Current Events and Biblical Prophecy III

[vector7]

Indeed, everything needs to be studied and shelved for later. Some of it may come to pass, some may not, or in the way or timing in which we thought it would.

[American Patriot]

I think so too. I am just saying that you can take a lot of different answers from various visions.

I don't see "visions" as anything more than dreams. I don't perceive dreams as anything more than brain-re-winds of a sort where you re-learn things through the night you covered in the day time.

For someone to have some kind of apocalyptic, recurring dreams that they put in a context of "God sent" bothers me. Maybe, of course God does send dreams. Maybe none of us listen well.

I've personally had recurring, apocalyptic dreams over the past few years. I chalk it up to my studies and thinking about this stuff day in and day out. I mean, seriously, I run through my mind the "What - Ifs" of every situation I see and can imagine all the time. For me it is a way to exercise my mind and think through what I might do to avoid a bad circumstance (or get out of one I've inadvertently stepped). Thus, the dreams of being in a disaster movie setting trying to save people is a constant thing over the past few years for me.

Putting it into the context of a "God sent vision" though... naw.

[MinutemanCO]

Not to be a contrarian, but to add potential insight to this discussion...

Daniel the Old Testament prophet wrote in depth about his experiences as a servant of the Lord in bondage to the Babylonian and subsequent Medo-Persian empires following God's judgment upon the people of Israel. The text was written in the Sixth Century BC.

Without being too pedantic regarding the prophetic text, Daniel is given significant prophecy by the angel Gabriel as to the exact timing of the arrival of the Messiah in Jerusalem.

“Seventy ‘sevens’^[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish^[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.^[e]25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,^[f] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. ²⁶ After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing..."

The sevens referred to are groups of seven year periods.

At this point, add the 7 "sevens" and the 62 "sevens" for a total of 69 "sevens". And we are interpreting the 69 "sevens" to mean 69 periods of seven years, for a total of 483 years. So, there would be a period of 483 years from the time that a decree is given to rebuild Jerusalem to the time that a Messiah is to appear. That would correspond exactly to the time that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey in the year 33 AD. The reason the donkey is important is that in Zechariah 9:9, the prophet Zechariah (another Old Testament prophet from fifth and sixth centuries BC) speaks of a King riding a donkey and presenting himself as the King to Jerusalem.

So, in conclusion, Bible prophecy can be and is extremely exact. There are many more examples, but would require much exposition.

[American Patriot]

And as you say, not to be a contrarian, but honestly, all these folks who play in numerology do the same thing; they say "numbers this and numbers that mean" stuff. And the numbers can mean anything.

I have, for I don't know HOW many years been spotting the numbers "911".

On the clocks, on airline flights, on license plates, just random things. I see it sometimes pop up in my dreams (sleeping dreams).

Is it a vision?

I flew to Florida on 9-11. At 9:11AM I was on a plane and happened to glance at my watch and braced myself for who knows what.

As I walked out of the hotel that night to walk down the street to eat, the digital clock over the counter said "9:11".

I think it's creepy weird, but I can't assign ANY meaning to that.

---

For several years I've been having the dreams I mentioned before, trying to rescue people (random people, occasionally I nkow them, sometimes I don't) from some disaster. Once it was flowing molten lava, another a burning building, another clambering over a huge log over a river with a dozen followers.

Doesn't matter where it is, the scenarios are different, but the outcome is the same, I am leading a group of people somewhere, away from something that has caused a disaster, things are always burning, falling and blowing up around us. I never get to the end of the dreams so never know the ending.

Should I assign a meaning to it?

Perhaps I'm being told by God to wake up and prepare. Maybe it will happen on 9:11?

Or perhaps I'm overly sensitive to the numbers 9 and 11 and think and talk too much about survival stuff?

Who knows. Who am I to try to outguess what happens next?

[American Patriot]

At this point, add the 7 "sevens" and the 62 "sevens" for a total of 69 "sevens". And we are interpreting the 69 "sevens" to mean 69 periods of seven years, for a total of 483 years. So, there would be a period of 483 years from the time that a decree is given to rebuild Jerusalem to the time that a Messiah is to appear. That would correspond exactly to the time that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey in the year 33 AD. The reason the donkey is important is that in Zechariah 9:9, the prophet Zechariah (another Old Testament prophet from fifth and sixth centuries BC) speaks of a King riding a donkey and presenting himself as the King to Jerusalem.

By the way, what was the exact date that happened?

By which calendar? The current calendar we use is Gregorian and it was put into use in 1582.

The calendar before that was called the Julian calendar. It didn't track the earth around the sun properly so the seasons were always skewed.

The AD/BC descriptive that we found on our dates (before anti-religious people got into the act) was created in 535 (AD) by some guy name Dionysius in an attempt to date the exact date of Easter.

