compelling. It occurred during the Obama vs. Alan Keyes debate shoot, when the actual video tape was being recorded by ABC’s Chicago Affiliate in the Fall of 2004. It was never aired in Chicago, because the affiliate only aired the final cut; the raw footage was, as far as The Post & Email knows, aired only twice by C-Span in April and May of 2005.

The content of the short exchange has become legendary. In a quick jab Keyes asserted definitively that Obama was not a natural born citizen, and Obama, manifestly caught off guard, conceded the fact.

This article will first, document the evidence still on the net regarding those individuals who claim to have witnessed the C-Span rebroadcast, and then will publish an email from one such witness, who is willing to swear an affidavit to the effect. Other witnesses, who wish to contact The Post & Email can do so, so that their testimony on these facts can be published also.
The Internet “Rumor” which turned out to be the truth

On Nov.17.2008 @ 3:11 pm, at Attorney Leo Donofrio’s Blogtext blog, entitled “Natural Born Citizen”, it was first mentioned that:

Also, Somebody from Chicago just contacted her and stated that during the Senatorial campaign there was a debate between Barack Obama and Dr. Keyes. This debate was videotaped. During the debate Dr. Keyes has stated :”You are not even a Natural born citizen” to which Barack Obama replied: “That’s OK, I am not running for president, I am only running for Senate.”

This same commenter posted again at Chicagoans Against Obama blog at 7:40 PM the same day.
On Nov. 25, 2008, at 6:42 PM, it is mentioned again at Stormfront:

In search of — Debate during the Senatorial Campaign between Dr. Keyes and Obama in which was stated : “You are not even a Natural born citizen” to which Obama replied:” That’s o’k, I am not running for President, I am only running for Senate” – If anyone knows where this tape is located, please e-mail thepowerhour@thepowerhour.com THANKS.

A thread on this was opened at Free Republic on Dec. 2, 6:12 PM:

// I was looking for a video that I ran across recently from the 2004 Keyes/Obama Senate race debates where Keyes stated :”You are not even a Natural born citizen” to which Barack Obama replied: “That’s OK, I am not running for president, I am only running for Senate.”

News of this exchange has since spread across the internet and been reported throughout the last year.
A Witness Steps Forward

Here is where the “rumor” is dispelled, and where the facts become real.
First the facts surrounding the case. This interested citizen began reading and researching about Obama the day after Obama’s 2008 Election win. He soon began reading the blog of Attorney Leo Donofrio, participating at the web-form which is now known as RestoreTheConstitutionalRepublic.org, and listening in to Plains Radio, which was an internet radio program out of Texas.

This citizen read reports of others who had seen this exchange. And then remembered that he himself had seen it. This witness has now contacted The Post & Email and given his testimony, which is as follows:

First, let me say that I was not able to vote in the 2004 presidential elections, because I was overseas on work. So when I returned stateside in March of 2005, I wanted to inform myself as to what had been happening.

In mid April, finding myself with a lot of spare time, I started watching C-Span on cable tv, from my home in the mornings. When they announced that they were going to rebroadcast the Alan Keyes vs. Barack Obama debates, unedited, I was delighted, because I am an Alan Keyes fan.

In the introduction to the rebroadcast of the debates, the C-Span host noted that C-Span had decided to air them because of the growing interest in Washington, D.C., in Barack Obama. He also pointed out that C-Span was not airing the version seen in Chicago the previous fall, and which Keyes was to distribute in diverse media on his website; that C-Span had requested from the TV station in Chicago the unedited tapes of the debate, and that only on C-Span would they be aired.

I watched the entire first and second debates. I distinctly remember that I had never heard of Obama; my interest was in seeing what Keyes said about the pro-life issue and school vouchers.

At one point in the second debate, Keyes, accused Obama saying, “You are not even a natural born citizen!”

To which Obama immediately replied, “So what? I am running for Illinois Senator, not the presidency.”

At the end of the airing of the second debate, the C-Span host noted, as he read from a single sheet of paper, placed before him, that the Obama Campaign had contacted them and requested them to point out to their viewers that Obama’s response here should not be understood as a denial that he is a natural born citizen, only that Keyes’ accusation had nothing to do with the qualifications of office of a U.S. Senator.
I distinctly remember my dismay at Obama’s response, at that time, concerned why he called the office he was running for “Illinois” senator, but did not call the U.S. Presidency with any distinctive adjective.
I subsequently spoke with Alan Keyes, one evening, by phone, when he appeared on Plains Radio:, in January, I think. I asked him about this exchange; he said he did not remember it; but he did not deny it took place.

