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Thread: Syria

  1. #261
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    Default Re: Syria

    John McCain says US should be 'ashamed' of inaction over Syria conflict

    Republican senator steps up rhetoric against Obama, saying US should not allow Russia and China to dictate intervention






    John McCain said that the US should not allow Moscow and Beijing to stand in the way of intervention. Robyn Beck/AFP/Getty Images

    Senator John McCain has accused Barack Obama of a "disgraceful" abandonment of Syria's revolutionaries, and called on the US administration to defy Russian objections and arm Bashar al-Assad's opponents.



    The Republican former presidential candidate also called for the declaration of safe havens inside Syria, protected by US air power if necessary, after visiting refugee camps at which he said he met women who were raped and soldiers who defected to the opposition.


    "The question is how many more have to die at the hands of this bloody dictator before we intervene?" he told the World at One on BBC Radio. "I think you have to arm the opposition. They are desperate for arms."


    The call from McCain, who is the highest ranking Republican on the armed services committee, will increase the pressure on Obama, who is facing growing demands for stronger action over Syria following the massacre of more than 100 people in Houla last month, including scores of children and women shot execution-style in the head. The president is also being forced to fend off accusations from Republicans that he is failing to stand up to Russia and China, which have blocked tougher measures against Damascus.



    The senator said that the US should not allow Moscow and Beijing to stand in the way and should act unilaterally. "We didn't need a UN resolution in Kosovo and if the United States of America and other countries are willing to turn over the decision making process to the good wishes and motivation of Russia and China then obviously we will do nothing because Russia continues not only to oppose action in the security council but continues to arm Bashar Assad. I'm not ready to base action to help people who are struggling for freedom on whether the Russians will veto any action or not in the security council."


    McCain drew a parallel with US and international inaction over Rwanda as hundreds of thousands of Tutsis were murdered in 1994.



    "You can think of all kinds of reasons not to act. The facts on the ground are indisputable. Bashar Assad is slaughtering and massacring his own people. Torture, rape and murder are matters of doctrine," he said. "We can look back on this as we did with Bosnia and Kosovo with pride or we can look back on it with shame as we did in Rwanda. It's a choice that will have to be made and this administration not only does nothing, when's the last time you heard the president of the United States speak up on behalf of these people who are being slaughtered? It's disgraceful. We should be ashamed."


    Obama has warned against further militarisation of the struggle, saying the last thing Syria needs is more weapons. McCain is dismissive of that argument.


    "I'm always puzzled by statements from our administration and others that they don't want to militarise the conflict. Well Russian arms shipments continue to come in. Iranians are on the ground assisting them. They have tanks and artillery supplied by the Russians and others against people who demonstrate peacefully. That's not a fair fight. That's a militarisation that's already taken place only it's on one side," he said.



    The senator rejected concerns from some in the US Congress that it would be dangerous to arm the Syrian opposition activists when it is not clear what their loyalties or whether they are linked to Islamic extremists. "I heard that same tune as far as Libya was concerned. I heard the same thing in Bosnia and Kosovo by those who simply have a view that we don't intervene to help people who are struggling for their freedom," he said. "These people are the direct repudiation of al-Qaida. Al-Qaida believes in acts of terror to bring about change. These people believe in peaceful demonstrations to bring about change.



    "It's not that difficult to figure out. The question is will we have the intestinal fortitude to act on behalf of these people or sit by and watch."
    Libertatem Prius!


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  2. #262
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    Default Re: Syria

    UPDATE 1-Clinton worried Russia may send Syria helicopters






    Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:35pm EDT

    (Adds Pentagon comments, details)


    (Reuters) - The United States is worried Russia may be sending Syria attack helicopters and views Russian claims that its arms transfers to Syria are unrelated to the conflict there as "patently untrue," U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday.


    "We have confronted the Russians about stopping their continued arms shipments to Syria. They have, from time to time, said that we shouldn't worry - everything they are shipping is unrelated to their (the Syrian government's) actions internally. That's patently untrue," Clinton said at an appearance organized by a think tank.


    "And we are concerned about the latest information we have that there are attack helicopters on the way from Russia to Syria, which will escalate the conflict quite dramatically," she said.


