Study says geological changes could shift the axis of the Earth

[vector7]

Ice shelf collapse could shift axis of Earth, study says

TOP STORY Ice shelf collapse could shift axis of Earth, study says.

A new study from Toronto researchers suggests that the collapse of a large portion of the Antarctic ice sheet would shift the very axis of the Earth.

05/02/2009 1:38:35 PM


This digital animation uses GIS data to map what various sea-level rise scenarios might look like. (Center for Remote Sensing of Ice Sheets)

Two figures illustrating processes that contribute to the geometry of sea-level change following the potential collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. (University of Toronto)

CTV.ca News Staff

Geophysicists at the University of Toronto explored the effects on North America and the globe, if sea levels were to rise due to the collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet.

One of the most jarring predictions contained in the report, to be published in the Feb. 6 issue of the journal Science, is that the sea-change could shift the Earth's rotation.

"The melting of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet will actually cause the Earth´s rotation axis to shift rather dramatically -- approximately 500 metres from its present position if the entire ice sheet melts," states a release from U of T's physics department.

There is a widespread belief among scientists that the ice sheet is especially vulnerable to rising global temperatures, and may be prone to collapse, which could trigger a rise in sea levels.

Some analysts have predicted sea levels will rise by five metres -- a value arrived at by taking the total volume of the ice sheet, converting it to water and spreading it evenly across the globe's oceans.

But the new report suggests that is too simplistic an approach, and some areas -- North America and nations in the southern Indian Ocean in particular -- would see much higher sea-level rises than other areas.

"We´ve been able to calculate that not only will the rise in sea levels at most coastal sites be significantly higher than previously expected, but that the sea-level change will be highly variable around the globe," said physics graduate student Natalya Gomez.

The research suggests the melting of the sheet would change the balance of the globe -- similar to tsunamis that move massive amounts of water from one area to another.

Water would migrate from the southern Atlantic and Pacific Oceans northward toward North America and into the southern Indian Ocean.

"The net effect of all of these processes is that if the West Antarctic Ice Sheet collapses, the rise in sea levels around many coastal regions will be as much as 25 per cent more than expected, for a total of between six and seven metres if the wholeice sheet melts," said geophysicist Jerry Mitrovica.

"That´s a lot of additional water, particularly around such highly populated areas as Washington, D.C., New York City, and the California coastline."

The study pointed out three factors that are likely to have an effect on the dispersement of water from the melting shelf.

It suggests that as an ice sheet collapses, water actually moves away from it because the sheet's gravitational pull lessens. The result is that the sea level in the area of the shelf actually drops, while other areas see dramatic increases.

Secondly, the research suggests a massive depression in the bedrock that is currently underneath the ice shelf, will fill with water if the sheet collapses. But as the sheet melts and its weight disperses, the depression will rebound, thereby pushing water into other areas.

Thirdly, the shift in the Earth's rotation will cause water north, towards North America and the Southern Indian Ocean.

The research is to be published in a paper titled "The Sea Level Fingerprint of West Antarctic Collapse."

[Malsua]

Oooh noooz...we're all gonna die

[New Guy]

as long as wisconsin ends up where florida is currently, i'll live with it

[samizdat]

ice sheet...

I'z shheeting- naw- it's just global warming- its de cows faults-
dung dern cows gonna melt us off to pasture.

[Toad]

My purpose in life is to eat as many ribeye steaks as I can to keep the cow population under control for the good of the earth and the ice shelf.

[American Patriot]

Ummm.....

An ice sheet falling off will NOT throw the earth out of kilter, that's the biggest load of bullshit I've seen come out of pseudoscience in years.

I'll prove it to you.


Fill a glass of water, not quite to the top. Not add some ice cubes... until the water just reaches the top of the glass. Now wait.... wait for the ice to melt completely.

Tell me if you suddenly have spill over of the water over the edge. I'm betting you money it doesn't.

(Remember to take into account that if you have water beads along the outside from condensation you can cause some water to leak out that way by surface tension, try to keep the glass dry).

The point is that the amount of displacement of the ice is the same as the water that is in the ice.

