Gays and The Military: A Bad Fit

[Backstop]

“The idea that they would be satisfied with a military that is merely indifferent to sexual preference ignores what they’ve done in other institutions, such as corporations, schools and even some church denominations.”

Not to keep beating the dead horse, but this is one of my big issues here.

They will never be satisfied with being gay and keeping their private lives private.

There's always parades, demands, and their in-your-face actions.

I predict hatred in the mil against them will grow. The mil population in generall don't go for this showmanship, and won't take kindly to that or any special considerations that gay folks may get.

And I believe when you combine this with all the mil budget cuts, folks will be leaving in droves.

[American Patriot]

Backstop....

They aren't ALL like that. It's a FEW that cause this image.

[Backstop]

That's good to know.

[American Patriot]

Honestly, I know several male personnel who happen to be gay. I know of some whom have deployed, and some who are about to.

They are not the kind of people who make a big deal out of it.

It's not - and I mean truly NOT the men and women in the military that make a huge deal about this, and it's truly not the gays in the military who make a big deal. It's flamers (as they are called in the Gay community, NOT my words, and not a phrase *I* use) that make a huge stink about things, and "In Your Face" with it all.


It's THOSE people that the military, the normal folks and the Gay folks can ALL do without.

[Backstop]

I have no problem with the folks that keep their private lives private.

The gay lifestyle is wrong on so many levels.

And folks that participate in the in-your-face events won't get any pity from me.

I know a gay co-worker, and every so often he'l start with that gay-talk. I usually tell him to STFU with that, and he stops. AFTR, he's retired mil. He told me he decided he liked to suck dick after he retired. He and I have had quite a few converstations about this.

He worked at Toyota with me, and no one there would talk to him because he looked and kinda acted gay - plus the rumors were flying. Literally, people would get up and walk away if he showed up for lunch. For the most part, I was the only one he had to talk to. Yeah...guess he had a tough row to hoe.

Told before: I changed my Commissary shopping day to Thursday evening, and discovered he was there every Thurs also. And of course he had to run his mouth, and told anyone that would listen he met me every Thurs at the base Commissary. Man, did I catch flak for that...

Needless to say, I quit shopping on Thursdays.

When I was in the mil, we had Admin types who managed those pesky controlled documents. One guy was gay. He was talking to one of the girls in the office when I returned some documents, and they kept talking when I walked up. Guess my angry face made an impact, as I never heard any more talk of that nature from him again.

About 20 yrs ago, my GF and I went to St Louis to some music/drama/etc. type school that was closing. Her brother was gay, graduated from there, and was invited back for a school-closing performance.

It was a big event; their parents were there, tons of great food, etc.

Anyway, after dinner their parents left, and my GF, her brother, and his BF went out.

After we all got drunk, those 2 started acting so gay it made me sick. They decided to "educate" me about the "real" gay lifestyle. I heard stories about picking guys up in highway restareas - I'll stop there.

All I could do was sit there and slam JD.

Like I said: I have no problem with folks keeping what they do behind closed doors...behind closed doors.

But if they're gonna go public, start demanding what they think are rights, etc. then I will protest, and state my case.

It's wrong, and I don't have to accept it. I don't care what kind of diversity BS it's labeled.

Like I told my gay co-worker, "It's not my fault you like to suck dick."

[Toad]

Found this preview over at Free Republic. Looks like the Corps is accepting the future.

[Ryan Ruck]

Take note at the top... "A Gannett Company".

Even though it is the Marine Times, there have been plenty of times when there has been content with a liberal bent to it. Same goes for all the other branch Times. All owned by Gannett.

[Toad]

Gotcha, thanks Ryan.

[Backstop]

Hey Toad,

Do you have access to that issue or is it available online to everyone?

I'd like to read that article about the Serpa holster - "Dangerous New Holsters".

I shop on base, but they only sell Army Times and AF Times.

[Toad]

No, just the cover link, sorry.

[Backstop]

Thanks.

