Fact or Fiction? - Bohemian Grove

[RememberCuba94]

I'm sure most of you guys of have heard about the Bohemian Grove. Maybe you've seen that documentary made by Alex Jones filming an "occultic ritual" in there. If you haven't, Bohemian Grove is a location in California (I think) whose members are some of the top elites of the planet. Many presidents have had membership there. My question is, is the whole occult thing in Bohemian Grove real, or is it disinformation?

[American Patriot]

It's utter bullshit, and anything associated with Jones is utter bullshit.

The occult? So what if people want to believe in that crap anyway? Witches? Ghosts? Gobblins? Stuff of mythology.

Magic? It's not any more real than alien abductions are.

[Luke]

I was abducted by aliens last weekend. they brought me home when the tequila ran out.

Come to think of it, they may have been Illumanti. Things got a little fuzzy towards the bottom of the bottle.

Alex Jones is crazy as a loon. Not everything you read on the internet is true. Oddly, this site may be the exception to the rule.

[Backstop]

Alex Jones is FOS.

Oh wait; I already said that: Alex Jones Is FOS

No, I don't believe in any Bohemian Grove.

Sounds like a cool name for a beer, though.

[RememberCuba94]

It's utter bullshit, and anything associated with Jones is utter bullshit.

The occult? So what if people want to believe in that crap anyway? Witches? Ghosts? Gobblins? Stuff of mythology.

Magic? It's not any more real than alien abductions are.

Is there any proof of that? Not the Alex Jones part. The "Bohemian-Grove-Is-BS" part. I know Alex Jones is full of it.

[RememberCuba94]

Bohemian Grove is an actual place. The tentative truth in question is whether or not they actually practice the occult.

[zenbudda]

bohemian grove? real.
occult practices? probably real.
world control and domination? even if i said yes or no, i have no proof.

[Ryan Ruck]

I suspect its a real place and a place where the rich and famous get to goof off. After all, rich people are people too. All the rumors are probably from people jealous they couldn't join in on the fun.

When I win the lottery and get invited because I'm rich, I'll let you all know what's up!

[zenbudda]

lol ryan. when you do, can you help me open a bank and provide security?

[zenbudda]

i'll add this additional conversation piece. if i had the clout and the money, i could definately sway even the most powerful economies. i could have people elected in certain countries. i could fund certain political groups to ensure my political and economic opinions are carried out.

if i could, why couldn't someone else? this logic doesn't guarantee that someone IS doing this. but i bet these guys/gals do meet up and say "hey, the founder of facebook isn't on our team. let's cook up some bad press for him".

[Ryan Ruck]

i'll add this additional conversation piece. if i had the clout and the money, i could definately sway even the most powerful economies. i could have people elected in certain countries. i could fund certain political groups to ensure my political and economic opinions are carried out.

Why yes... Yes, you could.

[American Patriot]

Is there any proof of that? Not the Alex Jones part. The "Bohemian-Grove-Is-BS" part. I know Alex Jones is full of it.

Ummm... it doesn't work that way son.

You present the evidence that it IS true.

I don't present evidence that it's false.

Need to get your facts and data together if you're going to have a conversation here. Trust me... if you don't know what you're talking about, or it's all based on the nonsense you read on the internet... you will lose the debate quickly.

[American Patriot]

i'll add this additional conversation piece. if i had the clout and the money, i could definately sway even the most powerful economies. i could have people elected in certain countries. i could fund certain political groups to ensure my political and economic opinions are carried out.

if i could, why couldn't someone else? this logic doesn't guarantee that someone IS doing this. but i bet these guys/gals do meet up and say "hey, the founder of facebook isn't on our team. let's cook up some bad press for him".

Soros.... to name one, can and does.

Does he control the world? Hell no.

Bill Gates could. His net worth is more than most countries' net worth.

Does he control the world? Close. Everyone uses Microsoft (expect those of us who dont - and when those of us who don't have to, we use pirated software LOL!)

[zenbudda]

i would venture to guess that rupert murdoch has equivical powers of soros. interesting . they are both...well...i'll let you guys make the connection.

