Egypt is collapsing!

[American Patriot]

I suppose to some extent you're correct and generalizations are wrong. Which is why I am doing it.

You see, I've put up with it for so long now in the US with the Left "generalizing" against everyone from the Right Wing president to the people who have similar thinking that it's become simply a type of defense mechanism.

The truth IS I'm not like what I portray at all. When I say "animals" I'm referring to those who are killing indiscriminately. And to be honest if other Muslims are remaining silent, then they are JUST as culpable as those committing the crimes.

And for the record, while the other Germans didn't go along with the system, they remained silent, fought on the wrong side and died for something Hitler believed in.... so.... there you go.

[Ryan Ruck]

Unless and until the GENERAL Muslim population revolts against that crap, they are all in the same boat.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Before Muslims want to be taken seriously as a "Religion of Peace", they will need to undergo their own Reformation.

Until then I will see them as adherents to a religion that advocates things like:

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

And that is just one of any number of violent passages in their Holy Book.

Yeah, we can dig things out of the Bible but I will surely guarantee that those are Old Testament verses that are no longer observed.

No worries dude, it was just so much text and information and I simply didn't have the time to read it all

If I can recommend, take the time to read it all. There is a lot of good information in there. Learned a couple new things myself!

I know you're new to the board so if I can recommend, this is a site where a lot of in depth news articles and papers get posted. Some of them many, many pages long. No you don't have to thoroughly study them all but, to get the most out of the site I would suggest being prepared to do serious reading!

You can always take a break from that in some of the less serious forums though.

I understand your point of view and I agree with you in many points. The only problem I have -as I mentioned - is the generalization "Muslims are animals". "They" -there is no such thing as "they" - it may be a group of people or the majority - but you can't judge a billion people. Not every msulim is a hardliner. It's like saying that every German was a nazi back in world War II - there were also people who didn't agree with the system.

I am far from wanting to begin an argument here, and as I said, I totally understand your position -I am just no friend of generalizations since we are all individuals

I'll agree that generalizations can be wrong. BUT... Statistical trends can be determined.

The facts are that 96% of black voters voted for Obama. So, if I walk into a room of black voters, I've only got a 4% chance of being wrong if I generalize and address them as "Obama voters". In fact, I sent a fair bit of money to one of those 4% exceptions during the Republican nomination.

If it's one thing I like, it is hard numbers. True that numbers can be manipulated but, assuming the data is accurate, the truth can always be dug out.

Here's some interesting information from Gallup. I'm sure this has been posted at some point in this or another thread but I'll go ahead and post it again:

Iranians, Egyptians, Turks: Contrasting Views on Sharia

As you can see, the majority in 2 of those 3 countries want Sharia law involved in their national governments. The same set of laws that are in desperate need of reform.

[American Patriot]

No worries dude, it was just so much text and information and I simply didn't have the time to read it all

I understand your point of view and I agree with you in many points. The only problem I have -as I mentioned - is the generalization "Muslims are animals". "They" -there is no such thing as "they" - it may be a group of people or the majority - but you can't judge a billion people. Not every msulim is a hardliner. It's like saying that every German was a nazi back in world War II - there were also people who didn't agree with the system.

I am far from wanting to begin an argument here, and as I said, I totally understand your position -I am just no friend of generalizations since we are all individuals

Well, Fussy, check this one out.... here's your "not animals". This is one of their religious leaders. So, now tell me, if a Catholic Priest said the same thing, that it was ok to beat your wife, as long as you don't hit her in the face, do you think that anyone would stand for that? Do you think ONE non-Catholic would say "Oh, its ok, it's their religion".


Egyptian Islamic cleric says 'beating wife okay, as long as it's not on face'

Aug 1, 10:20 am

Washington, August 1 (ANI): An Egyptian cleric has said on a religious television show that it's okay for Muslim husbands to beat wives, so long as they didn't hit them on their faces.


The Washington Times reports that cleric Mahmoud Al-Denawy responded to a question from a woman of Norway during a June 17 show on African Iqra TV that asked 'What's the Islamic view on the beating of wives?'


According to the reports the cleric also said that non-believers of Islam often use that issue as a point of criticism.


He further clarified that if a woman disobeys her husband, then the husband should first try to verbally correct her.


If that doesn't work, he should then move to a different bed. And the last resort should be to beat her gently, but not on her face the report added.(ANI)

[BRVoice]

Putin visit to Cairo impending. El-Sisi moves to outlaw Brotherhood. US in blocking mode

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report August 3, 2013, 10:08 AM (IDT)

President Vladimir Putin is set to visit to Cairo – possibly next Wednesday Aug. 7 – on the advice of Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan, debkafile reports exclusively.

The prince landed in Moscow Wednesday, July 31 without warning. He told Putin that Saudi King Abdullah was in favor of the Russian president going to Cairo as soon as possible and did not rule out the visit occasioning the signing of a large Russian arms sale to Egypt, bankrolled by the oil kingdom.

Putin will find Egypt’s strongman, Defense Minister Gen. Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi, in full cry with his next steps against the Muslim Brotherhood, after unseating its president in a coup on July 3.

El-Sisi is holding urgent discussions with the heads of the judiciary to have the movement outlawed. The unwritten pact between the generals and judicial system is the most potent political force in Egypt today, which the Brotherhood will find hard to beat.

The army’s first action will be to break up the round-the-clock protests which tens of thousands of supporters of the ousted president Mohamed Morsi have been staging in Cairo for the past month for his release and reinstatement.

Wednesday, July 31, their sit-in was ruled a threat to national security. For the next step, soldiers of the Republican Guard division, whose normal duties are guarding the president, have been issued with police uniforms for a more acceptable appearance when they clear protesters off the streets of the capital any day now.

The prospect of a Russian presidential visit has fired Gen. El-Sisi with redoubled energy and impetus for his crackdown on the Brotherhood.

For Putin, this will be his second trip to Cairo; his first took place in 2005 when Hosni Mubarak was president. He will play it to the hilt as a platform to show the world, and especially Arab Muslims, that he alone of the world’s five leading powers is openly committed to fighting radical Islam and ready to assist any Arab leader sharing this commitment.

