Basically, I would like to see any parts of prophecy in the Bible that support the idea of the Axis. I've seen a lot of visions about it, but I won't take it as Biblical truth unless it's actually in the Bible.
Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Basically, I would like to see any parts of prophecy in the Bible that support the idea of the Axis. I've seen a lot of visions about it, but I won't take it as Biblical truth unless it's actually in the Bible.
Domine, dirige nos.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Everyone has their own thinking on how the Trans-Asian Axis events may or may not unfold. Some do not believe in biblical prophecy, dreams or visions and have difficulty with any information coming from these areas.
I study every angle and let the events drive my posts.
People tend to have a linear hang ups on timing when it comes to unfolding events. They sometimes input their own reasoning the way they perceive how timing will unfold an event or events in a dream, vision or revelation in scripture they received.
Study what others believe to know where they hang their beliefs/events to scripture and come to your own prayerful conclusions.
I was actually drawn to the Trans-Asian Axis activities over a decade ago by the crowd of similar testimonies coming from prominent Christians over the past 100+ years, all with similar dreams, visions and biblical revelations about the Trans-Asian Axis.
At that time the collapse of the former Soviet Union had just occurred and China was way behind the United States in wealth and technology.
The things they were saying did not make sense. However their messages are now becoming more and more relevant each passing day.
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Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
"Your grandchildren will live under communism."
“You Americans are so gullible.
No, you won’t accept
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outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
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."
We’ll so weaken your
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until you’ll
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like overripe fruit into our hands."
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
I'm one of those guys that "has issues" with prophecy (Biblical or otherwise, including Nostrodamas, Astrology and all that sort of thing), dreams and visions.
Some "visions" I can grasp as having some kind of a connection to reality. (I've had my own weird "visions" - waking visions that actually came to pass as I saw them... whether this was coincidence or real precognition, I don't know and won't try to explain it).
When it comes down to reality - those things we can see, feel and hear happening in the here and now certainly hold a lot more weight over those things that happened in the past or "Might Be" because something was stated in the Bible.
Humans have their own way of thinking and acting and every one of us are individuals and have as much impact on our own futures as anyone around us. Those sitting on some foreign shore contemplating our destruction (as in terrorists, or Communists) might have an effect on our daily lives or they might not.
Things in the Bible will have an effect on your life if you LET IT.
I have a very, very clear definition of "Belief" and "Fact".
Facts affect me in the here and now. Beliefs ONLY affect me insofar as I allow them to do so.
So... my opinion of Revelations? Not much to say. I don't believe that the Bible predicts our here and now.
It might certainly have some basis in fact if you are willing to allow your mind to be transformed and guided by words written in a book....
(Note: I am NOT saying that the Bible isn't TRUE. I am saying that the Bible is about God and religion. It's NOT a history lesson. It's not a prediction.)
Libertatem Prius!
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Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Remember, start here:
http://www.ucg.org/booklets/ME/warandpeace.asp
A few years back, I research the heck out of this notion. And finally shelved it as I got tired of it.
As with most things related to the Bible, it's all in the interpretation.
Bottom line: I'm as convinced of the info at the site above as I am there was a Great Flood.
Pastor John Hagee (church I used to attend) had some great sermons about this, and I'll bet he sells it on DVD at his site. I have purchased stuff from him in the past, and the shipping, payment, and quality of his products are good.
For more info, just use some of the key words in that link and search with Google.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Couldn't find this earlier.
I have "Beyond Iraq: The End of The Age" from Hagee.
Liner note: What does Bible Prophecy say will happen in the near future in the Middle East?
I bought this around 2004 in CD version as I didn't have a DVD player then.
Just looked at Hagee's site, and it appears this one isn't made any more.
But there are many others.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Ok...
I think someone should just lay it out.
What year is the Big one?
When it is going to start?
you know. Details.
Libertatem Prius!
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Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Your guess may very well be more accurate than mine.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
That's the crux of the problem then isn't it?
You would be guessing, right? Studying the Bible doesn't make you any more likely to be able to properly (accurately) predict what China will do next.
Studying CHINA however, WILL give you a vastly greater insight into what they will do next - and while you still won't get it 100% right, you will get it much more right than you will get it wrong.
Libertatem Prius!
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Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Matthew 24:32-33 , "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that the end is near, right at the door."
You have to be familiar with the subject to understand it. If you don't study any of these subjects you will never recognize the changes until after they happen.
This is the problem with so many in the West with regards to the Trans-Asian Axis subject.
The bible does speak of Gog and Magog and the Kings of the East with Persia (Iran/Hezbollah) being an end time force to be reckoned with and Israel (not a country until 1948) under attack from these players.
The Trans-Asian Axis and their growing multifaceted organizations started appearing over just the last 10 years. Organizations like the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) and the (BRIC) Alliance are now ascending to acclimate and assimilate with our allies in Europe while America grows isolated in economic decline.
Most Americans believe the former Soviet Union is dead and China needs us to buy their stuff and Iran, Syria, North Korea and Venezuela are just nut jobs given special speaking engagements at UN conferences.
They can't see these are all surrogate pawns being fostered in a sophisticated Geo-political chess game to wear down 'American Hegemony' and isolate it from NATO/EU for global domination.
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Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
"Your grandchildren will live under communism."
“You Americans are so gullible.
No, you won’t accept
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outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
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."
We’ll so weaken your
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until you’ll
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like overripe fruit into our hands."
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Not necessarily true.Originally Posted by Rick Donaldson
If one studies Bible prophecy, and finds an item in there that (one believes) relates to current events, and the Bible goes on to say what will happen next - who is to say it won’t happen?
And if it does, that blew your above quote out of the water.
I just can’t buy into the notion that studying either one - the Bible or current China events - will provide more accurate predictions.Studying CHINA however, WILL give you a vastly greater insight into what they will do next - and while you still won't get it 100% right, you will get it much more right than you will get it wrong.
In both cases, that would be like predicting predictions.
If you follow me.
You see, for me, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt the Bible does indeed foretell future events.
The issue is applying current events to Bible prophecy.
And can I prove those last 2 statements? Nope.
I think that's where you get hung up. It's faith, and not hard science.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
I want to clarify why I put this thread up. My question was, is there any Biblical evidence of the Trans-Asian Axis? If there is a portion of prophecy that alludes to it or is similar to it, please post the reference or verses. I'd like to look it up for study.
Domine, dirige nos.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
I dug around on the internet and found some articles on Russia China. This is what some believe scripture implies as to their rise to power in the end times and the roles they might play.
You will find scripture references and explanations with some corroborating news articles.
Russia:
Article posted from the year 2006
RUSSIA IS BOLDLY MOVING INTO THE MIDDLE EAST -- PREPARING TO LEAD THE PROPHESIED NATIONS AGAINST ISRAEL IN FULFILLMENT OF EZEKIEL 38 -39 PROPHECIES!!
IDENTIFYING RUSSIA AS THE LEADER OF THIS INVASION FORCE
"And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: " (Ezekiel 38:1-3)
While it is true that the Bible generically identifies the evil forces opposed to God as 'Magog', and its leaders as 'Gog', there are etymological reasons for understanding that 'Gog' and 'Magog' may refer to what is called modern Russia. We see the name, Magog, first in Genesis 10:2, as one of the sons of Japheth, one of the grandsons of Noah. In that era, it was customary for tribal, and later, national names to evolve from the name of the original founder. "Apparently, the tribal name, Magog, moved northward from the Middle East. Josephus ... notes that Magog is called the Scythians by the Greeks ... who lived in the northern regions above the Caucasus Mountains, as forerunners of modern Russia."4
The term, 'Gog', above is translated from the Hebrew phrase, 'nesi rosh'5. While 'rosh' can be an adjective meaning 'head' or leader, it can also mean a proper place name, 'Rosh'. "The Hebrew lexicon of Brown, Driver, and Briggs indicates that Rosh here is the proper name of a people ... today's Russia."6
"'Tubal' and 'Meshech' were the fifth and sixth sons of Japheth, and their descendants settled south of the Black Sea ... The name, 'Moscow' derives from the tribal name, 'Meshech', and 'Tobolsk', the name of the principal state, from 'Tubal'. ("The Coming Peace in the Middle East", by Tim LaHaye, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, p. 29-30)
Therefore, it is proven conclusively that God was referring to modern Russia in this passage in Ezekiel 38-39. But, God lists one more identifying factor. In verse 38:6 and 15, and also in 39:2, God says that this attacking force shall come from the 'north'. But, the original Hebrew "gives the qualifier meaning 'extreme' or 'uttermost' to the term, 'north', all three times." (The Coming Russian Invasion Of Israel", updated, by Thomas S. McCall & Zola Levitt, Moody Press, chicago, 1974, 1987, p. 29)
When God gives direction in the Bible, it is always in reference to His Chosen Nation, Israel. In God's eyes, Israel is located precisely in the middle of the Earth. Therefore, what nation(s) lie to the 'uttermost north' from Israel generally, and Jerusalem specifically? Modern Russia lies directly north of Israel and Moscow lies directly north of Jerusalem. (Ibid., p. 30)
In verse 38:4, we see that God is going to allow Russia to arm herself with a very great army, probably for a purpose other than invading Israel; but, then, God Himself is going to "turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army ..." The term, 'hooks into thy jaws' is the same idea as placing a bridle in the mouth of a horse, to control his behavior and direction. In other words, God is going to place His bridle into the mouth of the Russian Bear and turn him toward Israel. And, make no mistake about the fact that this invasion is God's judgment. In 38:3, God made it quite plain that "I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal". Given God's long-suffering nature, His Mercy and His Grace, it is shocking to hear Him say these words of judgment. Then, to ensure that we understand that God is getting ready to judge Russia, we read, in 38:10a, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought"
God shall cause the evil thought to come into the mind of the Russian rulers to plan, and execute, the plan to invade and destroy Israel.