Edit:

I looked around here quite a bit, and couldn't find anything.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/

[Toad]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/us...a.html?_r=1&hp


Marines Hit the Ground Running in Seeking Recruits at Gay Center
By ELISABETH BUMILLER

Published: September 20, 2011

TULSA, Okla. — Master Sgt. Anthony Henry, a top Marine recruiting trainer for the southwestern United States, pulled up to Tulsa’s biggest gay community center on Tuesday morning and left his Chevy where he could make a fast getaway. “I have an exit strategy,” he said. “I know where my choke points are, I’ve strategically parked my car right on the curbside, I have an out.”


But as it happened, one of the strangest days in the history of the United States Marine Corps unfolded without the protests and insults that Sergeant Henry had feared. Sergeant Henry, who had been invited to set up a recruiting booth on the first day of the end of “don’t ask, don’t tell” at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in downtown Tulsa, instead spent it in quiet conversation with a trickle of gay women who came in to ask about joining the Marines.

“It’s your business and you don’t have to share it,” Sergeant Henry told Ariel Pratt, 20, who asked whether she would face discrimination in the military as a lesbian serving openly. “But you’re also free to be at the mall with your girlfriend.”
Ms. Pratt, 20, asked Sergeant Henry what he liked about the Marines.

“It’s like a little family,” he said. “We get mad at each other, we joke with each other, but we don’t let anybody else make fun of us.”
“That’s pretty cool,” she said.


The Marines were the service most opposed to ending the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, but they were the only one of five invited branches of the military to turn up with their recruiting table and chin-up bar at the center Tuesday morning. Although Marines pride themselves on being the most testosterone-fueled of the services, they also ferociously promote their view of themselves as the best. With the law now changed, the Marines appear determined to prove that they will be better than the Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard in recruiting gay, lesbian and bisexual service members.

Still, judging by the traffic at the gay rights center on Tuesday, there will not be an immediate flood of gay and lesbian Marine applicants. By 3 p.m., more than four hours after the Marines had set up their booth opposite the center’s AIDS quilt, only three women had wandered in, none ideal recruits. The local television crews who had come to watch the action — or inaction, as it turned out — easily outnumbered them.

The first potential recruit, First Lt. Misty McConahy of the Oklahoma National Guard, asked if the Marines had openings for any behavioral health officers, her specialty in the guard. She was told no, the Marines use the Navy for medical care. (Later, Sergeant Henry said that he should have sent her to a recruiter for Marine Corps officers, given her rank.)

“It’s a lot of courage for her to come out like that,” Sergeant Henry said, after watching Lieutenant McConahy surrounded by reporters. “Her commander is probably going to see that on TV tonight.”

The second potential recruit, Ms. Pratt, the niece of a late benefactor of the gay rights center, had scars up her left arm from cutting herself in high school — an almost certain medical disqualification for the Marines. “I’ve been recruiting for a very long time,” Sergeant Henry told her, gently. “Those are very tough to deal with.” He took her name and number and said he would make some calls to see what he could do.

The third potential recruit was a 25-year-old overweight high school dropout. Sergeant Henry told her, again gently, that she should come back after she got her diploma and got in shape.

Not that getting into the Marines is easy for anyone right now. As the Marines tell it, only one in 10 applicants qualify for service, with most turned away for a variety of afflictions: asthma, attention deficit disorder, overweight (a 5-foot, 8-inch, 18-year-old male can’t weigh more than 180 pounds before boot camp), excessive tattoos, joint injuries, lack of a high school diploma and a history of drugs beyond infrequent marijuana use.

A bad economy has made jobs in the Marines all the more desirable, at a time when Marines anticipate shrinking their force — down to an undetermined number from the current 200,000 on active duty — as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan wind down. Beyond the economy, said Sergeant Henry, a veteran of three tours in Iraq, the other motivator is the same as always: “They want to be a Marine and they want to blow stuff up.”