    Clinton did not offer any details about the source of her information about Russia's possible shipment of attack helicopters to Syria. Pentagon spokesman Captain John Kirby said he had no knowledge of a new helicopter shipment but acknowledged that President Bashar al-Assad's regime was turning to helicopters to stage attacks.


    "We know that the Assad regime is using helicopter gun ships against their own people," Kirby said.


    State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said she could not speculate on the source of Clinton's information. The spokeswoman, however, made clear that Clinton's concerns pertained to helicopters now en route to Syria and not about the possible past sale of Russian-origin attack helicopters to Syria.


    Asked whether Russia's resupply of military equipment to Syria was enabling the Syrian armed forces to continue the killings, Kirby said: "To the degree that the Syrian armed forces use that resupply to kill their own people, then yes."


    The 15-month-old conflict in Syria has grown into a full-scale civil war, the U.N. peacekeeping chief said on Tuesday. Many hundreds of people, including civilians, rebels and members of Assad's army and security forces have been killed since a ceasefire deal brokered two months ago was meant to halt the bloodshed. (Reporting by Arshad Mohammed and Phil Stewart; Editing by Sandra Maler and Cynthia Osterman)
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  3. #263
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    Default Re: Syria

    Clinton: Russia sending Syria attack helicopters, US warns of escalation in conflict

    Bradley Klapper, The Associated Press Jun 12, 2012 14:04:00 PM



    WASHINGTON - The Obama administration said Tuesday that Russia is sending attack helicopters to Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime and warned that the Arab country's 15-month conflict could become even deadlier.
    Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. was "concerned about the latest information we have that there are attack helicopters on the way from Russia to Syria."
    She said the shipment "will escalate the conflict quite dramatically."
    Clinton's comments at a public appearance with Israeli President Shimon Peres augured poorly for a peaceful solution to Syria's conflict. Officials from around the world are warning that the violence risks becoming an all-out civil war, with Middle East power brokers from Iran to Turkey possibly being drawn into the fighting.
    Diplomatic hopes have rested on Washington and Moscow agreeing on a transition plan that would end the 4-decade-long Assad regime.
    But Moscow has consistently rejected outside forces to end the conflict or any international plan to force regime change in Damascus. Despite withering criticism from the West, it insists that any arms it supplies to Syria are not being used to quell anti-government dissent.
    With diplomacy at a standstill, the reported shipment of helicopters suggests a dangerous new turn for Syria after more than a year of harsh government crackdowns on mainly peaceful protests and the emergence of an increasingly organized armed insurgency.
    Russia and Syria have a longstanding military relationship and Syria hosts Russia's only naval base on the Mediterranean Sea. But in light of the brutal violence, the U.S. has repeatedly demanded that any further deliveries of weaponry be halted. Russian military support in the form of materiel as advanced as attack helicopters would deal a serious blow to efforts to starve the Syrian army of supplies.
    Some 13,000 people have died, according to opposition groups, but the U.S. and its allies have been hoping that sanctions on Assad's government and its increased isolation would make it increasingly difficult to carry out military campaigns..
    On Monday, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland decried what she called "horrific new tactics" by Syrian forces, including the use of helicopters to fire on civilians from the air. She called the attacks a "very serious escalation" and said Syrian commanders would be held responsible for any crimes against humanity.
    Clinton, as well, warned about a massing of Syrian forces near Aleppo over the last two days, saying such a deployment could be a "red line" for Syria's northern neighbour Turkey "in terms of their strategic and national interests."
    "We are watching this very carefully," she said.
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  4. #264
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    Default Re: Syria

    Stuff is getting deep... Clinton is "warning" Russia now about the military aid to Syria
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    Default Re: Syria

    There going to be Russian "advisors" flying them?

  6. #266
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    Default Re: Syria

    What's there not to understand about the condition of the Russia and China with regard to Syria and Iran?

    Russia, China repeat opposition to intervention in Syria



    But the Administration is pushing forward with their Muslim Brotherhood,
    Al Qaeda Spring, Brzezinski's Anti-Israel Initiative plan. All part of Brzezinski's foreign policy right out of his 1997 book: The Grand Chessboard.

    No coincidence the CIA Document: Key Uncertainties: Technology Will Alter Outcomes contains some of the same goals outlined in Brzezinski's writings generated during the Clinton Administration being carried out today!