Whether he was right or wrong - I dunno. Modern calendars are more for the method of keeping time with the Earth orbiting the sun ever 365.25 days (an inexact figure to be precise here, it is 365.250363004). Whether any one on Earth today knows for sure what day Jesus was born, or died is I'm sure based solely upon information gleaned from the Bible by quite imperfect humans. And whether their writing was the word of God is debatable in every sense of the word because only THEY know this for sure.

WE take it on FAITH.

I'll personally look at a clock to know what time it is, and where I am on Earth rather than take a thousands-years-old human-written prophecy to tell me the world is going to end (or whatever). Revelations does little more than scare people, in my opinion.

I'll point out one other thing.... This is just silly, but isn't it possible Jesus himself read those prophecies about riding a Donkey and made it a point to become famous? (I'm not saying that is the case, but anyone who is literate and reads can read something from the past and bring that prophecy to bear on believers. This crap happens all the time, look at cults that do it!) Not saying Jesus wasn't real, just saying there are plenty of other possibilities beside what the facts are.

[MinutemanCO]

That's the pedantic analysis I wasn't going to get into.

"The decree was given in 444 B.C., based on the following:
1. 'In the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes' (Nehemiah 2:1).
2. Artaxerxes' accession was in 465 B.C.
3. There is no day-of-month specified, so according to the Jewish custom the date is understood as the first day of the month, which would be Nisan 1, 444 BC.
4. March 5, 444 B.C. is our corresponding calendar date."

[MinutemanCO]

The prophecy of Zechariah 9 has been well accepted to have been written in the period of 480 BC.

[MinutemanCO]

As I am no scholar, I rely on accepted orthodox teachings.

And if I must,

The mathematics of calculating Daniel 9:24-26 and the issue of the 360-day "prophetic" calendar
At this point, we're adding the 7 "sevens" and the 62 "sevens" for a total of 69 "sevens". And we are interpreting the 69 "sevens" to mean 69 periods of seven years, for a total of 483 years. So, we are saying that there would be a period of 483 years from the time that a decree is given to rebuild Jerusalem to the time that a Messiah is to appear.

Some Christian scholars say that the period of 483 years should not be thought of in terms of our modern solar calendar which is based on a 365.25 days to a year. Instead, we are to use a "prophetic" calendar which has 360 days to a year. Many ancient calendars, including the Jewish calendar, were based on a lunar year of 12 months, with each month lasting 30 days each. Many ancient peoples, including the ancient Jews, did realize that there actually were more than 360 days to a year and so they would tack on an extra five days at some point during the year.

Another reason some scholars say that we should apply a 360-day calendar to Daniel's prophecy is because of various Bible references that allude to a fixed 30-day month view of time. For example, in Genesis 7:24, it says that the flood lasted 150 days. And, in Genesis 7:11, it says the flood began in the 17th day of the second month. And in Genesis 8:4, it says that the flood subsided on the 17th day of the seventh month, when the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. So, these passages present us a 5-month period of time that is described as being 150 days in length. And that of course is five 30-day months.

There are other Bible passages that indicate that time is being measured in fixed 30-day month periods. Revelation 12:6 mentions a 1,260 day period which, in my view, clearly relates to the three-and-a-half-year period mentioned in Revelation 12:13-14 and in Daniel 9:27. For three-and-a-half years to equal 1,260 days, one would have to measure years in 360-day increments. That of course doesn't mean that the earth's orbit of the sun is going to speed up or change, it just simply means that the prophetic year is a measure of time in which a "year" has 360 days, nothing more, nothing less. It's no different than weighing a bag of groceries using the metric system of kilograms and then using the old English system of pounds and ounces. It is not that one system causes the groceries to weigh more or less, but rather the two systems describe the weight in different units. So too does the prophetic year in comparison to our solar calendar - it uses a different system to measure time.
So, we take the 483 years that we had calculated earlier and we multiply the 483 by 360. In other words, we are viewing the 483 year period described in Daniel 9:25 as "prophetic years" of 360 days each. And, 483 times 360 equals 173,880. And that gives us a total of 173,880 days.

Now, we want to apply these 173,880 days to our calendar, which has 365.25 days to a year. Why? So that we can use our calendar in trying to figure out the year that this part of Daniel's prophecy was to begin its fulfillment and when this part of Daniel's prophecy was to be completed. So, we divide the 173,880 days into years of 365.25 days. And, that equals 476 (solar) years. Now, we need to figure out when this 476 year period was supposed to begin.

[MinutemanCO]

I'll point out one other thing.... This is just silly, but isn't it possible Jesus himself read those prophecies about riding a Donkey and made it a point to become famous? (I'm not saying that is the case, but anyone who is literate and reads can read something from the past and bring that prophecy to bear on believers. This crap happens all the time, look at cults that do it!) Not saying Jesus wasn't real, just saying there are plenty of other possibilities beside what the facts are.