Even though Russia will field an army that would logically be expected to easily defeat tiny Israel, God foretells that it will have allies that will march with them; allies that will be trained, organized and equipped by Russia (38:4). God lists the nations which will be marching with Russia.
These nations will be coming from both the north and the south of Israel, which parallels the prophecy of the same event in Daniel 11:40. Ezekiel lists the following nations which will be marching with Russia.Persia (Iran)--from the NorthCush (Ethiopia)--from the South -- while the direct modern equivalent of ancient Cush is Ethiopia, other black nations from this region might also be included.Put (Libya)--from the SouthGomer (Eastern Europe)--from the North -- probably the former Eastern European block subservient to the old U.S.S.R.House of Togarmah (probably the southern Russian republics [mostly Arab] and possibly Turkey)--from the north.NOTE: One of the major points of this article is to report to you that all these nations are today arrayed with Russia militarily and diplomatically.
The last nation to fall into place was Turkey, whose government just recently changed from pro-Western to radical Islamic!! Since the planned collapse of the old U.S.S.R., Russia has moved diplomatically and militarily to re-establish all the old ties to these Islamic governments. The stage for the creation of this alliance is now set. Once the disappointment of the total defeat and annihilation of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and the Palestinian state has sunk in the minds of the Russian leaders and the leaders of the above Arab states, the alliance will come together quickly to invade Israel. And, of course, the greatest piece of this puzzle to fall into place is that the New World Order Plan to reorganize the nations of the world into 10 Super Nations [fulfilling Daniel 2 and 7:20-24] occurred from 1992 - 1996, and it lists Nation #5 as Eastern Europe and Russia!
Exactly fitting this Biblical scenario!
Obviously, the northern armies will be the most powerful by far. The southern armies will be important only for their symbolism. Indeed, all Arabs would surely insist upon marching with Russia to obliterate their old enemy and nemesis, Israel. Think of the seemingly wonderful situation from the Arab's point of view. Since the birth of Israel, May 14, 1948, Arab armies have been attacking Israel repeatedly trying to annihilate her. And, for most of this time, Russia has been arming the Arabs and advising them.
Still, Israel beats the Arabs, handily!! Now, Russia has had enough!! She is going to attack and destroy those pesky Jews once and for all. After all, Communist Russia has persecuted Jews mightily in their long history, originating the term 'pogrom'. Satanic hatred is fueling their drive this time. Now, they are going to show the Arabs how a military campaign should be conducted, and they invite all the Arabs along with the ride [above list]!
Significant Omissions of Countries Marching With RussiaSince this is the case, why aren't Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt marching WITH these Russian-led forces? Each of these countries have initiated conflict with Israel since 1948, so we know they would like to see Israel destroyed. Combined army, air force, and naval forces, modern enough to battle American and Western European armies, would now bearing down on Israel from the North and the South. Where are Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Egypt? Why didn't God list them as marching with Russia?
We know the answer concerning Iraq. Coalition Forces are currently tearing that ancient country into pieces, exactly as we said would likely happen, as Isaiah 13 is being fulfilled, in the Daily News for the past 3 years. We now know why Iraq will not be marching with the Russian-led forces.
Egypt is most conspicuous by her absence, since the armies from Libya and Ethiopia must march through northern Egypt to get to Israel. Look at a map, and you will see that the only way armies from these countries can get to Israel is by marching directly through Egypt.
As I pondered this dilemma, I concluded that the only explanation which makes sense is that Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt aren't marching with the Russian-led forces against Israel because, at the time of this invasion, they are no longer in existence. God's judgment has totally destroyed them.
Every Bible author and commentator I have read on this subject of the Russian invasion of Israel has commented on this highly significant omission in the list of the countries marching with Russia; yet, no one I have read has any idea as to why.
Article posted from the year 2007
Russia's Startling Ascendancy - Just As America Is Descending
To begin our study as to how Russia is now the Protectorate of Arab states in the Middle East, we need to go backward some years to a very important date in President Bush's "Regime Change" plan. Let us begin, in January, 2002, when President Bush announced his infamous "Axis of Evil" nations and declared his intent to achieve a "Regime Change" in all three instances."President George W. Bush singled out Iran, Iraq and North Korea as 'an axis of evil', bluntly warning the three nations that they could soon become targets in the US-led war on terrorism. Delivering his first State of the Union address to a joint session of Congress, Bush put the three so-called rogue states on notice that the United States is prepared to act, alone if it has to, against them should they threaten their people, their neighbors or others.
Let us review that story.
NEWS BRIEF: "Bush Puts Iran, Iraq, North Korea On Terror Notice", Yahoo News, January 30, 2002
"In addition, the president said the United States could and would bear the immense cost of a military campaign against any one the nations, maintaining that the price of doing nothing to counter such threats 'would be catastrophic' ... 'All nations should know: America will do what is necessary to ensure our nation's security ... I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons', he said, laying down a direct challenge."
All three governments knew immediately that President Bush had just targeted them for destruction, a plan which came to be known as "Regime Change". President Bush did not wait too long to take the next, dramatic step.
NEWS BRIEF: "US forces told to destroy supply lines of terror", By Charles Laurence in New York, David Wastell, and Jack Fairweather in Kuwait, 24/11/2002, news.telegraph.co.uk
"American special forces commandos have been ordered to launch covert operations against arms supply lines to terrorists and the three rogue nations referred to by President George W. Bush as the 'axis of evil'. Mr Bush has signed a classified executive order giving special forces unprecedented authority to combat and, if necessary, destroy arms suppliers who aid terrorism and any attempts to develop weapons of mass destruction."
In this era known as the "Sovereignty of Nations", each nation has the inherent, stated right to defend its own territory against invasion or attack from foreign forces. Each nation has the inherent right to counterattack an invading force once a foreign force has set foot on that nation's territory. History is filled with examples where wars were started when a foreign force attacked the soil of another country.
Commando attacks are considered an intrusion upon sovereign territory that is significant enough, in and of itself, to possibly trigger a war between sovereign states. Thus, when President Bush signed his executive order authorizing U.S. Special Forces to go into the territory of a foreign nation so that they may destroy Weapons of Mass Destruction believed to be there, he was effectively declaring war on those countries!
Iran understood this principle very well, all the way back in January, 2002, and certainly understood it in November when the President issued his military order for Special Operations against these three countries. By November, 2002, when Bush issued his special military order, Iran could see the massive buildup of Coalition Forces in the Gulf and could hear the equally massive propaganda push through the Mass Media designed to whip up support for an Iraqi invasion. The handwriting was most definitely on the wall.
On March 20, 2003, Coalition Forces charged across the Iraq/Kuwait border, and in early April, Baghdad fell. Euphoria was in the air. Analysts were waxing eloquently about the overwhelming superiority of American weaponry. At this moment, the top leaders of Russia, France, and Germany met in St. Petersburg, Russia. At the end of their meeting, Russian President Putin stepped to the podium as the spokesman of the group. His remarks revealed that these three nations were not overawed by American military superiority.
NEWS BRIEF: "No strike on other countries, Putin warns US", Sify News, April 12, 2003
"Saint Petersburg -- Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday warned the US-led coalition not to attack other countries under the pretext of promoting capitalist and democratic values after having defeated Iraq's dictatorial regime. 'We are not going to export capitalist, democratic revolutions,' the Russian leader told reporters as rumours in Washington allege that some elements of the US administration are mulling launching military operations against other Middle Eastern states. 'If we do, we're going to end up on a slippery slope to non-ending military conflicts. We can't let that happen,' Putin said at a joint press conference with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and French President Jacques Chirac after holding talks with them."
These are harsh words, coming from seasoned leaders of powerful countries. Such leaders do not issue such threats without seriously considering that the consequences if their bluff is called and they do not respond. Were America to now attack in a manner which would create a "Regime Change" in Iran and/or Syria, the public credibility of Russia, France and Germany would fall to nearly zero.
These three leaders understand this principle; therefore, we believe the threat is real. Certainly, Russia has the capability to stand up to America's fearsome military machine, because she has Scalar Weaponry, which is far more potent than any weapon America possesses -- a fact we explain thoroughly in NEWS1802 , NEWS1776.
Interestingly, during this April 12 news conference, President Putin specifically mentioned only Syria, against whom Bush officials were breathing threats of fire, and against whose borders we had moved troops and tanks. But, Putin's warnings could equally apply to Iran, who is the major recipient of our ire today. It is with Iran that Russia made her move to counter American power in the entire region.
In fact, her actions, which apparently began shortly after Putin's warning of April 12, 2003, may have just checkmated American power in the region. We explain this reality in NEWS2003, entitled, "RUSSIAN CHECKMATE IN THE MIDDLE EAST?".
If you have not yet read this article, please do so now, for an understanding as to how closely American pressure has driven Iran (Ancient Persia) into the hairy arms of the Russian Bear, is critical to understanding the prophetic implications. You see, Persia is foretold in Ezekiel 38-39 as being one of the countries which will march against Israel in the Latter Days. The government in control at that time has to be anti-West and anti-Israel, precisely as it is today. If President Bush successfully overthrows the present regime, he will institute a puppet government just as he has done in Iraq; this government will be pro-Israel and pro-West. Therefore, we expect that current Iranian government is protected by the prophecy of Ezekiel 38-39 from being overthrown; we may attack their facilities, but it seems to us that the government will be protected from actually being overthrown.
