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Thread: Socialism Viewed Positively By Americans

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    Default Socialism Viewed Positively By Americans

    Although capitalism/free enterprise is still the majority, at what point do we reach critical mass?

    Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans
    February 4, 2010

    PRINCETON, NJ -- More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of "socialism," while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives.



    "Socialism" was one of seven terms included in a Jan. 26-27 Gallup poll. Americans were asked to indicate whether their top-of-mind reactions to each were positive or negative. Respondents were not given explanations or descriptions of the terms.

    Americans are almost uniformly positive in their reactions to three terms: small business, free enterprise, and entrepreneurs. They are divided on big business and the federal government, with roughly as many Americans saying their view is positive as say it is negative. Americans are more positive than negative on capitalism (61% versus 33%) and more negative than positive on socialism (36% to 58%).



    Democrats and Republicans agree in their ratings of several of the terms, but differ significantly in their ratings of others -- in particular, capitalism, the federal government, and socialism.



    In similar fashion, there is little distinction across ideological groups -- conservatives, moderates, and liberals -- in the ratings of several of these terms, but more significant differences in response to others, such as big business, the federal government, and socialism.



    These differences will be discussed in the sections that follow.

    Socialism


    Socialism had the lowest percentage positive rating and the highest negative rating of any term tested. Still, more than a third of Americans say they have a positive image of socialism.

    Exactly how Americans define "socialism" or what exactly they think of when they hear the word is not known. The research simply measures Americans' reactions when a survey interviewer reads the word to them -- an exercise that helps shed light on connotations associated with this frequently used term.

    There are significant differences in reactions to "socialism" across ideological and partisan groups:

    * A majority of 53% of Democrats have a positive image of socialism, compared to 17% of Republicans.
    * Sixty-one percent of liberals say their image of socialism is positive, compared to 39% of moderates and 20% of conservatives.

    Capitalism


    "Capitalism," the word typically used to describe the United States' prevailing economic system, generates positive ratings from a majority of Americans, with a third saying their reaction is negative.

    As was the case with "socialism," there are differences across population segments.

    * Republicans are significantly more positive than Democrats in their reactions to "capitalism," although majorities of both groups have favorable opinions.
    * Opinions of the word by ideology are divided in an unusual, though modest, way. Conservatives have the highest positive image, followed by liberals. Moderates have somewhat lower positive ratings than either of these groups.

    One might expect those with negative attitudes toward capitalism to be more likely than others to have positive attitudes toward socialism. That is indeed the case, but the difference in positive attitudes toward socialism between those with positive and those with negative attitudes toward capitalism is fairly modest: 33% vs. 43%, respectively.

    Free Enterprise

    Eighty-six percent of respondents rated the term "free enterprise" positively, giving it substantially more positive ratings than "capitalism." Although in theory these two concepts are not precisely the same, they are in many ways functional equivalents. Yet, underscoring the conventional wisdom that words matter, the public clearly reacts differently to the two terms. Free enterprise as a concept rings more positively to the average American than does the term capitalism.

    Strongly positive ratings of free enterprise are generally uniform across both partisan groups, and across the three ideological groups.

    Small Business and Big Business


    "Small business" is the most positively rated term of the seven included in the list, with a nearly universal positive rating of 95%.

    In contrast, Americans were sharply divided when asked to react to the term "big business," with 49% of respondents rating the term positively and 49% negatively.

    This contrast in images, based on whether the adjective "small" or "big" is placed in front of "business," confirms a number of previous Gallup findings. Americans have a strong tendency to react positively to "small" and negatively to "big" when it describes business entities.

    There is remarkably little difference between Republicans and Democrats in their ratings of the images of small and big business. Both partisan groups are overwhelmingly positive about the former, and roughly half of both partisan groups rate the latter positively. The finding that Democrats and Republicans have roughly equal reactions to big business is significant given the usual assumption that Republicans are more sympathetic to large businesses and corporations than are Democrats. These data do not confirm that hypothesis at the rank-and-file level.

    All three ideological groups rate small business very positively.

    Big business is rated positively by 57% of conservatives. Less than half of both moderates (46%) and liberals (38%) have positive images of big business.

    Entrepreneurs

    Because "entrepreneurs" are usually by definition associated with start-ups of small businesses, it is not unexpected to find that the term generates nearly the same level of positive reaction as did the term small business.