He will also try and use his Cairo visit for much needed image repairs over his backing for Bashar Assad and Hizballah terrorist fighters in their savage war against a rebellion led by the Muslim Brotherhood and al Qaeda affiliates. Putin hopes to come away from Cairo as champion of the war on radical Islam in two important Arab countries and the most reliable ally of forces for moderation.

His next stop around mid-August is Tehran. This will be hard to explain away as a gesture of support of a moderate regime, but with some fast footwork, the Russian leader will use the double exposure to underscore Moscow’s solid presence at the power centers of the Middle East - in striking contrast to Washington.

The Obama administration is already seething over the Kremlin’s decision to grant the fugitive former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden temporary asylum in Russia for escaping trial in the States on a charge of espionage.

Even more painful knocks are in store for Barack Obama’s Middle East policy and prestige when Egypt’s military strongman proceeds to outlaw the Muslim Brotherhood movement in defiance of his wishes and Putin turns up in Cairo with more provocations.

Secretary of State John Kerry, aware of the shoals ahead for Washington, sent European Union foreign policy executive Catherine Ashton to Cairo earlier this week, followed by German Foreign Minister Guido Westerweller Friday, Aug 2, to try and hold El-Sisi’s hand.

When they got nowhere, Kerry assigned US Undersecretary of State for the Middle East William Burns with paying a second visit to Cairo since the coup. He has an appointment to meet interim Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy Saturday, Aug. 3, and is waiting for one with the defense minister.

Burns came away from his first trip to Cairo empty-handed.

[American Patriot]

6:33 a.m. EDT August 14, 2013

(Photo: Khaled Desouki, AFP/Getty)

Story Highlights

• Reuters reports 15 killed; Muslim Brotherhood puts figure far higher
• At least 250 have died in clashes after President Morsi's ouster July 3
• Al-Arabiya TV showed images of smoke from tear gas and burning tires

CAIRO — Protesters ran from Egyptian security forces Wednesday that used tear gas and armored vehicles to clear out two sit-ins of thousands of people demanding the return of ousted president Mohamed Morsi.


The crackdown unleashed chaos across the capital. Smoke spread across the sky from fires smoldering in the streets. The sit-ins were largely abandoned, heaped with charred tent poles and tarps.


Reports differed over the number of people killed and injured in the melee. Trains stopped operating and banks closed.


Reuters news agency reported that witnesses said 15 people were killed. The state news agency MENA reported that eight people were killed and 82 people injured, including two police officers.


Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Gehad El-Haddad said on Twitter that at least 250 people were killed, as number that was well above other estimates. In previous clashes the Brotherhood has put the death toll higher than official figures.


Protesters, many of whom were members of Morsi's Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, told reporters that government forces used live fire against them. The Interior Ministry said only tear gas was used.


Army troops did not take part in the clearing out of the two sit-ins but provided security at both spots. Police and army helicopters hovered over both sites as officers chased after people they said were wanted for instigating violence.


Bearded men could be seen handcuffed and sitting along sidewalks not far from the larger protest camp outside the Rabaa Al-Adawiya mosque in Cairo's Nasr City. The Interior Ministry, which is in charge of the police, said live fire came from the camp when security moved in to clear it out.


The Ministry said it was searching for more people wanted for questioning by prosecutors, and that some may have been hiding out in the mosque.


At least 200 people have been arrested at the two camps, the Ministry has said. The smaller of the two sit-ins, at Nahda Square, had been cleared and sealed off by security forces, according to witness reports.


At the Rabaa Al-Awadiya camp, a protester said snipers were everywhere.


"People are dying — women, children," said Hesham Al Ashry, a pro-Morsi protester who follows hardline Islamic ideology, speaking frantically from inside the sit-in.
He threatened that the United States could face consequences for the violence.


"They have to be clear as soon as possible that this is a military, bloody coup," he said amid sounds of gunfire. "If the United States does not take a clear stance, there will be no embassy here and no Americans anywhere in the Middle East. Tell them to wake up and say: This is a military coup."


The U.S. Embassy in Cairo closed its consular services starting at 1 p.m. local time as retaliatory attacks erupted across the country. Morsi, the nation's first freely elected leader, was ousted by the military July 3 after he forced through changes to the constitution that appeared to curtail freedoms, ignored the rulings of the Supreme Court and encouraged violence against his opponents.


On Wednesday there was protests and clashes outside Cairo as well between demonstrators and security forces, according to witnesses and local news reports.


Brotherhood loyalists torched a church in the Upper Egyptian city of Sohag and set fire to police vehicles in Assuit. In Suez, they blocked a road by setting car tires on fire, the state news agency said. Police stations across the country were attacked, and in Fayoum, Morsi supporters set fire to a Christian youth center, local press reports said.


"The people of Egypt will take to every square in Egypt — Cairo, Alexandria, Tanta, and in Upper Egypt," said Mohammed Attiya, a supporter of Morsi as he went to a protest in the Nile Delta. "They will be there until they end the coup."


Supporters of Morsi have maintained the two main Cairo sit-ins for over a month despite threats by authorities that they will be dispersed by security forces. Protesters said they would not leave and demanded Morsi's reinstatement.


"People elected Morsi and voted for the constitution and the parliament," said Abou Zeid Badr, 30, at the Nahda sit-in Tuesday night. "And these votes were crushed by the military."


Leading up to the clashes Wednesday have been several battles between Morsi supporters and military-backed forces. At least 130 people have been killed in two separate clashes that erupted in July.


The military has jailed numerous Brotherhood leaders. Islamist television stations have been shut down. Morsi is being detained under house arrest. An interim government made up of Brotherhood opponents and the military is moving ahead with a transitional plan and working to draft a new constitution.


Analysts said the situation will not be resolved by crackdowns. They say the interim government must take steps that the majority of Egyptians would support, such as measures to boost employment and incomes. Egypt's economy has been ruined by the unrest, and tourism, one of the country's major industries, has fallen dramatically.