What has taken us by surprise is the intensity of the forces which have driven Iran into the Russian camp, as she seeks protection from America's sophisticated weaponry. Further, since the prophecy says that Gomer (European nations) is marching with Russia; therefore, American pressure on Iran is resulting in forcing together three major elements of this prophecy: Iran (Persia), Russia, Europe (Gomer).
Ezekiel 38-39 is extremely important to the entire prophetic plan to stage Antichrist on the world scene. Iran is one of those nations marching with Russia at the Latter Days. Her hardline government is exactly the kind she needs to hate Israel enough to march with Russia.
And, since mid-2003, Iran has been seeking Russian protection against America. Today, she has sophisticated Russian radar and anti-aircraft missiles which are also capable of shooting down cruise missiles.
And, silently, Iran knows she has protection from Russian scalar weaponry -- unequalled by anything in our arsenal.
Both Russia and Europe are currently making no bones about their intention to establish ties with Iran, in face of tremendous American pressure to back off. Listen to several news stories which really tell the story.
NEWS BRIEF: "Iran Signs Nuclear Fuel Agreement With Russia", By Ali Akbar Dareini, Associated Press Writer, Feb 27, 2005
"BUSHEHR, Iran (AP) - Russia and Iran signed a deal Sunday that would deliver nuclear fuel to the Middle East country for the startup of its first reactor - a project the United States had for years pushed Moscow to drop ... Iranian Vice President Gholamreza Aghazadeh and Russian Atomic Energy Agency chief Alexander Rumyantsev signed the agreement at the Bushehr nuclear power plant. The signing, which was delayed by a day, came after the two senior officials toured the $800 million complex."
This agreement means that Russia has committed, not only to provide the nuclear fuel by which Iran can operate this plant, but also to provide security against American attack. This reality was underscored by the next revelation in this news story. The Russian Atomic Energy Agency chief is speaking.
" 'Today, a very important development occurred, and that was the protocol on returning nuclear fuel, which we signed together. In the next few weeks many Russian technicians will arrive in Bushehr' to finish the plant, Rumyantsev said after the signing." (Ibid.)
When Russian technicians will arrive at the power plant, they will be at risk of death from any American or Israeli strike. To deliberately cause the deaths of Russian technical experts at this plant through an attack, the Bush Administration risks an international confrontation with Russia, thus making an attack less likely.
Furthermore, Russia did not sign this accord, nor did she send her technicians to the plant, until she activated her air defense shield over Iran (NEWS2003 ). Therefore, Russia felt confident in signing this agreement with Iran, an action which really means a "poke in the eye" to President Bush.
A very recent story reported that Russia deceptively worked with Iran to provide nuclear fuel for the Bushehr plant, even as Russian leaders were going through the motions to cooperate with United Nations officials in denying such fuel to this plant!
NEWS BRIEF: "Moscow Releases Nuclear Fuel for Iran’s Bushehr Reactor", DEBKAfile Intelligence, June 12, 2007
"On June 8, the week before the G8 opened in Germany, Moscow released the long-withheld nuclear fuel for Iran’s atomic reactor in Bushehr. It was delivered 24 hours before Israel launched its new military imaging satellite Ofeq-7, bringing forward the Iranian threat to Israel ... special nuclear containers were loaded on a train in the yard of the manufacturers JSC Novosibirsk Chemical Concentrates Plant on June 2-3. They contained two types of nuclear fuel, WER-440 and WER-1000 ... The special train then headed out of Novosibirsk to Astrakhan on the Caspian Sea, 2,000 km away. There, the containers awaited loading aboard a Russian ship destined for Bandar Anzili, the Iranian military port on the Caspian shore ... a fleet of Iranian trucks was waiting at the other end outside Bandar Anzili port to transport the nuclear fuel and drive it slowly and carefully to Bushehr, a distance of 850km, arriving June 10 or 11."
This next segment reveals exactly how Russia's delivery of nuclear fuel to Iran hurts President Bush's foreign policy regarding Iran.
"His move hits the US where it hurts most: The UN Security Council meets at the end of June to approve harsher sanctions against Iran for continuing to enrich uranium in defiance of previous resolutions. The Russian fuel delivery will substantially dilute the effect of such penalties, especially when the Islamic Republic is about to clinch a deal for the acquisition of long-range ballistic missiles from North Korea."
President Putin deliberately undercut President Bush's policies toward Iran, and in this case, Putin took great care to hide his actions until there was nothing President Bush could do to stop him. This kind of deception demonstrates the reality that Russia's Putin does not hold the United States in high esteem.
This next story shows how Russia is aggressively arming Iran with her most sophisticated military hardware.
NEWS BRIEF: "Reports: Iran to buy jets from Russia", The Jerusalem Post, July 30, 2007
"Israel is looking into reports that Russia plans to sell 250 advanced long-range Sukhoi-30 fighter jets to Iran in an unprecedented billion-dollar deal. in addition to the fighter jets, Teheran also plans to purchase a number of aerial fuel tankers that are compatible with the Sukhoi and capable of extending its range by thousands of kilometers. Defense officials said the Sukhoi sale would grant Iran long-range offensive capabilities."
This term, "long-range offensive capabilities" means that Iran would be able to strike Israel with these fighter-bombers. To understand how lethal this aircraft can be, let us to to Wikipedia Encyclopedia.
"The Sukhoi Su-30 (NATO reporting name 'Flanker-C') is an agile military aircraft developed by Russia's Sukhoi Aviation Corporation and introduced into operational service in 1996. An air superiority fighter that can also perform ground strikes, the Su-30 is comparable to USA's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and F-15E Strike Eagle."
As you can see, this fighter-bomber is a first-class offensive weapon. Russia has just sold them to Iran.
Furthermore, in Army Intelligence, I learned that, when a government admits to making a sale of a rather sensitive nature, that sale was made a long time ago and the merchandise has already been delivered.
Also, whenever you hear that the government is working on a new weapons system, the likelihood is great that the new weapons system has already been in the weapons inventory for 5-10 years.
Since Russia is foretold to be a "commander" (Ezekiel 38:7) for the coalition forces attacking Israel, we should expect that Russia should also arm the participants, at least to some degree. Today, Russia is truly arming Iran.
Europe also seems to be lining up behind Iran, as this related story indicates.
NEWS BRIEF: "Are Europe and Russia Ganging up on America over Iran?", DEBKAfile Special Report, March 1, 2005
"The international ensemble dancing around Iran’s nuclear program appears to have regrouped: the European Union and Russia are suddenly lining up against America barely a week after US President George W. Bush held talks in Europe to patch up differences with both. European officials said Monday February 28 they had no problem with the deal Moscow signed two days earlier to sell Iran nuclear fuel for bringing Iran’s Bushehr reactor on line. Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, after talks with EU leaders, urged Americans to take a 'more active' role in European diplomatic efforts with Iran."
The picture we may have here is that Russia and Europe are coordinating foreign policy regarding Iran, deliberately running counter to the policy of President Bush. News reports posted on Daily News Updates indicate that the European leaders did not really buy the line from Bush that America and Europe needed to just "forgive and forget".
Instead, the 25 members of the European Union spoke with one united voice in contravention to Bush's policies. In fact, even Solana got in on the act, warning Bush to stop his "Regime Change", backed by bombing threats, against Iran.
The European Union has embarked on a separate diplomatic campaign regarding Iran, a campaign seemingly much closer to Russian policies than Washington's. Iran seems firmly in the Russian - European orbit -- and President Bush's continuous threats since January, 2002, have forced her into this kind of alliance. If this perception is correct, we are seeing the working out of an alliance which will result in Ezekiel 38-39 being literally fulfilled.
Truly, the world stands at the precipice of the End of the Age.
China:
Article posted from the year 2005
"KINGS OF THE EAST" (REV 16:12): STRENGTHENING AND MAKING ALLIANCES WHICH WILL ENABLE HER TO MARCH AGAINST ISRAEL
BIBLICAL PROPHETIC BACKDROP
China Identified As "Kings of the East"
"And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come." ( Joel 2:30-31; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)The place of which this prophecy is speaking is the Middle East, after Israel has come back to her land. God is foretelling that, before the "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" comes -- which is the 7-Year Tribulation Period -- the region is going to suffer warfare whose effects were puzzling until the advent of nuclear warheads: "... wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke ..."
Nuclear warheads certainly create "pillars of smoke", and they certainly produce fiery conditions hotter than the surface of the Sun! Nuclear explosions also kick up into the atmosphere enough dust as to make the Moon turn red, and even blot out the Sun at midday.
"And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them." [Revelation 9:13-16; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)
Note the word, "bound" in this chapter. The meaning of the word in the original Greek is "deo", Strong's Number 1210. This word carries a meaning other than imprisoned; the secondary meaning is an obligation to a higher authority. In other words, the demons are not only physically bound right now in the "great river Euphrates" area, but when they are released, they are required by God's sovereignty to carry out Biblical prophecy. At no time are these demonic angels able to exercise any kind of free will, but can only act in accordance with God's prophetic plan -- of which they will fulfill this somber part.
This incredible prophecy tells us that one of God's punishments is to loosen four great demonic "angels" which have been bound somewhere in the vicinity of the River Euphrates, probably in that extra-dimension in which angels and demons exist. These angels lead some great army of men numbering 200,000,000 [200 million] strong.