    And, as was the case for small business, there is little distinction in ratings of entrepreneurs across partisan or ideological groups.

    The Federal Government

    Americans' reactions to the term "the federal government" are similar to those for "big business," with about half rating the term positively and half negatively. However, while there are only minimal partisan differences in reactions to "big business," there are substantial differences in reactions to the federal government, which may reflect the current partisan control of the White House and Congress.

    * Democrats are much more positive about the federal government than are Republicans.
    * Liberals are over twice as likely as conservatives to have a positive image of the federal government, with reactions of moderates in between those of these two groups.

    Bottom Line


    As most politicians and many in business have learned, the choice of words to describe a concept or a policy can often make a substantial difference in the public's reaction. The current research confirms that assumption.

    "Socialism" is not a completely negative term in today's America. About a third of Americans respond positively when they hear the term. Some of this reaction may reflect unusual or unclear understandings of what socialism means. Reaction to the term is not random, however, as attested by the finding that positive images are significantly differentiated by politics and ideology.

    It is apparent that "free enterprise" evokes more positive responses than "capitalism," despite the apparent similarity between the two terms.

    President Barack Obama made frequent positive references to small business in his recent State of the Union address, perhaps aware of the very positive associations Americans have with that term. In particular, this research underscores the fact that Americans' image of business can vary substantially, depending on whether it is described as small or big. Along these same lines, it is perhaps not surprising to find that entrepreneurs are held in high esteem by Americans.

    The finding that Americans have mixed reactions to the term "the federal government" is not new. Much previous research has shown that at this point in history, a majority of Americans are not enamored with the federal government, particularly the legislative branch.

    Survey Methods

    Results are based on telephone interviews with 972 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted Jan. 26-27, 2010. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of error is ±4 percentage points.

    Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones and cellular phones.

    In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    36% of the US Population is BRAINWASHED then
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    After reviewing the poll numbers for Democrats and Liberals, I suggest that a swift kick in the ass may do them a world of good. How could these people be so distant in their thinking from the method of governing the people of the US that was originally intended?

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Obama Seeks New Social Media Mouthpiece

    By Joshua Rhett Miller
    - FOXNews.com



    If you're "passionate about engaging millions" in advancing President Obama's agenda, the commander in chief has a job for you.

    Help wanted.

    Must tweet.

    If you're "passionate about engaging millions" in advancing President Obama's agenda, the commander in chief has a job for you.

    The Democratic National Committee and Organizing for America -- the successor organization to Obama for America -- are seeking a "social networks manager" to oversee Obama's accounts on Facebook, Twitter and MySpace. The ideal new hire, according to the official job description, will possess "strong, sharp and personable" writing skills, as well as the ability to craft messages that "move people to act" and managing multiple "complex" projects.

    Be prepared to lose some sleep: "Ready to work hard; this isn't a 9-5 sort of job," reads another job qualification.

    Candidates must also be willing to relocate to Washington, and preference will be given to those with experience in electoral campaigns and advocacy or nonprofit organizations.

    The president's next social network mouthpiece will have his -- or her -- hands full with Obama's 7.5 million-plus Facebook fans, 3.3 million Twitter followers and nearly 2 million MySpace friends. The White House, in contrast, has less than 500,000 Facebook fans.

    Recent posts to Obama's Facebook page have included well-wishes to Team USA in Vancouver and calls to "support candidates who fight" for health care reform.

    "An alarming new study shows that U.S. health care spending rose to an estimated $2.5 trillion in 2009 and is projected to nearly double by 2019," a Feb. 10 posting reads. "We can't kick this problem down the road for another decade -- or even another year."

    The starting salary for the position is unclear, as is the number of applications that have been received since the opening was posted late last week. Several messages to the DNC seeking comment Tuesday were not returned.

    Mia Cambronero, who currently holds the position, will step down by the end of the month from her "infamous job as 'Barack Obama's twitterer,'" according to an e-mail posted to a listserv. "We're looking for someone to start immediately," the posting read.

    Attempts to reach Cambronero, whose personal Facebook profile can be found here, were unsuccessful Tuesday. She formerly served as a fellow for the New Organizing Institute, a "progressive advocacy and campaign training program" that was established by the liberal political advocacy group MoveOn.org in November 2005. Cambronero graduated from Georgetown University in 2008, according to her profile.