"The deep roots of the crisis need to be addressed and what we're seeing is the temporary manifestation of the anger of the Muslim Brotherhood," said political analyst Mazen Hassan, in Cairo. "It will be a mistake to think (authorities) can end this crisis by dispersing them."


Unlike sit-ins over the past two and a half years, since the uprising against Hosni Mubarak in 2011, authorities in early August called the pro-Morsi camps a threat to national security.


The sit-ins were also more fortified than any previous protest camps, likely making it more difficult for security to break them up and creating a landscape that could lead to more casualties, Hassan said. The Rabaa camp was protected by several sets of walls made from pavement stones and piles of sandbags, which also secured the perimeter of the Nahda sit-in.


Human rights groups had warned against forcefully dispersing the camps and foreign diplomats over the past few weeks flooded into the capital to help resolve the crisis. Authorities, however, said that international effort failed.


Over the past six weeks, the sit-ins grew into self-sufficient hamlets. Protesters created extensive security networks, with volunteers at Nahda Square checking identification cards, searching cameras and cars and seeking to weed out secret police. If suspects were caught, they were forced to give testimony and a copy of their ID, Ghaffar said.
Demonstrators stayed in tents made from wooden frames, drew electricity from lampposts, built restrooms, established a garbage collection network and hosted organized activities including soccer games at the Rabaa sit-in. Meals were distributed and makeshift hospitals were established.


"People gave us money — donations — or medicine, and we also bought supplies," said Mohammed Ads, a medical student who volunteered at an emergency hospital established Tuesday in Rabaa Al-Adawiya in anticipation of the looming need to treat the wounded.

[American Patriot]

Not nice...

British cameraman for Sky News killed in Egypt

A British cameraman working for Sky News was killed today as Egyptian forces moved in to clear protesters demanding the reinstatement of ousted president Mohamed Morsi.

Micked Deane was killed today in Egypt while covering the pro-Morsi protests. Photo: SKY








By Sam Marsden

2:20PM BST 14 Aug 2013





Mick Deane, 61, was shot during the raid on activists camped in Rabaa al-Adawiya Square in Cairo, where thousands of supporters of Mr Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood had staged a six-week sit-in.



No other members of the Sky News team covering the violence in Egypt were hurt.



Mr Deane, who was married with two sons, had worked for the channel for 15 years, based in Washington DC and Jerusalem.



John Ryley, the head of Sky News, described him as “the very best of cameramen, a brilliant journalist and an inspiring mentor to many at Sky”.



He added: “The loss of a much-loved colleague will be deeply felt across Sky News. Our thoughts and prayers are with his wife and family. We will give them our full support at this extremely difficult time.”



Tim Marshall, Sky News’s foreign affairs editor, said Mr Deane was "brave as a lion" at the same time as being humane, "humorous and wise".


David Cameron, the Prime Minister, added: "I am saddened to hear of the death of cameraman Mick Deane, covering Egyptian violence. My thoughts are with his family and Sky News team."


A second journalist was also shot dead in Rabaa al-Adawiya Square today.


Habiba Ahmed Abd Elaziz, 26, a police and courts reporter for the United Arab Emirates-based Xpress newspaper, was not on an official assignment and had returned to her native Egypt on annual leave, her employer said.


Her younger sister, Arwa Ramadan, who lives in Sharjah in the UAE, said the young journalist had been in the square’s mosque this morning.


Her mother spoke to her on the phone early in the day, but when she rang back at midday there was no response.


“She called again, and somebody picked up the phone and told her Habiba was dead. My dad, who is in Egypt right now, confirmed it later,” Ms Ramadan said.


Mazhar Farooqui, the deputy editor of Xpress, said: “It’s hard to believe she’s gone. She was passionate about her work and had a promising career ahead.”

[American Patriot]

Egypt VP has resigned.

more than 100 dead.

Violence spreading.

[American Patriot]

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/ne...ds-4731885.php

CAIRO (AP) — Egypt's vice president and pro-reform leader Mohamed ElBaradei has resigned to protest deadly police assaults against two sit-in protest camps by supporters of the ousted president.
ElBaradei submitted his resignation Wednesday in a letter to interim President Adly Mansour. A copy was emailed to The Associated Press.
He says he is not prepared to be held responsible for a "single drop of blood" and warns that violence will breed more violence and the country is more polarized than it was when he took office.
El-Baradei was named Mansour's deputy for foreign relations last month.

[Ryan Ruck]

Boy, things sure went to pot in no time there.



All the while Obama fiddles while the Middle East burns. Well done Obama!

[Malsua]

Glad those peace loving muslims get along so well, imagine if they were violent?

[American Patriot]

It's nice to see they are so peaceful, and the damage is mostly to buildings, cars, and some random rocks laying around. Only about 145 people have actually been affected (by death) so it's good to see that more can live in the conditions they have created among themselves.

I wonder where they are getting food?

[BRVoice]

US-Egyptian relations on the rocks. El-Sisi wouldn’t accept Obama’s phone call

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report August 15, 2013, 3:03 PM (IDT)



Gen. El-Sisi and President Obama viewed on Egyptian street


When the clashes between Egyptian security forces and pro-Morsi protesters were at their peak in Cairo Wednesday, Aug. 14 – 525 dead and 3,700 wounded to date - President Barack Obama put in a call to Egypt’s strongman, Defense Minister Gen. Abdel-Fattah El-Sissi, debkafile’s intelligence sources report. The US president wanted to give the general a dressing-down much on the lines of the call he made to former president Hosni Mubarak in February 2011 at the high point of the Arab Spring Tahrir Sq demonstrations against his rule, namely: Stop repressing the protesters and firing live ammunition. Step down!

When Mubarak asked for a three or four days’ grace to break up the massed rally, Obama shot back that he has to quit NOW!

And indeed, on Feb. 11, the army announced the president’s resignation.

Realizing what was coming, Gen. El-Sissi decided not to accept President Obama’s call, our sources report. The Egyptian officials who received it informed the US president politely that the right person for him to address was Egypt’s interim president Adly Mansour and they would be glad to transfer the call to him. The White House callers declined.

