the party's over?

[Luke]

Sadly, I can't help but think history may be close to repeating itself. I suppose I should not watch as much TV or read the paper or the internet. Maybe I should become more of a hermit.





When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

[Malsua]

Just take another bong hit and the party will go on.

[Luke]

Good advice. lol I have considered loosening my tinfoil hat, but it does seem to reflect the heat of the sun somewhat.

As countries go we here in the USA could be considered the new kids on the block when compared to the rest of the world. In my opinion we seem to be going the wrong direction in terms of demonstrating leadership.

Could it be we have created too many laws?

[Phil Fiord]

Luke,

It is my understanding that Paraguay and I think Uraguay are governed solely by their constitution. In a process similar to ours to add parts, they do that with the constitution as needed. Pretty simple.

When congress started being called lawmakers, it was a mistake to do so. It is as if it encouraged every manner of law to be formed under various statues. What they should have been encouraged to do is work less and stay in their local community more. Listen to their local people and represent them as congress people. It seems an honest observation to say career congress people are out of touch with those they are supposed to represent.

[Luke]

Possible the problem lies with "career congress people" I may be way off base but I have doubts that the founding fathers intended for "career congress people" to exist.

[Backstop]

My version: The party is winding down because we're almost out of beer.

If Barry O. and Co. get re-elected, there will be no more beer.

Ever.

The party is over, and this nation as we know it will be forever changed.

If a GOPer gets the White House, we'll get 2% beer for a few years.

The GOPer may change our direction a bit, but we're so far in debt, I just can't see much good in our future.

Our elected officials have good and well fucked us.

[American Patriot]

Hell, they want to ban beer.... Well, the RUSSIANS are, which means we will follow suit if things continue as they are.

Luke, rest assured you are not the only one who sees the writing on the wall. America might be young, but we're mighty. We might be a country suffering from major problems, but we are NOT some of those "Old European Countries" that have fought hundreds of wars against their neighbors. We can count the number of wars we've been in... well, on maybe three hands.

Germany, France, Italy, Britain (ESPECIALLY Britain), Denmark, and many other Northern European countries have fought war after war, changed monarchs, congresses and parliaments for hundreds of years all without ever having the freedoms we have.

America will NOT go the way of Europe.

[Backstop]

America will NOT go the way of Europe.

Your optimism is encouraging.

I don't share it, but it's encouraging nonetheless.

[Luke]

I think it was Ben Franklin who said something to the effect that beer was proof god loves us? Poorly paraphrased I know, but once again the wisdom of the Founding Fathers prevails.

A handful of wars in a little over 200 years is probably a good record. My point is that the United States of America today looks nothing like the designers had in mind. Maybe that is proof that the Constitution is a living document. Still in my mind it has been subverted by greed. I can imagine Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and Lincoln being more than a little disgusted by the current congress/administration. Remember that 3rd part of the government, the Judicial guys?

[wallis]

A favorite misquote. Here's the correct version:

For the record, here, in a letter addressed to André Morellet in 1779, is what Benjamin Franklin actually did say:

Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards, there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine, a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy.

(Source: Isaacson, Walter. Benjamin Franklin: An American Life. New York: Simon and Schuster, 2003. p.374.)

[vector7]

[American Patriot]

Your optimism is encouraging.

I don't share it, but it's encouraging nonetheless.

That's not optimism, Backstop. That's an ORDER. I am, after all one of the guys running this country. So if enough of us "guys running the country" stand the fuck up and put our foot down, we won't go the way of Europe.

[American Patriot]

Sometimes we Americans, in our 'exceptionalism', tend to think that Europe has collectively 'failed' or 'commited suicide' and that the United States is a new thing in the world. That it is the result of our Founding Fathers (who were of European descent) looking at Europe and wanting to do 'better' than Europe's example for the new nation.

With your remarks then, Michael and the way you put this, we can assume you personally do not believe that America is any way exceptional to some (if not all) European countries?

It remains to be seen if this experiment called 'America' will fail or not, or even if it hasn't already failed and we refuse to see it. And it remains to be seen if Europe really has failed or committed collective suicide.

Failure is not an option. America - this so-called "Experiment" as you put is isn't an experiment first off, and second off if America fails it will NOT be due to the people, but rather to the politicians the people have placed in office. They will be held responsible for any failures too, and they SHOULD be held responsible for the failures NOW.

As a country the United States has always, even in colonial times, believed we were in some way 'doing better' than our European cousins.

And I suppose, you don't think we are doing better than Europeans who are over full of Socialists? Oh... wait, never mind now.

[Backstop]

That's not optimism, Backstop. That's an ORDER. I am, after all one of the guys running this country. So if enough of us "guys running the country" stand the fuck up and put our foot down, we won't go the way of Europe.

Commenting here on your above post, and your next one.

I understand what you're saying, and I'll never stop standing the fuck up.