The Post & Email notes, that Obama’s response is more telling than it first appears; because you’d expect him to respond, affirming that he is a “natural born citizen”, or at least in saying, “I am running for U.S. Senator from Illinois, not the U.S. Presidency”. This seems to indicate that Obama was emotionally recoiling from this direct question; a question any natural born citizen ought never to have feared. It certainly seems that Obama knows he is not a natural born citizen, which qualification requires that one be “born in the country of parents who are citizens” of the same (de Vattel, The Law of Nations).

The witness also informs The Post & Email that he is willing to sign and swear to an affidavit regarding what he has communicated above.

http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2...s-2004-debate/

[Malsua]

I've given up hope that the Usurper in Chief will be deposed but one can only hope that his taint on the office lingers such that no one like him will ever ascend to the presidency again.

He probably was born in Kenya and even if he was born in Hawaii, he isn't a natural born citizen. He's a citizen, yes, not a NBC.

[American Patriot]

I've given up hope that the Usurper in Chief will be deposed but one can only hope that his taint on the office lingers such that no one like him will ever ascend to the presidency again.

He probably was born in Kenya and even if he was born in Hawaii, he isn't a natural born citizen. He's a citizen, yes, not a NBC.

The definition of "Natural Born Citizen", Mal is precisely what I argue with.

What is it and how is it defined?

If he were actually born, physically in Hawaii (in... what? 1961?)

On August 21, 1959, Hawaii was admitted to the union as our 50th state.

That means, IF he were born there, he's a "natural born citizen".

I am a "Native America"... I have some indian blood for what it's worth - but more IMPORTANTLY my FAMILY has been here since BEFORE the United States existed as the USA. We were not quite even yet colonies when my family came here. North America was divided among the French, Spanish, English and a few others - including the aboriginal people of this land. I get pretty pissed and even offended when some asshole on the Left suggests I'm a "White European".

I'm NO such thing. I am an AMERICAN. I was born here and I was born from the parents of people who had parents of parents that lived here. My family name goes back to both Ireland and Scotland - but the Donaldsons have lived here since the early 1700s or late 1690s.

Now... Obama has a father who was not a Citizen of the US. And his Mother was originally a US citizen who renounced her citizenship. Obama was born on US soil (territory, state, doesn't matter.... it was US soil).

By our rules that makes him a citizen.

Now, if someone has real evidence he was physically born in Kenya... then you've got something

[Malsua]

What is it and how is it defined?

If he were actually born, physically in Hawaii (in... what? 1961?)

On August 21, 1959, Hawaii was admitted to the union as our 50th state.

That means, IF he were born there, he's a "natural born citizen".

And that's where you're wrong. The NBC requirement was very specific for a specific reason. At the time it was written they used "Vattel's Law of Nations" as a guide to NBC.

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.

One of 0's parents was not a citizen. He is not a natural born citizen. Native born, perhaps, citizen, sure. Natural born...nope.

[American Patriot]

All well and good, but wrong.

You see... that means that people who are born in this country, let's say children of Mexican citizens who cross the border illegally and have their children on the soil of this country are considered "natural born citizens".

To use the definitions you're using, and I don't care who wrote them or when is irrelevant.

Why?

Because this would have PRECLUDED George Washington and the next 3-4 sitting Presidents of the country from being President.

If you read the Constitution it was written in such a way to get AROUND that very thing.

By legal PRECEDENCE Obama, being born IN HAWAII (if indeed he was) is a Natural Born Citizen and so are any people's of that "territory".

Hawaii was recognized as country, and later because a territory. People born in Puerto Rico are as much citizens of the US as you or I are, based on the laws of TODAY.

And... therein lies the issue. Obama has lived in the US for all his life (except a short time abroad according to what I've read) making him ipso facto an American.

So - while you and I can argue this ad infintium - we are not the deciding factor nor does any of our logic hold weight on the subject.

While I AGREE with you in principle that if he were born in Kenya (or even the Philippines) he is NOT eligible for the Presidency - there is yet to be shown PROOF of where he was born (by EITHER side - which is where *I* have the issue).

Once Obama himself produces a real document that isn't a pencil-whipped record from the 1960s - to show beyond a doubt he was born on the Island of Hawaii... I will not believe him eligible EITHER.

So... we agree on that part. The part I disagree is your explanation (and that of others) about what constitutes being a citizen.

[Toad]

Wikipedia has some interesting reading on the debate of what exactly compromises "natural born".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural..._United_States

It has definately not been agreed upon for quite some time.