This anecdote shows that the military strongman is not only determined to avoid the pitfalls which brought Mubarak down but is equally determined to keep the US administration from interfering in his plans for driving the Muslim Brotherhood out of Egyptian politics.

Diplomatic condemnation of those plans is building up inWestern capitals. Wednesday night, the Obama White House issued a statement strongly condemning “the use of violence against protesters in Egypt” and the state of emergency. Egyptian ambassadors in Paris, London and Berlin received denunciations and expressions of concern from their host governments, and Turkey demanded a UN Security Council emergency session on the situation in Egypt.

debkafile’s sources report that harsh international condemnation of Gen. El-Sissi’s crackdown will do more harm than good. The backlash will come in three forms:


1. The Muslim Brotherhood will be encouraged to pursue increasingly extreme measures to fight the Egyptian army in the expectation of international applause.

2. The generals will be encouraged to escalate their steps for repressing the Brotherhood.

3. The Saudis and the Gulf Emirates will redouble their support for the Egyptian general and his campaign against the Brotherhood. This will widen the rift between those Arab rulers and the Obama administration.

Our intelligence sources also disclose that, while President Obama was trying to get through to Gen. El-Sissi, the general was on the phone with Prince Bandar, Director of Saudi Intelligence.

On July 31, Bandar arrived in Moscow and was immediately received by President Vladimir Putin for a conversation that lasted four hours. The Saudi prince next received an invitation to visit Washington at his earliest convenience and meet with President Obama.

Bandar has still not responded to that invitation.

Clearly, the US president’s problem with the Egyptian situation is a lot more complicated than pulling the army off the Muslim Brotherhood’s backs. He needs to somehow snap the strategic alliance unfolding between Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and the rapport between the Egyptian general and the Saudi prince.

[vector7]

Egypt Death Toll Rises to Stunning 525 in Clashes Between Police and Morsi Supporters

Aug. 15, 2013 8:44am Madeleine Morgenstern

CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian authorities on Thursday significantly raised the death toll from clashes the previous day between police and supporters of the ousted Islamist president, saying more than 500 people died and laying bare the extent of the violence that swept much of the country and prompted the government to declare a nationwide state of emergency and a nighttime curfew.

The death toll, which stood at 525, according to the latest Health Ministry figures, makes Wednesday by far the deadliest day since the 2011 popular uprising that toppled longtime ruler and autocrat Hosni Mubarak — a grim milestone that does not bode well for the future of a nation roiled in turmoil and divisions for the past 2 ½ years.


An Egyptian woman mourns over the body of her daughter wrapped in a shroud at a mosque in Cairo on August 15, 2013, following a crackdown on the protest camps of supporters of ousted Islamist President Mohamed Morsi the previous day. (Getty Images)

Health Ministry spokesman Khaled el-Khateeb put the number of the injured on Wednesday at 3,717.

Near the site of one of the smashed encampments of ousted President Mohammed Morsi’s supporters in the eastern Nasr City suburb, an Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw dozens of blood soaked bodies stored inside a mosque. The bodies were wrapped in sheets and still unclaimed by families.

Relatives at the scene were uncovering the faces in an attempt to identify their loved ones. Many complained that authorities were preventing them from obtaining permits to bury them.

El-Khateeb said 202 of the 525 were killed in the Nasr City protest camp, but it was not immediately clear whether the bodies at the mosque were included in that figure.

Wednesday’s violence started with riot police raiding and clearing out the two camps, sparking clashes there and elsewhere in the Egyptian capital and other cities.
Cairo, a city of some 18 million people, was uncharacteristically quiet Thursday, with only a fraction of its usually hectic traffic and many stores and government offices shuttered. Many people hunkered down at home for fear of more violence. Banks and the stock market were closed.
A garbage collector walks through the destroyed camp of ousted Mohammed Morsi supporters outside Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque on August 15, 2013 in Cairo, Egypt. (Getty Images)

The latest events in Egypt drew widespread condemnation from the Muslim world and the West, including the United States, Egypt’s main foreign backer for over 30 years.

Nobel Peace Prize winner Mohamed ElBaradei resigned later Wednesday as Egypt’s interim vice president in protest — a blow to the new leadership’s credibility with the pro-reform movement.

Interim Prime Minister Hazem el-Beblawi said in a televised address to the nation that it was a “difficult day” and that he regretted the bloodshed but offered no apologies for moving against Morsi’s supporters, saying they were given ample warnings to leave and he had tried foreign mediation efforts.

The leaders of Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood called it a “massacre.” Several prominent Brotherhood figures were detained as police swept through the two sit-in sites, scores of other Islamists were taken into custody, and the future of the once-banned movement was uncertain.


Egyptian army soldiers greet each other as they stand guard outside the Rabaah al-Adawiya mosque, in the center of the largest protest camp of supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi, that was cleared by security forces, in the district of Nasr City, Cairo, Egypt, Thursday, Aug. 15, 2013. (AP)

Backed by helicopters, police fired tear gas and used armored bulldozers to plow into the barricades at the two protest camps on opposite ends of Cairo. Morsi’s supporters had been camped out since before he was ousted by a July 3 coup that followed days of mass protests by millions of Egyptians demanding that he step down.

The smaller camp — near Cairo University in Giza — was cleared of protesters relatively quickly, but it took about 12 hours for police to take control of the main sit-in site near the Rabaah al-Adawiya Mosque in Nasr City that has served as the epicenter of the pro-Morsi campaign and had drawn chanting throngs of men, women and children only days earlier.

After the police moved on the camps, street battles broke out in Cairo and other cities across Egypt. Government buildings and police stations were attacked, roads were blocked, and Christian churches were torched, Interior Minister Mohammed Ibrahim said.

At one point, protesters trapped a police Humvee on an overpass near the Nasr City camp and pushed it off, according to images posted on social networking sites that showed an injured policeman on the ground below, near a pool of blood and the overturned vehicle.