This is not the only time we see demonic beings leading a great army to battle during the Great Tribulation Period. In Revelation 16:13-14, we see that demonic spirits possess the Antichrist and the False Prophet, and go throughout the world to deceive the leaders of the world to gather in the Valley of Meggiddo for the Battle of Armageddon. We are getting a little ahead of ourselves here, but we wanted to establish the fact that demonic beings are going to be allowed to really and truly deceive the minds of human leaders during the Great Tribulation, to persuade human leaders to lead their forces into battle.
Now, let us go back to Revelation 9:13-16. We see that the 200 million man army will be allowed to kill one-third of the population of the world!! In other words, this 200 million man army will be well equipped with weapons of mass destruction. We consider weapons of mass destruction to be of three (3) types: nuclear, chemical, and biological.
This unbelievable army, comprised of an unprecedented number of men, will possess the firepower capable of killing one-third of all the inhabitants of the Earth!
Finally, notice that God reveals, in this passage, that He has prepared these mighty four demonic angels for a specific time: This specific time is described as "an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year". In other words, God has determined, a long time ago, the exact day, of the exact month, of the exact year that this invasion will occur! God is in total control. All we know is that it will occur in the 7-year Tribulation Period, and most probably the last part of the 3 ½ years known as the Great Tribulation.
Now, when we return to our passage in Revelation 9, we get further insight as to who this army may be, and from where they might be coming. Let us now to the next verse, to get more information on this unprecedented army.
"And in my vision the horses and their riders appeared to me like this: the riders wore breastplates the color of fiery red and sapphire blue and sulphur (brimstone) yellow. The heads of the horses looked like lions' heads, and from their mouths there poured fire and smoke and sulphur (brimstone). A third of mankind was killed by these three plagues--by the fire and the smoke and the sulphur (brimstone) that poured from the mouths of the horses. For the power of the horses to do harm is in their mouths and also in their tails. Their tails are like serpents, for they have heads, and it is by means of them that they wound people." (Revelation 9:17-19; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)
Most Bible scholars have had great difficulty in understanding this passage, as this army is described by the Apostle John in a manner which is not absolutely clear to us. Before we attempt to ascertain the meaning of this description, let us go forward in Revelation, to the point where we see this army coming up to the great River Euphrates.
"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way [road] of the kings of the east might be prepared." [Revelation 16:12].
In this Vial Judgment, we see that the Euphrates is dried up for the specific purpose of allowing the "Kings of the East" to cross with their 200 million man army. Wow, the Kings of the East. What country is East of Israel that is capable of fielding a 200 million man army? There is only one country: China.
When you count their Militia, in conjunction with her active Army, China can field an army of 200,000,000 men!! In the last several decades, China has enforced the draconian decree that each family can only have one child. Since the traditional Chinese culture prefers boys over girls, Chinese parents have quietly been killing girls so they can get pregnant again to have boys. China is now in the situation where she has tens of millions more men than women. "This sexual imbalance will result in an excess of over seventy million young men in China by the year 2000, with no women for them to marry ... This situation could fulfill the prophecy of John about the two-hundred-million-man army from the East that will fight in the Battle of Armageddon." ["The Signature Of God: Astonishing Biblical Discoveries", by Grant Jeffrey, Frontier Research Publications, Inc, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, 1996, ISBN 0-921714-28-9, Page 198]
If we understand that this army from the East, totaling 200,000,000 men, is Chinese, then let us look at the difficult passage in Revelation 9:17-19. We are told that the riders of these "horses" wore breastplates of "fire, jacinth, and brimstone", we have to ask ourselves what kind of colors would this be?
The Chinese Army would have to progress through the following countries, or very near them. From Northern China is where this enormous army would have to stage to begin the march, as you can see from the map of China, above. The superhighway is shown in red. Then, as the road crosses over the Chinese border, it goes into the Chinese controlled area of Kashmir, through the Pakistan controlled area of Kashmir, and then through the Karahoram Highway! Then, the road would go West through the following countries.
From China all the way across Afghanistan, this super highway would run across some of the tallest mountains in the world. You can see that, if a nation is going to rapidly move 200,000,000 fighting men and their war materiel across such a long distance, they would need such a modern super highway. Otherwise, the mountains would prohibit such movement.
Grant Jeffrey says very plainly, "The Chinese government has spent enormous sums and expended the lives of hundreds of thousands of construction workers building a military superhighway across Asia heading directly toward Israel. The highway has no economic purpose and no foreigners are allowed anywhere near this road. The highway has been completed through the south of China, Tibet, Pakistan, and Afghanistan." [Ibid., p. 199]
Why is this highway only completed through Afghanistan? After all, this 200 million man army still has to travel through Iran, Iraq, and Jordan to get to Israel. Why would the highway be constructed only through Afghanistan? One possible answer is that they have not received the permission from Iran and Iraq to build such a super highway; however, I do not believe this is the case, because of the hatred of the Arabs against Israel. They would do anything to see Israel defeated and annihilated, including the building of a super highway. The second possible answer is that the terrain of Iran, Iraq, and Jordan is so flat that huge tanks, trucks, and tens of thousands of other tracked vehicles could easily travel across the land. In military terms, this land is called "Tank Country", because tanks can so easily move quickly across.
However, once the army reaches Baghdad, it will have to cross the rivers Tigris and Euphrates. I find it interesting that these prophecies do not mention the Tigris River being crossed, when it is most obvious that the army must cross it if they are going to cross the Euphrates. There are only three reasons the Tigris River is not mentioned. 1) The Bible considers the Tigris-Euphrates River Basin as one system. 2) For the army to have crossed the Euphrates River from the East, they would have to cross the Tigris. 3) It is at the Euphrates River that God has chained the four powerful evil angels that are leading this tremendous army toward Israel. Whatever the reason, we know that Turkey has built their systems of dams so that they can shut the water completely off both the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Both mighty rivers will be dry!! On this note, do you know that the Government of Turkey now has, in place, a system of dams that could completely shut off the flow of water down the River Euphrates? That system of dams has just been recently constructed, and is one more indication that we are living in the End of the Age! Let us examine this most pertinent Scripture once again:
"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way [the road] of the kings of the east might be prepared." [Revelation 16:12; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)
Jordan -- Jordanian territory is as flat and as conducive to rapid tank and truck traffic as Iran.
Remember the prophecy that this 200 million man army would kill one-third of the world's population? If this calculation is figured on the basis of the 6 billion people now in the world, then this would be a death figure of 2 billion people. However, by this time, at least one-fourth of the world's population is dead from God's judgments, which means that, before this army marches, approximately 1 billion, 500 million people have already died, leaving a world population of no more than 4.5 billion. This means that 1.5 billion people will be killed by this army of the East.
As we look at the countries through which, or near which, this army will pass, we see two very interesting situations. First, we see India, with a population of slightly more than 1 billion. If India begins to move her forces to meet the Chinese army, then it is highly likely that China might retaliate with all the weapons of mass destruction at her disposal. India could be annihilated.
Second, New World Order Plans envision the complete annihilation of the world's 1 billion Muslims because their belief in One God is too strong for them to ever accept the claims of the New Age Christ [Antichrist]. It is interesting to note that the majority of the population in Southern Russia is Muslim, so they would be targeted for destruction from the beginning.
However it works out, this invasion of the 200 million man army from the "East", China, will result in the deaths of one-third of all the people of the Earth. Thus, by the time this army reaches Jerusalem, it will have many victories and much blood on their hands. We believe this is the true prophetic significance between the current dispute between Pakistan, India, and China over Kashmir. China may just be acting to ensure that her access to Karahoram Pass remains firmly in either her hands or in Pakistan's. If this war were to really break out, and Pakistan is decimated, and in danger of losing control of the critical mountain pass, China would most certainly enter the war with all weapons at her disposal.
ARMING CHINA WITH MODERN WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO FULFILL THIS PROPHECY
Since the mid-1990's, China has been arming to an alarming degree! Using monies gained primarily from her growing, lucrative trade with the United States and the European Union, China has been arming herself like a young boy who has a lot of money to spend in a candy store. China has bought, stolen, or bartered arms from Russia, the United States, and Israel.
Furthermore, China has quietly been making alliances with nations she deems necessary to further her aim to march to Israel at the latter end of the Tribulation Period. Not only does prophecy state this, as we noted above, but the New World Order Plan envisions this also. Listen:
"Eventually the Chinese invasion, it seems, will split into two prongs ... Chinese forces will eventually reach the Middle East ... Above all, there will be the Great Chinese War ... the initial skirmishes will take place in South-East Asia and India ...". (Peter Lemesurier, "The Armageddon Script", page 223)
Note carefully that this plan nearly perfectly parallels Scriptural prophecy as we noted, above. China will destroy wantonly in "South-East Asia and India", just as prophecy indicates.
Now, let us view some news articles to see how feverishly China is arming.
NEWS BRIEF: "U.S. Missile Gap Widen: Pentagon's hypersonic weapon program by 2010, WorldNetDaily, by Charles Smith, October 3, 2000.
""Despite the Pentagon's development of a new generation of hypersonic missile, the U.S. is still a decade behind Russia in high-speed cruise-missile design, according to defense analysts. According to the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency, the U.S. military is developing a new hypersonic robot missile reported to be capable of traveling in excess of six times the speed of sound and armed with its own miniature smart bombs. The new weapon, called the Advanced Rapid Response Missile Demonstrator, or ARRMD, is designed to cruise at over 4,000 miles an hour and strike targets hundreds of miles away in only a few seconds. "Wow! This type of weapon would be a devastating weapon that could penetrate any defense system known today. A missile moving toward a target at 4,000 miles per hour would move so quickly through even the most sophisticated defense system that no computer could react quickly enough to shoot it down before it blew the targeted ship out of the water. Thank God we are working on it, and not the Russians and Chinese. Right? Wrong!!