Yes, you are correct in this instance that Jesus as a learned individual with intent could have orchestrated this very prophecy. However, Christ as a single person fulfilled in total 456 prophecies as outlined in biblical texts. From my information gathering, it has been stated that the probability of a single person fulfilling only 48 prophecies amounts to the number 1:10 to the 157th power. And that is just the calculation of 48 prophecies. Jesus the historical person fulfilled all 456.

[American Patriot]

Well, I wasn't trying to get into any sort of "discussion", pedantic or otherwise.

Those things I stated are opinion. I'm no scholar on the Bible, prophecy or any thing like visions. I'm just saying what I see.

I guess my point is "accepted" means you have to believe they are correct.

For the record I "accept" certain scientific statements as factual because you can base them on mathematics and the like. However, I question things like the asteroid belt being there and how it got there, that Mars was lifeless, and in fact think that Mars had life and is NOW lifeless because the Asteroid Belt "came to be" (likely by another planet hitting what was there and what was once the home planet of Mars while Mars was a moon).

Those things are questionable in my mind.

Those are scientific things, in our faces, exist in front of us, aren't some "vision" or "written about in a Book" thousands of years ago.


Religion is taken on faith.

Science is taken on proofs (sometimes erroneous proofs).

And therefore BOTH can be in error.

Now, back to "pendantic".... there is a requirement for formal analysis of everything that is to be believed. I'm sorry, but the issue I have with religion is twofold.

1) Religions want to control the people (like governments wish to control them).

2) Religions expect you to take their word for it. (Whatever IT is) and have been known to be WRONG, LIE, CHEAT and STEAL to get their way. They have been known to go to war, cause wars, kill and torture people.


Today, I can think of only ONE religion that does the worst (Islam) and Christianity appears to be, as we say in politics, the lesser of two evils. And in truth, I'll stand next to you and protect you before I would a Muslim.

But that doesn't mean I have to follow the tenants or go to the local Catholic Church and tithe 10% of worldly wealth (on a weekly basis) to them. It doesn't mean I can't make fun of Allah. It does not mean I have to sit and pray if I don't want to, and it doesn't mean the government or anyone else can PREVENT me from doing so when and wheresoever I chose.

My entire point was and remains "Visions are not generally provable. Those that are likely were coincidences."

What about my point about my own "visions". What do they mean? Who can say? How can 9-11 and survival dreams be related? Are they?

You see what I mean?

[MinutemanCO]

Now, back to "pendantic".... there is a requirement for formal analysis of everything that is to be believed. I'm sorry, but the issue I have with religion is twofold.

1) Religions want to control the people (like governments wish to control them).

2) Religions expect you to take their word for it. (Whatever IT is) and have been known to be WRONG, LIE, CHEAT and STEAL to get their way. They have been known to go to war, cause wars, kill and torture people.


Today, I can think of only ONE religion that does the worst (Islam) and Christianity appears to be, as we say in politics, the lesser of two evils. And in truth, I'll stand next to you and protect you before I would a Muslim.

But that doesn't mean I have to follow the tenants or go to the local Catholic Church and tithe 10% of worldly wealth (on a weekly basis) to them. It doesn't mean I can't make fun of Allah. It does not mean I have to sit and pray if I don't want to, and it doesn't mean the government or anyone else can PREVENT me from doing so when and wheresoever I chose.

My entire point was and remains "Visions are not generally provable. Those that are likely were coincidences."

What about my point about my own "visions". What do they mean? Who can say? How can 9-11 and survival dreams be related? Are they?

You see what I mean?

I completely agree with you regarding your statements pertaining to religions. I've got to clarify something, though, that may seem like splitting hairs, but in truth is extremely important. Religion in the form that most people recognize and that you AP highlight is a contrivance of man himself. Call it man's way of reaching toward God, be it flawed and abhorrent as it is. This can be represented by the acts of Catholics, Muslims, the Spanish Inquisition, the Church of England, the Westboro Baptist Church, ad infinitum. History, whether contemporary or reaching back millennia, records multitudes of heinous acts perpetrated by men in the name of God. They are unfortunate and on occasion the undoing of authentic worship.

That said, I and many Bible believing Christians abhor organized religion. I ascribe to what was established between my creator, my savior and me - a relationship, Father to son. I believe in the God inspired works as documented in the Bible and not the works of man.

As to your visions? I would never judge them one way or another. I have a tendency to listen, apply objective analysis and place such things onto the analytical metric of my biblical worldview. I would never disbelieve such a purported account in a wholesale manner without significant reason in which to do so. Agreed, however, that visions can be extremely difficult to prove. They are without a doubt esoteric occurrences.