Egyptian government employees clean up outside the Rabaah al-Adawiya mosque, in the center of the largest protest camp of supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi, that was cleared by security forces, in the district of Nasr City, Cairo, Egypt, Thursday, Aug. 15, 2013. (AP)

Three journalists were among the dead: Mick Deane, 61, a cameraman for British broadcaster Sky News; Habiba Ahmed Abd Elaziz, 26, a reporter for the Gulf News, a state-backed newspaper in the United Arab Emirates; and Ahmed Abdel Gawad, who wrote for Egypt’s state-run newspaper Al Akhbar. Deane and Elaziz were shot to death, their employers said, while the Egyptian Press Syndicate, a journalists’ union, said it had no information on how Gawad was killed.

The turmoil was the latest chapter in a bitter standoff between Morsi’s supporters and the interim leadership that took over the Arab world’s most populous country. The military ousted Morsi after millions of Egyptians massed in the streets at the end of June to call for him to step down, accusing him of giving the Brotherhood undue influence and failing to implement vital reforms or bolster the ailing economy.

Morsi has been held at an undisclosed location since July 3. Other Brotherhood leaders have been charged with inciting violence or conspiring in the killing of protesters.

A security official said 200 protesters were arrested at both camps. Several men could be seen walking with their hands up as they were led away by black-clad police.

The Brotherhood has spent most of the 85 years since its creation as an outlawed group or enduring crackdowns by successive governments. The latest developments could provide authorities with the grounds to once again declare it an illegal group and consign it to the political wilderness.

In his televised address, el-Beblawi said the government could not indefinitely tolerate a challenge to authority that the 6-week-old protests represented.

“We want to see a civilian state in Egypt, not a military state and not a religious state,” he said.

But the resignation of ElBaradei, the former head of the U.N. nuclear agency and a figure widely respected by Western governments, was the first crack to emerge in the government as a result of the violence.

ElBaradei had made it clear in recent weeks that he was against the use of force to end the protests. At least 250 people have died in previous clashes since the coup that ousted Morsi, Egypt’s first freely elected president.


Abandoned shoes are seen outside the Rabaah al-Adawiya mosque, in the center of the largest protest camp of supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi, that was cleared by security forces, in the district of Nasr City, Cairo, Egypt, Thursday, Aug. 15, 2013. (AP)

On Wednesday, his letter of resignation to interim President Adly Mansour carried an ominous message to a nation already torn by more than two years of turmoil.

“It has become difficult for me to continue to take responsibility for decisions I disapprove of, and I fear their consequences,” he said in the letter that was emailed to The Associated Press. “I cannot take responsibility before God, my conscience and country for a single drop of blood, especially because I know it was possible to spare it.


An Egyptian man cleans his hands outside the charred remains of the Rabaah al-Adawiya mosque, in the center of the largest protest camp of supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi, that was cleared by security forces, in the district of Nasr city, Cairo, Egypt, Thursday, Aug. 15, 2013. (AP)

The National Salvation front, the main opposition grouping that he headed during Morsi’s year in office, said it regretted his departure and complained that it was not consulted beforehand. Tamarod, the youth group behind the mass anti-Morsi protests that preceded the coup, said ElBaradei was dodging his responsibility at a time when his services were needed.

Sheik Ahmed el-Tayeb, the powerful head of Al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam’s main seat of learning, also sought to distance himself from the violence. He said in a statement he had no prior knowledge of the action.

[vector7]

Muslim Brotherhood Supporters Attack Churches Around Egypt in Apparent Retaliation for Military Crackdown as 149 People Killed

Aug. 14, 2013 12:48pm Sharona Schwartz

While most headlines from Egypt are focused on Wednesday’s violent dispersal of Muslim Brotherhood supporter sit-ins — latest death toll placed at 149, per the Associated Press — Christians in the embattled country are facing what’s being described as “a black day” as their churches are being attacked and torched by angry Islamists.

Supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi set fire to churches around Egypt in apparent retaliation for the police dispersing the pro-Morsi demonstrations in Cairo. According to AFP, three churches were attacked, but other outlets place the number higher.


Blogger The Big Pharaoh tweeted this photo of a church burned in Suez, Egypt on Wednesday (Image source: Twitter)

Egypt-watchers and reporters are using terms such as “unprecedented,” a sectarian “catastrophe” and “a literal pogrom” to describe the unfolding of events Wednesday.

One Twitter user called it “a black day in the Coptic modern history.”

The Egyptian blogger The Big Pharaoh reported that the St. Theresa Church in Assiut in Upper Egypt was set ablaze and that both the St. James monastery and a Jesuit nuns’ school in Meniah “a very old building” were burned down. Churches in Arish and Ezbet el-Nakhl in Greater Cairo were also “torched,” The Big Pharaoh blogger reported.


Daily News Egypt reported that this church in Beni Suef was also set on fire (Image source: Daily News Egypt)

“I think the magnitude and geographical spread of the attacks on Christians didn’t happen before since the mid ages,” the blogger tweeted.

It’s unclear if the attacks were orchestrated in advance, but Eric Trager, an Egypt expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy tweeted, “Hideous & typical. MT @basildabh: FJP accuses ‘Christian thugs under police’ of dispersing Sohag pro-Morsi dem” referring to the Muslim Brotherhood linked Freedom and Justice Party.

Hideous & typical. MT @basildabh: FJP accuses “Christian thugs under police” of dispersing Sohag pro-Morsi dem http://t.co/u7TBIkfUbU August 14, 2013 9:02am via Twitter for AndroidReplyRetweetFavorite

@EricTrager18 Eric Trager تراجر

AFP reports that attackers threw Molotov cocktails at the Coptic Christian Mar Gergiss Church in Sohag, a city with a large Christian population. Egypt’s MENA news agency reported that the church burned down. This is the same church where Islamists raised an Al Qaeda flag last week, as TheBlaze reported.

Security officials speaking to AFP confirmed the bloggers’ reports that another two churches were attacked in the Meniah province, but that partial damage resulted.

According to International Business Times, the churches attacked were the Church of Abraham and the Church of the Virgin Mary in Meniah. The outlet reported that Morsi supporters set fire to the buildings’ exteriors then smashed through doors.