    Judging from Cambronero's past, her successor would do well to write lefthanded.

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
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    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
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    until you’ll
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    like overripe fruit into our hands."



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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Looks like we might be up to 42%...

    42% Of Americans Attribute Communist Slogan To America's Founding Documents
    For Immediate Release: December 15, 2010
    Contact: Rachel Gillespie 703‐894‐1776, ext. 25

    42 Percent of Americans Attribute Communist Slogan to America’s Founding Documents


    Nationwide Survey Shows Stunning Knowledge Gaps about the Bill of Rights

    WASHINGTON, D.C – A recent national survey, sponsored by the Bill of Rights Institute and conducted online by Harris Interactive from December 1‐3, 2010, reveals alarming gaps in American adults’ knowledge of the country’s Founding documents. American adults selected the correct answer 32 percent of the time, on average, on questions about the Bill of Rights and the freedoms it protects and American government.

    42 percent of American adults incorrectly chose one of America’s Founding documents as the source of Karl Marx’s exposition of Communism, ʺfrom each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.ʺ Of these incorrect answers, the most commonly chosen was the Bill of Rights.

    “It is imperative that Americans understand how vital the Bill of Rights is to the future of our country,” said Dr. Jason Ross, Vice President of Education Programs at the Bill of Rights Institute. “With a better understanding of our Founding documents, Americans can see how much our experiment in self‐government depends on the ideas of the Founders and why America has been an example of freedom up to this point.”

    Other noteworthy findings from the poll include the following:

    • 60 percent of American adults did not correctly identify the principle that our government’s powers are derived from the people as an attribute that makes America unique.
    • 55 percent of American adults did not recognize that “education” is not a First Amendment right.
    • Nearly 1 in 10 American adults do not realize that the right to petition our government is a freedom guaranteed in the First Amendment.
    • Only 20 percent of American adults correctly selected the Tenth Amendment as the Amendment that reserves powers to the states and the people.

    “Young people,” said Dr. Ross, “can grasp these concepts that are so very critical to good citizenship, if they are given the right tools, which we at the Institute believe are the Founding documents themselves, together with appropriate supporting materials.” Ross noted that the Bill of Rights Institute focuses on providing top‐quality educational curricula and seminars, focused on the Founding documents, to teachers and students across America.

    The results of this survey are serving as the impetus for the Bill of Rights Institute’s launch of a new initiative to educate Americans about the freedoms embodied in the first 10 Amendments.

    Included in the new educational initiative is the launch of a new website, www.BillofRightsDay.com, focused on the text of the first 10 Amendments, landmark Supreme Court cases and decisions based on those Amendments, and various games and resources for students and educators.

    This survey was conducted online within the United States by Harris Interactive on behalf of The Bill of Rights Institute from December 1‐3, 2010 among 2,159 adults ages 18 and older. This online survey is not based on a probability sample and therefore no estimate of theoretical sampling error can be calculated. For complete survey methodology, including weighting
    variables, please contact Rachel Gillespie at 703‐894‐1776, ext. 25.

    For more information about the poll, or about the mission of the Bill of Rights Institute, visit www.BillofRightsInstitute.org.

    ###

    The Bill of Rights Institute, founded in 1999, is a nonprofit educational organization. The mission of the Bill of Rights Institute is to educate young people about the words and ideas of Americaʹs Founders, the liberties guaranteed in our Founding documents, and how our Founding principles continue to affect and shape a free society
    Dear God... What else can be said.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Socialism is always viewed highly by those that don't have to contribute to it.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Wait until they try to force me to do something else.

    I'm already fighting City Hall here over fucking "rain taxes".

    They can shove that right up their asses.

    And Global Warming bullshit too.

    Better yet, let me shove it up there FOR THEM.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by vector7 View Post
    Nikita Khruschev while visiting the United States in 1956 said to Vice President Nixon that his grandchildren would live under communism.

    Two months later while Nikita Khrushchev visited the United States he told U.S. Agriculture Secretary Ezra Taft Benson:

    “You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism. We won’t have to fight you. We’ll so weaken your economy until you’ll fall like overripe fruit into our hands.”

    Seeds sown by Communists over half a century ago has reaped a whirlwind Americans have yet to fathom.

