Roswell confirmed? (*likely old hoax*)

[Malsua]

Downloaded this

http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/Guy%..._download/file

Seems to confirm that an informant reported the story about Roswell.

It doesn't specifically confirm it but makes you go hmmm.

I copied it to my webserver in the event the above link breaks. http://thewellrats.com/malbor2/taa/h...guy_part01.pdf

Here's a screen cap of the main page of the 2 page pdf.

[Malsua]

Transcribed:

The following information was furnished to SA

An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called flying saucers hed been recovered in New Mexico. They were described as being circular in shape with raised centers, approximately 50 feet in diameter. Each one was occupied by three bodies of human shape but only 3 feet tall, dressed in metallic cloth of a very fine texture. Each body was bandaged in a manner similar to the blackout suits used by speed flyers and test pilots.

According to Mr. (redacted), informant, the saucers were found in New Mexico due to the fact that the Government has a very high powered radar set-up in that area and it is believed the radar interferes with the controling mechanism of the saucers.

No further evaluation was attempted by SA (redacted) concerning the above.

[samizdat]

This apparently occured before I was born. However, based on my internet investigashun, there is a hyper-hi probabilty of bs involved.

to whit

"50 feet"- ok, so the saucers had 50 feet diameter- now calculate... 3 saucers/3bodies=1.
ok- now look at the chalkboard... 50+1= 51- area 51. As one can clearly see, the document has #51 at the bottom. There you have it. What a feat.

But there's a problem. If each 3 foot body had 2 feet- well that means 666. However, the town of 666 is in Minnesota, and the area 51 is simply an AFB. Everyone knows, that the FBI and the USAF are separate agencies. We're talkin big govt.

[Backstop]

It's a currently-evolving science/method/hoodoovoodo, but they're trying - already with some success - to read The Ramey Document.

Here's the pic, but I'll let you search, read the results, and make your own decision.

[Backstop]

If U.S.A really had a flying saucer...well:

Why is NASA still using Werner Fon Braun's rockets???

World war 2 technology!!!

The instruction manual is written in an alien language??

[Backstop]

Actually Peterle, that was one of the most intelligent questions I've read about this whole affair.

[Luke]

For sure something happened there. I still find it hard to believe the US government could keep something as big as an alien craft and humanoids a secret for so years.

A good disinformation ploy no matter what happened. Way too many different "cover" stories for
something" to not have crashed there.

[American Patriot]

I have comments now.

1) I can NOT comment on the first letter that Malsua posted. Sorry.

2)

This apparently occured before I was born. However, based on my internet investigashun, there is a hyper-hi probabilty of bs involved.

No, the only BS was in your stuff Sami trying to put together things like 666, Area 51 and whatever other nonsense you were talking. LOL

3)

Just curios to see Rick' reactions.

My reaction: Simple. Something happened in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. Precisely what it was I'm not sure. However, I can say, I've flown over that site in a helicopter. The place showed signs of having been dug up, and reburied. Either bulldozers dug up a huge trench or something hit the ground HARD and dug a huge furrow in the ground.

My believe is something hit the ground there, something big and heavy or moving very fast and LATER was dug out by heavy equipment. Of course over time erosion erased much of what was there, but you could see the remains of a "dug up area" many years later. It's probably been close to thirty years now since I was there.

Now.. why was Rick there some 27 years ago? I can't comment on that, it was official government business.... But, do I know any more about this than you guys? Probably not, but I have my suspicions.

4)

If U.S.A really had a flying saucer...well:

Why is NASA still using Werner Fon Braun's rockets???

World war 2 technology!!!

This is a question many of us have asked, but I think that Backstop actually had the right answer. The manual hasn't been translated, because its not a manual, it's in a computer (or some other data storage device) which hasn't been figured out yet.

That would be MY guess.

5)

For sure something happened there. I still find it hard to believe the US government could keep something as big as an alien craft and humanoids a secret for so years.

Having visited there, I assure you, SOMETHING happened there.

[New Guy]

1) I can NOT comment on the first letter that Malsua posted. Sorry.

Rick, why can't you comment? It is a declassified document from the FBI.

[New Guy]

no, it is an FBI document, the domain is fbi.gov

unless you are saying that it is a fake document from the government...

[American Patriot]

I can't comment because specifically the document could be fake.