The Marines were at the gay rights center at the invitation of Toby Jenkins, the center’s executive director, who said he saw no better way to celebrate the end of “don’t ask, don’t tell” in a conservative state that strongly supports the military.


“If we’ve been fighting for 15 years for the right to be in the military, we said, ‘Let’s just ask military recruiters if they’d be available,’ ” he said. “But no one was prepared for that question. It was like I was talking to people like they were deer in the headlights.”

The Marines did in fact think that Mr. Jenkins’s invitation might be a hoax, so they checked him out and talked to their superiors, who talked to their superiors. Then they took a deep breath and decided to go. As the day wore on, the Marines said the bust in recruiting had been made up for in media exposure and public relations.


Sergeant Henry and his public affairs officer, Capt. Abraham Sipe, gave interviews at the center with five local television stations, three print reporters and one correspondent for National Public Radio. In between, gay rights supporters stopped by to shake their hands.

“Toby said there were cute guys in uniform here,” said Cecilia Wessinger, 46, a longtime friend of the center, who wandered in about 2 p.m. She thanked Sergeant Henry for coming and acknowledged that she was surprised to see him. A few hours later, Kelly Kirby, 57, a retired Air Force sergeant, thanked Captain Sipe. In the 1970s, he said, his boyfriend had been discharged from the Air Force, but he himself had not been discovered, and the memory still haunted him.

“I appreciate you being here,” Mr. Kirby said.

By 5 p.m. the Marines had packed up their booth and chin-up bar and headed out, with plans to come back later to attend a panel discussion. It was all uncharted territory. As Sergeant Henry had said the day before of the new world the Marines now inhabit, “At first it’s going to be kind of shock and awe.”

But like a good Marine, he was with the program: “My take is, if they can make it through our boot camp, which is the toughest boot camp in the world, then they ought to have the opportunity to wear the uniform.”

[Backstop]

More B.S.

Now the mil is going to gay community centers and actively recruiting gay folks.

Somehow, someway, this gay stuff is always in the news.

If gay folks want to join, they can go to the normal mil recruiting centers.

And as always, if you want to be gay, press on and be gay.

But keep your private lives private.

-------------------------

The first potential recruit, First Lt. Misty McConahy of the Oklahoma National Guard, asked if the Marines had openings for any behavioral health officers, her specialty in the guard.

Would you go see a behavioral health officer that was gay?

In my opinion, that would be like going to see an obese person for diet counseling.

[Toad]

To paraphrase my next door neighbor Jeff, a 20 year National Guard Commander with 1 tour in Iraq...

"I don't care. Do you show up on time? Do you do your job? Do you execute orders as directed? Are you under the radar except for excellence? Then I don't care and don't want to know about it. While on duty I don't go telling people how much I like banging my wife. While off duty I don't go there either. Leave it at home. Let's get some work done."

[Backstop]

Perfect.

[American Patriot]

To paraphrase my next door neighbor Jeff, a 20 year National Guard Commander with 1 tour in Iraq...

"I don't care. Do you show up on time? Do you do your job? Do you execute orders as directed? Are you under the radar except for excellence? Then I don't care and don't want to know about it. While on duty I don't go telling people how much I like banging my wife. While off duty I don't go there either. Leave it at home. Let's get some work done."

I dunno where your neighbor heard that, but it was almost my exact speech to my guys not all that long ago when there was a rumor "someone in the unit is gay".

I called them in and told them very nearly the same thing. LOL!

I guess military guys do think a lot alike.

[Backstop]

It's been said many times by many people including me - the repeal of DADT is only the beginning.

And for those not familiar, a mil person can only live in base housing if they're married, or are single and have custody of their kids - as far as I know.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/righ...#ixzz1Yaq5s16g

Gay rights group pushes for more military changes
September 20, 2011 12:00 PM

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

NORFOLK, Va. — A gay rights group kicked off the repeal of the U.S. military's ban on openly gay troops with a protest outside the world's largest Navy base that called for an expansion of benefits for gay and lesbian military members.