[RememberCuba94]

Ummm... it doesn't work that way son.

You present the evidence that it IS true.

I don't present evidence that it's false.

Need to get your facts and data together if you're going to have a conversation here. Trust me... if you don't know what you're talking about, or it's all based on the nonsense you read on the internet... you will lose the debate quickly.

Oh, I'm not trying to prove it's true. I'm on the fence in this particular issue. I used to believe it, and I am not so sure anymore. I know enough reliable evidence that it exists, but not enough to prove that they are doing occult practices in the grove. Heaven knows I don't trust Alex Jones anymore. Basically, I want to hear the other side before I make a conclusion on the grove.

By the way, I'm a girl.

[American Patriot]

Oh, I'm not trying to prove it's true. I'm on the fence in this particular issue. I used to believe it, and I am not so sure anymore. I know enough reliable evidence that it exists, but not enough to prove that they are doing occult practices in the grove. Heaven knows I don't trust Alex Jones anymore. Basically, I want to hear the other side before I make a conclusion on the grove.

By the way, I'm a girl.

Ok, you're talking a different story now then - YOU SHOULD be trying to prove it is true (or false). Sorry for calling you "Son" then

Here's the "facts" in facts.

What you have to do is take what you've read, what you think you know and where the source of the information is leaning. Then each piece of that information HAS to be ABSOLUTELY confirmed or not.

If you're "on the fence" then why are you on the fence? Examine that particular piece carefully. Ask questions about that piece. Find out what it is.

In this case it seems to be about the occult stuff. Let's talk about that second.

What is "occult" first off? The definition simply means "hidden from the light". (In astronomy it means when one darker body passes in front of a lighter body and momentarily occults it. Two stars in a binary system will do this for example.

In a "supernatural world" the "occult" is still "hidden from the light". It is simply "of or pertaining to the supernatural" and basically any practices of magic or magick (as you prefer). There are several forms of "magic". The normal kind you see on television or at magic shows, then there is witchcraft, Enochian Magick, things like the "Golden Dawn", Voodoo and probably a few I'm missing.

Some folks consider Masons to practice or dabble in magic or the occult - and indeed given the fact they have these secret ceremonies, they certainly DO "practice the occult" at least in the specific definition thereof.

So - it comes down to this... do you accept the word of people like Alex Jones (who has shown himself to be nothing more than an anarchist hell bent on the destruction of our government in pretty much any form) or do you question the veracity of their statements without any proof?

Me? I chose to question everything that is in the realm of "Conspiracy Theory" (See Anomalies.net if you're unaware of that site).

Any time anyone makes a statement about something like "Bohemian Grove" for instance, I'm going to question anything related to that material - because I know where most of it originated. Because of the source, which is completely untrustworthy not one word of it is to be trusted without checking it out.

Finally... checking something out isn't just reading other material that "verifies" it's truth. Anyone can take material from many places and combine it all into this "vast conspiracy" that is "proven" by other related material (which in truth isn't related).

I cite Richard Hoagland, the NASA-Mason-Hyperdimensional-Numerological-Egyptian connections.

While each item is true he talks about (mostly true I should say) there is NO connection between Egyptian gods, Numerology, the Masons and NASA choosing some symbolic link associated with these things, POINTING TO a "New World Order" or Illuminati EITHER.

But people take that tripe as gospel!

[zenbudda]

It's utter bullshit, and anything associated with Jones is utter bullshit.

I disagree with the literal context of "anything associated with Jones is utter bullshit". This means anything this man says will never be trusted. In fact, there is a theory that Jones works for the CIA as a dis-informant. That way, everyone can lump any "true" theories with all of the false theories and no one would know the better.

But if you mean that "figuratively" then yes, I agree. Jones is one of those "the sky is falling" freaks.

[American Patriot]

I disagree with the literal context of "anything associated with Jones is utter bullshit". This means anything this man says will never be trusted. In fact, there is a theory that Jones works for the CIA as a dis-informant. That way, everyone can lump any "true" theories with all of the false theories and no one would know the better.

But if you mean that "figuratively" then yes, I agree. Jones is one of those "the sky is falling" freaks.