    Obama speeds up limited air strike, no-fly zones preparations for Syria



    There are already Russian boots on the ground in Syria...

    Companion Thread:



    Russia prepares for war in Syria, army units




    Source: NL(Roughly Translated)

    Russian Defense Ministry launched an intensive training units for operations abroad, including in Syria. Preparation for combat operations in this country, may lead Pskov 76th air assault division of Airborne, the 15th Brigade combined arms in Samara, as well as special units staffed by the Chechens, who had previously served in the GRU spetsbatalonah “West” and “East” writes, “Nezavisimaya Gazeta”, citing anonymous sources in the military.

    Pskov Airborne Division – one of the most combat-ready connections in the Russian army, the newspaper notes. Its officers, NCOs and men participated in the peacekeeping operation in Kosovo in 1999-2001, in both Chechen wars in 1994-1996 and 1999-2007, and in the war with Georgia in August 2008.

    In 2004, the first division in the Russian army was fully contracted. As for the Chechen soldier, then in 2006-2007 they were initiated by then-Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov has successfully carried out peacekeeping missions in Lebanon, reminiscent of “NG”.They distinguished themselves in combat operations against Georgia in South Ossetia in August 2008. In addition, preparation for possible action in the Syrian special forces have already passed from the separate brigade of marines Black Sea Fleet.

    They were present at the patrol ship “Smetliviy”, which in May, before returning from almost two months of the watch in the Mediterranean Sea, visited the Syrian port of Tartus, where the point of logistics of the Russian Navy. “Smetliviy” returned to Sevastopol on May 31, as reported Ukrainian news agency UNIAN.At the same time Head of Information Management BSF captain Vyacheslav Trukhachev agency said that security is “Sharpness” with the passage of the Straits, and docked in the Syrian port provided a group of anti-terror – a separate brigade of marines BSF.

    A day earlier from the Mediterranean returned to the Russian tanker “Iman” which in Tartus fueling ships of the Russian Navy. In March, nearly burst into an international scandal, when the Syrian opposition in the Arab media rumors spread that the tanker are special forces and attack aircraft the Marine Corps.Europe, even Russia has warned against landing in Syria of its military.

    In rebuttal made ​​by the press service of the Ministry of Defense, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. They explained that “Iman” performs only the task of logistics and staffed by civilian personnel on board is only a guard unit. But Lavrov added that such “fairy tale” The Syrian opposition – is a clear provocation aimed at disrupting peace in the country to plan a special envoy of UN / LAS General Kofi Annan.

    “Kosovo precedent” and “brilliant initiative” Trust Dmitry Medvedev The representatives of the Russian leadership assured that no troops to send to Syria is not planned. But amid the worsening situation around the country began to fear the Russian press that Russia and the West will be on the verge of armed conflict – as was the case in Kosovo. themselves diplomats, who are still afraid, “the Libyan scenario” in Syria is increasingly remembered the “Kosovo precedent” 1999, when NATO began bombing Yugoslavia without UN authorization.

    This provoked an acute crisis between Russia and the West, which nearly resulted in a direct conflict, when Russian paratroopers occupied the Pristina airport. Now, after 13 years in the West once again talked about the possibility of military operation, bypassing the United Nations, where Russia and China have veto power As permanent members of the Security Council, will block any resolution with this scenario. to the participation of Russian troops outside the country, including in Syria, in addition to the UN resolution, you need a political solution to the Russian leadership.

    Last week, Secretary General of the Collective Security Treaty Bordyuzha said that part of the Collective Rapid Reaction Forces in dealing with the Syrian conflict, “it is theoretically possible.” However, he stressed that the military in Syria will fall into this hell, because they are fighting with heavy weapons and any interference with the goals of peacekeeping would mean keeping active hostilities. “In Syria, apparently, you need to carry out an operation to enforce peace, first of all militias – said Bordyuzha. – That is, those who are trying to solve political problems by force of arms, not in the constitution of the state.” Therefore, he concluded that the initiative to send CSTO forces in Syria – “bright only for politicians.”