This article goes on to suggest: "There is a widespread belief among scientists that the ice sheet is especially vulnerable to rising global temperatures, and may be prone to collapse, which could trigger a rise in sea levels."

IF they are basing the idea that the ice shelf will melt on this, well, that right there is a wrong assumption to begin with. You don't base a theory on known crap, which is what they are doing.

Global warming is a load of crap. To base your theory off a false premise is bad science to begin with.

The fact that the water might melt out of the ice and add "25 feet" is just as much nonsense - but let's assume even that is right for a minute.

The WATER levels in the Northern hemisphere aren't going to be affected to a great extent ANYWAY. Assuming water will migrate from the poles, shows that given centrifugal motion, it will migrate to the EQUATOR!

If you take a bucket, fill it with water and tie a rope to the bail, then start the bucket swinging in a circle the water will flow to the bottom of the bucket and remain there against gravity (as the bucket goes up over your head) and it will remain there.

The Earth is certainly spinning at a high rate of speed 1038 mph at the equator, and the atmosphere is thicker there.

At mid-latitudes, the speed of the Earth's rotation decreases to 700 to 900 miles per hour.

Basically, this means on our little sphere the water will tend to "puddle" along the equator.

This ain't rocket surgery, it's simple physics and HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ought to KNOW better than that.

The Earth could be SLOWED slightly by added water, but it will be an INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT!

An ice skater can demonstrate this. As she begins to spin in spot, with her arms out, she is slow. As she pulls in her arms (and thus the amount of mass around the axis) she speeds up. If she raises her arms above her, she spins at her fastest speed.

If she wanted to slow, simply putting her arms back down and then extending them will cause her to slow down considerably.

Water will NOT migrate TO the NORTH from the SOUTH in the manner described.

One last thing that REALLLLLLY Irks me here... is this statement:

It suggests that as an ice sheet collapses, water actually moves away from it because the sheet's gravitational pull lessens. The result is that the sea level in the area of the shelf actually drops, while other areas see dramatic increases.

Ok... who the hell thunk that crap up? Gravity?

Ice has a given density. That density is, you guessed it LESS than liquid water. There is no more or less pull associated with a mass of that density based on the very fact that the material is only changing in VOLUME and NOT MASS.

Good GOD!!!!!!!

[Malsua]

Rick,

The article is a load of shit. The nit I'm going to pick is that ice SHEET as opposed to SHELF is land bound and adding it to the water WILL raise the level.

There is also a local compressive effect of the sheet call isostatic compression. If trillions of tons of ice are removed from AntArctica, the continent itself will rise up and displace more water. How much or how significant, I don't think is knowable but from 1/4 to 1/2 mile is what i've read as predicted.

[samizdat]

Holy sheet. Are there any cows in Antartica? Herd em down and save the planet.

If the earth moves under my feet, we'll all do a full tilt boogie- and the top will staighten up. Global warming will be defeated.

On a serious note- sludgily, I can fathom your rebuttal of Ricks ice water analogy. But I cant catch the drift. How will this water movement cause a tilting of axis and which way and why?. Will the north pole tilt more south or will the south pole go north. If it's the latter- that would straighten thing up and cause season to be milder. ¿Correctamundo?

[Malsua]

How will this water movement cause a tilting of axis

It won't but their theory is that you've unbalanced the top. Spin a top watch it whirl. Add weight at any point on the top and spin it again...the top will spin differently. Since our "top", the Earth is already spinning in one fashion, shifting the mass around will affect the spin.

[samizdat]

ok- so theoretically, if a lot of earth/rock/sludge sinks along with the water movement, it would put a small dent in the south pole.

one cannot say precisely east or west, since the top spins, but a big bulge on either lower side - both since we're spinning would likely topple the top or at least create a slantier tilt- the extreme of which would be the north pole gets roasted while the south gets no sun. the northern hemisphere would see daylight 24 hours and the southern would be dim and cold. That would make the equatorial region north to the 1st tropic habitable. Am I in the right place?

