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Thread: Ron Paul

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    Default Ron Paul

    WTF...Ron Paul doesn't deserve a thread?



    I can't find anything too objectionable with this.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-ron-paul.html

    Default Now, or Suffer a More Expensive Crisis Later: Ron Paul

    By Ron Paul Jul 22, 2011 12:00 PM CT

    Debate over the debt ceiling has reached a fever pitch in recent weeks, with each side trying to outdo the other in a game of political chicken. If you believe some of the things that are being written, the world will come to an end if the U.S. defaults on even the tiniest portion of its debt.

    In strict terms, the default being discussed will occur if the U.S. fails to meet its debt obligations, through failure to pay either interest or principal due a bondholder. Proponents of raising the debt ceiling claim that a default on Aug. 2 is unprecedented and will result in calamity (never mind that this is simply an arbitrary date, easily changed, marking a congressional recess). My expectations of such a scenario are more sanguine.

    The U.S. government defaulted at least three times on its obligations during the 20th century.

    -- In 1934, the government banned ownership of gold and eliminated the right to exchange gold certificates for gold coins. It then immediately revalued gold from $20.67 per troy ounce to $35, thus devaluing the dollar holdings of all Americans by 40 percent.

    -- From 1934 to 1968, the federal government continued to issue and redeem silver certificates, notes that circulated as legal tender that could be redeemed for silver coins or silver bars. In 1968, Congress unilaterally reneged on this obligation, too.

    -- From 1934 to 1971, foreign governments were permitted by the U.S. government to exchange their dollars for gold through the gold window. In 1971, President Richard Nixon severed this final link between the dollar and gold by closing the gold window, thus in effect defaulting once again on a debt obligation of the U.S. government.

    Unlimited Spending

    No longer constrained by any sort of commodity backing, the federal government was now free to engage in almost unlimited fiscal profligacy, the only check on its spending being the market’s appetite for Treasury debt. Despite the defaults in 1934, 1968 and 1971, world markets have been only too willing to purchase Treasury debt and thereby fund the government’s deficit spending. If these major defaults didn’t result in decreased investor appetite for U.S. obligations, I see no reason why defaulting on a small amount of debt this August would cause any major changes.

    The national debt now stands at just over $14 trillion, while net total liabilities are estimated at over $200 trillion. The government is insolvent, as there is no way that this massive sum of liabilities can ever be paid off. Successive Congresses and administrations have shown absolutely no restraint when it comes to the budget process, and the idea that either of the two parties is serious about getting our fiscal house in order is laughable.

    Boom and Bust

    The Austrian School’s theory of the business cycle describes how loose central bank monetary policy causes booms and busts: It drives down interest rates below the market rate, lowering the cost of borrowing; encourages malinvestment; and causes economic miscalculation as resources are diverted from the highest value use as reflected in true consumer preferences. Loose monetary policy caused the dot-com bubble and the housing bubble, and now is causing the government debt bubble.

    For far too long, the Federal Reserve’s monetary policy and quantitative easing have kept interest rates artificially low, enabling the government to drastically increase its spending by funding its profligacy through new debt whose service costs were lower than they otherwise would have been.

    Neither Republicans nor Democrats sought to end this gravy train, with one party prioritizing war spending and the other prioritizing welfare spending, and with both supporting both types of spending. But now, with the end of the second round of quantitative easing, the federal funds rate at the zero bound, and the debt limit maxed out, Congress finds itself in a real quandary.

    Hard Decisions

    It isn’t too late to return to fiscal sanity. We could start by canceling out the debt held by the Federal Reserve, which would clear $1.6 trillion under the debt ceiling. Or we could cut trillions of dollars in spending by bringing our troops home from overseas, making gradual reforms to Social Security and Medicare, and bringing the federal government back within the limits envisioned by the Constitution. Yet no one is willing to step up to the plate and make the hard decisions that are necessary. Everyone wants to kick the can down the road and believe that deficit spending can continue unabated.

    Unless major changes are made today, the U.S. will default on its debt sooner or later, and it is certainly preferable that it be sooner rather than later.

    If the government defaults on its debt now, the consequences undoubtedly will be painful in the short term. The loss of its AAA rating will raise the cost of issuing new debt, but this is not altogether a bad thing. Higher borrowing costs will ensure that the government cannot continue the same old spending policies. Budgets will have to be brought into balance (as the cost of servicing debt will be so expensive as to preclude future debt financing of government operations), so hopefully, in the long term, the government will return to sound financial footing.