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    It would be irresponsible and downright naive to think that the major communist powers ceased this strategy twenty years ago.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Americans Divided on Taxing the Rich to Redistribute Wealth
    Public is split over enacting heavy taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth

    June 2, 2011

    Americans break into two roughly evenly matched camps on the question of whether the government should enact heavy taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth in the U.S. Forty-seven percent believe the government should redistribute wealth in this way, while 49% disagree, similar to views Gallup found four years ago.



    Republicans and Democrats have sharply different reactions to the government's taking such an active role in equalizing economic outcomes. Seven in 10 Democrats believe the government should levy taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth, while an equal proportion of Republicans believe it should not. The slight majority of independents oppose this policy.

    The question also provokes different reactions from men compared with women, whites vs. nonwhites, and upper-income vs. lower-income Americans. Consistent with their more Democratic political orientation, women, nonwhites, and lower-income adults are all more supportive than their counterparts of government redistribution of wealth via taxes.



    These findings are from Gallup's 2011 Economics and Finance poll, conducted April 7-11.

    According to the same poll, the majority of Americans -- 57% -- believe money and wealth in the country should be more evenly distributed among a larger population. About a third -- 35% -- think the current distribution is fair. Americans were slightly less likely to believe the distribution of wealth was fair from 2003 to early 2008; however, the current level is about the average for the full trend since 1984.



    A different question probes Americans' perceptions about the number of rich people in the country, and finds the plurality -- 42% -- believing the current level is about right. However, consistent with every other time Gallup has asked this question since 1990, more believe there are too many rich people than too few, 31% vs. 21%.



    Again, perceptions about wealth are highly partisan, as the majority of Republicans say the number of rich people is about right (52%) and more say there are too few rather than too many (27% vs. 16%). Conversely, one-third (35%) of Democrats say the number of rich people is about right and, by 43% to 15%, more Democrats say there are too many rich people than too few.

    Bottom Line

    While a solid majority of Americans, 57%, believe money and wealth in the U.S. should be more evenly distributed among the people, fewer than half favor using the federal tax code to do so. The fault line in these views is distinctly partisan, with most Democrats championing redistribution and most Republicans opposing it.

    However, these are philosophical views. In practical terms, as government programs and budgets sink in red ink, unions and Democratic leaders at the federal level and in the states are calling for higher taxes on wealthy Americans specifically to help restore fiscal balance and stabilize entitlement programs. Gallup polling last year found two-thirds of Americans in favor of the wealthy paying higher Social Security taxes as a way to help keep that system solvent. Clearly, these attitudes are complex, and support for "taxing the rich" can run higher if framed in the context of specific benefits. Underneath it all, Americans are not "anti-rich," because most believe the country has either the right amount of or too few rich people.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans





    One good thing about hitting 30, I'm no longer in that group of apparently really stupid people.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Death to Socialism.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    I was listening to Mark Levin's show and Brian Sussman was filling in for him.

    He made an interesting and rather scary point that jives quite well with the topic of this thread.

    He wondered if future generations of voters are already corrupted. His point was that kids who were 18 this election were 14 when Obama was first elected and thus more heavily swayed to thinking this overbearing government is not just acceptable but normal. He also said that more importantly come 2016 kids who will be 18 then will have been just 10 and in their formative years when Obama took office. They will not really personally know of any other type of government from personal experience and will not have knowledge of what government should be as it certainly isn't being taught in schools.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans


    Student to Rand Paul: I Don't Want Government To Leave Me Alone

    April 10, 2013



    During the Q&A session after Sen. Rand Paul’s speech Wednesday at Howard University, one student explained that he was not a fan of his view of government.

    “You say you want to provide a government that leaves us alone; quite frankly, I don’t want that,” the student said. “I want a government that is going to help me.”

    The student insisted that he wanted assistance for his college education and asked if Rand Paul supported a culture change within the nation.

    “Do you, Sen. Rand Paul, have a formulated solution to come up with new American values so that the citizens of this nation have a worth more than dead presidents and Ben Franklin?”

    Paul responded that he believed that government should allow people to believe whatever they wanted, and clarified that he didn’t believe in the absence of government.

    The Kentucky Republican added that he supported the idea of student loans from the government but added that the federal government shouldn’t be allowed to spend more money than it takes in.