[Malsua]

ok- so theoretically, if a lot of earth/rock/sludge sinks along with the water movement, it would put a small dent in the south pole.

one cannot say precisely east or west, since the top spins, but a big bulge on either lower side - both since we're spinning would likely topple the top or at least create a slantier tilt- the extreme of which would be the north pole gets roasted while the south gets no sun. the northern hemisphere would see daylight 24 hours and the southern would be dim and cold. That would make the equatorial region north to the 1st tropic habitable. Am I in the right place?

No. The most extreme case would cause some wobble. Some meaning...precise measurements over years by highly trained scientists might be detectable. Polar weather in Crapwater Texas isn't going to happen. Gyroscopic stability will maintain the Earth as it is for billions of years to come.

[samizdat]

Thanks. I was going to mention the wobble, but you beat me to it.

I guess I learned something. Probably the ice sheet caper is the Russkies fault for trying to drill into hell. Secular humanist pigs.

It reached a depth before stopping: 12,262 meters = 44,290 ft = 7.62 miles!
due to higher than expected temperatures at this depth and location, 180 °C (356 °F) instead of expected 100 °C (212 °F), drilling deeper was deemed unfeasible and the drilling was stopped in 1992.

heat must emenate magnetism and gravity.

http://kylekeeton.com/2008/08/russia-race-to-center-of-earth.html

[vector7]

Second super-fast flip of Earth's poles found

• Updated 12:04 03 September 2010
• Magazine issue 2776. Subscribe and save
• For similar stories, visit the Solar System Topic Guide

On the flip, in record time (Image: G.Glatzmaier/Los Alamos National Laboratory/P.Roberts/UCLA/SPL)

SOME 16 million years ago, north became south in a matter of years. Such fast flips are impossible, according to models of the Earth's core, but this is now the second time that evidence has been found.

The magnetic poles swap every 300,000 years, a process that normally takes up to 5000 years. In 1995 an ancient lava flow with an unusual magnetic pattern was discovered in Oregon. It suggested that the field at the time was moving by 6 degrees a day - at least 10,000 times faster than usual. "Not many people believed it," says Scott Bogue of Occidental College in Los Angeles.

Now Bogue and his colleague Jonathan Glen of the United States Geological Survey in Menlo Park, California, say they have found a second example in Nevada. The lava rock suggests that in one year, Earth's magnetic field shifted by 53 degrees (Geophysical Research Letters, DOI: 10.1029/2010GL044286).

At that rate, a full flip would take less than four years, but there could be another interpretation. "It may have been a burst of rapid acceleration that punctuated the steady movement of the field," says Bogue.

Peter Olson of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, remains sceptical and points out that the effects could have been local rather than global.

Earth is overdue for a reversal, and rapid shifts would cause widespread chaos - for navigation and migratory birds for instance.

[American Patriot]

A "fast flip" is NOT impossible.

You can easily re-magnetize something and quickly. The Earth's own field can be flipped as well, and there's plenty of evidence for it before these "two".

[Ryan Ruck]

Magnetic North Pole Shifts, Forces Runway Closures at Florida Airport

January 6, 2011

The planet's northern magnetic pole is drifting slowly but steadily towards Russia -- and it's throwing off planes in Florida.

Tampa International Airport was forced to readjust its runways Thursday to account for the movement of the Earth's magnetic fields, information that pilots rely upon to navigate planes. Thanks to the fluctuations in the force, the airport has closed its primary runway until Jan. 13 to change taxiway signs to account for the shift, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

The poles are generated by movements within the Earth's inner and outer cores, though the exact process isn't exactly understood. They're also constantly in flux, moving a few degrees every year, but the changes are almost never of such a magnitude that runways require adjusting, said Paul Takemoto, a spokesman for the FAA.

The magnetic fields vary from place to place. Adjustments are needed now at airports in Tampa, but they aren't immediately required at all airports across the country.

So just how often is something like this necessary? "It happens so infrequently that they wouldn't venture a guess," Takemoto told FoxNews.com. "In fact, you're the first journalist to ever ask me about it."

Takemoto was quick to point out that the change, which also was required at Tampa's smaller Peter O. Knight airport, will have no effect on passenger safety.

"You want to be absolutely precise in your compass heading," he pointed out. "To make sure the precision is there that we need, you have to make these changes."