"Nevertheless, defense analysts agree that the U.S. is fully a decade behind Russia in high-speed cruise missile designs. Russia currently deploys and exports the supersonic SS-N-22 Moskit cruise missile, NATO codenamed "Sunburn." The SS-N-22 is considered the most lethal anti-ship missile in the world, and flies at over 2.5 times the speed of sound only a few feet from the surface of the water." [This speed amounts to almost 1,700 miles per hour, or 28 miles per minute].
Wait a minute! You mean that Russia not only has this type of missile, but they have already deployed it? Further, they are exporting it to other nations! Does this mean that China might have this missile? Does this mean that both China and Russia might be able to deploy this missile in the upcoming planned Third World War? Listen:
"The Sunburn missile has been sold to China. The SS-N-22s are part of a recent Chinese purchase of two Sovremenny-class destroyers. Each warship carries two quad SS-N-22 launchers providing eight missiles per destroyer. According to U.S. Navy documentation, each Sunburn missile can be armed with a nuclear warhead equal to over 200,000 tons of TNT. News reports of nuclear warheads on the new Chinese anti-ship missiles were first published in WorldNetDaily in 1999."
Russia has also supplied Iran with this Sunburn supersonic missile. If hostilities were initiated between Iran and the United States, the Sunburn missile, guided by Russian radar, will immediately attack oil shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, through which one-third of crude oil to the West passes. The American Navy simply does not have the weaponry with which to counter-attack the Sunburn. If Russian radar and scalar weaponry can neutralize American fighter jets, our interests could suffer immediately, perhaps permanently.
NEWS BRIEF: "China And Russia Flex Their Muscles As They Join Forces To Play The War Game", By Simon Tisdall, The Guardian - UK, 8-8-5
"Next week will see far larger war games involving Chinese and Russian troops in and around the Shandong peninsula in the Yellow sea. Regional observers say such military cooperation is unprecedented and could mark the start of something new. 'The China-Russia exercise is intended to send a message to Taiwan', said Andrew Yang of the Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies in Taipei. 'But it's also a very significant move in terms of the developing relationship between Russia and China and joint efforts to manage regional security. China considers it's time to increase strategic cooperation with Russia to balance the US role in the region. Both are interested in demonstrating this is a multipolar rather than a unipolar world'."
"Russia was already China's biggest arms and energy supplier. Bilateral collaboration would progressively deepen not only in the Asia-Pacific area but also in central Asia, he predicted. The prospect of a revamped Beijing-Moscow 'axis' is feeding American paranoia about the challenge to US security and economic interests posed by China's rise ... Max Boot, of the Council on Foreign Relations thinktank in New York, warned ominously last month of a Chinese 'stealth war' involving financial, resource, psychological, media and even ecological warfare."
"A recent Pentagon report reemphasized concerns that China's military build-up could in time pose a 'credible threat' to the US and its allies in the Asia-Pacific theatre ..."
This report simply screams that China now possesses enough state-of-the-art weaponry in enough quantity to pose a very significant threat to the United States.
"China's rapid military build-up is a direct threat not only to Taiwan but to the United States, Japan, and Australia as well, Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian warned ... 'Some of their missiles can reach 10,000 kilometres', Chen told The Weekend Australian in Taipei. 'Therefore, their targets include the US, Japan, Australia - all the countries in the Asia-Pacific region', he said, adding that Beijing was also strengthening its worldwide espionage operations. An estimated 600-700 ballistic missiles along the Chinese coast face Taiwan, just 160 kilometres away."
"The report said that an increasingly modern Chinese military could pose a threat to the US and other forces. Governments across Asia worry about Beijing's growing military power, driven by a booming economy and double-digit annual spending increases. China's military-spending is already the world's third-highest at US Dollar 50 billion to US Dollar 70 billion a year, behind only to US and Russia, the Pentagon report had said."
China is feeling bold enough these days to actually threaten the United States with a nuclear attack.
NEWS BRIEF: "China's nuke warning to US on Taiwan", rediff.com, July 15, 2005
"A Chinese general said that if the United States were to attack China in a conflict over Taiwan, he believed Beijing might respond with nuclear weapons ... Maj. Gen. Zhu Chenghu, a dean at China's National Defense University, stressed that he was expressing a personal view, not official policy ... Zhu was responding to a question about how China might respond to US involvement in a conflict with Taiwan. The United States is Taiwan's biggest arms supplier and could be drawn into fighting to help defend the island. 'If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition into the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons', the general was quoted as saying."
While this general is not directly now involved with military planning, neither would he dare say anything directly contrary to official Chinese government wishes, knowing he would easily and quickly disappear. Thus, we can only conclude that, as a private citizen now, he is stating official Chinese thinking in an unofficial capacity, thus giving China's officials the opportunity to issue a "plausible denial".
By the way, this is not the first time a Chinese general has threatened America with nuclear war should we intervene on behalf of Taiwan.In some instances, China has simply outsmarted both the United States and Russian leadership.
NEWS BRIEF: "China Duplicates Russian Top Secret Fire-Control Codes For SU-27 Fighter", by DEBKAfile, 29 June 2002
"A 33-year old Chinese software engineer, Zhu Rong Gong, has duplicated the secret fire-control software and systems integration for Russia’s Su-27 series of aircraft, giving his country’s drive towards the fully autonomous production of this potent weapon a sharp spurt ...
China is currently believed to operate 100 or more of these state of the art fighter aircraft, which parallel the Russian Mig-29 and US F-15C. In February 1996, Russia sold full Su-27 production rights to China for US$2.5 billion, but withheld the production secrets of certain key technologies, such as the software used to control the aircraft’s sophisticated integrated fire control system, which were supplied only in “black box” form."
"... The Russians counted on their “bans and restrictions”, coupled with China’s practical limitations, to hold Beijing back from modernizing and exporting non-licensed versions of the SU-27 and SU-30 variants without their help. They relied on the fact that the AL-31F engines and all the sets of radio-electronic equipment for these planes had to come from Russia. However, Chinese intelligence has actively pursued the secrets of the aircraft sub-systems Russia is withholding ..."
Thus, by successfully carrying out "reverse engineering", China has unlocked the full capabilities of Russia's most sophisticated fighter-bomber aircraft!
NEWS BRIEF: "PLA (Chinese) Navy Obtains New-Generation Submarines", Dr. Alexandr Nemets, Thursday, Nov. 21, 2002
"In July 2001, in an article about PLA Navy modernization written jointly with Dr. Thomas Torda (PLA Navy: From 'Green Water' to 'Blue Water'), the author gave the most recent information available (from June-August 2001) regarding the "093 project" nuclear attack submarine: By mid-2001, Huludao Military Shipbuilding Plant, in northeastern Liaoning province, finished construction of one submarine or, more probably, two submarines of this kind; this submarine (or these submarines) participated, in August 2001, in PLA's large-scale Dongshan maneuvers in the Taiwan Strait."
This article then listed some of the significant newly acquired capabilities of the Chinese Navy:
"By 2000-2001, China, with heavy Russian assistance, finished developing and mastered production of HN(Hong Niao)-2 and HN-3 Land Attack Cruise Missiles (LACMS). All of them are capable of carrying nuclear warheads."
"The HN-2 series includes three varieties – namely, HN-2A and HN-2B for ground launching, with a range of 1,800 km, and HN-2C for submerged launching from submarines, with a 1,400-km range. According to reliable sources, HN-2Cs are installed on PLA Navy Song-class diesel-electric submarines; they could be vertically launched from standard 533-mm torpedo tubes."
"The HN-3 series, with a range of 2,500-3,000 km and maximal rate of 0.9 Mach (speed of sound), includes the HN-3A variety for ground launching and the HN-3B variety for submerged launching from the "093 project" nuclear attack submarine."
"China (no doubt with heavy assistance from Russia) is presently engaged in developing "super-advanced" LACM with a range of 4,000 km."
"Very probably, in 2003-2005, the PLA Navy will concentrate efforts on purchasing Akula-II (nuclear) submarines from Russia. Some sources give $2 billion as the possible bargaining figure. At the same time, Huludao Shipyard could get the technology to manufacture Akula II. It is considered the most advanced in the Russian Navy inventory of nuclear attack submarines. Gepard weaponry includes:Time and space do not allow me to continue adding more news stories of the incredibly fast rate of improvement of Chinese weapons systems. During the past 6 years of the Clinton Administration, China received unbelievable assistance in satellite guidance systems, which make missile guidance systems incredibly more accurate.* Granit (SS-N-21 Sampson) submarine-launched LACMs with a range of approximately 3,000 km; they are usually equipped with nuclear warheads.* Yakhont supersonic ship-to-ship missiles, with a maximal rate of 3 Mach (1,000 m/s) and a range of about 300 km.
* Advanced torpedoes and missile-torpedoes.
The submarine could dive to depths of 520-600 m and sail autonomously for 100 days.
Clinton allowed China to "steal" our most advanced nuclear warhead designs.
In as many ways as you can count, China has advanced to the cusp of superpower status. Now, America is said to be trying to formulate a reasonable response.
NEWS BRIEF: "US, China entering new Cold War", Taipei Times, Aug 13, 2005
"The main theme running through East Asian history in recent years has shifted away from economic issues and a war on terror, and is now focused on geopolitical conflict. The contest between the major powers -- which is becoming increasingly tense -- looks more and more like a 'Cold War' between the US and China ... the anti-terror alliance between the US, Russia, China and other countries has practically disintegrated.