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
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    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

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  7. #267
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    Default Re: Syria

    Russian Warning Shots

    by Thierry Meyssan

    11 June 2012
    During the celebration of the victory over Nazism on 9 June 2012, President Putin emphasized the need for Russia to be ready for new sacrifice.
    The nature of the Syrian crisis has changed. The process of destabilization that was to open the path for legal military intervention by the Atlantic Alliance has failed. Removing its mask, the United States has publicly announced the possibility of attacking Syria without the approval of the Security Council, as it also did in Kosovo. Washington must be pretending not to have noticed that the Russia of Vladimir Putin is not that of Boris Yeltsin. After being assured of Chinese support, Moscow literally fired two warning shots in the direction of Washington. The continuing violations of international law by NATO and the GCC threaten to unleash a global conflict.

    President Vladimir Putin began his third mandate under the sign of sovereignty in the face of direct threats launched against the Russian Federation by the United States and NATO. Moscow has repeatedly denounced the expansion of NATO, the installation of military bases, the deployment of a missile shield on its borders, and the destruction of Libya and the destabilization of Syria.

    In the days following his inauguration, Mr. Putin reviewed the Russian military industrial sector, his armed forces and his treaty alliance system. [1] He pursued this course of action while choosing to draw in Syria a line in the sand that must not be crossed. For Putin, NATO’s invasion of Libya was equivalent to the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Third Reich and that of Syria, should it occur, would be comparable to the invasion of Poland that started WWII.

    Any interpretation that what is currently happening in the Levant is the result of an internal dynamic of revolution/repression within Syria is not only false but a distortion of the real stakes involved, and simply amounts to more political maneuvering. The Syrian crisis is first and foremost a further stage in the project of "remodeling of the greater Middle East"; a further attempt to destroy the "Axis of Resistance" and the first "war for gas" being played out [2].

    What is actually at stake in Syria is not whether Bashar al-Assad will be able to democratize the institutions he has inherited or whether the Wahhabist monarchies of the Gulf will succeed in destroying the last secular regime in the region and impose their sectarianism, but to determine the lines of separation between the emerging power blocs of NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) and the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization) [3].

    Some of our readers will be startled to read the preceding phrase. Indeed, the Western and Gulf media have been hammering the point day after day that President El-Assad is a sectarian dictator working to the advantage of the Alawite minority, while the armed opposition to his authority is portrayed as the incarnation of democratic pluralism. Just a glance at recent events is enough to belie this version.

    Bashar al-Assad has successively convened municipal elections, a referendum, as well as legislative elections. All observers unanimously agreed that the elections unfolded in a transparent manner. The degree of popular participation was more than 60% even while the West was denouncing the electoral process as "a farce" and while the Western-backed armed opposition was preventing citizens from getting to the polls in the four districts under its control. At the same time, the armed opposition stepped up its attacks not only against security forces but also against civilians and all the symbols of national culture and of Syria’s multi-confessional character.

    They assassinated progressive Sunnis, then randomly killed Alawites and Christians in order to force their families to flee. They burned more than fifteen hundred schools and churches. They proclaimed an ephemeral Independent Islamic Emirate in Baba Amr where they instituted a Revolutionary Tribunal which condemned more than 150 felons, who were then beheaded in public one by one by an executioner. It is certainly not the woeful spectacle of some vagrant politicians, meeting up at the exiled Syrian National Council and erecting a facade of democracy having no relation to the reality of the crimes being committed by the Free "Syrian" Army, that will prevent the truth from coming out much longer. In the circumstances, who can believe that the secular Syrian regime, whose exemplary character was celebrated not so long ago, would have turned into a confessional dictatorship, while the Free "Syrian" Army, supported by the Wahhabist dictatorships of the Gulf and obeying the injunctions of Takfirist preachers would conversely be advanced as a paragon of democratic pluralism?

    The announcement by U.S. leaders of a possible international intervention outside a U.N. mandate in the same fashion as NATO dismembered Yugoslavia elicted both apprehension and anger in Moscow. The Russian Federation, which until now held itself in a defensive position, has moved to take the initiative. This strategic shift flows from the urgency of the situation from Russia’s point of view and favorable shifts on the ground in Syria [4].

    Moscow proposes to create a Contact Group on Syria that would bring together the ensemble of concerned states, meaning Syria’s neighbors as well as both regional and international powers. Its purpose is to put in place a forum for dialogue to substitute for the current bellicose approach imposed by the West under the Orwellian rubric, the "Friends of Syria Conference."

