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Thread: Libya is Beginning to Stir

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Obama: Military action against Libya possible

    © 2011 The Associated Press

    March 7, 2011, 11:57AM


    Pablo Martinez Monsivais AP


    President Barack Obama, right, with Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard, left, during their meeting in the Oval Office of the White House, Monday March, 7, 2011, in Washington.(AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)

    WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama warned Libya's leaders that the U.S. and its NATO allies are still considering military options in response to what he called "unacceptable" violence perpetrated by supporters of Moammar Gadhafi.

    "I want to send a very clear message to those who are around Colonel Gadhafi. It is their choice to make how they operate moving forward. And they will be held accountable for whatever violence continues to take place," Obama said during remarks in the Oval Office Monday.

    Libyan warplanes launched multiple airstrikes Monday on opposition fighters in the second day of a harsh government crackdown to thwart rebels advancing on Gadhafi's stronghold in Tripoli.

    White House spokesman Jay Carney said a military response was no more likely Monday than it was before the surge in violence. He said the U.S. and its partners are considering a wide variety of military actions, including a no-fly zone, but said deploying ground troops "is not top of the list at this point."

    Obama said he has also authorized $15 million in humanitarian aid to help international and non-governmental organizations assist and evacuate people fleeing the violence in Libya. More than 200,000 people have fled the country, most of them foreign workers, creating a humanitarian crisis across the border with Tunisia — another North African country in turmoil after an uprising in January that ousted its longtime leader.

    Hundreds if not thousands of people have died since Libya's uprising began, although tight restrictions on media make it nearly impossible to get an accurate tally.

    The U.S. and United Nations have imposed sanctions on Gadhafi's regime, and U.S. military forces have also moved closer to Libya's shores to back up demands that Gadhafi step down.

    Obama spoke alongside Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard, who is in Washington for meetings.

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  2. #142
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    More than 200,000 people have fled the country, most of them foreign workers, creating a humanitarian crisis across the border with Tunisia — another North African country in turmoil after an uprising in January that ousted its longtime leader.
    I have to think that if Mexico is in flames, and the US starts catching fire, I'm not running into the ruins of another country to "get away".
    Libertatem Prius!


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  3. #143
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Italy's Frattini: If Ghadafi Falls, Refugees Will Overwhelm Europe | Print | E-mail
    Written by R. Cort Kirkwood
    Monday, 07 March 2011 09:19
    0



    If the Libyan government collapses, Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini (photo, left) has warned, Europe may suffer an influx of many as 800,000 refugees.

    Frattini told London’s Telegraph that an exodus of biblical proportions was on the horizon should the dictatorial regime of Moammar Ghadafi fall to the revolutionaries fighting his forces:We know what to expect when the Libyan national system falls — a wave of 200,000 to 300,000 immigrants.

    These are estimates, and on the low side ... It is a Biblical exodus. It’s a problem that no Italian should underestimate.

    Frattini said a third of Libya’s 2.5 million people are immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa who will flee the country if Ghadafi falls. Already, thousands of those immigrants are heading for Tunisia. Last week, the New York Times reported that 90,000 refugees were trying to cross into Tunisia.

    Ghadafi The Border Guard
    Ghadafi, Speigel Online reported in late February, “has enjoyed a cynical role as Europe's border guard against African immigrants.”

    In December, he warned that “Europe will become black” if he decides to pull back his patrol boats that stop refugees from reaching Italy and Greece. Speigel continued:

    Gadhafi in recent years has played up his role as a bulwark against African immigrants to Europe. Italy and Libya began joint naval patrols in 2008 to stop boatloads of illegal or trafficked immigrants from crossing the Mediterranean, and last year Libya signed a €50 billion deal with the European Union to manage its borders as a “transit country” for sub-Saharan Africans.

    According to the Telegraph, since 2008 when those patrols began, the number of refugees entering Italy has dropped dramatically.

    Amnesty International has called upon the German government to help Italy if African refugees flood the country. “Germany has to finally end its obstructionist attitude regarding a common refugee policy in the EU,” said Monike Lüke, the head of Germany’s AI branch, according to Speigel Online.

    Another Italian official, Umberto Bossi, a leader of the anti-immigration Northern League and a minister in the government of Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, said Italy would merely send any Libyan refugees to other countries: “If they arrive we'll send them to France and Germany.”