Jones and Hoagland are two of kind living in two different worlds.

The fact that occasionally a fact or some truth is uttered by either of them does not make them credible in any sense of the word.

Working for the CIA?

Extremely doubtful. I've know many folks that work for that Agency. I even applied there myself once. I know what you go through to get there.

Jones didn't get there (if he works there) with his current belief system (or even the one he used to have when broadcasting over the Shortwave so many years ago, before the internet was born).

I've followed the guy's crap for a long time - and back in those days he was an 'unknown' and didn't get where he is now by working for the CIA.

When a person is better known for lying than telling the truth, anything he says that is truthful is useless information as well. Especially when used in conjunction with fake data to sway some misbegotten, naive followers.

That's my point. While you might think that perhaps "biased" or even worse - and it might be - I can't abide fools and Jones' is a fool. Therefore to listen to ANYTHING the man says is to throw in the told on logic and reasonable thinking.

[RememberCuba94]

Ok, you're talking a different story now then - YOU SHOULD be trying to prove it is true (or false). Sorry for calling you "Son" then

Here's the "facts" in facts.

What you have to do is take what you've read, what you think you know and where the source of the information is leaning. Then each piece of that information HAS to be ABSOLUTELY confirmed or not.

If you're "on the fence" then why are you on the fence? Examine that particular piece carefully. Ask questions about that piece. Find out what it is.

In this case it seems to be about the occult stuff. Let's talk about that second.

What is "occult" first off? The definition simply means "hidden from the light". (In astronomy it means when one darker body passes in front of a lighter body and momentarily occults it. Two stars in a binary system will do this for example.

In a "supernatural world" the "occult" is still "hidden from the light". It is simply "of or pertaining to the supernatural" and basically any practices of magic or magick (as you prefer). There are several forms of "magic". The normal kind you see on television or at magic shows, then there is witchcraft, Enochian Magick, things like the "Golden Dawn", Voodoo and probably a few I'm missing.

Some folks consider Masons to practice or dabble in magic or the occult - and indeed given the fact they have these secret ceremonies, they certainly DO "practice the occult" at least in the specific definition thereof.

So - it comes down to this... do you accept the word of people like Alex Jones (who has shown himself to be nothing more than an anarchist hell bent on the destruction of our government in pretty much any form) or do you question the veracity of their statements without any proof?

Me? I chose to question everything that is in the realm of "Conspiracy Theory" (See Anomalies.net if you're unaware of that site).

Any time anyone makes a statement about something like "Bohemian Grove" for instance, I'm going to question anything related to that material - because I know where most of it originated. Because of the source, which is completely untrustworthy not one word of it is to be trusted without checking it out.

Finally... checking something out isn't just reading other material that "verifies" it's truth. Anyone can take material from many places and combine it all into this "vast conspiracy" that is "proven" by other related material (which in truth isn't related).

I cite Richard Hoagland, the NASA-Mason-Hyperdimensional-Numerological-Egyptian connections.

While each item is true he talks about (mostly true I should say) there is NO connection between Egyptian gods, Numerology, the Masons and NASA choosing some symbolic link associated with these things, POINTING TO a "New World Order" or Illuminati EITHER.

But people take that tripe as gospel!

Oh, it's okay. That's happened to me beofre on the net.

I'm on the fence because, at this point, I think either side might be true. I'm leaning more on the skeptical side because:

1. Jones often lies.

2. I don't really have anything else to base the veracity of pagan rituals worshipping a giant owl other that that documentary he supposedly shot in the Grove. He said he got in because of a friend or contact or something. I have, however, seen a response from Bohemian Grove members about this ritual in the documentary. They supposedly said that it was all symbolic, and it was harmless. I say "supposedly" because the source is wikipedia.

Interesting stuff about this guy, Richard Hoagland. Tell me, is he the guy who believes that the pyramids were built by aliens? If so, I might have seen one of his videos on youtube. I stopped watching because I thought it was nuts.

What parts of his theory did you think were mostly true?

[zenbudda]

if my memory serves me correctly, hoagland is the main guy behind the "fake moon landing" theory.