    Russia continues to support the Annan Plan—which is in fact the scarcely modified plan submitted earlier by Sergei Lavrov to the Arab League. Russia deplores that the plan was not implemented, assigning responsibility for that failure to the opposition faction which took up arms. According to A.K. Lukashevich, spokesperson at the Foreign Ministry, the Free "Syrian" Army is an illegal organization according to international law. It is assassinating twenty to thirty Syrian soldiers each day yet is publicly supported by NATO states and the GCC in violation of the Annan Plan [5].

    Positioning himself as a peacemaker confronting NATO warmongering, Vladimir Putin has demanded that the CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organization) ready itself to deploy its "blue chapkas" in Syria, to both separate the belligerents and combat foreign forces. Nicolai Bordyuzha, secretary-general of the CSTO, has confirmed that he is ready to deploy 20,000 men trained for this type of mission and immediately available [6].

    This would be the first time that the CSTO deploys a peace force outside of former Soviet territory. Cut to the quick, Ban Ki-Moon attempted to sabotage the initiative, countering with his own sudden effort to organize a Contact Group. Convening in Washington the Sanctions Working Group of the Friends Of Syria Conference, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton defied the Russian proposal and raised the ante in favor of regime change [7].

    In Turkey, opposition legislators have visited the Syrian refugee camps. They have confirmed the absence of more than one thousand refugees registered by the United Nations in the main camp and noted, by contrast, the presence of an arsenal in the camp. They have also demanded in Parliament that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan reveal the rising amount of humanitarian aid being given to phantom refugees. The deputies maintain that the refugee camp is a cover for a secret military operation, sheltering in reality combatants, principally Libyans who are using it as a rear base. The deputies are asserting that the combatants are those who were introduced in the district of Houla when the massacre was being perpetrated.

    These revelations confirm the accusations of the Russian ambassador to the Security Council, Vitaly Churkin, according to which the Special Representative of Ban Ki-Moon in Libya, Ian Martin, had used U.N. funds destined for refugees to bring al Qaeda combatants into Turkey [8].

    In Saudi Arabia, the fracture between King Abdullah and the Sudairi clan has reappeared. At the invitation of the monarch, the Supreme Council of the Oulema issued a fatwa stipulating that Syria is not a land of jihad. At the same time, however, Prince Faisal, the Minister of Foreign Affairs has been calling to arm the opposition against the "Alawite usurper."

    Thursday, June 7 was a day of many significant events. While Ban Ki-Moon and Navi Pillay, respectively Secretary General and High Commissioner of Human Rights, were pleading their case against Syria before the U.N. General Assembly, Moscow proceeded with two test-launches of its intercontinental ballistic missiles.

    Colonel Vadim Koval, spokesman of the Strategic Missile Troops of the Russian Federation (RSVN) confirmed the test of a Topol—launched from a silo near the Caspian Sea, but has not confirmed that of the Bulava from a submarine in the Mediterranean. But the firing was observed from all over the Near East, Israel and Armenia and there is no other known armament that leaves similar tracings in the sky [9].

    The message is clear : Moscow is ready for world war if NATO and the GCC do not comply with the international obligations as defined in the Annan Plan and persist in aiding terrorism.

    According to our sources, this this shot across the bow was coordinated with the Syrian authorities. Moscow equally had encouraged Damascus to liquidate the Islamic Emirate of Baba Amr once the authority of President al-Assad was confirmed by constitutional referendum, as it also encouraged the president to wipe out mercenary groups present in the country as soon as the new Parliament and new Prime Minister were installed. The order was given to move from a defensive strategy to offensive action to protect the population from terrorism. The national army moved to attack the strongholds of the Free "Syrian" Army. The combat in the coming days is going to be difficult, all the more so in that the mercenaries possess mortars, anti-tank missiles and, as from now, surface to air missiles.

    To lessen the rapidly-increasing tension, France immediately accepted the Russian proposal to participate in an ad hoc Contact Group. Washington hurried Frederic C. Hof to Moscow. Contradicting the statements made the day before by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Mr. Hof also accepted the Russian invitation.