The Bon Pasteur Catholic Church and Monastery in Suez was also reportedly attacked with Molotov cocktails and the smashing of windows.

The Maspero Youth Union which represents Coptic Christians is accusing the Muslim Brotherhood of “waging a war of retaliation” against Christians.

Israel National News conveyed these reports of the attacks on Christians:

In Fayoum, in Upper Egypt, pro-Morsi supporters set fire to a Christian youth center located next to the Muslim youth center where they had been protesting, according to a report on Ahram Arabic cited by the BBC.

Ahram Arabic also reported that pro-Morsi supporters threw fire bombs at the Al-Raey Al-Saleh Church and set three military vehicles on fire. Clashes are ongoing between protesters and military forces.

The Gamaa Islamiya – Islamic Group – urged loyalists “enraged by police attacks on the Rabaa and Nahda sit-ins,” not to assault “Christians or their religious buildings,” Israel National News reported.

According to the Associated Press, Egypt’s official news agency reported that 149 people were killed in Wednesday’s clashes across the country between Morsi’s supporters and security forces. A Health Ministry spokesman said 1,403 people were wounded.



Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi supporters torch Egyptian churches

By BENJAMIN WEINTHAL
08/15/2013 01:36

Anti-Coptic violence taking place within "a general culture of impunity," Canadian MP Irwin Cotler says.


ISLAMISTS TAKE cover as they battle riot police and soldiers in Cairo’s Rabaa Adawiya Square, Aug 14 Photo: REUTERS

Islamic supporters of Egypt’s ousted president Mohamed Morsi launched on Wednesday arson attacks against churches, resulting in the destruction of at least three buildings. Muslim Brotherhood supporters wreaked havoc on Coptic Christian businesses and property throughout the country.

There may have been more than 20 incidents of burning of churches and attacks on Christian institutions, based on unconfirmed reports on Twitter from Coptic leaders and organizations who are closely following the outbreak of anti-Christian violence.

Related:

• Some 300 killed in Egypt crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood
• Analysis: It’s official, military chief Sisi is new king of Egypt

Bishop Anba Suriel, the bishop for the Coptic Orthodox Church in Melbourne, wrote on his Twitter micro blog, “over 20 separate attacks on churches and Christian institutions all over Egypt.”

Suriel added, ”These attacks on the Copts is unprecedented in the modern era.” He called on the international community not to be passive.

The Egyptian state news agency Mena reported assaults on three churches, including the destruction of the Mar Gergiss church. AFP reported that the attackers tossed firebombs at Mar Gergiss in Sohag, on the west bank of the Nile. The city of Sohag has a large Coptic community.

AFP reported two churches were attacked in El-Menia province, causing fire damage to both buildings.

There were reports that one of Egypt’s oldest churches, the fourth century Virgin Mary in Minya, was engulfed in flames.

Speaking with The Jerusalem Post from Ottawa, Irwin Cotler, a former Canadian justice minister and current Liberal MP, said the “Army should be providing more protection to the Copts.”

Cotler spearheaded a report – Securing the Human Rights of Coptic Christians in Egypt After the Arab Spring – in Canada’s Parliament in May to protect the rights of Copts and “hold those responsible for attacks on Copts.”

The anti-Christian violence by radical Islamists and Muslim Brotherhood supporters is taking place within “a general culture of impunity,” he said.

Suriel complained on his Twitter feed that Western media have ignored the violent attacks.

Dexter Van Zile, the Christian media analyst for the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America, told the Post, “The bishop has a legitimate beef with people.”

The “silence is troubling” from “the people charged with promoting human rights,” Van Zile said. “Progressive Christianity does not want to confront Islamic violence.”

Van Zile added it is “outrageous” that Copts are being scapegoated for the ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated president Morsi.

Writing on the website of the conservative National Review, Andrew C. McCarthy, a leading US expert on radical Islam, blamed Western media reports for ignoring and distorting the “Islamic supremacist aggression against Egypt’s Christians – which was a prominent feature of Muslim Brotherhood governance.”

He blasted Wednesday’s AFP report for exculpating “the Islamic supremacists by editorializing, in the report, that these were ‘reprisal’ attacks.”

McCarthy wrote, “The Brotherhood is not ‘retaliating’ against Christians. Islamic supremacists are persecuting Christians... which is what they do in Muslim-majority countries.”

The Egyptian news outlet Daily News reported “two churches in the Fayoum village of Al-Nazla were set on fire, in addition to the local Christian Friendship club.”

“Mary Mina Church and its services building were set on fire,” said Basem Beshay, the media officer of the local Dostour Party branch.

According to the Daily News, Beshay added, “The Third Apostolic Church, its medical center and the house of the priest were set on fire by protesters.”

Beshay said arson attacks targeted a Christian-owned pharmacy and an interior design store in Minya.

The violence on Wednesday comes after the shooting of a young Coptic girl in Cairo last week. After completing her Bible class at the Ahmed Esmat
Street Evangelical Church, Jessi Boulus was shot. Her uncle works as a pastor at the church.

[BRVoice]

Obama Policies Turning Egypt Against U.S.

Pro-military Egyptians want to shift to Russian alliance
BY: Bill Gertz
August 15, 2013 5:00 am


The Obama administration support for Muslim Brotherhood Islamists in Egypt is driving the powerful military there against the United States and toward Moscow, according to U.S. officials and reports from the region.

The pro-Muslim Brotherhood stance is undermining decades of U.S. policy toward the Middle East state and prompting concerns that the United States is about to “lose” Egypt as a strategic partner, said officials familiar with intelligence reports.

Disclosure of the concern over the administration’s policy failure in Egypt comes as a security crackdown on pro-Muslim Brotherhood supporters in Cairo resulted in scores killed.

“The Obama administration’s blatant Islamist support is risking the decades-long security arrangement with Egypt,” one U.S. official told the Washington Free Beacon.

“The Egyptians are so upset they might very well give up our support,” the official added, noting the military regime is currently leaning toward seeking backing from Russia, and possibly China in the future.

The United States has provided Egypt with more than $49 billion in both military and economic assistance since 1979. Cairo was viewed as a key strategic partner in the region.

