Quantum Theory

[American Patriot]

I suggest, strongly, that each of you spend some time reading up on physics, more specifically quantum theory.

In fact, I'll highly recommend a book to each of you in the regard to "supreme beings".... Michio Kaku's "Physic of the Impossible".

No - he isn't against religion or Supreme Beings - but he certainly will give you something to think about it.

Prayer seems to work.

But - I doubt we're going to be rescued by anyone other than ourselves.

[zenbudda]

I suggest, strongly, that each of you spend some time reading up on physics, more specifically quantum theory.

In fact, I'll highly recommend a book to each of you in the regard to "supreme beings".... Michio Kaku's "Physic of the Impossible".

No - he isn't against religion or Supreme Beings - but he certainly will give you something to think about it.

Prayer seems to work.

But - I doubt we're going to be rescued by anyone other than ourselves.

The ability to collapse probability waves is very real. I know some of you don't like tiger woods but even he says that sometimes it's as if his swing has nothing to do where the ball goes and it's his entire will that makes it go where he wants it (especially when putting). this phenomenon is known as "being in the zone" to sports professionals. i've experienced it several times myself but it is becoming less and less these days. :-)

[zenbudda]

We are kind of getting off topic, but, since quantum theory is being discussed, i felt it was prudent to mention that there is no evidence to support the theory that events on a quantum level happen on an atomic, molecular or otherwise macroscopic level (other than collapsing probability waves, which is really spooky).

here are some really cool presentations on how the wave/particle theory really plays with our heads:

http://quantumiscool1.ytmnd.com
http://quantamiscool2.ytmnd.com
http://yqpic3.ytmnd.com
http://wqpic4.ytmnd.com

The guy who created them studied at Texas A&M. It starts out really basic and by the 4th one really blows your mind. Also, if you don't like trance music, turn your volume down. to me, it fits the presentation.

[zenbudda]

At atomic level quantum effects is about 1percent.

It effect macroscopic level in this way:

In my brain when i take a decision exact position of atoms effects my decision.

It can be a life decision and 1 percent of uncertainly multipled by billions of atoms in my brain...imagine.

I know i am out of topic;science and tech forum is more suitable.

You know... i am busy now;i am "fighting" with another user in another forum,for similar topic.

If you want to take a look here's the links:
http://communities.anomalies.net/for...50125/fpart/87

http://communities.anomalies.net/for...50125/fpart/88

http://communities.anomalies.net/for...50125/fpart/89

So your conjecture is that quantum physics impacts our decision making?

[American Patriot]

Peterle you realize that Anomalies was our original site right?

Nearly everyone here was once an Anomalies visitor, and most of the mods here were moderators (or admins) over there and most still are.

LOL

So you're arguing with Darby? LOL

[American Patriot]

WOW

Yes i know Anomalies is related with Transasianaxis...

You are telling me Zenbudda is Mr.Darby...

I was "fighting" with Mr.P

No, I did no such thing.

I said that because you QUOTED Darby. I didn't suggest any such thing, I think you misunderstood me.

[zenbudda]

Not only impacts decision making but make us free to take decision.

If all is determined than no free decisions are allowed.

so your stance is that one's personal and unique perceptions (using his/her senses) dictates one's reality? let's take your statement regarding "decision". if i decide that i am a bar of gold, does that make me a bar of gold to everyone? does it make me a bar of gold to myself? is the act of deciding that i am a bar of gold considered free decision? if so, then "decisions" are free but "something else" dictates whether i "actually am" a bar of gold. in this case, free decision is an illusion of control because regardless if i decide to "be" a bar of gold, i am not a bar of gold, therefore i do not have the free will to be a bar of gold. i hope that makes sense.

my point behind asking you the question the way i did was to draw out the fact that simple observation at a quantum level actually changes outcomes. however, there is no current scientific fact that simply observing an object that contains billions of atomic particles has any affect on that object. all observation can do on "our" level is persuade something to do something it "could possibly" already do. with correct "persuasion" we can mold the possibilities an object to be in balance with what we want the object to do (or not do). ie. hitting a curveball hard enough, at the right angle, with the right timing, can cause the ball to go over the fence.

"Determined" means that knowing all atoms positions and speed and knowing all chemichal-laws (and phiscal-laws) is possible to know what will happen next without indeterminations.

(No matter how powerful must be a computer to manage all atoms positions and speeds!The principle is important;it is possible.)

this if very possible and has already been done with the following experiment (but ONLY at a quantum level):

http://wqpic4.ytmnd.com/

Quantum-theory introduces a "indetermination-principle".

Determinism is a phylosofical view:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

Uncorrect in light of Quantum-theory and indetermination-principle:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

Yep, eletrical engineers have to deal with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal all the time when it comes to computers. Dated an engineer that works for Dell and was quite impressed with her ability to talk about such things. Even the Star Trek Next Generation writers got it correct when they used Heisenberg Compensators on their transporters.

[American Patriot]

Yep, eletrical engineers have to deal with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal all the time when it comes to computers. Dated an engineer that works for Dell and was quite impressed with her ability to talk about such things. Even the Star Trek Next Generation writers got it correct when they used Heisenberg Compensators on their transporters.

No, actually, they did NOT get it right...

In reality they got it "right" only insofar as the Principle was concerned and obviously they knew there would be a problem with being able to transport a human body made up of billions of atoms.

They threw it in to compensate for the lack of compensation. lol

Speaking of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle... how did we go to this from the original topic? :LOL!