    The time is past to lament the expansion of combat into Lebanon, or to conjecture about the possible regionalization of conflict. Over the past sixteen months of the destabilization of Syria, NATO and the GCC have created a situation without exit that might well degenerate into global war.

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
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    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
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    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

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  8. #268
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    Default Re: Syria

    Yet this Administration is still training Spetznaz with our Special Forces at Fort Carson Colorado studying our tactics with our special service weapons.

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
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    until you’ll
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    like overripe fruit into our hands."



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    Default Re: Syria

    I say call up Putin direct and tell him how it's gonna be. Pick a side, get in the fight or get out of the way. Dare him to cross us, we have had enough and if he wants a freaking war he has it. The economy is shot and we have nothing better to do, might as well use the machine while it still accepts dollars.

    The people should be able to count on the government to protect them not terrorize them, Assad needs to be dealt with.

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    Default Re: Syria

    I'm on the phone now with the fucker... Anything you guys want me to tell him?

    LOL

    hmmm they hung up on me. I think I woke him up.
    Libertatem Prius!


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    Default Re: Syria

    I wonder how far this really goes right now for real. All the bravado or lack there of does this all go anywhere?

    Does Putin back off and then nato does something because they made a deal for it to be free and clear.

    Do we just say to hell with Russia and start and they do nothing.

    Do we do nothing and Syria just becomes less and less Syria everyday and into a no mans land.

    The last and most serious I guess is we start in there and Russia decides they would like to see what Obama is made of and we find ourselves in a "situation".

    Not sure if there are other scenarios here to think out loud about....What do you guys think? Is it possible for this whole thing to just blow over?

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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Syria

    I find it highly unlikely that Putin and Russia are just going to roll over and allow Syria to fall from their grasp.

    Their ship basing there goes back to the Soviet days and as we've seen, they're ramping up to base ships there again. They need their warm water ports.

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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by AGEUSAF View Post
    I wonder how far this really goes right now for real. All the bravado or lack there of does this all go anywhere?

    Does Putin back off and then nato does something because they made a deal for it to be free and clear.

    Do we just say to hell with Russia and start and they do nothing.

    Do we do nothing and Syria just becomes less and less Syria everyday and into a no mans land.

    The last and most serious I guess is we start in there and Russia decides they would like to see what Obama is made of and we find ourselves in a "situation".

    Not sure if there are other scenarios here to think out loud about....What do you guys think? Is it possible for this whole thing to just blow over?
    Putin... the Communist, won't back off. Obama... the Socialist will back off.

    Like Ryan, I think the Soviets... er... I mean RUSSIANS have been sitting there way too long with ports, they are building up their ships in the region. They probably have more vessels now than we do at this point (I don't know the counts on ships myself right now, but Ryan might have or know numbers).

    They have pressed the limits on border incursions with their bombers (testing our missile defense no doubt and our own resolve...). They have threatened the US directly if ISRAEL does anything about Iran.

    They have placed themselves in the forefront of this on-going Middle East mess and have now placed troops physically on the ground in Syria, sent in attack helos to kill multitudes of civilians - likely flown by Russian pilots rather than Syrian pilots (I'd bet money on this one).

    See, the Russians are setting up for World War III and they mean to win it - and given our own circumstances in America, likely will.

    We have cut troops, defense funding, we've cut missile defense, we've cut planes, we've cut ships, we've cut major weapons systems and development on those systems.

    Our policy of vacillating about freedom for the rest of the world and clamping down on our own freedoms places us in a very precarious position in the world. We're no long viewed as leaders, but cowering fools. We send out troops to DIE in the Middle East, rather than to come to full and clear conclusion on the two wars we're fighting.

    I think, unfortunately, AGEUSAF, we are ALREADY in that "situation" you mentioned and blowing over is not one of the scenarios.

    When the Russians sent in choppers to kill the rebels they took sides (clearly something we have NOT done yet) with Assad. That means we MUST side with the rebels (which we should anyway) and they have forced the hand of the Administration to do just that (human rights and all that).

    This means we will come into conflict directly with Russian troops, planes, ships and perhaps eventually nukes.

    It might "blow over" if Assad resigns. I don't see that happening.

    It might "blow over" if he is killed by Rebels. I don't see them getting to him.

    Clinton says that this conflict is being escalated "quite dramatically" due to the new helicopters.