However, the 2011 ouster of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, a long-time U.S. ally, as part of the pro-democracy Arab Spring movement began a shift in U.S. policy. At that time, the Obama administration began covertly backing the Muslim Brotherhood, an anti-democratic Islamist group.

The policy shift was a marked change from past policy. During the 1970s, the United States successfully diverted Egypt’s alignment with Soviet Union under Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser by developing close ties to Nasser’s successor, Anwar Sadat, and later Mubarak.

“The administration, through a combination of ignorance, incompetence and support for the Islamists is reversing the strategy gains we made in Egypt,” the official said.

State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf rejected assertions that the United States is supporting the Muslim Brotherhood.

“We’ve been clear that we don’t support any one party or one group in Egypt, period,” Harf said.

“The future of the Egyptian government is up to the people of Egypt themselves to decide,” she said. “The notion that we are supporting one side over another in Egypt is a total falsehood. We will continue working with all parties and all groups—including the interim government—to help facilitate a move towards an inclusive, democratic process.”

According to the officials, the failed policy toward Egypt is bipartisan. The recent visit to Egypt by Republican Sens. John McCain (Ariz.) and Lindsey Graham (S.C.) was widely viewed by Egyptian civilian and military leaders as tacit support for the Muslim Brotherhood. Graham and McCain said their visit was to support democracy in Egypt, but they criticized the military coup.

McCain was among the first lawmakers to call for a cutoff of support to the interim Egyptian government after the ouster of Mohamed Morsi, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist group that is seeking to impose Sharia law as a guiding ideology.

On Sunday, McCain said on “Fox News Sunday” that he was concerned about the outbreak of violence and he criticized the administration for refusing to call the military takeover a coup d’état.

“The fact is that it was a coup, and now they have jailed the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood and the previous government, and that is not the way to bring about reconciliation,” McCain said.

Morsi, who was democratically elected, was thrown out of office by the military on June 30 following large-scale demonstrations by pro-democracy and anti-Muslim Brotherhood protesters in Cairo. Other Brotherhood leaders also were arrested and placed under house arrest.

In response, Islamists have been staging large-scale protests in the streets of Cairo since then, culminating in the crackdown by security forces. News reports put the death toll as of Wednesday afternoon at 278, with more than a thousand injured by gunfire and tear gas.

Secretary of State John Kerry in a statement Wednesday condemned the violence in Egypt.

“The United States strongly supports the Egyptian people’s hope for a prompt and sustainable transition to an inclusive, tolerant, civilian-led democracy,” he said.

U.S. officials said there are signs Egypt’s military is taking steps to expand control over the political system.

Current Defense Minister Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is being touted by government controlled news media as a patriotic, Nasser-like figure who should run for president.

According to the officials, since the June 30 military takeover, pro-military groups and backers of the new regime are promoting anti-American policies in news outlets.

The campaign, which appears to have high-level Egyptian military support, also calls for shifting Egypt’s alliance from the United States to Russia.

Numerous photos promoting the theme have appeared at rallies and on social media in the past month and half.

The campaign also has included an effort to expel U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson, who the pro-militarists say was a backer of the Muslim Brotherhood.

A military source was quoted in the Egyptian newspaper Al-Youm al-Sabi as saying Patterson was responsible for the killing of Muslim Brotherhood protesters at Rab’a al Adawiya following a reported meeting between her and senior Muslim Brotherhood officials. The reported plot was discussed at a hotel that called for a plan to foment violence that would justify military intervention and sanctions against Egypt.

On Twitter, a pro-military politician, Mustafa Bakri, criticized President Barack Obama for delaying the sale of four F-16 jets to Egypt and called the president “an ally” of the Brotherhood.

In tandem with the anti-U.S. campaign, pro-military news outlets have been promoting a shift in policy toward Russia. The Al Watan newspaper on July 29 quoted several Egyptian foreign affairs experts as urging the government to replace the United States with Russia as a key ally, based on the failure of the U.S. government to support the military takeover.

A pro-military online forum called the “Arabic Military” on July 29 quoted “diplomatic sources” as saying Putin would soon visit Egypt in the aftermath of calls for a reevaluation of U.S.-Egypt ties.

Russia is known to be seeking a foothold in the Middle East following the turmoil in Syria that prompted a Russian pullout of from the port of Tartus.

Russia also is setting up a new naval headquarters in the Mediterranean.

Other pro-military Facebook pages have criticized Obama and praised Putin. One site called “Egypt will Not Fall” praised Putin as “great Caesar and leader” who is offering to sell Egypt 55 MiG fighter jets to replace the U.S. F-16s.

[BRVoice]

Israel stays clear of Egyptian crisis, fearing Russian military’s return to a second border after Syria

DEBKAfile Special Report August 19, 2013, 11:45 AM (IDT)


Egyptian military ruler Gen. Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi


Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Republics – not Israel - are lobbying the West for support of the Egyptian military. Their campaign is orchestrated by Saudi Director of Intelligence Prince Bandar Bin Sultan - not an anonymous senior Israeli official as claimed by the New York Times, debkafile’s Middle East sources report. The prince is wielding the Russian threat (Remember the Red Peril?) as his most potent weapon for pulling Washington and Brussels behind Egypt’s military chief Gen. Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi and away from recriminations for his deadly crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood.

The veteran Saudi diplomat’s message is blunt: Failing a radical Western about-turn in favor of the Egyptian military, Cairo will turn to Moscow. In no time, Russian arms and military experts will again be swarming over Egypt, 41 years after they were thrown out by the late president Anwar Sadat in 1972.

Implied in Bandar’s message is the availability of Saudi financing for Egyptian arms purchases from Moscow. Therefore, if President Barack Obama yields to pressure and cuts off military aid to post-coup Cairo, America’s strategic partnership with this important Arab nation may go by the board.

It is not clear to what extent Russian President Vladimir Putin is an active party in the Saudi drive on behalf of the Egyptian military ruler. On July 31, during his four-hour meeting with Prince Bandar, he listened to a Saudi proposition for the two countries to set up an economic-military-diplomatic partnership as payment for Russian backing for Cairo.