    Raising the Ceiling

    The alternative to defaulting now is to keep increasing the debt ceiling, keep spending like a drunken sailor, and hope that the default comes after we die. A future default won’t take the form of a missed payment, but rather will come through hyperinflation. The already incestuous relationship between the Federal Reserve and the Treasury will grow even closer as the Fed begins to purchase debt directly from the Treasury and monetizes debt on a scale that makes QE2 look like a drop in the bucket. Imagine the societal breakdown of Weimar Germany, but in a country five times as large. That is what we face if we do not come to terms with our debt problem immediately.

    Default will be painful, but it is all but inevitable for a country as heavily indebted as the U.S. Just as pumping money into the system to combat a recession only ensures an unsustainable economic boom and a future recession worse than the first, so too does continuously raising the debt ceiling only forestall the day of reckoning and ensure that, when it comes, it will be cataclysmic.

    We have a choice: default now and take our medicine, or put it off as long as possible, when the effects will be much worse.
    Last edited by Backstop; July 22nd, 2011 at 23:00.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Backstop View Post
    WTF...Ron Paul doesn't deserve a thread?
    No.


    LOL
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    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    I disagree politely, Rick.

    This cycle I am still not wooed by any candidate, so having a wide spread is fair it seems. Add that, Paul is actually making a showing and might be a contender. So, agree with him or not, he may play out.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Ron Paul is an idiot
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    When Ron Paul is right, he's very right. When he's wrong, he's really wrong.

    I'd rather see him as SecTreas than Prez.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    I don't want to ever see him as President.
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Donaldson View Post
    I don't want to ever see him as President.
    Why?

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    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    I am sure Rick is recalling the last Pres election when Alex Jones endorsed Paul.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Didn't know about that...thanks.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Alex Jones.

    Paul is a 9-11 Conspiracy Nutcase. He believes the US Government was complicit in the destruction....

    While I certainly think he is right and dead on about a lot of things - he's wrong on those for sure.

    Sorry. He's a loon.
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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Well, to be completely fair to Paul, he's never outright said that (that I know of). However, he has insinuated it strongly and I remember one of his higher up campaign officials (someone who he would have personally brought on) a while back was outed as a Truther.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Ruck View Post
    Well, to be completely fair to Paul, he's never outright said that (that I know of). However, he has insinuated it strongly and I remember one of his higher up campaign officials (someone who he would have personally brought on) a while back was outed as a Truther.
    Ok.. "to be fair" then...

    From Wikipedia

    Paul does not believe the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were a government conspiracy and has explicitly denied being a 9/11 "truther", arguing that the issue is not a conspiracy but a failure of bureaucracy.[66][67] He believes the 9/11 Commission Report's main goal was "to protect the government and to protect their ineptness – not ... to do this so they can use this as an excuse to spread the war ... Some who did want to spread the war would use it as an opportunity. But, it wasn't something that was deliberately done."[66][69] He does not think the government would have staged such an attack.[70] When asked whether "9/11 was orchestrated by the government", Paul emphasized, "Absolutely not."[71] Paul has stated that he is concerned that someone might create a "contrived Gulf of Tonkin - type incident" to justify the invasion of Iran or suspend the democratic process, adding, "Let’s hope I’m wrong about this one."[34]

    Prostitution and Sex Work
    - Ron Paul reaffirmed in a South Carolina Republican Presidential Candidate debate in May 2011 his support for prostitution being made legal, arguing that the Constitution grants American citizens the right to do "controversial things" as long as they do not hurt or defame other people. He further believes that it is none of the government's business what consenting adults do in private. His primary goal in this area is to abolish federal anti-prostitution legislation, leaving it up to the states to decide if they would want to legalize prostitution or not.[citation needed]


    Marijuana

    Paul favors the right to use marijuana as a medical option. He was cosponsor of H.R. 2592, the States' Rights to Medical Marijuana Act.[246] He is currently a supporter of the Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults Act of 2008.[247]


    Electoral college

    In 2004, he spoke out against efforts to abolish the electoral college, stating that "Democracy, we are told, is always good. But the founders created a constitutionally limited republic precisely to protect fundamental liberties from the whims of the masses, to guard against the excesses of democracy. The electoral college likewise was created in the Constitution to guard against majority tyranny in federal elections. The President was to be elected by the states rather than the citizenry as a whole, with votes apportioned to states according to their representation in Congress”[266]


    http://www.rightnation.us/forums/ind...howentry=1750&

    Ron Paul: 9/11 Conspiracy Nut?