"It has been replaced by a geopolitical contest between major powers, particularly the US and China. This is clearly indicated by recent incidents, including China National Offshore Oil Corp's (CNOOC) failure to take over the US oil company Unocal, Uzbekistan's decision to drive the US military off its territory, and the six-party talks about nuclear disarmament on the Korean Peninsula ... Concerns over energy security are making Beijing authorities eager to drive out US forces from Central Asia as a way of breaking through the US' 'containment' ... The Pentagon's latest annual report on China's military strength, which was issued on July 19, for the first time points out that China's active expansion of its military arsenal is not only aimed at Taiwan, but rather at 'Taiwan and beyond'."
"All signs point to China and the US now entering into a new version of the Cold War. The two are still important trading partners, but they are also becoming involved in a geopolitical struggle centering around their opposing energy strategies. This struggle is now heating up."
Finally, both China and Russia have armed Iran to the teeth, a buildup calculated to ensure that President Bush could never actually attack Iran.
NEWS BRIEF: "Greater China: The US and that 'other' axis", By Jephraim P Gundzik, Asia Times, June 9, 2005
"Beijing's increasingly close ties with Moscow and Tehran will thwart Washington's foreign policy goal of expanding US security footholds in the Middle East, Central Asia and Asia ... Since the beginning of the war in Iraq, Beijing has worked feverishly to strengthen its ties with Moscow and Teheran in an apparent effort to prevent US military action against the remaining "axis of evil" members, Iran and North Korea. In addition to recent massive energy deals with Teheran, which place Iran in China's security web, both Beijing and Moscow have accelerated the transfer of missile technology to Teheran, while selling the Islamic republic increasingly sophisticated military equipment."
"Armed with a vast array of anti-ship and long-range missiles, Iran can target US troop positions throughout the Middle East and strike US Navy ships. Iran can also use its weapons to blockade the Straits of Hormuz through which one-third of the world's traded oil is shipped. With the help of Beijing and Moscow, Teheran is becoming an increasingly unappealing military target for the US."
CONCLUSIONTo the discerning Christian, who is continually looking beyond the rhetoric and the news of the day to see how the world is changing in ways foretold in Scriptural prophecy, this vast arming of China, coupled with the completion of an all-weather road which runs from China to Israel's doorstep, causes a very loud warning siren to go off in your mind.
China is literally preparing for the time in the 7-year Tribulation Period, when both America and Russia are destroyed, and the "Kings of the East" are summoned by the demonic host to march along that all-weather road to Israel's border, preparing for attack. Along the way, this massive Chinese force will kill and kill and kill some more, all according to prophecy.
And, when these 200,000,000 troops surround Jerusalem, Jesus will come to kill them instantly with the sword of His mouth (Rev 19:14-15).
This tremendous event should not be called "The Battle of Armageddon", but "The Slaughter of Armageddon". In one instant, every one of these soldiers will die. And, the Lord has prepared for the disposal of their bodies.
"Then I saw a single angel stationed in the sun's light, and with a mighty voice he shouted to all the birds that fly across the sky, Come, gather yourselves together for the great supper of God, That you may feast on the flesh of rulers, the flesh of generals and captains, the flesh of powerful and mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all humanity, both free and slave, both small and great!" (Revelation 19:17-18; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary)
Now, you know why God is causing the buzzard - vulture population to simply explode these past 10 years in Israel (NEWS1951). God is causing all pieces to finally fall into place.
China In Prophecy
Scriptures rarely go outside the confines of the ancient Roman Empire in predicting future events. An exception to this is the statement found in Isaiah 49:12 relating to the ultimate regathering of the nation Israel, “Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.” Although it is not possible to be dogmatic as to the precise reference of “the land of Sinim,” conservative scholarship has generally agreed that the most probable explanation is that this refers to the ancient land of China.
It is known that China for centuries was a great nation and had its own culture and extensive history long before Christ was born in Bethlehem.
It is possible to trace some commercial relationships with China in ancient days as far as the Mediterranean and there is also evidence that some of the history of the Old Testament was known in China. Even if the Chinese had not penetrated as far west as the Mediterranean, the world-wide scattering of the people of Israel would inevitably have brought some of them to the great land of China. Under these circumstances, the prophecy assumes a logical and natural interpretation, namely, that in the end time some of the Jews who will be regathered will come not only from the north and the west, the more important directions of concentration of Jewish population, but also from the east. Although this prophecy is not related to events which concern the nations, it does indicate that the Scriptures recognize the existence of the Far East in relation to the Holy Land.
The Magi From The East
One of the most familiar Biblical references to the Far East is related to the visit of the Magi as they brought gifts to the Christ child. According to Matthew 2:1, 2, “Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”
It has been commonly held from the times of the early church fathers that these strange visitors came from the area east of the Euphrates and probably from ancient Persia. The Persian origin of the Magi was suggested by such men as Clement of Alexandria, Diodorus of Tarsus, Chrysostom, and Cyril of Alexandria. Somehow the Messianic hope had been transmitted in some form even to this distant land. The star appearing over Bethlehem prompted their journey and inquiry concerning the birth of the King of the Jews. The fact that they wanted to worship Him and recognized Him as the King of the Jews reveals that the basic facts concerning the Old Testament were more widely known than is commonly realized. As in the case of the reference to the land of Sinim, the story in the New Testament gives added support to the conclusion that the Bible includes the Orient in its world-wide view.
Daniel’s Prophecy Of A Military Invasion From The Far East
In Daniel’s prophecy of “the time of the end” beginning in Daniel 11:35, a king is pictured in the Mediterranean area who engages in a military conflict with the king of the south, the king of the north, and a military force from the east. Although identification of this king is difficult, the most plausible explanation is that he is the head of the revived Roman Empire who at this point has assumed the role of a world dictator. In the period just prior to the second coming of Christ in the latter part of the great tribulation, major portions of the world will rebel against him. This explains the military conflict with armies pushing against him from the south, the north, and from the east.
In the prophecy it is stated in Daniel 11:44, “But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.” Although the information given is meager, in the light of the context it appears that these tidings concern a military invasion from the Orient. This is probably the first word of trouble in the Orient in relation to his world-wide empire and comes as an added blow to insurrection in the north and the south. It appears that he is victorious in his preliminary battles with the north and the south, as it states in Daniel 11:44, “therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.” But that the conflict is not completely resolved, is borne out by the fact that at the time of the second coming of Christ a great war is under way in which the armies are deployed over much of the Holy Land with the valley of Armageddon as its focal point. The statement in Daniel, however, introduces a subject concerning which there is additional revelation given in the New Testament that lends support to the concept that the Orient will have a place in the great world conflict of the end time.
The Great Army From The Orient
Two important passages in Revelation, namely, 9:13-21 and 16:12-16 contribute to the conclusion that one of the large armies employed in the final world conflict will be a military force of great power which comes from the Orient. The first intimation of this is found in Revelation 9 where it is recorded that John heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates, And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them (verses 13-16).
The passage goes on to describe the character of this army and the conclusion that one-third of the men were killed in the resulting military struggle.
Although all of the details are not entirely clear, the most reasonable explanation of this prophecy, related as it is to the great river Euphrates which forms the eastern boundary of the ancient Roman Empire, is that the army comes from the Orient and crosses the Euphrates River in order to participate in the struggle that is going on in the land of Israel. The information that it is prepared for “an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men” means simply that it is an army especially prepared for the day of battle which follows.
A most staggering statistic is the fact that the number of the horsemen is declared to be two hundred thousand thousand or two hundred million. Never in the history of the human race until now has there been an army of this size. The total number of men under arms in World War II on both sides of the conflict together never was more than fifty million. Accordingly, it has been the custom for expositors to spiritualize the number or to regard the army as demonic rather than human. The statistics of two hundred million horsemen must have been especially astounding to the Apostle John for at that time the total world population did not exceed this number. With the twentieth century and its attendant population explosion, however, the number of an army of two hundred million men becomes increasingly a possibility and with modern transportation and means of supply, for the first time in history such an army is plausible. It is at least of more than passing interest that Red China alone claims to have a man and woman militia engaging in serious training numbering two hundred million (Time, May 21, 1965, page 35), precisely the figure mentioned in Revelation 9:16.
Although their militia includes the home guard which under present circumstances would not be thrown into a battle such as the one in Revelation, it at least introduces the possibility that the number should be taken literally. If so, this is an imposing statistic of the power and influence of the Orient in the final world war. The deadly character of the army is revealed in their slaughter of one third, a figure mentioned in Revelation 9:15 and again in Revelation 9:18. Although it may not be intended to consider this as one third of the entire world’s population, the implication is that many millions of people are involved.
The Kings Of The East
A later development in prophetic fulfillment is portrayed in the sixth vial described in Revelation 16:12-16. There it is recorded, “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared” (Revelation 16:12). Revelation 16:14 reveals that this movement is part of a world-wide gathering of “the kings of the earth and of the whole world” in order that they might participate in “the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” The focal point of the gathering is mentioned as Armageddon in Revelation 16:16.
Many interpretations have arisen concerning the meaning of the phrase “the kings of the east.” These interpretations may be divided into two classes, those that take this phrase literally, and those who find in it a nonliteral meaning. If the nonliteral interpretation be followed there is no end to the possible interpretation. The kings of the east have been connected with almost every important set of characters in the world. The bewildering array of conflicting opinions is its own refutation.
