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Thread: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

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    Default Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican
    March 11, 2010

    Sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are proof that that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican", according to the Holy See's chief exorcist.

    Father Gabriele Amorth, 85, who has been the Vatican's chief exorcist for 25 years and says he has dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession, said that the consequences of satanic infiltration included power struggles at the Vatican as well as "cardinals who do not believe in Jesus, and bishops who are linked to the Demon".

    He added: "When one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' [a phrase coined by Pope Paul VI in 1972] in the holy rooms, it is all true – including these latest stories of violence and paedophilia."

    He claimed that another example of satanic behaviour was the Vatican "cover-up" over the deaths in 1998 of Alois Estermann, the then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and Corporal Cedric Tornay, a Swiss Guard, who were all found shot dead. "They covered up everything immediately," he said. "Here one sees the rot".

    A remarkably swift Vatican investigation concluded that Corporal Tornay had shot the commander and his wife and then turned his gun on himself after being passed over for a medal. However Tornay's relatives have challenged this. There have been unconfirmed reports of a homosexual background to the tragedy and the involvement of a fourth person who was never identfied.

    Father Amorth, who has just published Memoirs of an Exorcist, a series of interviews with the Vatican journalist Marco Tosatti, said that the attempt on the life of Pope John Paul II in 1981 had been the work of the Devil, as had an incident last Christmas when a mentally disturbed woman threw herself at Pope Benedict XVI at the start of Midnight Mass, pulling him to the ground.

    Father José Antonio Fortea Cucurull, a Rome-based exorcist, said that Father Amorth had "gone well beyond the evidence" in claiming that Satan had infiltrated the Vatican corridors.

    "Cardinals might be better or worse, but all have upright intentions and seek the glory of God," he said. Some Vatican officials were more pious than others, "but from there to affirm that some cardinals are members of satanic sects is an unacceptable distance."

    Father Amorth told La Repubblica that the devil was "pure spirit, invisible. But he manifests himself with blasphemies and afflictions in the person he possesses. He can remain hidden, or speak in different languages, transform himself or appear to be agreeable. At times he makes fun of me."

    He said it sometimes took six or seven of his assistants to to hold down a possessed person. Those possessed often yelled and screamed and spat out nails or pieces of glass, which he kept in a bag. "Anything can come out of their mouths – finger-length pieces of iron, but also rose petals."

    He said that hoped every diocese would eventually have a resident exorcist. Under Church Canon Law any priest can perform exorcisms, but in practice they are carried out by a chosen few trained in the rites.

    Father Amorth was ordained in 1954 and became an official exorcist in 1986. In the past he has suggested that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin were possessed by the Devil. He was among Vatican officials who warned that J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter novels made a "false distinction between black and white magic".

    He approves, however, of the 1973 film The Exorcist, which although "exaggerated" offered a "substantially exact" picture of possession.

    In 2001 he objected to the introduction of a new version of the exorcism rite, complaining that it dropped centuries-old prayers and was "a blunt sword" about which exorcists themselves had not been consulted. The Vatican said later that he and other exorcists could continue to use the old ritual.

    He is the president of honour of the Association of Exorcists.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Holy cow those are incredible accusations - as related to the Vatican.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    Ratzinger is a Communist, but an unusually clever one, skillfully useing a dialectical strategy to destroy the Catholic Church from within. the scandal fits the pattern-who can truly say they trust a priest or religious with their children these days, or would consider a vocation to the priestly or religious life? Very few, I would reckon. And all the while, Ratzinger appears on the 'conservative' end of the spectrum.

    He's not unhappy with this scandal, for him it's 'mission almost accomplished'....
    Well...holy cow again.