    “I think ‘leave me alone’ is a good mantra for government because government has to be involved in certain things but there are many things that we can leave government out of,” Paul concluded.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Government. LEAVE ME ALONE. Stop bothering me. Leave my rights alone. If I want help, I'll ask my family, normally I will help myself.

    If students "want help from the government" it's because they've been brainwashed.

    Time to kill off America folks.

    It's done.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans


    Far-Left Website Contributor Finally Comes Out and Says It: ‘Why You’re Wrong About Communism’

    February 4, 2014

    Far-left website Salon published a stunning defense of communism on Sunday, revealing what it claims are seven “huge misconceptions” about communism and capitalism.

    Author Jesse Myerson pushed back at the claim that communism has killed as many as 110 million people. Using “The Five” host Greg Gutfeld as an example, Myerson sought to clarify details about the slaughter that occurred under Stalin and Mao:

    In declaring this, Gutfeld and his ilk insult the suffering of the millions of people who died under Stalin, Mao, and other 20th Century Communist dictators. Making up a big-sounding number of people and chalking their deaths up to some abstract “communism” is no way to enact a humanistic commitment to victims of human rights atrocities.

    For one thing, a large number of the people killed under Soviet communism weren’t the kulaks everyone pretends to care about but themselves communists. Stalin, in his paranoid cruelty, not only had Russian revolutionary leaders assassinated and executed, but indeed exterminated entire communist parties. These people weren’t resisting having their property collectivized; they were committed to collectivizing property. It is also worth remembering that the Soviets had to fight a revolutionary war – against, among others, the US – which, as the American Revolution is enough to show, doesn’t mainly consist of group hugs. They also faced (and heroically defeated) the Nazis, who were not an ocean away, but right on their doorstep.

    Additionally, Myerson said that the Great Chinese Famine was the most “horrifying episode in 20th century official communism.” However, the main reason for the deaths of tens of millions of people was Mao’s “Great Leap Forward.” It was a “disastrous combination of applied pseudoscience, stat-juking, and political persecution designed to transform China into an industrial superpower in the blink of an eye.”

    So why are the deaths under the Great Chinese Famine not fully the fault of policies implemented under communism?

    “Famine is not a uniquely ‘left-wing’ problem,” Myerson wrote.

    Another popular “misconception” many people have is the assumption that “21st century American communism would resemble 20th century Soviet and Chinese horrors,” the article stated.

    Communism is more of an “aspiration, not an immediately achievable state,” Myerson wrote. “It, like democracy and libertarianism, is utopian in that it constantly strives toward an ideal, in its case the non-ownership of everything and the treatment of everything – including culture, people’s time, the very act of caring, and so forth – as dignified and inherently valuable rather than as commodities that can be priced for exchange.”

    Because of the various technological and social advances made in the last century, “we could expect an approach to communism beginning here and now to be far more open, humane, democratic, participatory and egalitarian than the Russian and Chinese attempts managed.”

    Here’s to wishful thinking that communism in America wouldn’t end as bloody and tragically as it has in every single instance throughout history?

    If you aren’t too frustrated already, read the rest of Myerson’s defense of communism and criticism of capitalism here.

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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    In declaring this, Gutfeld and his ilk insult the suffering of the millions of people who died under Stalin, Mao, and other 20th Century Communist dictators. Making up a big-sounding number of people and chalking their deaths up to some abstract “communism” is no way to enact a humanistic commitment to victims of human rights atrocities.

    For one thing, a large number of the people killed under Soviet communism weren’t the kulaks everyone pretends to care about but themselves communists. Stalin, in his paranoid cruelty, not only had Russian revolutionary leaders assassinated and executed, but indeed exterminated entire communist parties. These people weren’t resisting having their property collectivized; they were committed to collectivizing property. It is also worth remembering that the Soviets had to fight a revolutionary war – against, among others, the US – which, as the American Revolution is enough to show, doesn’t mainly consist of group hugs. They also faced (and heroically defeated) the Nazis, who were not an ocean away, but right on their doorstep.

    It is completely irrelevant to me WHO was killed by the Commies. The very FACT they were killed, and were part of the regime in and of itself speaks great volumes against Communism. When a left leaning rag or commentator is going to spin the piss out of the facts and downplay them to make it "not sound as bad as the other side makes them sound" this is a clear indication of the evil that resides in the brains of these people.