"We don't want to be the ones who are the wet blankets of the movement, but at the same time we also want to be the instigators of the movement," Heather Cronk, managing director of Get Equal, said in a telephone interview from Washington, D.C. "We'll celebrate for 10 minutes and we'll get right back to work."

Protests, rallies and community conversations were planned by Get Equal on Tuesday in about a dozen cities across the country, including Boston, San Francisco and Laramie, Wyo. Nationwide celebrations marking the end of the policy commonly known as "don't ask, don't tell" were also planned by a variety of other groups, including one in downtown Norfolk.

A handful of protesters organized by Get Equal set up near Naval Station Norfolk before dawn with balloons and signs, including one that said "The repeal of DADT is not enough!"

Among other things, protesters want gay marriages recognized at the federal level.

"Gay, lesbian and bisexual service men and women can walk a little taller today and that's a great thing, but there's still so much to do," said Beth Brooker, Get Equal's Virginia leader. "Same sex couples can't live on base together, they don't have medical benefits, they don't have travel allowances, they don't have housing allowances. They don't even have the right to be notified if their partner dies in battle."

The protesters were largely greeted with open signs of support as scores of motorists in civilian and military clothes honked their horns in approval. One female sailor drove by the corner the protesters were set up on and shouted "Yeah!" in approval of them as she gave a fist pump.

There were also signs of disagreement. At least one person shouted out a gay slur as he drove by. Others in uniform grimaced, rolled their eyes and shook their heads as they drove past them.

"It's a great day. This is a day that I've been looking forward to since 1979," said Michael Campbell, a gay 52-year-old former member of the Coast Guard.

Campbell said when he was in the Coast Guard he used to have to hide his military identification sticker on his automobile with that of a radio station anytime he went to a gay bar. He also said there were times when secret signals were given: One bar kept an indoor Christmas tree and turned on the lights to tip off gay military men to quickly find a woman to talk to because outsiders were coming in.

"Those are going to be fun old anecdotes to tell when I get old and I'm in a rocking chair or something. I don't think that applies today," he said.

While military leaders have stressed through training in recent months the need to be respectful, that doesn't always carry over to off-base behavior. It isn't uncommon in this large military community to hear sailors, marines and soldiers who are out of uniform make slurs and jokes at the expense of gay people while out in public.

Brooker said it will take time for some people to change, but the gay rights movement has the momentum.

"You're going to have all these right-wing conservative bigots, quite frankly, who want to call us every name in the book to make themselves feel better about discriminating against us and it just doesn't work. We're not going to give into that," she said.

[Ryan Ruck]

After Demise Of ‘Don’t Ask,’ Activists Call For End To Military Ban On Transgenders

September 28, 2011

With homosexuals now able to serve openly in the military, the gay rights movement’s next battleground is to persuade the Obama administration to end the armed forces’ ban on “transgenders,” a group that includes transsexuals and cross-dressers.

“Our position is that the military should re-examine the policy, the medical regulations, so as to allow open service for transgender people,” said Vincent Paolo Villano, spokesman for the 6,000-member Center for Transgender Equality.

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN), which pushed to end the military’s gay ban, is urging President Obama to sign an executive order prohibiting discrimination based on “gender identity.”

It had wanted the order to happen on Sept. 20, the official date “don’t ask, don’t tell,” as the gay ban was called, ended via repeal legislation signed by Mr. Obama.

SLDN’s goal is contained on a Web page with the headline, “Working toward transgender military service.” The page states that a decision to remove the ban must be made at the Pentagon. “Relationships between transgender organizations, medical associations, and military allies will be crucial for advancing this issue,” it says.

“SLDN will continue to urge President Obama to issue an executive order to prohibit discrimination and harassment in the military based upon sexual orientation and gender identity, and we will work closely with our allies to educate and create greater awareness of this inequity,” SLDN spokesman Zeke Stokes said.

“SLDN supports the revision of medical regulations to ensure that transgender Americans may serve.”

SLDN has raised the possibility of filing lawsuits to attain its goals, which include housing and other benefits for the partners of gay military members.