    Your post certainly begs further explanation.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    You might want to see this about "The Exorcist" the 4/4 vid is the best, but I'd watch all 4 rather than just the last one. So here's number 1. Watch out for what seems to be harmless playing of some games and viewing some movies and activities, as is pointed out as how this demon issue began in the 4/4 videos. There are gateways:
    Last edited by Aplomb; March 15th, 2010 at 20:05. Reason: clarified a statement
    I'm taking America back. Step 1: I'm taking my kids out of the public re-education system. They will no longer have liberal bias and lies like this from bullying teachers when I expect them to be taught reading, writing, and arithmetic:
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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by Aplomb View Post
    Watch out for what seems harmless playing and viewing. There are gateways:
    You're gonna have to explain that before I'm clicking on anything.


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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Hi Backstop. Nothing to the watching, but to explain is Just this:
    Although ouija boards are viewed by some to be a simple toy, there are people who believe they can be harmful, including Edgar Cayce, who called them "dangerous."[25]
    Some practitioners claim to have had bad experiences related to the use of talking boards by being haunted by "demons," seeing apparitions of spirits, and hearing voices after using them. A few paranormal researchers, such as John Zaffis, claim that the majority of the worst cases of so-called demon harassment and possession are caused by the use of Ouija boards. The American demonologists Ed and Lorraine Warren stated that "Ouija boards are just as dangerous as drugs."[26] They further state that "séances and Ouija boards and other occult paraphernalia are dangerous because 'evil spirits' often disguise themselves as your loved ones—and take over your life."[26]
    Many Christians hold the belief that using a Ouija board allows communication with demons, which they say is Biblically forbidden as a form of divination.[27] Some people who claim to have been oppressed by evil spirits after using a board say that they could only get rid of these problems after Christian deliverance.[28] Many Christians believe that no dead person's soul can be summoned, and that the only summoned spirits are demons who are trying to harm humans.[29]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija#C...f_ouija_boards

    Here's something extremely informative on the CCHD and Alinsky...

    I'm taking America back. Step 1: I'm taking my kids out of the public re-education system. They will no longer have liberal bias and lies like this from bullying teachers when I expect them to be taught reading, writing, and arithmetic:
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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    I have been saying the same thing for years! This whole disgusting child raping has shone a light on the evil in the Roman catholic church. The fact that the current pope was once a Nazi is like a rotten cherry on top of it all. How anyone can still choose to support this organization is beyond me.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Studying problems for your whole life, Micheal only gives you insight into the thinking of the evil people involved. It never solves the problem.

    Period.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    I am a Roman Catholic. I believe that the true Roman Catholic Church is the pure and spotless Bride of Jesus Christ, Illumined by the Holy Ghost and Is the Ark of Salvation on Earth, which is the domain of the Prince of this World...She is the Church instituted by Jesus Christ to give Grace and Repentance to the Nations, the Good News of the Lord.
    Hmmmmm.....
    Michael - I appreciate your passion, but respectfully disagree with your position... at least the exclusivity of the Roman Catholic (only) claim to being the true Bride of Christ. If indeed that is what you are saying.

    Perhaps you are not stating unequivocally that the Roman Catholic Church, and only the members of the Roman Catholic faith, shall be and are the true Bride of Christ. Please elucidate.

    And... I believe it to be a biblical standard that the giving of grace and repentance lies with God Himself and only God. You may want to unpack your beliefs just a little. No offense intended.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    This Regime that is there in Rome is the Prophesied 'Great Apostasy' and bears only enough resemblance to the True Faith so that It may, in the words of Our Lord; 'Deceive if possible even the very Elect.' The roots of this Apostasy go deep, but the culmination of the actual 'Coup-de-Etat' happened in 1958. What calls itself the 'Roman Catholic Church' today is a hijacked organization that bears the name and certain appearances, but is contrary to 20 centuries of actual Catholic teaching.
    Can you direct me to 1 book that is the best reference that details this coup, the prophesy of it, the major players, etc?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Backstop; July 27th, 2011 at 21:17. Reason: This thing here is important: /

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    michael does The Rhine flows into the Tiber talk about this: Prophesied 'Great Apostasy'?