    Has "Camp of the Saints" Finally Arrived?
    In February,The New American detailed the arrival of 5,000 refugees on the Italian isle of Lampedusa after the government in Tunisia fell. An Italian called that an “unprecedented biblical exodus” as well.

    Tunisians overwhelmed the island. According to The New American,
    Such is the influx to the small island that its Mayor Bernadino Rubeis declared a state of emergency. So did the Italian government. With a population of just 6,000, the arrival of the Tunisians meant the population doubled in just a few days. The Mayor told the Associated Press that Lampedusa’s detention center was unguarded because the island does not have enough police to stand the post.

    Italian Interior Minister Roberto Maroni told the BBC, “It is a question that risks igniting an extremely fast process of change in North African countries, that can have devastating consequences on the institutional and social structures of European nations. ... It’s not a question of traditional immigration involving Italy alone.”

    The frightening influx of Africans to Europe bears an eerie resemblance to the scenario that French novelist Jean Raspail described in his apocalyptic novel, Camp of the Saints, which envisions the collapse of Western Civilization when 1 million Indians, sailing in the “Last Chance Armada,” show up on the shores of France.

    Like the officials who seem powerless to stop the very real immigration crisis facing Europe now, Raspail’s fictive Frenchmen are paralyzed with fear, wondering what to do. In the end, they permit the “Last Chance Armada” to land, which results in the collapse of France and, ultimately, of the West.

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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    How so?

    All Italy and Europe has to do is STOP people from coming in. LOL

    WTF is their problem now? Oh wait, I forgot, Liberals who've already given up their borders. Ok, so again I ask, WTF is their PROBLEM NOW?

    They asked for this.

    They BITCH about us wanting to close our borders for a time... so to hell with them.

    I hope the muslims over run Europe.
    Libertatem Prius!


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  5. #145
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    President of the US and PM of UK (Cameron) just had a conference.

    It appears that "NO FLY" zone is about to become a reality.

    They decided that "regime change" is in the air.....
    Libertatem Prius!


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  6. #146
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    US weighs military action against Libya; Russia objects

    Obama sends 'very clear message to those around Colonel Gaddafi: They will be held accountable for whatever violence continues to take place'; authorizes $15 million in humanitarian aid. Moscow: Foreign intervention not an option

    News agencies


    03.07.11, 20:18

    President Barack Obama warned Libya's leaders that the United States and its NATO allies still are considering military options in response to what he called "unacceptable" violence perpetrated by supporters of Moammar Gaddafi.

    "I want to send a very clear message to those who are around Colonel Gaddafi. It is their choice to make how they operate moving forward. And they will be held accountable for whatever violence continues to take place," Obama said during remarks in the Oval Office Monday.

    Libyan warplanes launched multiple airstrikes Monday on opposition fighters in the second day of a harsh government crackdown to thwart rebels advancing on Gaddafi's stronghold in Tripoli.


    Obama with Aussie PM at White House press conference, Monday (Photo: AP)

    White House spokesman Jay Carney said a military response was no more likely Monday than it was before the surge in violence. He said the US and its partners are considering a wide variety of military actions, including a no-fly zone, but said deploying ground troops "is not top of the list at this point."

    Obama said he has also authorized $15 million in humanitarian aid to help international and non-governmental organizations assist and evacuate people fleeing the violence in Libya.

    More than 200,000 people have fled the country, most of them foreign workers, creating a humanitarian crisis across the border with Tunisia - another North African country in turmoil after an uprising in January that ousted its longtime leader.

    Hundreds if not thousands of people have died since Libya's uprising began, although tight restrictions on media make it nearly impossible to get an accurate tally.

    The US and United Nations have imposed sanctions on Gaddafi's regime, and US military forces have also moved closer to Libya's shores to back up demands that Gaddafi step down.

    Obama spoke alongside Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard, who is in Washington for meetings.

    However, state-controlled news agency RIA Novosti quoted Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying on Monday that Moscow is against any foreign military intervention in Libya.

    "We don't see foreign intervention, moreover the military one, as a means of solving the crisis in Libya. The Libyans have to solve their problems by themselves," Lavrov was quoted as saying.

    AP, Reuters contributed to the report

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  7. #147
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Russia opposes military action on Libya

    Tue Mar 8, 2011 12:20AM
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    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov

    Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says his country is against any form of military intervention in Libya while the US is weighing military option against the North African country.

    “We do not consider foreign and especially military intervention a means to resolve the crisis in Libya. The Libyans must resolve their problems themselves,” Lavrov was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying on Monday.