    The very idea of these idiots defending Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot sums this up nicely. The men and women who are indoctrinated into this Marxist thinking are quite literally brainwashed, and worse, they go ALONG with the idealism of Marxism, defend the deaths of millions as if it were "nothing at all", or "Our own People" being killed.

    How can ANYONE in their right MINDS believe that this won't end badly for everyone?

    “Famine is not a uniquely ‘left-wing’ problem,” Myerson wrote.
    REALLY? Look at every incident of history. High handed tactics on the part of leaders who themselves are insulated "from the people" have resulted in almost ALL incidents of starvation. Look at AFRICA. The population of those countries are dangerous barbarians who love nothing better than to kill others they don't get along with, starve the population and keep their own military in power.

    North Korea, FULL of starving people. China, FULL of starving people (I've been there, I've SEEN IT FIRST HAND). Central and South America, FULL of starving people. CUBA, FULL OF STARVING PEOPLE. Been there, seen it, got the tee shirt folks. Communism "at it's finest".

    Another popular “misconception” many people have is the assumption that “21st century American communism would resemble 20th century Soviet and Chinese horrors,” the article stated.
    Misconception? LOL. When you have nothing to go on but historical records, it's difficult to call this a "misconception" at best. At worst it's a lie.

    Communism is more of an “aspiration, not an immediately achievable state,” Myerson wrote. “It, like democracy and libertarianism, is utopian in that it constantly strives toward an ideal, in its case the non-ownership of everything and the treatment of everything – including culture, people’s time, the very act of caring, and so forth – as dignified and inherently valuable rather than as commodities that can be priced for exchange.”
    REALLY? What a fucking liar!

    No Comunism is NOT an "aspiration". Communism has a definition and it's not a pretty one.

    com·mu·nism

    [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
    noun 1. a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

    2. ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

    3. ( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist Party.

    4. communalism.



    Origin:
    1835–45; < French communisme. See common, -ism

    Related forms an·ti·com·mu·nism, noun
    pro·com·mun·ism, noun, adjective

    No, to the dumb assed writer from Salon, and TO Salon - get off your damned high horse, asshole. Communism is EVIL, hateful, and it kills people. It takes from everyone to give to a few and no matter how "utopian" you want to make it sound, it ends up being the State verse everyone else.

    Grow up and join AMERICA. We won't allow Communism to take over. You WILL die trying. And we will kill you.

    Let's make this clear, I'm tired of pulling punches. Communists need to die.
    Libertatem Prius!


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  18. #18
    Senior Member Avvakum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    #2 and #3 are what I oppose;


    "2. ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

    3. ( initial capital letter ) the principles and practices of the Communist Party.
    "

    Without the missing ingredients of Freedom and Nonviolence, all these revolutionary attempts to overthrow The State and replace it with a so-called 'temporary' Dictatorship of the Proletariat are doomed to failure. But I think the leaders of these Marxist parties know that in their hearts anyway-they just want to be Red Fascist Dictators, they arent real 'Communists' but are really State Capitalists. Bakunin once said of the Marxists that they have; "One foot in the Revolution and one foot in the Bank".
    "God's an old hand at miracles, he brings us from nonexistence to life. And surely he will resurrect all human flesh on the last day in the twinkling of an eye. But who can comprehend this? For God is this: he creates the new and renews the old. Glory be to him in all things!" Archpriest Avvakum

  19. #19
    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    Mark Levin was discussing this piece on his show. Since it is from Salon it is, no surprise, pro Marx.


    Believe It Or Not: Karl Marx Is Making A Comeback

    It's true. The "Communist Manifesto" co-author has gotten a second life — and he has some advice for progressives

    June 22, 2014

    Karl Marx is on fire right now. More than a century after his death, the co-author of “The Communist Manifesto” still has the honor of being the first smear against ideas slightly to the left of Hillary Clinton. (See: Thomas Piketty.) Marx also graced the cover of the National Review as recently ast last month. Few other thinkers, and certainly few non-religious figures, can claim the honor of being so widely misappropriated by the political rearguard. But, while most people consider Marx only as a sort of intellectual boogeyman, the manifestation of everything evil on the left, he has much to offer a left increasingly divorced from the working class.