    What I'm more interested in is details about how the Vatican was taken over as related to a prophecy.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    michael, I gotta admit I'm impressed with the depth of your knowledge here.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    None taken. And yes that is what i'm saying unequivocally, that the Roman Catholic Church is the Ark of Salvation, the Bride of Christ, and all outside of Her will perish in the Flood. As a non-Catholic, you should take no offense and I imagine few non-catholics over the centuries have lost any sleep over the matter....Unless if and when it would happen to be shown to be true. I believe what I believe and while i'm equally trusting in God that all good men and women will be saved, I do firmly hold to the Dogma of 'Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus'. I trust then that no offense will be taken then for what is my honest reply?
    Every religion since time started has stated the same thing. "Follow us, or burn in hell".

    The first churches weren't catholic.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    A person forms his religious beliefs via a number of factors.

    1. Believing what another person says.

    This is complicated by an intervening process of assigning some kind of superiority of some words over others.

    We have given arbitrary authority to Paul (and others), for example, by placing it between two covers and including it in what we call the New Testament. Paul was simply a man espousing his version of making the Christ's philosophy applicable in his world.

    Yet, in truth, these words have no greater validity than words passed down by modern theologians, preachers, and ministers.

    The proof of the pudding is longevity of value and validity. In other words, if something has a ring of truth and is valued on a personal level, then, for the person, it is something to be internalized and valued. Examples of this can be found in many of the "truisms" of Benjamin Franklin and in the morals of Aesop.

    2. Experiences

    Religion should be exclusively personal. The individual universes that each of lives within, while struggling to build bridges to the other 7 billion universes other people live in, are subject to a very individualized framework of interpreting not only one's own universe but other people's universes as well.

    People experience the intervention of God, angels, the Holy Spirit, and the like. Whether or not in an absolute universe such events happen or are "real" is moot. For the individual, "it" happened, and that should be the end of the matter.

    That I might see angels dancing on the head of a pin does not make me correct in either the teaching of such or insisting that anyone else believe me or accept the idea is absolutely true.

    3. Ritual

    Rick's last post is succinct and sadly true. It sums up a sad effect of the human mind: we like to package life into succinct and digestable packets.

    Whereas religion was supposed to be very simple, over time (often a short time) it morphs into something very complicated. The simple dance to induce the gods to produce rain becomes more and more elaborate with costume and different dance steps. We see the same thing in the Christian churches with the Eucharist. Christ simply passed bread and wine among his followers, in a Jewish-stylized ritual, and yet, we see in the process of celebrating the Eucharist with a kind of dance, accomplanied with many words and songs. In order to make something very simple and spiritual, we have added a great deal of ceremony to induce more mystery and (supposedly) spirituality.

    Similarly, we find religion (especially the Christian and Moslem worlds) creating hierarchies of spiritual worlds that allegedly have import on this single materialistic world of ours.

    The Roman Catholic Church cannot be faulted for building a spiritualistic theme that has yet to come-to-pass in the real world. Protestant churches of all flavors have ther own versions of spiritual worlds that strike one as being even more bizarre.

    In the six to ten thousand years (at least) since the gods-from-heaven-came, through all the iterations religion has changed (e.g., polytheism to monotheism), we have yet to shake off two perplexing and (IMO) ridiculous ideologies:

    a. The gods or god lives "up there";

    b. The Plato-hierarchy of a heaven and a hell (one above and one below) with humans stuck in the middle of some poorly performed Dante's play.

    One the pyschological level, we can understand the need for people to want a God who stays away when we want to be our own god and a God to be real close to provide help when we feel life pressing unfairly upon us.

    4. Bottom line

    Religion is personal. What a person believes should be personal and not universal. I could care less whether a person believes that fairies inhabit his garden. It is when that very same person presses me to believe the fairies are real and that I have to believe in those very same fairies.

    If one believes in the philosophy of the Christ, then one embraces the fact that all people are saved. No ifs, ands, or buts. Secondly, the Christian must also accept the fact that he is not the judge and jury over any other person as to the "afterlife" fate of another individual.