A White House spokesman declined to provide Mr. Obama’s position on transgenders in the military, referring a reporter to the Pentagon.

“Transgender and transsexual individuals are not permitted to join the military services,” said Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez. “The repeal of ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ will have no effect on these policies.”

The SLDN says “transgender” is commonly identified as an umbrella term for “transsexuals, cross-dressers, gender-queer people, intersex people, and other gender-variant individuals.”

Transgenders are not banned by law, but rather by a Defense Department instruction, “Medical Standards for Appointment, Enlistment or Induction in the Military Service.”

It lists scores of medical conditions that make one ineligible, including: “Current or history of psychosexual conditions, including but not limited to transsexualism, exhibitionism, transvestism, voyeurism, and other paraphilias.”

The instruction was last updated by the Obama administration. Clifford Stanley, undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness, signed the new 52-page version in April 2010. If the administration did desire to lift the ban, it could have done it then, in theory.

SLDN has set up a website on Change.org for a petition asking Mr. Obama to issue a nondiscrimination order on transgenders.

In a letter to Mr. Obama, SLDN Director Aubrey Sarvis wrote: “We … call on you to show the leadership President Truman did when he issued an Executive Order banning racial discrimination in the armed services and to issue an Executive Order prohibiting discrimination in the armed services based on sexual orientation and gender identity to be effective on the date of repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”

Rep. Duncan Hunter, California Republican and Marine Corps combat veteran, said: “At some point, the administration will need to decide where this ranks among the military’s priorities. But it should send the message now that a line has been drawn, and it won’t get caught up in these discussions. I hope the administration has enough sense to see this for the unneeded distraction it is.”

[vector7]

Armed Services Subcommittee Chair: DOD Instructing Military 'To Do Things Which Are in Fact Illegal to Do'

By Pete Winn
September 30, 2011


Navy Lt. Gary Ross, left, checks the time with Dan Swezy before exchanging wedding vows on Monday night, Sept. 19, 2011, in Duxbury, Vt. (AP Photo/Toby Talbot)

(CNSNews.com) – Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) said the Obama administration was "bordering on lawlessness" with Friday’s Pentagon announcement that military chaplains may officiate in same-sex wedding ceremonies of service members in states where gay marriage is legal.

“One of the things that’s increasingly alarming to many Americans is the nature of various agencies of the federal government that either make up their own laws or try to create their own law when they do not have law-making authority,” Akin told CNSNews.com on Friday.

“In this case, it appears that the Department of Defense under Obama – and probably at Obama’s instruction -- has decided to ignore federal law and instruct the military to do things which are in fact illegal to do,” said Akin, who is the chairman of the Seapower & Projection Forces Subcommittee for the House Armed Services Committee.

“And that is a very dangerous precedent for our Department of Defense -- to do things that the law says that they’re not allowed to do," said the congressman.

In May, the House of Representatives passed an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, authored by Akin, to make it clear that the 1993 federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) applies to federal employees and federal property.

DOMA not only protects states from being forced to accept homosexual marriages, it defines for federal purposes that marriage is between one man and one woman, said Aiken.

“So, if the Department of Defense decides that they are going to have government-paid chaplains on government property performing homosexual marriages, they’re in direct violation of DOMA,” Akin told CNSNews.com.

“When you see essentially laws being created or ignored by the executive branch, that says we are bordering on lawlessness,” Akin added.
The Defense Department advisory, which was announced by Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness Clifford L. Stanley, states:

“A military chaplain may participate in or officiate any private ceremony, whether on or off a military installation, provided that the ceremony is not prohibited by applicable state and local law,” Stanley wrote.

“Further, a chaplain is not required to participate in or officiate a private ceremony if doing so would be in variance with the tenets of his or her religion or personal beliefs," stated the Pentagon. "Finally, a military chaplain’s participation does not constitute an endorsement of the ceremony by DoD."

Conservative groups in Washington were just as outraged as Akin at the flouting of federal law.


