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Thread: Prospective New/Recent Tartan Buyers Note

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    Default Prospective New/Recent Tartan Buyers Note

    First off this is a preface for a thread which appeared on another site, Sailnet.Com started by one of the Moderators there.

    The thread was started in about August 2007 in regards to the boat manufacturer "Tartan".

    Eventually, a "scandal" arose, and apparently the owner of the company that makes these boats requested Sailnet.Com remove the thread completely.

    Now... it is MY personal belief that ethics of companies are PARAMOUNT to their continued existence and when one company asks another company to remove something, without really even a legal letter of intent, or cease-and-desist due to, say copyright violations and the parties do this in an effort to HIDE the information it becomes a matter of ETHICS.

    Secondarily to this (of primary concern to me would be safety, but this isn't necessarily the case here) is Safety - because the issues in the forum appear to address such things, as well as warranty issues among other things I believe this should be brought to the attention of the public.

    As a boater - I can say that SAFETY is a primary concern of mine and purchasing a boat, new, implies that you will be getting a good piece of equipment, complete, won't sink on it's own (without nature's or man's intervention) and warranty issues would be cared for quickly and efficiently.

    This appears to NOT be the case here, given the material presented.

    IF you're interested in reading this, I will be upload two full files.

    I'll host these until hell freezes over - and "requests" from a "Company President" will certainly fall on deaf ears.

    Why? Because I believe in presenting the evidence in a case and letting the jury decide.

    The Jury is the Boat Buying Public..... You be the judge.

    Last edited by American Patriot; December 11th, 2008 at 00:43.
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    Default Re: Prospective New/Recent Tartan Buyers Note

    To Those Reading This Thread. This thread is a shortened version of a Sailnet.com thread that was placed off line on the sailnet forum. Fortunately nothing is ever gone on the Internet. This version of the thread includes only those posts which bring up NEW information or opinions in an effort to reduce the time it takes to understand the issues at hand. The FULL version of the thread is also available for those who wish to review the complete record.


    All actual names and personal data as well as graphics have been removed but ALL individual posts are otherwise complete. This is being provided in the interest of allowing sailors to evaluate the facts and opinions on both sides of the discussion and reach their own decisions while continuing to follow additional news on the topic elsewhere.


    Actual posts are in purple with post # and screen name and date appearing above each post.

    The long one is the full thread and the short one is with all the chatter that is either repetitive or not relevant culled out.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by American Patriot; December 10th, 2008 at 23:54. Reason: Adding files
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    Default Re: Prospective New/Recent Tartan Buyers Note

    Monday, November 26, 2007

    http://mako3700.blogspot.com/2007/11...re-action.html

    Action: Customers Sue Novis. Re-Action: Novis Sues Customers

    Well, I can hear a few of the Tartan Yahoo! Group crowd cheering at this news and wishing me good riddance and bon voyage from the internet after Bill Ross of Novis Marine has decided to sue yet another customer.

    Earlier this evening I picked up papers that seek to punish me for telling the truth, asking tough & legitimate questions and expressing opinions based on hard data from other owners and dealers on things from stainless steel corrosion, sail drives corroding out, cracking and split epoxy hulls.

    Yes, that is right. Today I received a summons from an OH court that Novis Marine is attempting to use to prevent me from sharing all that I know and have discovered since May 2007 on the Tartan and C&C epoxy boats. As you know from this blog, I am suing Novis Marine and Yanmar in Harris County, Texas. I guess today's retaliatory and baseless lawsuit on the part Novis Marine is one way to prevent my discoveries making their way to fellow owners and for the intelligent buyer to make up their own minds. The library of data I found outside of the ongoing formal legal discovery process is significant - especially for any Tartan with a Yanmar sail drive built between 2004 to mid-2006.

    You will note that John Vito has also been very quiet in recent weeks on the Yahoo! board that the Novis monitors. Looking at the Lake Co. OH court records John to has been silenced by the same legal tactics (aka lawsuit) as I have been. Two clients with good data suing Novis over defective product and all we have is prevention of Free Speech here in America. The only difference would appear to be that Bill Ross (an attorney) and Novis' attorney, Dan Gourash, waited until 11/15/07 to process the papers on me and ironically it was put in to action just 1 business day after Bill Ross sent his expert, Andy Drumm, as the defendant's [Novis] examiner alongside Yanmar on my boat on 11/9/07.

    Anyway, I am sure the many happy four-digit owners cannot fathom how your manufacturer can launch such action against a fellow owner, but rest assured I will not wither when Free Speech as protected under the First Amendment of the US Constitution is under attack. Now just imagine owning one of these ~$300,000 boats and discovering what I did about the build quality and when I was not shy about raising legitimate safety centered questions and in back channel you are called a 'blog extortionist' and have been 'defamed'.

    As John Vito said on Yahoo! of his experience with Novis Marine, I would not wish this ownership and warranty/customer service experience with Novis Marine on my worst enemy.

    I will leave you now with a quote from one of my favorite US Presidents and from which I think we can draw a great parallel (below).

    "We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." ~John F. Kennedy

    "We are not afraid to entrust the American yacht buyer with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, real customer experiences and competitive values. For a modern boat manufacturer that is afraid to let its market judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a boat manufacturer that is afraid of its current and potential client base." ~ GTS

    Regards to all my readers for now and until I have my day in the courts of TX and now maybe in OH if that applies!

    About me: An owner of a new 2005 Tartan 3700 that has had just ~20 engine hours on the2nd Yanmar sail drive since 1/26/06 and has been largely unavailable to me and my family because of the standard of manufacturing. Two weekends away on a broken boat with no LPG at $149,000 and counting per weekend!

    Posted by One David against Goliaths!



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    "We are not afraid to entrust the American yacht buyer with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, real customer experiences and competitive values. For a modern boat manufacturer that is afraid to let its market judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a boat manufacturer that is afraid of its current and potential client base." ~ GTS
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    Default Re: Prospective New/Recent Tartan Buyers Note

    Above you will find another locked thread over this subject.

    I double dog dare someone to try to make me lock this one!



    Go ahead, punk, make my day
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    Default Re: Prospective New/Recent Tartan Buyers Note

    Libertatem Prius!


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