The kings of the east have been identified with the Dacians who conquered Rome and the Euphrates is then taken to represent the Danube. Others relate the kings of the east to the Parthians who contended against Rome at the Euphrates. Some have referred it to the people of Israel returning to their ancient land or identified it with the kingdom of God or Christianity. Some think it refers to the ten kings of Revelation 17:12; others have related it to the Apostles or to the four angels of Revelation 9:14, 15. Still other explanations have been given such as relating it to Vitringa, or Constantine the Great, or to Gog and Magog, or Turkey, and still other interpretations too numerous to mention. A method of interpretation yielding so many different results is obviously wrong in principle.
The most simple and suitable explanation is to take the passage literally. The Euphrates River then becomes the geographic boundary of the ancient Roman Empire. The kings of the east are kings from the east or “of the sunrising,” that is, monarchs who originated in the Orient. The battle which ensues is therefore a genuine military conflict.
The Drying Up Of The Euphrates River
The interpretation of this difficult passage, if taken literally, provides an important segment of information concerning the final world conflict. The prophecy begins with a reference to the Euphrates River and the declaration that “the water thereof was dried up.” Just what is meant?
From the standpoint of Scripture, the Euphrates River is one of the important rivers of the world. The first reference is found in Genesis 2:10-14 where it is included as one of the four rivers having its source in the garden of Eden. The Euphrates River is mentioned a total of nineteen times in the Old Testament and twice in the New Testament. In Genesis 15:18 it is cited as the eastern boundary of the land promised to Israel. An army, therefore, which crosses the Euphrates River from the east to the west by this act invades the Promised Land.
The Euphrates River is important in some of the major events of the Bible. Although not mentioned by name in Daniel 5, it was the diversion of the Euphrates River from its normal course through the midst of Babylon that left the river channel dry and permitted the armies of Darius the Mede to take the city by storm on the memorable night of Belshazzar’s feast (Daniel 5). Therefore the drying up of the Euphrates contributed to the downfall of Babylon. There seems to be a connotation in that the drying of the Euphrates River in Revelation 16:12 will lead to the downfall of the revived Roman Empire which spiritually and politically is also identified with Babylon.
The drying up of the Euphrates, however, is probably best interpreted as a literal but miraculous drying up of the Euphrates River thereby permitting easy access of the military hordes from the Orient to cross its dry river bed. The Euphrates River has long been an important geographic barrier and in the ancient world was second to none in importance. Its total length was some seventeen hundred miles, and it was the main river of southwestern Asia dividing the land geographically much as the Mississippi River divides North America. Not only from the standpoint of prophecy, but historically, geographically, and biblically the Euphrates River is the most important in the ancient world. To take it literally is therefore not a strange or an unnatural conclusion.
The drying up of the Euphrates is pictured an act of God. This has inspired all sorts of nonliteral interpretations as symbolizing some great victory of God.
In the past this has been suggestive of the declining power of Turkey, or as anticipating a future decline in the Roman Catholic Church. Although Turkey has receded in power, there is no evidence that this applies to Rome or any other ecclesiastical organization. It is rather a physical act permitting the army to cross the Euphrates much as was enacted in God drying up the waters of the Red Sea and of the Jordan to permit the passage of the children of Israel without difficulty. Inasmuch as such a literal interpretation makes a great deal of sense and there is no agreement as to the spiritualized meaning of the passage, the literal interpretation is obviously to be preferred.
If the drying of the Euphrates River is to be taken literally, then what can be understood by the reference to “the kings of the east”? Here again the literal view is to be preferred. Inasmuch as it would be most natural in a world war culminating in the Middle East to have the Orient represented, the interpretation that views the kings of the east as the political and military leaders of Asiatic forces east of the Euphrates is a satisfactory solution.
There has been some tendency to take the expression “the kings of the east”—literally, “the kings of the sunrise”—as referring specifically to Japan where the rising sun is a symbol of its political power. However, it is more natural to consider the term “rising sun” as a synonym for east, and therefore the army would include all the nations of the Orient. If the army is literally two hundred million, it would hardly be possible for Japan alone to staff, maintain, and move such a gigantic force without help from China, India, and other great nations of the Orient.
Conclusion
The ultimate explanation is therefore relatively a simple one. By an act of God the Euphrates River is dried up. This makes easy the descent of the tremendous army of two hundred million men upon the land of Israel to participate in the final world conflict. If such an army is to be raised up, it would be natural to conclude that it would come from Asia, the great population center of the world. Although they seem to come in opposition to the Roman ruler and his power, it is clear that this invasion springs from unbelief and these armies like the others gathered “to the battle of that great day of God Almighty” forget their individual conflicts to oppose the coming of Jesus Christ in power and glory from heaven.
The fact that the rise of Asia has occurred in our twentieth century with so many rapid and unexpected developments is another evidence that the world is moving toward its final climax and the end of the times of the Gentiles. In Asia, as in other parts of the world, the stage is being set for the final drama in which the kings of the east will have their important part.
CHINESE MILITARY LEADER SAYS “EXTERMINATION” OF USA IS CHINA’S GOAL
All Americans should know the vital information that is in the first link below. It should be the lead story on all TV national news programs, but the media will cover up this story. It is a report from the website of the World Tribune, and it reveals what is really on the minds of China’s Communist leaders as they are in the midst of a massive military build-up. The author, Lev Navrozov, is a Russian émigré trying to warn the Western world about the danger that it faces from China, Russia, etc. Mr. Navrozov cites an English-language version of “a speech delivered by Chi Haotian, the Minister of National Defense of China up to 2004 and a top military analyst today.” In other words, this was not a random statement by a low-level functionary of the Chinese Communist Party. He was the Chinese equivalent of the US Secretary of Defense so his statement clearly expressed official Chinese policy.
Mr. Haotian stated in his speech (obviously given in China and not expected to be read by anyone in English) that Chinese national policy should be “exterminating the population of the United States.” That is correct. You read it right.
This top-level Chinese military strategist’s speech was given a title indicating that “World War III Is Not Far from Us,” and he expects China’s war against the USA to result in China’s domination of the 21st century. Mr. Haotian likened the superiority of the Chinese race over all other races in language that literally cited Hitler’s racial superiority language which directly led to World War II. Chinese officials are now obviously replicating the same plan to impose their “superiority” upon the world the same way Hitler planned to impose “Aryan superiority” on the world–via aggressive warfare. Mr. Haotian’s speech openly discusses whether China’s “surprise attack on the United States” will succeed quickly or will result in retaliation from the USA. He indicates a personal willingness to sacrifice half the Chinese population in order to “exterminate” the US population.
This speech by a top Chinese official was given in 2004, and is only recently making its way into English-language media. This confirms, beyond all doubt, that all current Chinese actions are part of a war planning effort by China against the USA. China is waging war already vs. the USA monetarily, economically, electronically via hacker attacks, etc. China’s war has been going on for at least a decade. The book, Unrestricted Warfare, published by Pan American Publishing Co. in 1999, includes an English translation of the war plans “To Destroy America” prepared for the Chinese military by Colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui and originally published in Chinese by the People’s Liberation Army of China. It calls for China “to wage total war against the USA.” The book’s introduction (in English) states these Chinese war plans vs. America are “known to the CIA as well as to America’s national security establishment.” However, the American people haven’t been told. The American establishment media is keeping them “in the dark” about this existential threat to the existence to ALL Americans, regardless of race, ethnicity, political-affiliation, gender, etc. The book, Unrestricted Warfare, also cites Chi Haotian as saying “War [with the US] is inevitable; we cannot avoid it.” The books cites Chinese strategy is to cripple the USA by all possible means (economic, monetary, electronic warfare, etc.) in order to weaken America so it cannot defend itself vs. a Chinese military attack, as blogs in my “Archives” have previously discussed. A recent blog at this site also examine the nanotechnology bomb which is being developed by China which intends to combine nanotechnology with human genome research to create “nanobots” which will attack and kill a target population (i.e. the USA) without damaging land and properties. The second link below details how China has gained such a stranglehold over US financial/monetary policy that the USA’s leaders can no longer act in America’s national security interests. They won’t tell you this, of course. They will keep you distracted with media fluff (the most recent being the endless coverage about Michael Jackson).
Over 25 centuries, ago, God inspired the prophet Ezekiel to give a warning for the latter days to the “latter day” descendants of the ten tribes of Israel (called “Israel” in Ezekiel 38-39–the Jewish nation in the Mideast is called “Judah” in biblical prophecy and “Judah” is not mentioned anywhere in Ezekiel 38-39). My books (available on-line at www.bibleblessings.net) detail abundant evidence from secular and biblical sources that the modern nations of the USA, the UK and many western nations are the nations called “Israel” in the Bible. This prophecy warns in verses 2-6 that an alliance will come into existence in the latter days of this age (see verses 8 and 16) which would be led by Russia (Gog, Magog, Meshech and Tubal), China (Gomer and all his bands) and Iran (Persia). These nations are all in alliance right now and they are allied vs. the western nations and coordinating their national actions to wage war against them, exactly as Ezekiel 38-39 prophesied. Obviously, for a prophecy 2500 years old to be brought to pass in great detail in our modern world means (A) the Bible really is the Word of an Creator God, (8 that Creator God is bringing to pass these prophecies right in front of our eyes, and © that we live in the “latter days” when this prophecy will be fulfilled. The stark reality of this message will not please many, however, world geopolitics are now setting the stage for the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38-39′s prophecy in the years ahead of us.
