Was A Stealth Helicopter Used In The Op To Get Bin Laden?

[Ryan Ruck]

[Ryan Ruck]

http://aviationintel.com/

[Ryan Ruck]

I can't... Sorry. I'll say it "exists" somewhere. Or did.

Let me ask this... Would I have seen it somewhere?

[American Patriot]

Let me ask this... Would I have seen it somewhere?

Hmmmmm... Not bloody likely? Is that a good answer? LOL

[Ryan Ruck]

Yep!

[Ryan Ruck]

Hmmm... X2 UAV Helicopter Concept by Sikorsky. 5 blade rear rotor...



Guess who makes the -60... Possibly putting design elements from other projects into a -60 to make it stealthier.

[Ryan Ruck]

Found an interesting post on ARF:

We have had a two piece stabilator for decades. It was originally developed for the US Navy and has been put on all new build UH-60M's. Spec-ops birds have had the two piece stab for decades as it is much faster to load/unload then the old way of having to dismount the one piece stab.

Driveshafts are not thin and they are not titanium - they are aluminum with a Ti max of 0.15% within the alloy (for those interested the shaft is made of Al 2024-T3). I can easily see the hawk intermediate gear box and the flex pack couplings.

I worked on the composite tail boom for UH-60M a few years ago- it too was smooth and required no rivets as it was 100% carbon fiber and other materials. I had to go to Ft Eustis for a vaildation of repair criteria. I know we made a number of composite booms for US Army test purposes along with a partial composite stabilator. This looks very much like matured composite tech combined with an active rotor system and elements from the Comanche program.

Looking at specifically the UHH-60M, that might well be the case, lending credence to the stealth modded -60 theory.

[Ryan Ruck]

More pics!






And another of the main wreckage:

[Ryan Ruck]

Backstop made a post in the Staff Forum about a rather interesting set of pictures that took off.

With his and Rick's permission I've moved the posts related to the discussion into the public forums to see what everyone else thinks of this oddity. This is a topic that is definitely making the rounds on the internet!

[Backstop]

Brought some pics to add, and see Ryan already added them at 1643 - so I'll add this:

[Ryan Ruck]

I always crack up when I hear that line in Predator now!

[catfish]

Wasn't a stealth bomber shot down during the Kosovo op and the wreckage ended up in China? This could be a serious issue if they get their hands on this tech too.

After reading everything you guys said and posted, I'm convinced we have some sort of stealth helicopter. At this point I guess I would be kind of suprised if we didn't.

[Ryan Ruck]

Yep, F-117 shot down over Kosovo. Rumored to be why we bombed the Chinese embassy "accidentally".

[Ryan Ruck]

From Army Times...

Mission Helo Was Secret Stealth Black Hawk

May 4, 2011

The helicopters that flew the Navy SEALs on the mission to kill Osama bin Laden were a radar-evading variant of the special operations MH-60 Black Hawk, according to a retired special operations aviator.

The helicopter’s low-observable technology is similar to that of the F-117 Stealth Fighter the retired special operations aviator said. “It really didn’t look like a traditional Black Hawk,” he said. It had “hard edges, sort of like an … F-117, you know how they have those distinctive edges and angles — that’s what they had on this one.”

In addition, “in order to keep the radar cross-section down, you have to do something to treat the windshield,” he said. If a special coating was applied to the windshield it is “very plausible” that would make the helicopter more difficult to fly for pilots wearing night-vision goggles, he said. The helicopters carrying the SEALs arrived over the bin Laden compound at about 1 a.m. Monday local time. One crash-landed in the courtyard and was so badly damaged it was unable to take off again.

That crash landing might have been caused by a phenomenon known as “settling with power,” which occurs when a helicopter descends too quickly because its rotors cannot get the lift required from the turbulent air of their own downwash. “It’s hard to settle with power in a Black Hawk, but then again, if they were using one of these [low-observable helicopters], working at max gross weight, it’s certainly plausible that they could have because they would have been flying so heavy,” the retired special operations aviator said, noting that low-observable modifications added “several hundred pounds” to the weight of the MH-60, which already weighs about 500 to 1000 pounds more than a regular UH-60 Black Hawk.

The special operations troops on the bin Laden mission destroyed the stricken aircraft — most likely using thermite grenades — but the resultant fire left the helicopter’s tail boom, tail rotor assembly and horizontal stabilizers intact in the compound’s courtyard.