    I reject the Plato-described view of the cosmos and therefore the modern concepts of heaven and hell, which bear no relationship to what our ancient ancestors believed. One only needs to look into the mirror to realize that the real anti-Christ is staring back: we are in a constant internal war as to who will play God today--our God or ourselves.

    Even as the Hebrew word "satan" represented "adversary," and not even close to being a Christian or Moslem lord of hell, we are, as humans, quick to jump to creating our adversaries as satans; even quicker to damning these satans to our own versions of hell.

    We humans are also preoccupied with the notion of justice. Where Jesus stated to turn the other cheek, we lip speak agreement while plunging the knife deep into the backs of those who slighted us. Inasmuch as justice is a manmade concept, we want it to be divine. A parent chastizes us, and our first reaction is defiance, hurt, and often revenge. Few realize that this single chastizement has made us better humans; we still harbor that initial resentment and anger, causing it to balloon into a monster that eventually destroys life.

    Lastly, we are humans, comprised of extremely complicated mechanisms that oft go awry. We have two controlling hemispheres. Divorce these hemispheres, and reality (however defined) disappears. A brand new universe is introduced, and for the initiate it is terribly frightening.

    A neuro-scientist spoke of her experiences in a 20-minute presentation as she suffered a stroke in her left hemisphere. While the right hemisphere was the only "functioning" brain, her only concept of the world around her was reduced (or expanded?) to visions of energy. She could not distinguish where her fingertips ended and the wall began.

    In a left-brain world, everything is reduced to black-and-white, right-and-wrong. There is no emotion, no guilt, no remorse. The human being simply becomes a machine.

    Each individual has a different set of left- and right-brain combinations. On top of that, each of us is horribly brain-damaged and psychologically mangled. We spend so much time trying to cope with our disabilities and in the perceived "real" world. And then, we lose the real essence of being in the first place. If we would just let go of our cherished beliefs (e.g., my view is the correct view and all others are wrong), not only would we live much more happily but also get along with one another a whole lot more.

    Incredibly, despite people understanding just how frail and convoluted the human is, there appears a universal demand that all people conform to a single standard. Much worse, we have recreated a horrible--a terrible God who is unrelenting, unbending, and quick to damn in spite of the insistence that God is a loving God. Yes--to only those who believe in the same God.

    *sigh* God saves us from ourselves. We have managed only to damn ourselves, and we did not need a God to do it for us.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Seems to me, Michael describes a demon who hides his true being as "love".

    I stand by my original statements. Religion, and it is immaterial whether it was monotheistic, polytheistic or "Gaia" or whatever, has tried to FORCE others to follow it. Look around at the idiots from the "New Age" who have created (forced the creation) of things like EPA. All to protect "Mother Earth".

    Religion is stupid. People who try to FORCE me to believe as they believe are stupid too.

    Honestly, I don't want to hear it, I don't care.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Let me ask all of you something here... prefacing it with a story.

    Last Wednesday about midnight, a 24 year old man chased down and murdered, in cold blood, three teens, 16-19 yrs old. There is some belief at this point by authorities this was 1) a road rage thing or 2) gang related though none of them appear to actually belong to gangs (but rather are perhaps wannabes).

    "Judging" from the pictures I've seen of the four of them, they were a bunch of punk assed kids who got into an altercation that ended very, very badly for all four of them.

    Saturday, the murderer was holed up in his apartment a couple of blocks from where my daughter lives. Some people known to me personally lived in the complex directly across from the perp. (the friend was posting on face book as tear gas grenades and flash-bangs were shot through the bad guy's window).

    The other and father of the perp turned him in. They called the cops and told them he was at home.

    I guess I'm curious how forcing someone to follow some particular religious precepts would have prevented this...

    Would religion have stopped any of the three from dying? Would it have prevented the one from killing them?

    Has being religious, or being a Priest stopped priests from doing bad things to little boys?

    (Yes, sure there were not many, but there were SOME and the lives of those little boys were ruined....)
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    time check

    how could china enjoy a free lunch from America, after all...

    it's become a parodoxical, ¿parisitical? lunch?