    To that end, Marx actually is enjoying something of a renaissance on the left these days. Jacobin, a socialist publication that publishes many Marxist thinkers, was profiled by the the New York Times and boasts Bob Herbert as a contributor. Benjamin Kunkel’s recent compilation of essays, “Utopia or Bust,” earned that author a profile in New York magazine, and the title “The Lena Dunham of Literature.” And that’s not even to mention Thomas Piketty’s blockbuster work, “Capital in the 21st Century,” whichharkens back to Marx’s multi-volume magnum opus, “Das Kapital.” The wave has even extended so far as Capitol Hill, where Sen. Bernie Sanders, D- Vermont, openly calls himself a “democratic socialist.”

    Marx most certainly wasn’t right about everything, but he wasn’t wrong about as much as people think. A revival of his thought is good news for progressive America. It can give the left fresh arguments that were previously forgotten to history, and new organizing strategies that they’ve long since abandoned.

    * * *

    The first problem with the left that Marx might have noted is the wholesale abandonment of the working class. As Perry Anderson points out in his essay, “Considerations on Western Marxism,”

    The extreme difficulty of language of much of Western Marxism in the twentieth century was never controlled by the tension of a direct or active relationship to a proletarian audience.

    Increasingly, the left is dominated by what the German Marxist Rosa Luxemburg might call Kathedersozialisten – or “professorial socialists.” These thinkers, frequently drenched in academese, talk and debate in a way almost entirely designed to alienate anyone who does not already accept their conclusions. The professorial left seems to have innumerable answers for those wondering what Lacanian psychoanalysis has to offer us, but can give us little guidance as to whether the Working Families Party should support Cuomo or run its own candidate.

    “Manifesto” co-author Friedrich Engels’s “The Condition of the Working Class in England” was a pioneering study of the working class. He and Marx both clearly saw the working class as the means to political power — and viewed persuading them as the most important task the left faced. When Maurice Lachatre asked Marx if he would be willing to serialize “Das Kapital,” Marx replied, “In this form the book will be more accessible to the working-class, a consideration which to me outweighs everything else.” One struggles, however, to imagine a latter-day Marxist champion like Theodor W. Adorno writing those words. The left abandoned the working class and the working class then abandoned the left. That needs to change.

    Marx and Engels also offer the left a new way to discuss ideology. In his brilliant collection, “The Agony of the American Left,” Marx(ish) historian Christopher Lasch writes,

    The Marxian tradition of social thought has always attached great importance to the way in which class interest takes on the quality of objective reality… Lacking an awareness of the human capacity for collective self-deception, the populists tended to postulate conspiratorial explanations of history.

    Lasch is arguing that, to a large extent, humans are biased toward the state of affairs that currently exists and then work backwards to justify it to themselves. That is, we’re more likely to embrace a deeply unjust economic system, simply because it’s the one we’ve always known. A recent study bears this out, finding that market competition serves to psychologically legitimize inequalities that would otherwise be considered unjust. Because many on the left, especially populists, do not understand ideology, they often write and argue as though the entire American political system is controlled by a small cabal of business or political leaders conspiring to fool the masses.

    The implications of ideology are important and numerous. The left must not fall into the trap of believing that all Americans actually do share our views, but that a conspiracy of the wealthy, or the power of GOP framing, or the influence of money are preventing us from succeeding. To some extent, these things may indeed harm the left, but widespread ideology — the automatic assumption of capitalism’s unmitigated merit, for example — is just as big a problem. We must win the war of ideas before we can win the war of democracy.

    The great Italian politician Antonio Gramsci was well aware of the lure of such cabalistic conspiracies, but also of their limitations, and his idea about cultural hegemony led him to advocate for educating the working class. This task is difficult, but it will lead to more substantial progress than simply explaining away failures by complaining about the influence of the wealthy. The rich certainly have different interests than the rest of us, but Gilens and Page note in an often overlooked passage of their oft-cited paper on “American oligarchy,”

    The preferences of average citizens are positively and fairly highly correlated, across issues, with the preferences of economic elites.