Photographs of the wreckage taken the next day raced around the Internet, creating a firestorm of speculation among military aviation enthusiasts because the tail of the helicopter did not resemble any officially acknowledged U.S. military airframe.

This was to be expected, the retired special operations aviator said. “Certain parts of the fuselage, the nose and the tail had these various almost like snap-on parts to them that gave it the very unique appearance,” he said. He and another source referred to the disc-shaped device that is seen covering the tail rotor in the photographs as a “hubcap.”

If the radar-evading technology worked, it “would be a true statement” to say that the use of the low-observable Black Hawks was evidence that the United States gave Pakistani authorities no advance warning of the mission, the retired special operations aviator added.

The low-observable program started with AH-6 Little Bird special operations attack helicopters in the 1980s, said the aviator. During the 1990s U.S. Special Operations Command worked with the Lockheed-Martin Skunk Works division, which also designed the F-117, to refine the radar-evading technology and apply it to the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment’s MH-60s, he said. USSOCOM awarded a contract to Boeing to modify several MH-60s to the low-observable design “in the ’99 to 2000 timeframe,” he said.

Initial plans called for the low-observable Black Hawks to be formed into a new unit commanded by a lieutenant colonel and located at a military facility in Nevada, the retired special operations aviator said. “The intent was always to move it out west where it could be kept in a covered capability,” he said.

USSOCOM planned to assign about 35 to 50 personnel to the unit, the retired special operations aviator said. “There were going to be four [low-observable] aircraft, they were going to have a couple of ‘slick’ unmodified Black Hawks, and that was going to be their job was to fly the low-observables.”

SOCOM canceled those plans “within the last two years,” but not before at least some of the low-observable helicopters had been delivered to the Nevada facility, the retired aviator said. “I don’t know if it was for money or if it was because the technology was not achieving the reduction in the radar cross-section that they were hoping for,” he said. In the meantime, MH-60 Black Hawk crews from the 160th’s 1st Battalion, headquartered at Fort Campbell, Ky., would rotate to Nevada to train on the stealthy aircraft, he said.

The low-observable MH-60s were armed with the same sort of door mini-guns as standard MH-60s, he said. “There was not a DAP conversion,” he added, referring to the MH-60 variant known as the Direct Action Penetrator, which is equipped with stub wings upon which can be fitted a variety of armaments.

The early versions of the low-observable Black Hawks were not fitted with air-to-air refueling probes, the retired special operations aviator said. “The probe would disrupt the ability to reduce the radar cross-section,” he added. “There was no way to put some kind of a hub or cowling over the probe that would make it stealthy.” However, he said he did not know whether the models that flew the bin Laden mission had been equipped with such probes.

USSOCOM spokesman Army Col. Tim Nye said his command had no comment for this story.

Awesome that we have these! Too bad that it was a limited run and not a new model deployed service wide. And definitely not good that the remaining parts are likely on their way to Russia and/or China even though, per FNC, we've reportedly asked for the debris back to prevent it from falling into their hands.

[Ryan Ruck]

Video from ABC...

[zenbudda]

Backstop made a post in the Staff Forum about a rather interesting set of pictures that took off.

With his and Rick's permission I've moved the posts related to the discussion into the public forums to see what everyone else thinks of this oddity. This is a topic that is definitely making the rounds on the internet!

Can you link this post now that it is public?

[Backstop]

Can you link this post now that it is public?

If I understand you correctly:

The original (starting) post in this thread is my post from the Staff Forum - verbatim.

[Ryan Ruck]

Yep zen. The post that kicked off the discussion and all subsequent posts are this actual thread. They were moved to here into their own thread.

[zenbudda]

My bad. Hard to tell. :-)

[vector7]

Did U.S. forces use secret stealth helicopters in bin Laden raid?

By Oliver Tree
Last updated at 3:49 PM on 5th May 2011

• Comments (29)

They managed to penetrate Pakistani airspace, hover for 40 minutes, and flee undetected towards Afghanistan until the very last minute.

And now, pictures of the wrecked helicopter that crashed in Osama bin Laden's compound may shed new light on how Navy SEAL raiders snuck into Abbottabad without alerting Pakistani forces - by using secret 'stealth' helicopters.

Pictures of the downed chopper's heavily damaged tail section bear a striking resemblance to the smooth angular design of other stealth aircraft and have left aviation experts struggling to identify the unknown machine.

