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Thread: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States
    July 25, 2011

    Someone dropped a bomb on the bond market Thursday – a $1 billion Armageddon trade betting the United States will lose its AAA credit rating.

    In one moment, an invisible trader placed a single trade that moved the most liquid debt market in the world.

    The massive trade wasn’t placed in bonds themselves; it was placed in the futures market.

    The trade was for block trades of 5,370 10-year Treasury futures executed at 124-03 and 3,100 Treasury bond futures executed at 125-01.

    The value of the trade was about $850 million dollars. In simple terms, if that was a direct bond buy, no one would be talking about it.

    However, with the use of futures, you have to have margin capacity behind the trade. That means with a single push of a button someone was willing to commit more than $1 billion of real capital to this trade with expectations of a 10-to-1 return ratio.

    You only do this if you see an edge.
    This means someone is confident that the United States is either going to default or is going to lose its AAA rating. That someone is willing to bet the proverbial farm that U.S. interest rates will be going up.

    I believe what happened is a debt-ceiling deal was done in Washington and leaked to a major proprietary trader. Everyone knows the debt negotiations in Washington have been an extreme game of brinksmanship between political parties, but now someone knows how that game played out.

    This had the hallmarks of one of the largest bond shops in the world knowing something the rest of the market didn’t.

    The number of shops or even central banks that can take on this level of market risk is extremely small. Some that come to mind are hedge fund manager John Paulson, Bill Gross’s PIMCO, and the U.S. and Chinese central banks.

    Paulson already scored big – about $6 billion big – on a similar trade years ago when he bet against subprime mortgages, the investments that helped bring down Lehman Bros. and many other investors.

    Whoever was behind it wanted a trade on ASAP, and didn’t care about the ripples they would cause.



    You can see how this trade caused fear to be unleashed in the market once it got out and the implications hit by looking at U.S. Treasuries. People who were long 30-year Treasuries panicked as they saw the huge short put on the futures market, and started to unwind their long exposure.

    What you, as investors, should do now is look at the bond exchange-traded funds (ETFs) that provide a positive rate of return when U.S. Treasuries drop in value. Yields are going up sooner rather than later, if the person behind this Armageddon trade is correct.

    We’re in the midst of the greatest investing boom in almost 60 years. And rest assured – this boom is not about to end anytime soon. You see, the flattening of the world continues to spawn new markets worth trillions of dollars; new customers that measure in the billions; an insatiable global demand for basic resources that’s growing exponentially ; and a technological revolution even in the most distant markets on the planet. And Money Morning is here to help investors profit handsomely on this seismic shift in the global economy. In fact, we believe this is where the only real fortunes will be made in the months and years to come.

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    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    I think the used a short list of WHO could do this future. That list is a little longer than that.

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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States


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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    He seems to be the frontrunner in peoples' bets on who this was. China is #2.

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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    I have tried six times now to post something in this thread, this will be number 7.

    Anyway, I have one question, what does this REALLY mean?
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Donaldson View Post
    I have tried six times now to post something in this thread, this will be number 7.

    Anyway, I have one question, what does this REALLY mean?
    1. Somebody is insider trading
    2. Investors are going to get a haircut
    3. Interest rates will go up, drastically
    4. If debt service becomes unmanageable, there will be a default
    5. If a default occurs, there could be a collapse
    6. the market will probably drop like a stone when the deal is announced.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Thank you.
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Well, I'm not cashing in IRAs or bank accounts.

    If the economy fails though, I will lead an insurrection. lol
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Malsua View Post
    3. Interest rates will go up, drastically
    If interest rates go up our debt skyrockets.

    Unfortunately for us, up is the only direction interest rates can really go.

    It's like having a credit card with a 0% introductory rate, going out and maxing it out, making minimum payments, and then having it change to the standard 10-20% interest rate. You end up "suddenly" owing a lot more and your payments go up quickly.

    And as I posted in another thread, the Dems' solution is to go out and get another credit card to make the payments we owe.


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Ruck View Post
    If interest rates go up our debt skyrockets.

    Unfortunately for us, up is the only direction interest rates can really go.

    It's like having a credit card with a 0% introductory rate, going out and maxing it out, making minimum payments, and then having it change to the standard 10-20% interest rate. You end up "suddenly" owing a lot more and your payments go up quickly.

    And as I posted in another thread, the Dems' solution is to go out and get another credit card to make the payments we owe.

    Well, that was unspoken in my post, perhaps I should have elucidated. If interest rates rise, debt service rises. Once it becomes unmanageable a default is likely. Once a default is likely, a collapse is possible. It spins out of control quickly.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Malsua View Post
    Once a default is likely, a collapse is possible. It spins out of control quickly.
    Yep. That said, the Republicans need to hold the line and not allow anything worse than cut/cap/balance to pass. This will be entirely in Obama's lap. As Truman said...

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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    The problem is, as Jay dipshit said a few minutes ago, "This is juvenile"... well, *I* don't think it is, but the Dems do, and so do the Socialists in office.

    They think they should get their way, which is why they are bitching and whining about "compromise".

    The Republicans are on to their stupid "compromise" solutions.

    Compromise on the Left means simply, "Give up, give in and do it ALL OUR WAY, screw your way".

    Republicans have for years done it that way, now that they are standing up and fighting back, the Dems think they are being "juvenile".

    This is bullshit on their part, and the SOCIALISTS IN OFFICE are ready to do things by going AROUND Congress.