However, it was done in 1950 and there have been many changes on the way documents and interoffice memos have been created, and sent out. I don't actually SEE the Classification listed. Even since the 1950s documents that are actually classified have the classification stamped on them -sometimes top, or bottom or both, these days both, and with each paragraph having a classification remark like (FOUO) or (UNCLASS) or something similar listed at the beginning of the paragraph.

I can't really comment because there is no context in which the document was produced.

I also can't comment on subjects that might still be classified in other venues.

Make sense?

[New Guy]

yep makes sense, although i don't believe it is fake. i think it's part of a bigger document set that has declassified stamps on them.

maybe if you saw the context of the full set you could comment, the entire set is on the FBI site. there are some really interesting documents, one in particular they concluded that the UFOs were coming from Mars because the sightings increased when Mars was at its closest to Earth. They decided that because it would greatly reduce the travel distance between the planets during those time periods.

Look at page 169 of this document http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%2016%20of%2016/view

Also, if it is posted on the web from the FBI, wouldn't that be considered both legitimate and declassified?

edit : by legitimate I mean not a "faked" document posted by a nutjob or whatever. the document could be legitimately "untrue", but the source is the FBI.

[American Patriot]

yep makes sense, although i don't believe it is fake. i think it's part of a bigger document set that has declassified stamps on them.

maybe if you saw the context of the full set you could comment, the entire set is on the FBI site. there are some really interesting documents, one in particular they concluded that the UFOs were coming from Mars because the sightings increased when Mars was at its closest to Earth. They decided that because it would greatly reduce the travel distance between the planets during those time periods.

Look at page 169 of this document http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO/UFO%20Part%2016%20of%2016/view

Also, if it is posted on the web from the FBI, wouldn't that be considered both legitimate and declassified?

edit : by legitimate I mean not a "faked" document posted by a nutjob or whatever. the document could be legitimately "untrue", but the source is the FBI.

Can't see the links the images go do, blocked here.

I'll check your link though, New Guy.

If posted by the FBI, yes legitimate, not necessarily "declassified". What I'm trying to get at here, without really saying it - so now I'm going to have to say it out loud, there's the distinct possibility it wasn't "Classified".

In other words... without going into details certain things won't be classified necessarily by difference agencies for the same reasons. Most things like nuke secrets will be, or intelligence gather sources, or what that intelligence provides.

The government for the most part doesn't believe in UFOs... and that includes 98% of the people working here now. Doesn't mean there were crashed UFOs, it just means that enough corporate knowledge has passed from this world to "remember" it.

You see... if someone was in an office at the time, either a young agent with the FBI or someone who is still alive who might have been present in 1947-1955 or so who can remember, they might say "Yup, there was a UFO"

However, there's a debriefing when you leave. When you give up your clearance you sign papers saying "I won't talk about that stuff" for something like 75 years or more, depending on the depth of your knowledge.

I've signed such papers in the past and very likely will have to do so in the near future.

So even if they were there, they can't LEGALLY talk about it and can go to jail, etc.

This is why I have such a HARD TIME believing all these so-called military, pilots and other people who were in a position to know and see things "coming forward" with say, the "Disclosure project".

Why? If there were any credibility to these guys, the government would be paying them visits with gag orders if there were truly something to their stories. If they were debriefed, and believe me, they keep track of that crap, then someone would get a court injunction for them to SHUT UP.

[American Patriot]

Ok, I skimmed through - I see that some of it was marked as "Confidential" - the lowest level of classification. The other two levels being Secret and Top Secret respectively.

Just for curiosity sake, I took a look at Majestic-12 stuff. That cracks me up!

Good old Stanton Friedman.... lol (http://www.amazon.com/Top-Secret-Maj.../dp/1569243425) whom I've spoken to on several occasions was absolutely, totally convinced that this material was for-real. He still is.

if you look at the FBI stuff, it's BOGUS!

It has been known to be bogus since 1988 or so.
Not that book isn't worth reading, but when he wrote it - it was sometime after 1988, you'd'a thunk he'd have contacted the FBI with FOIA requests back then.

Now, I'm seeing it was known to be bogus as far back as 1988... LMAO.

Fox News is covering this very shortly for anyone who wants to tune in.

[New Guy]

cool thx rick! stuck at work I might find it on fox.com later. interesting stuff either way

[Malsua]

Steering through the navigable waters of Rick's posts in this thread is a hazardous journey ending in sand bars and choked passages.