Kathleen Bergen, another spokeswoman for the FAA, explained that runway designations and charting rely upon geomagnetic information. "Aviation is charted using latitude and longitude and the magnetic poles," she told FoxNews.com.

The busiest runway at Tampa International will be re-designated 19R/1L on aviation charts. It had been 18R/36L, indicating its alignment along the 180-degree approach from the north and the 360-degree approach from the south, explained an article in the Tampa Tribune detailing the changes. Later this month, the airport's east parallel runway and the seldom used east-west runway will be closed to change signs reflecting their new designations as well.

"The Earth's poles are changing constantly, and when they change more than three degrees, that can affect runway numbering," Bergen said.

While rejiggering the runways is a very extreme event, the fields are constantly in flux and constantly being remapped, explained Lorne McKee, a scientist with the geomagnetism division of Natural Resources Canada.

"Since the fields change relatively slowly, they're marked out at 10 degree increments," he explained. The field has swung from approximately 10 degrees east in the late 16th century to 25 degrees west in the early 19th century -- before returning to a current value of about 3 degrees west.

It wasn't immediately clear when or even if changes would be required at other airports. And even the rate of change is inconsistent, McKee said, noting that it's changing much more quickly at the poles themselves.

Beyond just sliding around the planet, the magnetic north and south poles have been known to completely flip as well; these reversals, recorded in the magnetism of ancient rocks, are unpredictable. The last one was 780,000 years ago. Are we overdue for another? No one knows.

[American Patriot]

"The Earth's poles are changing constantly, and when they change more than three degrees, that can affect runway numbering," Bergen said.

Alright.....

Had to reload my charting program. (I am using something called Seaclear, free, but not very simple to use, have to go to NOAA to get the charts and figure out how to install them... but nevermind that this second)

Brought up chart number 11460, Cape Canaveral to Key West. Looking at the chart at the compass rose, it tells me the following...

True North, as you know is "True North", where all the meridians meet at the north pole. Magnetic North is somewhere west of the US and North. Around Alaska/Russia.

The chart gives this:

Magnetic Variance = 5deg 30' W (2009)
Annual increase = 5'

Very basically... 1 deg = 60 nautical miles (nm) = 6067 feet
1' (1 minute) = 1 nm
1" (1 second) = 60 feet

The chart says there was a 5 deg 30' W variance in 2009.

Two years later you add 5' per year or 2*5' = 10' = 10 nm or 12134 feet since 2009.

If you're in a plane (boat, car, spaceship, whatever) and flying into Miami on a compass heading of 310 and you're 100 miles out and there is a difference in your chart (that you have not corrected for) you're going to miss the airport by a few miles.

Not a lot, but enough that you won't be on approach properly. Every mile you go, you are going right of the runway.

Now - just so everyone knows, this particular thing has been going on a LONG time... and you cna examine charts going back many dozens of years to discover this.

[American Patriot]

[quote]Study says geological changes could shift the axis of the Earth[/quoute]




Above is a screen shot of the chart I used, you can read it yourselves.

Now... on the subject...

An ice shelf is NOT going to shift the earth's axis. It's POSSIBLE that a massive quake could SLOW the spin of the earth, but the axis will NOT tilt.

The amount of kinetic energy the Earth as as it spins on it's own axis is a result of the energy being imparted to the planet by everything from an ancient collision to previously the amount of energy from material falling in and forming the planet initially.

A heavy weight moving around on the planet will not put enough strain on the planet to change that or oppose the original kinetic force.

Sorry...

[American Patriot]

Earth weigth (aprox) =6,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons

What can an iceberg do???

Go "Plunk" when it falls in. LOL

At MOST it will create a mini tidal wave near by and could be expected to cause shoreline damage many miles away.

A large chunk of land collapsing into the sea could create a tidal wave across an ocean destroying houses and other man made structures in close to shore. Boats out a few miles would be safe (as long as they were past the shelf of the island or land mass).

I suppose a big enough ice shelf could do the same thing. Difference is it will make a big splash, but ice floats and won't sink as deep as stone/dirt would do. Therefore a BIGGER splash by land mass, than by ice.

Make sense?

[American Patriot]

I don't care how much it weighs. Numbers like that are too big for me to think about.

I get headaches from it. LOL