    If they get parasites, they won't give a shit either, like me.

    LAKE SELIGER, Russia (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin accused the United States Monday of living beyond its means "like a parasite" on the global economy and said dollar dominance was a threat to the financial markets.
    "They are living beyond their means and shifting a part of the weight of their problems to the world economy," Putin told the pro-Kremlin youth group Nashi while touring its lakeside summer camp some five hours drive north of Moscow.



    Sirach 19, 20.

    canto XXV Dante

    from purgatory, the lustful... "open your breast to the truth which follows and know that as soon as the articulations in the brain are perfected in the embryo, the first Mover turns to it, happy...."
    Shema Israel

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Michael, since I thought these thoughts, then I am most likely very wrong in my thinking.

    After all, no one is supposed to be able to understand the absolute truth.

    Rick,

    No, religion would not have--and will not--stop anything.

    The idea behind religion--IMO--is to give humans thought to be something else other than a higher form of a primate. In other words, religion offers another avenue to think before acting.

    When religion is reduced to a list of "have-to" requirements, it really has become something less than religion. Now, a person does not have to think. They simply obey like some kind of weirdly programmed autobots.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    This is as good a philosophical discussion about the things of God and faith as I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately my wife was hospitalized over the past four days and I’ve fallen behind in any responses I may have posted. I’ll be brief and offer some comments for further review, pondering or otherwise.


    Michael, as for the Catholic Church maintaining that it is the true Bride of Christ… I have but one question – Where did you get your information? I’m not deliberately trying to be controversial, but source data means a lot here. God’s revelation has come to us and is documented by His Word. You know as well as I that God’s Word (Scriptures) are inspired of the Holy Spirit. They are God-breathed. No other work of man can rightfully claim this significant characteristic. If God’s Word establishes the one and only Roman Catholic Church as the Bride of Christ as declared in the Book of Revelation, then you have a solid point. If it is not, then perhaps the concept s flawed as it may be one affirmed only by man himself.

    There is something very unique regarding the Christian faith. It is highly defensible if one takes the time to do the work. The following are but a few apologetics regarding Christianity for your further perusal:

    1. There has not been an archeological dig that has ever contradicted the historical accuracy of biblical texts.
    2. Christ fulfilled over 300 prophecies proven to have been written centuries before His coming. The probability that one man could fulfill only eight of these prophecies is 1 x 10 to the 28th power. Christ fulfilled them all. You do the math.
    3. The Book of Daniel, Chapter 9, written roughly 600 years BC predicts the coming of the Messiah to the day.
    4. Irreducible complexity


    As for faith (or religion) being personal. I couldn’t agree more… to a point. God is a personal God who has revealed Himself to each of us individually in scripture and through trials and life experiences. Keep in mind that relativism is an illogical line of thinking. If you extend the concept past an introductory statement, it very quickly loses all sense of reason.

    “People experience the intervention of God, angels, the Holy Spirit, and the like. Whether or not in an absolute universe such events happen or are "real" is moot. For the individual, "it" happened, and that should be the end of the matter.”

    No offense to Wallis, but this statement is illogical. If an event occurred as an experiential anomaly to an individual and cannot be substantiated in reality, it did not occur in reality. Do the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind actually have physicality or any substance whatsoever in reality? If a man states that he has the ability to fly like superman and decides to test his theory by leaping from the top of the Sears Tower, will he truly fly?

    My point is thus: God is real, the claims of the Bible are real. Test them against all known evidences and methodologies. What you uncover may surprise you.

    Rick is also correct. Religious entities have been forcing beliefs upon people since the beginning of time. This concept is absolutely antithetical to biblical teaching. All God requires of his followers is to proclaim, not to force. He is quite capable in His sovereignty to persuade people.

    Perhaps I have oversimplified. If so... my apologies.

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    Default Re: Chief Exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth Says Devil Is In The Vatican

    Sorry to hear about your Wife, MinuteMan. Hope she gets better soon.

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