[American Patriot]

Steering through the navigable waters of Rick's posts in this thread is a hazardous journey ending in sand bars and choked passages.

LOL

Is that good, or bad? LOL

[Malsua]

LOL

Is that good, or bad? LOL

Honestly, I'm not sure. I read them, read them again and I'm still scratching my head.

[American Patriot]

Well... MY whole gist here is that most of the documents are likely fake.

Posted on the FBI site or NOT doesn't give them credibility.

The MJ-12 documents are there as well. There was at least one book I've read (mentioned above) about it that pushed hard that this stuff was "real" and it turns out to be BOGUS.

Not "Unclassified", not "declassified", not "classified" - but BOGUS. Completely, and totally bogus. Meaning someone with some knowledge of classified documents and how they were marked in the 1940s-1950s took the time and effort to forge them.

What credibility does that give to UFO hunters now?

Not a lot.

[Malsua]

And the truth shall set you free!!

I've met Bruce by the way. Nice guy.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/13/fb...likely-a-hoax/
-------------
In the past few days a story has come out about a new FBI site called "The Vault" that allows history buffs and Web surfers the chance to check out a variety of documents, including some about UFOs.

One particular 1950 document seems to be taking on a viral life of its own. Written by FBI agent Guy Hottel and sent to the bureau's director, J. Edgar Hoover, it relates how "flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico. They were described as being circular in shape with raised centers, approximately 50 feet in diameter.

"Each one was occupied by three bodies of human shape but only 3 feet tall, dressed in metallic cloth of a very fine texture," etc., etc.

FBI UFO document
FBI.gov
This 1950 memo was sent by special agent Guy Hottel to FBI director J. Edgar Hoover. It concerns a story about flying saucers and alien creatures supposedly recovered in New Mexico. While the document itself is real, the story contained in it is reportedly a hoax.
Sound too good to be true? It is. First of all, it is a real FBI document -- that's not in dispute. The problem lies in the content of it, all the flying saucer, alien body stuff.

In most of the stories published this week about the alien encounter, only a handful have made a big deal of the fact that this is not a "newly released" document or that the story is a hoax.

"It was one of the documents I got in the first bunch of documents out of a total of 1,600 that were released by the FBI way back in the late 70s," said retired U.S. Navy optical physicist Bruce Maccabee.

Maccabee actually obtained the document from the FBI via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) in 1977 and even wrote about it in his 2000 book, "UFO-FBI Connection" (Llewellyn Publications).

Maccabee is a renowned investigator of UFO photographs and visual evidence.

"First of all, the document was in this official FOIA release, so I have no doubt that the document is true," Maccabee told AOL News.

As to the contents of the document, "it appears this was the result of a story told by (oil scam artist) Silas Newton, during a lecture at the University of Denver on March 8, 1950 (two weeks before the document was written)," Maccabee explained.

"Newton tried to convince some potential oil company investors that he had secret alien technology that could be used to locate underground oil.

"So this was a con job. Newton was laying the groundwork for it by saying there had been three crashed saucers with creatures."

Maccabee says the story kept getting passed from person to person and believes "an Air Force Office of Special Investigations man picked up on it and told the FBI guy, who then sent a memo to Hoover."

This wasn't unusual, Maccabee continued, because around the same time, in 1947, "the Air Force initially asked the FBI to investigate witnesses to find out if there were any possible Communist subversive activities going on, generating spurious stories to make the American public fearful that our own military couldn't handle Soviet aircraft in our skies."

Even though nothing came of this investigation, Maccabee says it at least established a connection between the FBI and the Air Force, especially about UFOs.

"Back in the late 40s and 50s, no one expected the Freedom of Information Act 20 years later," Maccabee added. "Basically, the FBI was told by Hoover, 'If you come up with UFO information, do not investigate, send it to the Air Force.' But, nevertheless, they would sometimes send memos back to headquarters."

And that's apparently how this whole 1950 crashed flying saucer with dead aliens memo evolved, with a little bit of con artistry kicked in.

If there's a moral to the story it's this: You can't trust every document you read, even if it's a genuine document. To get at the truth, you need to really dig into it. How did it germinate? Are the people involved reliable, and is there a high or low credibility factor associated with it?

The truth is always out there, but it often requires investigators to use the correct filters to weed out the good from the bad.