Whenever the tribes of Israel sinned in the Bible, God often punished them by bringing invading armies into their land to give them national “spankings.” You can read the book of Judges, I and II Samuel, I and II Kings and I and II Chronicles to see many such invasions detailed. God says in Malachi 3:6 “I change not.” Therefore, we can expect God to do the same thing now to modern “Israel” as he did to ancient “Israel” when it rebelled against God and his laws. Ezekiel 38 even reveals the specific nations that are destined to attack “Israel” to punish it for its national sinfulness in the latter days (Ezekiel 39:7 adds that the modern ten tribes of Israel will be polluting God’s name regularly in the latter days when the Russian-Chinese-Iranian attack is launched). God has even given us the Russian-Chinese attack plan. Ezekiel 38:15-16 reveals they will cover North America and Europe “like a cloud” (an aerial attack) from out of the “north.” If I were planning the Russian-Chinese attack against North America, I’d infiltrate special forces troops to seize all major Alaskan airports and launch a “24/7″ aerial operation (along with sending maritime container vessels filled with Chinese troops and armor) to pour many millions of Russian, Chinese, etc. troops into North America and send them south into the USA like a tidal wave. The USA has foolishly worn out its military in Iraq and Afghanistan and has very few ground forces available in North America to repel such an invasion. Russia and China would also attack as many US military bases and civilian infrastructure targets at the same time to cripple the entire USA (and Europe) as the attack begins.
God says in Ezekiel 38:10 that He will put it into the minds of Russia’s and China’s leaders to launch this attack at a time of God’s choosing. God will allow America and the other so-called Christian nations a space of time to repent, but if we do not repent, the hammer blow of total war will fall on the American homeland. The good news is that God will eventually save the nations of the tribes of Israel and rescue them from this attack and he calls on the attacked nations to fight back against their invaders (38:21), but he gives us no guarantees how far he will allow this invasion to proceed before he intervenes. There will be no human “deliverer” this time. The deliverer will be the Messiah, Jesus Christ, who intervenes with his heavenly army to slay the attackers on a massive scale (Ezekiel 38:20-39:8 describe this Divine intervention as does Revelation 19:11-21).
If you wish to read about Ezekiel 38-39′s prophecy in much greater detail, I invite you to read my article What Ezekiel 38-39 Reveal about a Future World War III, available by clicking on the articles link at the homepage of this website. To hear an audio message which addresses the subject of who is “Israel” in the modern world and the ramifications of Ezekiel 38′s prophecy, I invite you to listen to a sermon I gave last Sunday at Church at the Gate in Sioux Falls, SD on this very topic. You can listen to this message by clicking on the last link below.
The open admission by a top Chinese military official (now finally reported by the World Tribune) that they intend to invade and exterminate America graphically confirms Ezekiel 38 will surely be fulfilled at some point in the years ahead of us. God does not give us a date for this invasion, but America is running out of time.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/W...v0527_06_26.asp
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/02/trade-war...o-renminbi.html
http://churchatthegate.com/podcast/2009-07-05.mp3
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"Your grandchildren will live under communism."
“You Americans are so gullible.
No, you won’t accept
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outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
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."
We’ll so weaken your
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until you’ll
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like overripe fruit into our hands."
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
That is so weird. Exekiel 38 - 39 was in my devotions yesterday. When I read it, I immediately thought of Russia. Everything from plundering a wealthy nation to evil thoughts to sending an army.
Domine, dirige nos.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
It's still guessing. My point here is that the Bible is not based on "factual accounts" for much of what is written. It's based on opinion of some long-dead guys that wrote the material. Whether they were being factual or NOT is debatable.
You can build a logical guess on facts as you can see them happening. That is "The Russians have moved tactical nuclear weapons nearer to NATO positions".
That is a statement of fact. It's a verifiable piece of information that has a basis in reality. We know the Russians did this. We can guess any of several reasons for them doing so. We can also surmised that over time these weapons could become a serious threat to our NATO allies (or us as the case might be). We can even guess when, why and how those devices might be used.
You simply can NOT pull the same pieces of information out of a hundreds-of-years old religious text and decide that the "Russians will use tactical nuclear weapons against NATO" or "China will call in US debt, thus destroying the US's ability to exist."
There's simply ZERO relationship to the Bible, the US, Russia and China. Only China existed when the Bible was written - and even that isn't certain.
You can't? It's pretty simple. The Bible is really about "how to act". It's not about "HOW THE FUTURE WILL BE". Period. It's about how people should behave to other people. It's a teaching tool.I just can’t buy into the notion that studying either one - the Bible or current China events - will provide more accurate predictions.
What the Chinese do in the recent, historical past, which is completely documented by the way, becomes a teaching tool as well, but it is teaching "how others act" based on current and recent historical facts. There's a very BIG difference.
The Bible is based on faith. Facts, however, are facts and you don't have to take it on faith, you can see it with your own eyes.
No, in the case of taking facts and making a prediction, this is called a "hypothesis" - an educated guess. You and I might read what China has been doing for the past three years, including their own words about how they want to have a war with the United States by 2013 - and decide to "guess" that they will have a war with us by 2013.In both cases, that would be like predicting predictions.
That's still an educated guess and obviously way to far out to predict accurately, but it is a viable option for the Chinese.
Guessing they won't be Communist by 2013 has absolutely NO basis in fact, nothing in their behavior would suggest such a thing even possible, let along probable.
Then you are believing that everything in the Bible is absolutely true, factual and verifiable. Can you actually verify it? Can you show me what makes it true? Can you prove to me that Jericho fell when Sampson destroyed the walls? Can you prove to me without any doubt that Noah walked this planet and the flood happened? Can you show me absolutely that God created the Heavens and the Earth. The Earth was without form and void...?If you follow me.
You see, for me, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt the Bible does indeed foretell future events.
You can't prove those things. None of them. I know you can't and you know you can't so we take them on FAITH. None of those things give us an insight into our future. They are so distantly back in the beginning of human time sense that they might has well never have happened.
Those things that matter for making a future, true, and relatively accurate prediction are those things we can see in the here and now, observe and examine objectively and based on past behavior make a prediction of future behavior (of individuals and countries).
You and I agree 100% I seeThe issue is applying current events to Bible prophecy.
And can I prove those last 2 statements? Nope.
I think that's where you get hung up. It's faith, and not hard science.
I'm actually not "hung up". I do see these things. The difference in me and everyone else on this planet is, I don't take one side of a particular issues and get stuck in some pigeonhole someone created for me.
I guess we're making two similar, but different points here.
I don't see and can't ever see, where the Bible can make "predictions of current events". The Bible was written LONG ago, and I don't care how many of us think we remember things from day to day - the writers having visions wrote those things down over a long stretch of time and there is NO WAY THEIR OBSERVATIONS ABOUT A VISION are going to be accurate hundreds and thousands of years later.
Taking Nostrodamas' quatrains as an example - he wrote those things nearly 600 years ago, he wrote them in code, and in several languages mixed together.
How anyone can take his material as any sort of truth prediction is beyond me. Visions of what? How could he even know enough words to describe a nuclear weapon vision, or wars, or buildings falling down?
How could John the Apostle - or any one else named John - write something 2000 years ago and predict that our world would end now, (yesterday, day after tomorrow, etc) or any time based solely upon a vision?
(I wonder at times what kind of mushrooms these guys were eating.)
If I can look and see, right now that Russia and China are doing massive build ups of arms I can predict either a war in their future (with us, each other or someone else). You can look at Revelations and say "See!? Gog and Magog! Look! It's coming true."
Neither one of us is likely to be right. But then, I'd be willing to take the word of an analyst over that of a preacher.
(My final word is this.... if you're being attacked by a mugger with a gun and you know you're about to die if you don't do something yourself, are you going to PRAY to God, or Jesus to save you... or are you going to do what you know, absolutely in your heart of hearts you can do to stop this guy and logically, with all probability, win against him? -- I think Praying is great before and after, but not during a fight.)
Libertatem Prius!
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Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
May I see Biblical evidence for your claims?
Domine, dirige nos.
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
Michael, your Irish is showing in your language again. /chucklesAnd there be no 'Rapture Bus' to escape the Great Tribulation.
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Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
That's a good question, Wonderwoman....
I mean, think about it. Where WOULD you find Biblical evidence for any of the above?
Answer? You wouldn't.
No where in the Bible is Russia mentioned!
/grin
(Hint: Ezk:38:2,3)
Last edited by American Patriot; December 2nd, 2010 at 20:37.
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Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
This right here is the core of our differing opinion.
I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the stories in the Bible are based on facts.
You believe otherwise, as you stated above.
So would it be safe for me to surmise that you consider the study of foreign relations, intel analysis, et al. as "factual based," and Biblical studies as "non-factual based?"
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
We agree on this.
Russia, China and their allies are now on the rise...time will tell how this unfolds.
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Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
"Your grandchildren will live under communism."
“You Americans are so gullible.
No, you won’t accept
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outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.
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."
We’ll so weaken your
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until you’ll
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like overripe fruit into our hands."
Re: Trans-Asian Axis in Revelation?
No... not precisely. I didn't say I didn't believe the stories at all.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the stories were true.
I'm not talking specifically about stories in the Bible, I'm talking about the names applied to whomever it was the folks on the vision quests saw. That is... who is "Gog" and "Magog"? We in modern times ASSUME they are talking about Russia, or China (or whomever).
I don't disbelieve the Bible at all Backstop. I question the logic in using a book - specifically a religious book - to "predict" the future.
I much prefer using hard, fast science and factual real-time data to predict what is going to happen tomorrow, than to use centuries old material that really does NOT apply in any way, shape or form to modern thinking.
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