    Groups like the Chamber of Commerce and other business-oriented organizations, on the other hand, have preferences that do not correlate with the interests of the middle class. But even with that caveat, the left should not overstate the extent to which Americans agree with the leftist economic critique. In an apt description of the American ideology, John Steinbeck noted, “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

    Finally, Marx’s moral critique of capitalism and markets has never been fully comprehended or considered by anyone (other than the socialists, of course) but the most ardent libertarians and a strain of thinkers broadly called communitarians. Broadly speaking, Marx’s critique of capitalism resembles the Catholic church’s critique: That by relying on greed and self-interest, markets degrade humans and encourage our worst impulses. Marx quotes Shakespeare’s “Timon of Athens”:

    This yellow slave
    Will knit and break religions, bless the accursed;
    Make the hoar leprosy adored, place thieves
    And give them title, knee and approbation
    With senators on the bench

    Marx writes, riffing off of Shakespeare, “I am bad, dishonest, unscrupulous, stupid; but money is honoured and therefore so is its possessors. Money is the supreme good, therefore its possessor is good.” Jesus warned that the love of money is the root of all evil. This fact seems self-evident. Religious critics of capitalism have noted this core delusion for decades. Economist and Catholic E. F. Schumacher writes,

    Call a thing immoral or ugly, soul-destroying or a degradation to man, a peril to the peace of the world or to the well-being of future generations: as long as you have not shown it to be ‘uneconomic’ you have not really questioned its right to exist, grow, and prosper.

    With the exception of libertarians, who have tried to turn the immorality of capitalism into a sort of perverse morality (“greed is good”), most politicians and economists are entirely unconcerned with the fact that capitalism is based on a collective drawing upon our deepest desire: to exploit.

    The underlying logic of capitalism is that if we all take our most primordial impulses and mix them up in the magical mechanism called “markets,” we are left with progress. Recent history suggests we may be left with only more ugliness. As G. A. Cohen writes, “the immediate motive to productive activity in a market society is (not always but) typically some mixture of greed and fear.” The participants in market transactions are not interested in fulfilling human needs — they are interested in making a profit. Fulfilling human needs is one way to make a profit — exploitation, the creation of desire through advertising ordownright fraud are others. Human progress is an ancillary consideration, individual profit is the goal. Today, speaking in moral terms is not incredibly popular — inequality is seen not as a moral issue in which a small class has a dangerous amount of power, but instead as an inefficiency to be corrected with a technocratic policy.

    We don’t know for certain what Marx would say about the modern left. Its radicals often foster a poisonous aversion to pragmatism in favor of pious purity, its politicians are guilty of wholesale abandonment of the working class, and many of its leading thinkers have succumbed to a dreadful technocratism. Marx failed to account for the adaptability of capitalism and left little in the way of alternatives. In the end, this void was filled by murderers and fools. Marx, a deeply humanistic thinker, would certainly have abhorred the violence in his name some half a century after his death. But rational people do not blame Christ for the Crusades, nor Muhammad for 9/11 nor Nietzsche for the Holocaust. The taboo of Marx has prevented the left from learning his most important lesson; in the words of Gil Scott-Heron, “the revolution will not be televised.”

  20. #20
    Expatriate American Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Socialism Viewed Positively by 36% of Americans

    I'd like to point something out. I'm reading Mitchner's "Caribbean". One of the chapters/stories is directly about the fall of France, the beheading of all the "capitalists", rich, the king, queen, leaders, clergy, nuns and anyone who opposed the Leftists/Progressive/Liberals (They were called Liberals). Their entire PREMISE was to destroy God, to kill the Virgin Mary, Christ, God, to take religion OUT of the lives of everyone.

    There's a reason I bring this up here. Basically the fall of feudal society in France, and eventually most other countries stemmed directly from the Marxists of France - while they weren't CALLED Marxists yet (he wasn't born until the 1800s) the premise of the Revolution was what he based his own work upon. The French Revolution took place in 1779-1789, Marx formed his own opinions in Paris in 1849(ish).

    Point to all this being that America is headed down this road.

    As Male is wont to say, "They will be the first ones lined up against the wall and shot" when it happens here, if the Marxists win. And some of them will.

    Even Robespierre himself was executed.... as were most of the Jacobins later.

    At their height in 1793-94, the club leaders were the most radical and egalitarian group in the Revolution. Led by Maximilien de Robespierre (1758-1794), they controlled the government from June 1793 to July 1794, passed a great deal of radical legislation, and hunted down and executed their opponents in the Reign of Terror.
    Libertatem Prius!


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