    I tend to agree with her at this point.
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    Default Re: Syria

    Oh... and no journalists are allowed in. UN Peace Keepers (perhaps even Americans among them) were attacked yesterday.
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    Default Re: Syria

    Let's not forget the Israeli raid on the Syrian al Kibar nuclear reactor in 2007. Russian technicians and dollars were most certainly involved in the construction of this facility designed to process fuel for nuclear weapons. Russia is in deep with Syria and Iran. They keep the relationship beneath radar coverage but it is strong.

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    Default Re: Syria

    15:36 Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused the US of giving arms to the Syrian rebels‎, AFP reported Wednesday.

    http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticl...#ixzz1xgo2Bo6a

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    Default Re: Syria

    Seems to me they were DENYING selling arms a few hours ago. Now defending them...

    Russia Defends Arms Sale to Syria, Blasts US





    Tartus, Syria







    Related Articles









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    Andre deNesnera
    June 13, 2012

    Russia on Wednesday defended its sale of arms to Syria and stepped up the rhetoric by accusing the United States of providing weapons to the Syrian rebels.

    Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in Moscow that Russia is supplying "anti-air defense systems" to Damascus in a deal that "in no way violates international law." He said this "contrasts with what the United States is doing ... which is providing arms to the Syrian opposition that are being used against the Syrian government."

    His response comes after U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that Washington is concerned about reports Russia is sending attack helicopters to the Syrian government, a longtime Russian ally.

    Clinton also rejected Russia's claim that its arms shipments to Syria are unrelated to the uprising, calling it "patently untrue." She said the U.S. has urged Russia to stop those arms transfers.

    Given its strong economic and military ties with Syria, experts say Russia has become a key player in the Syrian crisis, now in its 15th month of an uprising by government opponents.

    Russia, and before that the Soviet Union, have for decades provided economic and military assistance to the Syrian government, including MiG fighter planes and sophisticated air defenses.

    Moscow also maintains a Soviet-era naval facility in the Syrian Mediterranean Sea port of Tartus and plans to modernize the base to accommodate larger warships, including aircraft carriers.

    Close relationship

    Experts say the Kremlin's close relationship with Damascus has colored Russia’s reaction to the crisis in Syria. Moscow has resisted Western efforts against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, even as key world powers other than China are demanding he leave office.

    Russia joined China in vetoing a United Nations Security Council resolution calling for the Syrian president to step down. U.S. Secretary of State Clinton called the vote “a travesty.”

    Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus at Princeton University and New York University, says Moscow used its veto power because it felt betrayed when it abstained on a Security Council resolution establishing a no-fly zone over Libya in March of last year.

    “Russia was told that force will not be used, only the enforcement of a no-fly zone over [Moammar] Gadhafi’s Libya,” says Cohen. “When American-led NATO went to war against Gadhafi in Libya, Moscow saw that as a broken promise.”

    Cohen says Moscow vowed not to take Washington’s word again regarding the use of force.

    “So when that issue against the Syrian government arose [at the U.N. Security Council] more recently, the Russians vetoed it and it was not surprising," he said. "They had Libya on their minds.”

    Serious Damage

    Robert Legvold, with Columbia University, says the Russian action at the United Nations has had negative consequences.

    “The Russian position on Syria, as the China position on Syria, has done very serious damage to the relationship with the U.S. and the European Union members," Legvold said, adding that it has “bruised, angered and frustrated” the Obama administration.

    Despite its vetoes at the United Nations, Moscow has endorsed the peace plan of international envoy Kofi Annan. That cease-fire has failed to take hold since it was put forth in April amid attacks by government forces and anti-government rebels.

    Experts say Russia has tried to play a mediating role in the conflict, hosting Syrian government officials in Moscow and, separately, members of the opposition.

    John Parker of the National Defense University says Moscow can exert pressure on Syria.

    “But it doesn’t seem to have been very successful so far,” said Parker, expressing his own views on the issue. “If you would really press the Russians, they think that eventually, Bashar al-Assad will fall. But they want to slow down the process and keep it from becoming as violent, as it has the potential to become violent.”

    Regional Fears

    Vitaly Churkin, Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations, says the “Syrian situation has a very grave potential of impacting not only Syria in a very bad way, but the region.”