    23 January 2007

    Posted by Mr. Naron
    This is potentially disturbing:

    Quote
    CALLER: I want a complete, impartial, and totally independent investigation of the events of September 11, 2001 . I'm tired of this bogus garbage about terrorism. Ask Michael Meacher about how he feels about this bogus war on terrorism. Can you comment on that please?

    HON. DR. RON PAUL: Well, that would be nice to have. Unfortunately, we don't have that in place. It will be a little bit better now with the Democrats now in charge of oversight. But you know, for top level policy there's not a whole lot of difference between the two policies so a real investigation isn't going to happen. But I think we have to keep pushing for it. And like you and others, we see the investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation of what went on.

    JACK BLOOD, GUEST HOST: I think it's fair to say that of all the candidates out there, the one most interested in reopening the investigation and clearing the questions is Dr. Paul; and you should be commended for that.



    If government was involved, things were covered up. That does not mean that 9/11 was a conspiracy the sense truthers believe. Rep. Paul needs to be very careful with this kind of thing because siding with the conspiracy nuts is probably the best way to lose credibility with most voters.

    Whether it's true or not the the government covered things up, which it probably is, he won't get a chance to investigate it if he is seen as a truther.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    ron paul and the 'kook squad' [ron paul's 9/11 conspiracy theory albatross]
    the washington times ^ | may 26, 2007 | jonathon moseley
    posted on saturday, may 26, 2007 8:52:33 am by moseley
    [snip] if mr. Paul intends to stay in the race or even maintain his credibility, he needs to dissociate himself quickly from irresponsible accusations that the government is guilty of 3,000 counts of mass murder. Not only are such ideas offensive, but they are being used around the world to bash america and organize terrorist cells against us. American lives are endangered by such irresponsible propaganda.
    For those who have not gone slumming on the internet, the september 11 conspiracy theorists say no airplanes hit the pentagon or the world trade center, even though hundreds of thousands of eyes watched the planes hit live, in person. They refuse to accept osama bin laden's proud claims of responsibility for september 11, instead "outing" bin laden as a paid cia agent. They claim that 30 tons of burning jet fuel could not melt steel, even though steel's strength is reduced at 1,000 degrees celsius and melting is irrelevant. More than a dozen steel buildings have failed from fire alone. Last month, a burning fuel truck caused the steel in a san francisco highway overpass to melt and fail. These people are not interested in answers or truth, but only in bashing america with falsehoods.
    It's the same old story. When liberals thought "maverick" john mccain was useful for undermining president bush and republicans, he was the darling of the news media and liberals pretending to be republican voters. Now that mr. Mccain is supporting mr. Bush's position on the dominant issue of the day, the mainstream news media has shunned mr. Mccain like an old mistress once the affair is over.

    (excerpt) read more at washingtontimes.com ...
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    My greatest issue was that he DID say some things on the Alex JOnes show that made it to the media. He has subsequently denied them, but they were heard on the air by plenty of people (including myself, I don't have the links right now).

    What he FAILED to do was to disassociate himself from the other KOOKS out there (including Alex Jones).

    Anyone that puts themselves in with Jones can pound sand, they are KOOKS. And that INCLUDES ANYONE that visits or posts on this site that wants to side with Alex Jones.
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    Repeatedly Redundant...Again
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Interesting.

    I've just started my research on Paul.

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    Super Moderator Malsua's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Backstop View Post
    Interesting.

    I've just started my research on Paul.
    Paul is right on some things...fiscal policy.

    He's bat shit crazy on other things.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Wow, Wiki used a source in politics? Sorry, just saying. We had a thread a while back where we found inconsistent wiki political agenda data due to those who run that show.

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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Fiord View Post
    Wow, Wiki used a source in politics? Sorry, just saying. We had a thread a while back where we found inconsistent wiki political agenda data due to those who run that show.
    lol
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    There was a reason I used that.
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    Default Re: Ron Paul

    Curb, meet Paul.

    He's right though, in that some people hate us when we occupy their country.

    Planet has been that way since day 1.

    http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.co...d-911-attacks/

    Ron Paul says U.S. intervention motivated 9/11 attacks
    Josh Hafner 5:15 PM, Aug 27, 2011

    “I don’t see Islam as our enemy,” Paul said. “I see that motivation is occupation and those who hate us and would like to kill us, they are motivated by our invasion of their land, the support of their dictators that they hate.”

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