[American Patriot]

Ok. We're on the same page. I can't stand "organized" anything these days be it government, religion, this attitude and idea that everyone needs a "certification" in this or that, Home Owners Associations, the local, regional and federal "police state" - and even to an extent most "forums" (this one excluded).

Everywhere you go, everything you do, someone is telling you how you should do "it".

Organized religion is one aspect of my life I left behind me when I was old enough to recognize that there were people in "high places" (men) who were intent on directing the lives of others using the Word of God as their whips.

Having studied the Crusades in particular and certain religions in general, and the rise and fall of various empires, nations and civilizations it all comes to one thing. Men trying to control other men. Period, plain and simple.

There is a reason I am purchasing a boat. No, I won't escape the tax man, civilization, religion or government. Won't escape corruption. Won't escape having to make and spend money....

But what I WILL gain is the ability to control where I go, when I go, HOW I go and with whom I have to have contact.

The freedom of men to wander the world is becoming more and more restricted and I've a short time left on this world and I intend to make the best of it for myself and the wife - and she, more than most, deserves every, single minute I can grab for her without the stress and bullshit of people shoving their way of thinking down her throat (and mine).

You aren't splitting hairs at all, you were clarifying your position - and in so doing clarified things I was trying to say!

[samizdat]

Hi, Minute, Vector & Rick. My inet's been down, but I grabbed a line from the ranch shop. I recently saw Captain America(1-drippy), the 2nd one, "avengers" wasting D.C. cops, hydras big drone, insight?

Well I dunno who Bucky Rodgers is. Yet the 70 elders in Babylonian captivity did a damn good job of capturing oral Jewish tradition, many writings and reflecting Light by way of God's Word, especially reflecting the accounts of Adam & Eve, Cain & Abel to reflect the beginnings of TRUE Historical Biblical prophecy...David era @500 bc. Solomon, son of adultery. David....fighting w/ previous king, sought by other son to be killed, & under curse(punishment) for his sin w/ Bathsheba & Urriah: whole nation punished.

It is not possible to comprehend God, especially Jesus. I mean what can you say about a guy (friend) , Jesus, that is Who stands down his best friend Peter...naw that's enough, I' ll put Malchus ear back on, I can stop this w/ angels, but I'm gunna let them torture me unmercifully for the next 18 hours, including a cruel 6 hour crucifixion ifo my mother? Plus Jesus is one W/ the triune God, the Father who let Jacob(Israel)´s sons cut the balls off a heap of heathen's who just might have had something to do w/ possibly raping Dinah, 13th child of Jacob & Rebeccah. Turn the other cheek & come follow me? Or do the 14 works of corporal & spiritual mercy? love one another.

[MinutemanCO]

Hey Samizdat. Long time no write.

God is Love, yes?

He is also at times so far beyond us we flounder in utter confusion trying to comprehend His works, His mind, His mercies.

Yet He knows each of His children.

[American Patriot]

Have you ever looked through a telescope to see a distant Galaxy?

When you begin to grasp the distance of that galaxy and the fact it is made of of billions of stars by itself, and that our Galaxy (Milky Way) is just as big and vast by itself you can't HELP but wonder how it all got it - and I don't believe it was by accident.

[MinutemanCO]

Bingo!

[American Patriot]

I knew it was a bingo. haha

I've spent YEARS looking through telescopes, microscopes and various other devices to reveal the mysteries of the universe.

So - while you might see me 'berating' certain things a certain way, don't be confused where I truly stand on this subject.

[MinutemanCO]

Sorry, AP. Maybe "Bingo" was a little insensitive.

I think I understand now where you stand.

[American Patriot]

No, it wasn't insensitive at all! LOL!

[vector7]

Visions of the Future of America

Doug Metzger has visions from the Lord of the Future destruction of America by 12 Nuclear explosions stretched across the United States. His ministry began with the vision of a red star missile headed for America which he believes is North Korea.

The Vision is Clear America will come to a financial collapse of its economy and the dollar will become worthless. This will lead to a time of great tribulation for the church and people will beg for food for the lack of money.

The Government is in full awareness of these issues and will betray the people as we enter into a 3rd world war. America will be left in ruins after a nuclear holocaust of 12 major city's.

Each Vision Contains important information for the Church in America.

• America, the Fallen Tree

• 10 to 1 Inflation Dollar Became Worthless

• Vision of How the Church was Formed in America

• Visions of the End of America

• Vision of Nuclear Missile

• Twelve Cities Destroyed

• A Million Voices Screaming

• Vision of Begging Woman

• The Great Betrayal

• They Ran to Jesus

• Prayer Is Protection

• The Greatest Horror & Revival

Shane Warren Economic Collapse of America