Scroll down for video


Stealth: The strange design of the rotor tail has led many to speculate that U.S. Navy SEALs used a secret stealth helicopter in Sunday's raids


Unknown: Distinctive features, such as the smooth and angular outer shell, covered rotor blades and pointed rear end have bamboozled aviation experts

The pictures have left aviation experts scratching their heads, with several concluding it must be a new, as yet unknown helicopter design.

Bill Sweetman, editor of Aviation Week said the pictures show a 'stealth-configuration' on the wrecked rotor housing.


More...

• The young bride who tried to save Bin Laden: First picture of wife shot in U.S. raid on terror warlord's Pakistan hideaway
• Waterboarding vindicated? Security chiefs claim 'enhanced interrogation' of Al Qaeda leaders helped them find and kill Bin Laden
• Bin Laden, the terror godfather next door: Pakistan alerted U.S. to 'suspicious' terror compound in 2009
• Give me some of $25m reward says 'Rocky Mountain Rambo' who went on one-man hunt for bin Laden
• Will 'treasure trove' of intelligence from Bin Laden mansion lead U.S. hit squad to Al Qaeda's No2?

He said: 'Well, now we know why all of us had trouble ID'ing the helicopter that crashed, or was brought down, in the Osama raid.

'It was a secretly developed stealth helicopter, probably a highly modified version of an H-60 Blackhawk.'

Citing pictures shown on MailOnline, he added: 'Photos show that the helicopter's tail features stealth-configured shapes on the boom and tip fairings, swept stabilizers and a 'dishpan' cover over a non-standard five-or-six-blade tail rotor.

'The willingness to compromise this technology shows the importance of the mission in the eyes of US commanders - and what we're seeing here also explains why Pakistani defences didn't see the first wave (at least) coming in.

'No wonder the team tried to destroy it.'


Standard: The UH-60 Black Hawk is a workhorse with U.S. forces, with over 1000 currently serving across the Army, Navy and Airforce





Comparison: The rotor of the crashed 'stealth' helicopter (left) from Sunday's raid and a close up of a standard UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter

It was previously thought that the Navy SEAL teams involved in last Sunday's attack used modified MH-60 Black Hawk or Sea Hawk variant helicopters in the raid - although the White House would not confirm or deny what type of helicopter was used.

Initially the plan was for the SEAL teams to 'fast rope' from the hovering 'Black Hawks', but according to the White House and defence officials, one of the helicopters developed a mechanical fault and had make a 'hard landing'.


Equipped: SEALs and other special forces have access to the latest military hardware, potentially explaining why they would have used an experimental or secret helicopter type


ID: The rear end bears no resemblance to that of the Black hawk typically used by special forces

As the U.S. special forces fled bin Laden's compound, they destroyed the crippled helicopter, leaving what they thought were only charred remains.
Discussing the intriguing pictures, a writer for website Defense Tech dismissed speculation the new craft was a modified version of the MH-60.
He said: 'All I’ll say is that it sure doesn’t look like it came off even a modified MH-60 Black Hawk. It looks like a stealthy new aircraft.'


Previous: Experts have speculated the 'clasified' helicopter could be a descendant of the now abandoned RAH-66 Comanche stealth helicopter project - seen here in prototype testing

Experts are now speculating the mysterious helicopter may be a descendant of the abandoned RAH-66 Comanche stealth helicopter project.
The Comanche, in development since 1984, reached the working prototype phase before it was cancelled in 2004.

It has been suggested that the military could have kept a few examples of the Comanche for use on high priority missions such as last Sunday's raid on the bin Laden compound.

The UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter, manufactured by Sikorsky, first entered service with the U.S. army in 1979.

Since then, the $44 million helicopter has become a workhorse across all branches of the American military, with U.S. forces currently operating 1,349.

There are numerous variations on the basic design, with special forces typically using the highly modified MH-60 variant.

The Black Hawk, which first began flying in 1978, has a crew of three or four and can carry 11 soldiers equipped for combat.


Eyes: 'The Beast of Kandahar' i.e. the secretive RQ-170 surveillance drone, was said to have filmed the daring raid and transmitted it back to the President in real time

The new 'stealth' helicopter may not have been the only secret weapon used last Sunday.

Navy SEAL teams have access to the latest weaponry and have the pick of any hardware deemed necessary to carry out the job.

It is alleged that during the killing of bin Laden in Abbottabad, the SEALS involved were supported by the Air Force's secretive RQ-170 pilot less drone- dubbed 'The Beast of Kandahar'.

The Air Force denied the futuristic looking weapons existence until 2009 and has never released an official photo of the reconnaissance aircraft.