    Senior US senators John McCain and John Kerry have called on President Barack Obama to impose a no-fly zone over Libya to limit the country's ruler Muammar Gaddafi's ability to crack down on protesters.

    Britain and France are drafting a UN resolution to push ahead with the measure and the proposal could be submitted to the Security Council this week, a diplomat said earlier Monday.

    The Security Council unanimously passed a round of sanctions against the Gaddafi regime and ordered an investigation into Tripoli's crimes against humanity on February 26.

    On Sunday, The New York Times reported that US defense planners were preparing a range of land, sea and air military options in Libya in case Washington and its allies decide to intervene there.

    HSH/MRS/MGH

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
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    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

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  8. #148
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Libya: David Cameron and Barack Obama plan 'full spectrum' of action on Libya

    David Cameron and President Barack Obama have announced a “full spectrum” of action on Libya as Col Muammar Gaddafi’s forces pounded two oil towns in an effort to bring the rebellion against the regime under control.


    Image 1 of 3
    David Cameron and President Barack Obama have announced a 'full spectrum' of action on Libya Photo: PA/EPA


    Image 1 of 3
    An injured rebel fighter is evacuated from Bin Jewad Photo: REX FEATURES


    Image 1 of 3
    A wounded Libyan rebel fighter is evacuated from Bin Jewad Photo: REX FEATURES

    By Richard Spencer, Tripoli, Adrian Blomfield in Brega and James Kirkup, Political Correspondent 9:52PM GMT 08 Mar 2011

    A joint British and US statement said a plan for a no-fly zone, as requested by many of the rebels, was among the ideas being discussed. Action would also include surveillance and enforcement of the arms embargo against Libya.

    The two men spoke as residents of the town of Zawiyah to the west of Tripoli took to the rooftops with loudhailers to appeal to their fellow-citizens not to give up the fight as scores of tanks streamed into the central square.

    Fragmented reports from the town, where telephones, electricity and the internet have all been cut, said shells were hitting residential buildings and mosques and bodies were lying in the streets.

    Television footage of the two-week-long battle for control of the town showed dead bodies of soldiers lying in the streets and casualties pouring into the hospitals.

    In the east of the country, rebel forces managed to maintain control of the town of Ras Lanuf, also seat of an oil terminal, despite aerial bombardment that included at least five air strikes, including on a block of flats.

    Related Articles


    But attempts to break out to the west were met with devastating government firepower, leading to a rebel decision to reinforce its volunteer troops with units of the regular army that have defected to their side but not yet been employed against their former comrades.

    President Obama and his administration have been markedly more reluctant to support a no-fly zone than Mr Cameron and President Nicolas Sarkozy of France. But he has also come under pressure to act as Col Gaddafi’s military fightback has intensified.

    The significance of control over Libya’s oil facilities was emphasised when William Hague, the foreign secretary, told MPs he was considering whether to push for international action to take billions of dollars of Libyan oil revenues away from the Gaddafi regime and put them under United Nations control.

    The plan, inspired by the oil-for-food system imposed on Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, would require a decision by the United Nations Security Council, which is already under pressure to impose a no-fly zone over Libya in light of Col Gaddafi’s use of air power to try to crush the rebellion against his 41-year-rule.

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  9. #149
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Sarkozy to propose air strikes in Libya

    March 11, 2011 - 1:59AM
    AFP

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy will propose air strikes on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's command headquarters to EU leaders, a source close to discussions has told AFP.

    At an EU summit on the Libyan crisis, he will propose "striking an extremely limited number of points which are the source of the most deadly operations" by forces loyal to Gaddafi, the source, who asked not to be named, said on Thursday.

    The three sites being considered are Gaddafi's Bab al-Azizia command headquarters in Tripoli, a military air base in Syrte, east of Tripoli and another in Sebha in the south, the source said.

    Sarkozy's office declined to confirm the claim when contacted by AFP.

    © 2011 AFP

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
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    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
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    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/L...3/10/id/388976


    Libyan Rebel: Hesitation Portends Disaster
    Thursday, 10 Mar 2011 08:02 AM
    By Hiram Reisner

    Libya’s former justice minister, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, who now leads the nation’s opposition, warns if the United States and the international community do not immediately take action, his country will be awash in blood.

    libya, rebel, chief, hesitation, disasterIn an exclusive interview Wednesday, Abdel Jalil – speaking to CNN with a $400,000 bounty placed on his head by Libyan tyrant Moammar Gadhafi – said he has sent a letter to the Obama administration, but has received limited response.