President Barack Obama speaks at a DNC fundraiser at Gotham Hall in New York, Tuesday, Sept., 20, 2011. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais

“The Pentagon has clearly overstepped its bounds by declaring that military chaplains can perform same-sex marriages,” said Penny Nance, president of Concerned Women for America.

Peter Sprigg, senior fellow for policy studies at the Washington, D.C.-based Family Research Council, said it is telling that the DOD memo, which was released jointly with Defense General Counsel Jeb Johnson, refers only to state and local laws.

The Obama administration, Sprigg said, is in full-scale rebellion when it comes to enforcing DOMA.

“We see this administration attacking DOMA within all three branches of government because they are supporting a bill in Congress which would repeal DOMA, they have announced that they will no longer defend DOMA in the courts, and in fact they consider it unconstitutional,” Sprigg said.

“And now, by whatever powers they have within the executive branch, they are also ignoring DOMA – all while saying that they would continue to enforce it while it remains on the books," he said. "It’s really rather breathtaking.”

Sprigg also said the Pentagon announcement comes as homosexual activists announced this week that they were gearing up to push for transgendered people to be accepted into the military.

[vector7]

Senate Approves Bill that Legalizes Sodomy and Bestiality in U.S. Military

Click here to read about the Far Left plan to DESTROY the American Military system….

The Senate on Thursday evening voted 93-7 to approve a defense authorization bill that includes a provision which not only repeals the military law on sodomy, it also repeals the military ban on sex with animals–or bestiality.



And now this is an added concern, that sodomy has been removed, and as we have discovered, that bestiality--the prohibition against it--has been removed from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So yes, the House will have problems with this bill.

On Nov. 15, the Senate Armed Services Committee had unanimously approved S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act, which includes a provision to repeal Article 125 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

Article 125 of the UCMJ makes it illegal to engage in both sodomy with humans and sex with animals.

It states: “(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense. (b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Family Research Council President Tony Perkins said the effort to remove sodomy from military law stems from liberal Senate Democrats’ and President Obama’s support for removing the military’s Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy.

“It’s all about using the military to advance this administration’s radical social agenda,” Perkins told CNSNews.com. “Not only did they overturn Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, but they had another problem, and that is, under military law sodomy is illegal, just as adultery is illegal, so they had to remove that prohibition against sodomy.”

Perkins said removing the bestiality provision may have been intentional–or just “collateral damage”

“Well, whether it was inadvertent or not, they have also taken out the provision against bestiality,” he said. “So now, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), there’s nothing there to prosecute bestiality.”

Former Army Col. Bob Maginnis said some military lawyers have indicated that bestiality may be prosecutable under another section of the military code of justice – the “catch-all” Article 134 for offenses against “good military order and discipline.”

But don’t count on that, he said.

“If we have a soldier who engages in sodomy with an animal – whether a government animal or a non-government animal – is it, in fact, a chargeable offense under the Uniform Code? I think that’s in question,” Maginnis told CNSNews.com.

“When the reader stops laughing, the reader needs to ask the question whether or not this is in the best interests of the government, in the best interests of the military and the best interests of the country? I think not.”

He added: “Soldiers, unfortunately, like it or not, have engaged in this type of behavior in the past. Will they in the future, if they remove this statute? I don’t know.”

Perkins said there was no attempt to remove the UCMJ repeal provision from the bill, which Perkins had expected the Senate to approve.

Now that it has passed, however, the Senate version will have to go to a conference committee, and Perkins predicts there will be several sticking points with the House.

“The House in their version of the defense authorization, reinforced the Defense of Marriage Act, saying that there is a military DOMA as well, prohibiting same-sex marriage on military bases – something the Department of Defense is pushing for,” he said.

“And now this is an added concern, that sodomy has been removed, and as we have discovered, that bestiality–the prohibition against it–has been removed from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So yes, the House will have problems with this bill.” source – CNS News

Click here to read about the Far Left plan to DESTROY the American Military system….