    Churkin says the region “is extremely fragile, from Libya to Iran. So the prospect of quite dramatic developments not just in Syria but regionally, is there,” he said.

    The U.S., meanwhile has warned Russia that it will not be party to any Syria peace plan that includes Iran.

    Lavrov has called for a broader international contact group on the crisis to include Iran. Clinton says there is no place for Iran in those talks because of its active support for the Syrian military and pro-government militiamen.

    "The Iranians are bragging publicly about the advice, the material support, the techniques and tactics that they have been providing the Syrian regime," U.S state department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said last week. "They are proud of the role they have played in the regime's use of violence.

    "With the Russians, the issue is a question of how best to end the violence. The Russians have supported the Kofi Annan six-point plan."
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    Default Re: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Donaldson View Post
    They probably have more vessels now than we do at this point (I don't know the counts on ships myself right now, but Ryan might have or know numbers).
    We still have a sizable leg up on number of ships, for now. The Russians are not putting as heavy an emphasis on building naval power as the Chinese are. That's not to say they aren't building but they aren't at the breakneck pace the Chinese are.

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    Default Re: Syria

    But..... China=Navy + Russia=fighters/missiles/accurate nukes > USA

    in other words, if they team up... we're screwed.

    And they are doing JUST that
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    Default Re: Syria

    Companion Posts:



    Obama administration rejects Russia accusation of arming Syrian opposition

    By Judson Berger
    Published June 13, 2012
    | FoxNews.com
    advertisement

    The Obama administration on Wednesday unequivocally rejected Russia's accusation that the U.S. is arming the Syrian opposition, saying American support comes strictly in the form of "nonlethal" aid.

    "We do NOT -- repeat NOT -- provide arms to anyone in Syria," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said in an email to FoxNews.com.

    The rapid-fire diplomatic battle between the two countries is quickly escalating as the U.S. tries to pressure Russia to pull back on its support for Syrian President Bashar Assad amid worsening violence inside Syria.

    Both U.N. and French officials are now describing that conflict as civil war.

    Russia and the U.S. are effectively accusing each other of contributing to the violence.

    Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Tuesday accused Russia of providing attack helicopters to Assad's regime.

    On Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov defended his country's aid, saying Russia is not violating any international law. And, according to an account from Reuters, Lavrov said: "They (the United States) are providing arms and weapons to the Syrian opposition that can be used in fighting against the Damascus government."

    The State Department and White House denied the charge.

    Toner told FoxNews.com that the U.S. has been "crystal clear on this point." He said the U.S. provides $52 million in emergency humanitarian assistance to the Syrian people through various nongovernmental organizations like the Red Cross.

    Toner said the U.S. provides some nonlethal assistance, like communications and medical equipment.

    White House Press Secretary Jay Carney also said that: "We do not and have not supplied weapons to the Syrian opposition."

    Carney did not describe the conflict as civil war, but warned that could be the outcome if circumstances do not change.

    "The situation there is deteriorating, it is deteriorating quickly, it is horrific what Assad is doing to his own people -- and that the window of opportunity to bring about and transition to a democratic future for Syria is closing and will close, and if it does, the chance for a broader sectarian civil war in Syria will be enhanced greatly," Carney said.

    Clinton, in claiming that Russia was arming Assad, warned Tuesday that the violence in the country could escalate "quite dramatically."

    The latest reports out of Syria, according to state TV, say that Assad's forces have cleared out rebels from the Haffa region.

    The developments have led some U.S. lawmakers to call on the Obama administration to get tougher on Russia.

    Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., chairwoman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said that in light of Russia's alleged help in providing helicopters, "the Obama administration's string of concessions to Moscow must stop."

    She cited, among other things, Russia being allowed to host international talks over Iran's nuclear program.

    "This is a replay of Moscow's providing weapons and assistance to Iran, which have enabled Tehran to repress the Iranian people and threaten its neighbors," she said in a statement regarding the Russian aid to Syria.

    Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, also has criticized the Pentagon for using a Russian firm to purchase helicopters for the Afghan Army -- even as Russia allegedly sends choppers to the Assad regime.

    Cornyn wrote a letter Monday to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta expressing "grave concerns" about U.S. dealings with the firm that is "arming the Assad regime."

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