    “It has to be immediate action,” Abdel Jalil told CNN’s Arwa Damon in Benghazi, Libya. “The longer the situation carries on, the more blood is shed. That’s the message that we want to send to the international community. They have to live up to their responsibility with regards to this.”

    Damon asked what communication Abdel Jalil has had with the Obama White House.

    “We sent a written message to President [Barack] Obama, that reached his office a week ago, and we contacted the former ambassador with our request,” he said. “But there has been no real result.

    “We received a message that they are working on a United Nations resolution,” Abdel Jalil continued. “We expect more. The White House and the international community have the means to put an end to what the Libyan people are going through.”

    © Newsmax. All rights reserved.


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    "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



  11. #151
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Libya govt forces hit refinery storage tanks-rebels

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    * FACTBOX-Libya oil production, outage, exports, customers
    7:06am EST



    BREGA, Libya, March 11 | Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:22am EST

    BREGA, Libya, March 11 (Reuters) - Rebels said on Friday that an air strike by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi hit storage tanks of Libya's state-owned Ras Lanuf Oil and Gas Processing Company (RASCO), but the government denied it.

    "Gaddafi planes hit the storage tanks of the RASCO production plant," rebel Colonel Bashir Abdul Qadr told Reuters. His comments were confirmed by two other rebel sources.

    But Libyan state television, quoting a military source, saying that the armed forces had denied it bomb residential areas and a refinery in Ras Lanuf.

    RASCO is a subsidiary of the state-owned National Oil Corp. (Writing by Edmund Blair in Cairo)
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    http://af.reuters.com/article/commod...72B0DW20110312

    Arab League calls for Libya no-fly zone-state TV


    CAIRO, March 12 (Reuters) - The Arab League on Saturday called on the U.N. Security Council to impose a no-fly zone on Libya, Egyptian state television reported, a decision that would give a regional seal of approval that NATO has said is needed for any military action.


    The state television also said the Arab League had decided to open channels of communication with a Libyan rebel council based in Benghazi. The League said the council represented the Libyan people, the channel reported.


    League officials say the body has already been in touch with the rebels about the situation on the ground in Libya. (Writing by Tom Perry)
    I'm taking America back. Step 1: I'm taking my kids out of the public re-education system. They will no longer have liberal bias and lies like this from bullying teachers when I expect them to be taught reading, writing, and arithmetic:
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031201899.html

    2 US warships cross Egypt's Suez Canal


    The Associated Press
    Saturday, March 12, 2011; 10:13 AM



    CAIRO -- Egyptian officials say two U.S. vessels have crossed the Suez Canal en route to the Mediterranean Sea to be close to Libya.


    The nuclear-powered submarine USS Providence and Destroyer USS Mason entered the canal Saturday from the Red Sea.


    The officials said the warships are part of the American carrier battle group led by the USS Enterprise. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.


    U.S. military officials have ordered warships into the Mediterranean in case they are needed for Libya-related operations ranging from humanitarian assistance to possible military action.


    There are at least five major U.S. warships in the Mediterranean, including the USS Kearsarge with a contingent of U.S. Marines on board.
    I'm taking America back. Step 1: I'm taking my kids out of the public re-education system. They will no longer have liberal bias and lies like this from bullying teachers when I expect them to be taught reading, writing, and arithmetic:
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    1. If the Arab League wants a no-fly zone, then they should put up the planes and manpower, not to mention the money, to accomplish such an attempt.

    a. From previous experiences, a no-fly zone costs a helluva lt more than the return.

    b. Such an action or inaction is a trap. It will definitely be used against the West down the road.

    2. From a strictly International Relations/Strategic Studies viewpoint, who would state that it is a legal action for outside States interfering in the internal affairs of another State.

    a. Yes, it is done all the time. Usually, interference runs a good deal short of military intervention. In those instances where military intervention has been used, no good (long-term) has ever come of it. Elephant-like memories are passed down from generation to generation, and at some point the pimple of hate, revenge, and anger pop to create a whole new focal point of bloodshed.

    b. If the backlash against Gadhafi is simply because no one likes him, that is not sufficient justification to get rid of him and his regime. As the existing State, Gadhafi has the right to fight to remain in power.

    c. If the motives against Gadhafi are to ultimately create a democratic form (or republic form) of government in Libya, then I would state that someone has been on the pipe a bit too long.

    d. Ultimately, the people should be able to decide what form of government they wish to experiment with. Unfortunately, history clearly demonstrates time and time again--with no one paying attention, apparently--that outside influences do not make the people's decision a good one.