    We have to have this STOP to things to make a change. Until they get it, they aren't going to "get it".
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    China downgrades America

    By James Kwantes 4 Aug 2011 COMMENTS(3) Your Money
    Filed under: gold, Goldcorp, crude oil, China, Pan American Silver, New Gold, First Quantum Minerals, Debt, debt ceiling

    The line jumped out at me from a recent CMC Markets morning note:
    "China's credit rating agency Dagong downgraded the U.S. to A from A+ with a negative outlook, citing the increased debt limit and questions over creditor protection in the current political and economic environment."

    America, you've been Dagonged. Here's the Daily Mail story.

    The move "suggests that China may be getting more concerned about its U.S. exposure and that it may be stuck holding the bag should another financial or political crisis flare up," according to CMC Markets analyst Colin Cieszynski. China's problems have been well-documented -- including, depending on whom you talk to, a residential real estate bubble, rising inflation and questionable corporate governance. But the Asian powerhouse is also the top foreign holder of U.S. debt. That would be the debt that narrowly escaped getting downgraded by American ratings agencies in the wake of the theatrical U.S. debt ceiling fiasco.

    So China has a direct stake in what happens south of the border, just as the rest of the world -- including Canada, increasingly -- has a direct stake in China's economy. Some commentators contend that the Chinese economy is sailing along on a bubble inflated by cheap government money and real estate speculation -- sound familiar, Canada? But it's hard to argue that in a world where the power balance is shifting from west to east, China's economic clout is rising as quickly as America's is falling.

    On the stock markets today, the S&P/TSX Composite Index was getting hammered in early trading. The TSX was down more than 450 points, or 3.5%, as investors fled for the exits in the face of global economic worries.

    Crude oil prices reflected fears that the economic recovery has stalled: North American crude was down more than $2 to $89.88 US a barrel.

    Gold was holding steady at $1,660 US an ounce but mining stocks were down across the board: First Quantum Minerals was down more than 8% to $114.97, Teck Resources dropped more than 6% to $43.06, Goldcorp was down 3% to $45.50 and Lundin Mining was down 17% to $5.55.

    The Dow Jones industrial average was down more than 2.5% to 11,570 and the Nasdaq dropped 90 points to 2,603. The Canadian dollar was more than 1.3 cents lower to 102.63 cents US and gold was down slightly to $1,660 US an ounce.

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    Nikita Khrushchev: "We will bury you"
    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
    No, you won’t accept
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    ."
    We’ll so weaken your
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    until you’ll
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 15 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    like overripe fruit into our hands."



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    Super Moderator Malsua's Avatar
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Malsua View Post
    1. Somebody is insider trading
    2. Investors are going to get a haircut
    3. Interest rates will go up, drastically
    4. If debt service becomes unmanageable, there will be a default
    5. If a default occurs, there could be a collapse
    6. the market will probably drop like a stone when the deal is announced.

    1 was right.
    2 is possible
    3 is going to happen
    4 and 5 are to be seen
    6 happened.

    Now for #7.

    On Monday, August 8, there is going to be some very "problematic" action on the market.

    My guess, the Asian markets will go bonkers up and down and end on a negative bias...down but nothing super crazy. The Saudi Tadawul is down 5% so far and it will go like that through India and the other markets as the day progresses. When this baby hits 5pm Eastern Sunday August 7, you're gonna see some serious shit!

    When Wall Street opens on Monday, the bottom will fall out. It's entirely possible that the circuit breakers will trip here and there and halt trading. We may even see a 4 digit drop...but here's the thing. I expect the market to return by the end of the day, perhaps even up for the day.

    Right now, the market is so rigged that it's hedge funds and computers comprising much of the volumes. It sells off in the morning and recovers in the afternoon after big moves.

    Also, it's clear that many people had insider knowledge of the S&P downgrade so some of the ultimate correction was already priced in on Friday.

    It's not doomsday yet but as I've been saying for a while now, equities are very dangerous.

    As a note, I just don't know what to think about how the bond market will react. I've felt bonds in general are not a good investment because there's some nastiness on the way...I just don't know what to think other than a vague "BAD" .
    Last edited by Malsua; August 7th, 2011 at 12:29.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Just going to post the headlines as I get time today.

    Tel Aviv Stock Exchange opens to 6% losses as global crisis felt in Israel
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national...srael-1.377396
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Oh man, Mal... I hope you're WAY wrong.

    All I can say is this is all "man driven".... people are scared because our own government scared them. BECAUSE OF that scare we're going to see a crash that will likely rival if not exceed the 1929 crash.
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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Apmex Is On Hiatus Until Asia Open

    "*Attention – Due to the uncertainty in the global precious metals markets, we will not be able to accept any additional orders until the global markets re-open in Asia. We expect to be accepting orders around 6:15 pm EST. Sunday August 7th, 2011, following the market open.


    ------------
    Translation....Gold is going to the moon.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    German Govt: Italy Too Big For EFSF To Save - Spiegel
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    G20 Leaders Hold Emergency Conference Call in Wake of S&P US Downgrade


    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/g20-...-us-downgrade/

    ----------------
    Panic in the year zero.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade Placed Against The United States

    Ok... Mal... do you see this scenario on Monday open?

    Asian, then European Markets tank.

    US falls quickly, rises back up at close, but Tuesday crashes....

    Europe crashes and burns this week due to defaulting (among other things).

    EU going by way of the Dinosaur within two weeks.
    Libertatem Prius!


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