Last Friday, Aug. 16, Putin convened his elite military and intelligence chiefs for an extraordinary meeting in the Kremlin to discuss the Saudi proposition. No decisions were reported - only a suggestive quote from Putin saying that the session was called to “discuss the situation in Egypt and take the necessary steps to the put Russian military facilities at the Egyptian military disposal.” He added that “Russia will arrange for joint military exercises with the Egyptian army.”

Both notions were left dangling without elaboration, a lure without a commitment.

The New York Times of Sunday and Monday (Aug. 18-19) pushed an account of Israel’s diplomats suggesting they were fanning out across Western capitals to urge them to support Egyptian Defense Minister Gen. El-Sisi despite his suppression of the Muslim Brotherhood, with the argument: “At this point, it’s army or anarchy.”

This entire conception doesn’t hold water. From Israel’s perspective, the Bandar initiative if it takes off would lead to the undesirable consequence of a Russian military presence in Egypt as well as Syria. This would exacerbate an already fragile - if not perilous situation – closing in on Israel from the south as well as from the north.

The Israeli and Egyptian armies strictly limit their cooperation to counterterrorist action in Sinai against al Qaeda, Salafist and other terrorists threatening both countries and the Suez Canal international waterway. Even then, the IDF does not go beyond responding to Egyptian requests in cases of mutual security concern. Israel has absolutely no involvement in Gen. El-Sisi’s war on the Muslim Brotherhood.

On the diplomatic front, Israel’s assets barely hold their own against the hostile Palestinian propaganda permeating Western capitals - least of all come up with the strength and skills for orchestrating a campaign on behalf of Egypt, as the NYT seems to believe.

Indeed, Israel has been extremely wary of any association with the Egyptian defense minister’s domestic affairs out of the cold calculation. If it suited his political and domestic agenda, the general might easily turn around and accuse Israel of unwarranted meddling as his fall guy.

On Saturday, Aug. 17, El-Sisi remarked “This is no time to attack the US and Israel, because our first priority is to disband the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Jerusalem found this remark alarming rather than comforting, noting that he made no promises about the future.

[BRVoice]

As Egyptian Churches Are Put To the Torch, Obama’s Reputation Goes Up in Flames

By YOUSSEF IBRAHIM, Special to the Sun | August 18, 2013


As church after church is put to the torch in Egypt by members of the Muslim Brotherhood and its allies, one of the things that is going up in flames is the reputation of President Obama.

In the past 48 hours alone, some 57 Egyptian churches have been burned to the ground in the Nile valley. It will not be lost on the Egyptians that Mr. Obama has spent the crisis playing golf at Martha’s Vineyard.

Scores of Christians are being consumed in this conflagration, some burned beyond recognition defending their churches, even as Mr. Obama’s much-despised envoy in Egypt, Ambassador Patterson, still tries to effect a reconciliation between the the Muslim Brotherhood conducting this devastation and the Egyptians who revolted against the Brotherhood’s rule.

Mr. Obama came out against a pastoral background to urge the Egyptian military and government to take it easy on his favored Islamists and to hint at even more sanctions if they do not. As Mr. Obama retreated back to the beach, his aides warned of a cutoff of the $1.5 billion a year that American has been providing, though such aid is now being overwhelmed with a package of $12 billion that began flowing from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates only last month.

In Arab culture, such language and mannerism, including the wagging of fingers, will be seen as insulting, which at least partly explains the rush by the oil-rich countries to help the revolutionary government in Cairo. Yet America’s problem is larger than finger pointing. The Obama administration is allying itself against those fighting for a secular Arab world, a fight that is now arising across the Arab world. It may be that two decades ago the radical religious ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood won some adherents. But Arabs have long since rejected that siren.

America seems to have trouble catching up.

Enters Egypt, by far the largest and most influential nation. It is a cultural and intellectual soft power, never comfortable with what the Muslim Brotherhood sought to impose under President Morsi. Egypt’s 14 million Christians, descendants of the pharaohs peacefully nestled for centuries among a vast Muslim population found themselves singled out, yet again. It happened many times over the past 14 centuries ever since Muslims invaded Egypt and forcibly converted most of the population, except for those stubborn Coptic Christians who took the pain, but kept their faith.

Coptic is the Pharoes’ name for “Egyptian,“ a little appreciated echo of the fact that all of Egypt was once a Coptic, Christian nation — for a full seven centuries until the Islamic invasion in the seventh century of the common era. It has kept many of those beliefs, assembled mostly around co-existence and absorption as invaders came and went.

Romans, Macedonians, Persians, Christians, Muslims, Ottomans, French and Brits, all traversed the Valley of the Nile, but the essence of Egypt remained deeply Egyptian long after they left. This is the context in which the battle with the Muslim Brotherhood has erupted.They are basically waging a war against the essense of Egypt shared by the majority of the country's 86 million citizens, both Muslims and Christians.

The Brotherhood’s loss, which took a year, was predictable.

When in 2009 President Obama came to Cairo for his first major speech on foreign affairs, he simply made his remarks and walked away, thinking his “Islamist friendship message,“ coupled with his charisma, would be enough. He ignored the Christian Arabs, who have been the bridge between Western and Arab cultures since the 17th century — translators of the greatest works of arts, literature, civilization, theater, and cinema. They, as did Jews living in the Arab world, made an outsized contribution to whatever success has been made toward modernity.

The eviction of the Christians from the Arab world, as the eviction of the Jews before them, is a loss not only for the West but mostly for Arab Muslims. More importantly, it is a crime against humanity. Where is President Obama? Will his silence make him a partner in this crime?

[American Patriot]

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Breaking News: Mubarak cleared of Corruption

He may be released as early as today….
Things aren’t really as they appear, are they?


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August 19, 2013 - Posted by American Patriot | Big Government, Middle East | Administrative law, Cairo, Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, Lawyer, Political Corruption, President of Egypt, Reuters

[Ryan Ruck]

From the Egyptian museum in Malawi...

[Malsua]

Muslims doing what Muslims do.