But...

As I've been saying for a while: I'm not yet convinced the majority of voters in this nation think we're headed in the wrong direction.

Point: Voters will speak in 2012. If Barry O. and Co. get re-elected, his Socialist tendencies will become stronger, and in my opinion, it will quite literally be Game Over.

Even picking out one thing the Dems shoved down our throats: Obamacare.

That right there will destroy the greatest health care system in the world.

And that's not even mentioning Cap and Trade, increased spending in entitlement programs, bailouts and its associated fraud, etc.

Remember the GOP's Promise to America, where they said they'd get rid of Obamacare?

So how is that working? Granted the budget is in the front seat, but I haven't heard a word about it.

Many of us will continue to shout from the rooftops, but this nation will go in the direction the voters point it.

[Luke]

I have also heard of the United States being called the grand experiment. I am not sure why as there have been many republic type governments.

My reason for posting the opening of the Declaration of Independence is to show that it is in our collective past to revolt against forms of government that are ineffective and unfair.

What saddens me is that we seem to be approaching that point. In this world of sound bites and instant communication our current government seems to be more interested in re-election than "governing" our country.

[American Patriot]

Commenting here on your above post, and your next one.

I understand what you're saying, and I'll never stop standing the fuck up.

But...

As I've been saying for a while: I'm not yet convinced the majority of voters in this nation think we're headed in the wrong direction.

Point: Voters will speak in 2012. If Barry O. and Co. get re-elected, his Socialist tendencies will become stronger, and in my opinion, it will quite literally be Game Over.

Agreed. But then "Game On".... because a lot of us will revolt. The hard way. The other 60 % can kiss my ass.

Because, in the first Revolution it was like that then.

Even picking out one thing the Dems shoved down our throats: Obamacare.

That right there will destroy the greatest health care system in the world.

Yes.

And that's not even mentioning Cap and Trade, increased spending in entitlement programs, bailouts and its associated fraud, etc.

Don't disagree with you at all....

Remember the GOP's Promise to America, where they said they'd get rid of Obamacare?

So how is that working? Granted the budget is in the front seat, but I haven't heard a word about it.

Yes, I remember it very well... And they are wussing out.

Many of us will continue to shout from the rooftops, but this nation will go in the direction the voters point it.

Then we need more voters on our side.

[Backstop]

Game Over = Game On.

I like it.

[Phil Fiord]

I ponder this "Experiment" phrase. I googled "The great experiment".

I came across an interesting page that talks about original intent vs what we have now that is interesting, but not rhetoric.

http://www.nccs.net/articles/ril71.html

	Will The Great American Experiment Succeed? Thomas Jefferson, in his First Inaugural Address, enumerated what he called 'the essential principles of our government . which ought to shape its Administration.' He then stated: "These principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civil instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety." Background When asked by a curious citizen after the adjournment of the Constitutional Convention what kind of government had been structured by the Founding Fathers, Benjamin Franklin is said to have answered: "...A REPUBLIC, IF YOU CAN KEEP IT." The extensive Constitutional republic they envisioned, in reality, became a place of liberty and opportunity for countless millions of people from all over the world. Their ideas work­ed, because they were based on enduring principles which recognized human imperfection and the need to structure a limited government of laws, dependent upon the consent of a people who, themselves, understood the principles.

The article goes on to some length.

[Phil Fiord]

If O wins in 2012, it is because he or his puppetmasters bought it.

[American Patriot]

Posted to my email this morning:

As more politicians declare their candidacy for the upcoming 2012 Presidential Election and other political races, we want to remind you about the limitations placed on Federal employees who engage in partisan political activities. Federal employee involvement in political activity is governed by the Hatch Act at 5 U.S.C. 7321-26 and OPM's implementing regulations at 5 C.F.R. Parts 733 and 734. The Hatch Act is enforced by the Office of Special Counsel (OSC). In addition, similar military regulations apply to service members.

In accordance with the Hatch Act, Federal employees may not engage in political activity while on duty. In addition, they may not use government resources, such as computers, to engage in political activity. Examples of

prohibited activity include posting a flier in the workplace that is critical or supportive of a candidate for office, wearing a political button while on duty, or forwarding an e-mail from a government computer that is critical or supportive of a candidate. Hatch Act violations are prosecuted by the Office of Special Counsel and result in removal from federal service unless mitigated to not less than a 30-day suspension by the Merit Systems Protection Board.

Finally, be advised that the posting of disparaging or embarrassing comments, cartoons, or other message directed toward the President as Commander-in-Chief, other elected officials, and candidates for political office is prohibited. MDA Directive 4120.01, Signage, prohibits posting of items that are political, discriminatory, or objectionable in nature.

For more information, please visit the OSC website http://www.osc.gov/hatchact.htm or contact the MDA General Counsel’s Office at MDA Ethics@mda.mil.