[zenbudda]

(we are way off topic and i have no problem moving this discussion to it's own thread).

peterle,

i think i understand your position now. you are saying that quantum theory provides proof that free will exists (in lieu of pre-determination).

then if i understand you correctly, i propose a twist for you: what if pre-determination gives you multiple choices? in other words, god put's us in a box. we are free to move around in the box, but are not allowed to go outside the box. we have the illusion of having free will, but are also confined to that box.

let me expand "my unifying theory". the box is our body. our soul is inside the box (or body). if you don't like the word soul, then call it energy. our soul interacts with "reality" according to our senses. our soul comes from a reality not much unlike quantum reality: pure potential. however, the soul is in a box, a sort of limited reality. it can only perceive this reality within the box's five openings (sight, sound, touch, taste and smell). any of these openings can be closed but that does not change the fact that the soul is in a box and outside of that box is pure reality. the 5 openings in that box may not be able to "detect" or "observe" different aspects of that reality, but those different aspects still exist. "i believe" those senses stimulate an emotional response within the box. the soul needs and desires this emotional response which is why it inhabits the box. "i believe" this soul/energy is actually a very tiny piece of a larger soul/energy. this larger soul/energy desires to experience all that it can experience, but it can't experience emotion because it cannon separate itself from the rest of the universe. why? just following on this: if god is EVERYTHING, how can it distinguish itself from everything? if god is everything, then god, in of itself, is not unique! just think about it. you're floating in space, as energy. in fact, you are beyond that! you can't even float in space because you ARE space. all you have is thought/being and no physical form to experience the universe/reality. so if "everything you are is all that is", how can you experience anything else but yourself? first, you break yourself up into peices so that each piece can identify itself from the other pieces (individuality). but now these pieces are still just like they were before they split up. they have the same "properties". it's like having a planet filled with nothing but your clones. life would be dull after a while. BUT, if you give each piece a filter that will limit what each piece can perceive, then certain concepts start to come into existance: me, you, her, him, it, space, time, dimensions, joy, pain, life, death. so within itself, it allows its different aspects of itself to express that aspect's being. but it can only do so if has the proper "environment" (a box) to "observe" (using the holes in the box) itself as experiencing this reality.

doesn't it even say in the christian bible that god made us in his image? what i described above is not much unlike people having children and experiencing their child's growth. that experience is reinforcing the reality that exists outside the box. we as people create more boxes so that the higher being of ourselves (the one we are all a part of and belong to) can continue to experience more of itself within a limited reality. limitless reality does not stimulate an emotional response (think of God Mode in a video game) therefore reality has to be limited in certain ways in order to create the possibility of achievement, failure, pleasure, pain, love, hate....

all of this from quantum physics. lol. btw, i understand that none of what i just said is proveable. that's why i said "i believe".

[Ryan Ruck]

You guys want me to split your quantum theory discussion off and make a thread in the Science forum?

[Ryan Ruck]

Here's the new thread!

And yet in an alternate universe, I allowed the old one to continue... And in another alternate universe, the original thread never existed.. And in another alternate universe, this site never existed...

[American Patriot]

Damn it, Ryan... you showed that I was the Evil Off-Topic-Pusher! Grrrr

LOL

[Ryan Ruck]

And in another universe you weren't!

[American Patriot]

Absolutely... maybe. In another Universe I'm the Grand Overlord of Time. But, you know.... I might have to become my own minion there, since I don't like what this life is throwing at us!

Or something.

[American Patriot]

In another Universe, Peterle, it is not only possible it is happening all the time.



In fact, since I am usually in contact with several other universes at once (you think the internet is information overload? Wait til you trying quantum communication through tachyon beams to dimensionally split, sometimes fractured muliverse locations far removed from here) I can tell you that in one place, you too are an Overlord (Just not in MY Universe!)

lol

Something really funny is happening though. I had a lawn mower blow up, then a microwave. I replaced the microwave and today spent 150 bucks on a lawn mower. But, you know, I don't think it's the electronics that's weird, I think it might be the beer.... lol

[American Patriot]

Sorry, I think the thread just died.

Psychiatric nonsense is just that. It's neither science nor medicine. It is a mystical way of dealing with humans who have mental issues.

I don't believe in psychology.

[American Patriot]

LOL. Psychology is a load of mumbo jumbo. Sure, you might be able to profile someone using it, and you might even be able to diagnose someone with a mental disease....

But tell me, who makes up these diseases? Where do they come from? Why are no two sets of diagnoses the same? What the hell is a schizophrenic? (definition of schizophrenia: any of several psychotic disorders characterized by distortions of reality and disturbances of thought and language and withdrawal from social contact)

Give me a break. Any of SEVERAL? Come on. It's a way to categorize people aren't the same as everyone else! That's my point.

I don't care much what the CIA says except for certain regulations I have to follow, otherwise, they should stick to things like finding spies in this country and counter intelligence. Other than that, get the hell out of peoples' minds.

[American Patriot]

His work has been influential not only in psychology, but in religion and literature as well.

Jung was a kook, by the way. Oh, sorry, that's psychology.

When material is taken from a pseudoscience like psychology and used in the realm of religion (which isn't all there to begin with) you have to wonder where the really kookism lies.

I think it lies in the lies of those who claim to be Doctors of Psychiatry and Psychology!

[American Patriot]

I am pretty sure that the CIA consists of many, many people in many disciplines... In fact, I'm 100% sure of it.

CIA is a big, big place, with many many people. They do a lot of jobs. They have more people there training in accounting than they actually have "spies". It's the nature of the beast and intelligence collection, Peterle. If you can't PAY for your intelligence, you steal it. haha

There are analysts, and accountants, computer geeks and donut junkies as well as radio guys and just, plain old, ordinary janitors. There are probably a few trained in psychology - but psychological warfare is restricted to a few special units of the military and CIA (among others).

As for the rest of it - it's still bullshit.

[American Patriot]

That's because they don't know how to write tests. lol