    3. Ultimately, any outside State should be looking for methods to alleviate the situation without trying to take sides.

    a. It took decades and two world wars to soothe ruffled feathers over Great Britain and France deciding to establsh political and economic ties with the South in our own Civil War.

    b. It will be a very long time before people will forgive the West's involvement in the Serbian-Croatian nations, who felt that they were finally able to vent centuries-old wounds and nursed hurt feelings.

    c. I have read pundits who really believe that in the aftermath of Gadhafi's downfall, intellectual heads will be able to formulate a rather good govenment without having to worry about fanatical elements turning the country into a zealous, terrorist camp. These vary same pundits need to reread their history, as we have seen time and time again the "evil" nature of mankind rising to the forefront, the epitome of society, in the wake of societal turnmoil and unrest. We have only to look at the Nazi party, the Bolsheviks, the Pol Pot, and the radical Samarai of Japan to understand that in the wake of all these people revolutions, a fiercer tigeress will emerge that will have to be eventually taken down as well.

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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    No one can put up a no-fly zone except the US. The Russians cant even do it. LOL

    Wallis, you're still, as usual misinformed.
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    I don't know Rick... We have sold the Saudis, UAE, Bahrainians, and Egyptians some decent equipment such as stripped down F-16s and F-15s and, Qatar has a handful of Mirages.

    Even stripped down, those F-15s and 16swould likely be more than a match for any Libyan aircraft. So I can see where wallis is coming from in saying the Arabs could establish their own no-fly zone over Libya if they wanted to.

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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    I see where he is coming from too.

    Ryan, I've worked with several countries' Air Forces...

    The Saudis have planes, and they even have pilots. Kind of.

    Iraq had "one of the largest armies on the planet" and they had "damned good pilots" before the two wars.

    They didn't have any planes or "pilots left" after.

    I haven't worked with people from Libya - but Libya is a backwoods country compared even to Iraq in it's heyday.

    Wallis, I apologize. Perhaps you could enlighten us on who can lay a no-fly zone better than the United States?
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    It was sarcasm.

    My "real" point was the trap that the Arab Community was laying, whether intended or accidental.

    If the West (like the French who were clamboring for a no-fly zone) were to establish a no-fly zone, thus openly siding with the rebels--whether this would be true or not would be lost in the action, since it would have the appearance of siding with the rebels--then the Arabs can come back later and complain about another Western interference in their internal affairs.

    If the West does not establish a no-fly zone, giving Kaddafi room to flex his military muscle to the fullest--and, as Gen Clapper poignantly pointed out--then the rebellion will fail. The Arab Community can come back later and use this bit of propaganda to continue to fuel their anti-Western rhetoric. Yeah, yeah, they have enough as it is today. But whereas Americans might be forgiving (e.g., remember the Alamo stirs up more thoughts about John Wayne's portrayal of Davy Crocket in the movie than desiring to avenge the deaths of the Alamo's defenders by burying as many Mexicans as humanly possible), very few communities and cultures are. This might be a bit facetious, but I suppose if one really looks into the souls of the Afgans, this still have a "han" against the Greek people for invading their nation two thousand years ago. Anyway, hundreds of years from now, if the U.S. is still around (keeping fingers crossed), future Arabs will bring up this fact when the West either asks for a favor or is willing to do a favor. "Well, you know, we asked for help back in 2011 . . . what did you do? Nothing! And you want to help us now? Get real!"


    ["han" is a Chinese-Korean word that cannot be succinctly translated in a few words. The concept combines a hatred with a never-ending grudge that must never be forgotten because of some insult/injury done by an outside group of people. "My grandmother has a han against the Japanese for what they did in WWII; I must carry on that han in her stead."]

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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Well, regardless of sarcasm or not... at this point in time, a no-fly zone is moot.

    Gadaffi has already taken back the cities from them.

    That means that we (and everyone else) sat on their thumbs long enough to let that murderer get back in power and maintain his hold on the country.

    Had we acted when we first heard of the planes bombing civilians (which we SHOULD have done) then he wouldn't be in power these long, deadly two weeks later.
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    Default Re: Libya is Beginning to Stir

    Amen, Rick.

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