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Thread: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Thing is, as Catfish says, if each country cleans it's OWN house - there won't have to be any wars.

    However.... everyone is on edge.

    Israel is under a direct threat of annihilation by Iran. One or two nukes will be the next attempt to destroy the Israelis.

    We can NOT let that happen.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    You can hear president Obummer saying in his halting speech "What happen today in Israel is tragic. We have to work harder to make sure that Iran is contained to prevent these attacks in the future". All the while there are smoking holes in Israel.

    Reagan however would get in front "Today, we have taken action to ensure than Iran is no longer a threat to the world. Thank you, good night."
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    And why is that? Last time I checked Israel was at least somewhat capable of defending herself, and if she isnt, she never will be no matter how much we help.
    REALLY? You're the one who has spent much of your time saying how "Israel won't do anything" and "isn't nuclear".

    Why should the US tie her national interest to Israel's national security? Where's our interest? Israel is doomed, and was so from the beginning. The only interest for the US I can see is that Israel holds back Islam geopolitically to an extent, even though Israel's existence has been the main spur to the creation of Millitant modern Islam.
    Well... according to what I understand, the US has no formal treaty with Israel.

    So you think, given your statements above we (the United States, and her citizens) ought to sit this out and let Israel's people die at the hands of a nuclear weilding mad man?

    Ok, we know where you stand without a doubt now, Michael.

    I've always wondered about you and your anti-Semitic remarks. Now, I reckon you've clearly stated your stance on this.

    Israel is doomed from within, not by any potential outside threat....Demographics. And my feeling is that any big war with Israel will doubtless for that reason take place mainly within Israel. And the reason Israel isn't doomed just by Iranian nuclear ambitions is because Iran already has the bomb, and is now working on an ability to have a home-grown ability, and Israel is and was too paralyzed by her own internal contradictions to take serious action against Iran, ever. This is why Israel never has and never will attack Iran directly. And it is also why the US will not risk it either, especially under an Obama Presidency.
    Being "doomed" to demographics is like saying New York is doomed because of the "melting pot" syndrome.

    The end of the State of Israel will bear closer resemblence to the fall of South Africa not South Vietnam though, with a whimper not a bang.
    We will see.

    I believe you're more wrong now about this than you have ever been.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    We don't have a Ronald Reagan, that's for sure. And if the GOP doesn't come up with a candidate on that scale or greater to oppose Obama, America is in serious trouble.
    American is ALREADY is serious trouble.

    Right now Cain is the ONLY guy to come close.

    Everyone wants Mittens. I don't trust him.

    I like Newt, but I don't trust him either.

    I trust Cain.

    If he doesn't get in, its not a matter of "being in trouble". It will be a matter of how fast this country destroys itself by being taxed to death
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Michael, you do NOT believe in America. Not at all. Not one bit.

    You can say what you think but it's pretty obvious you really just "do NOT get it" when it comes to what Freedom truly means. You don't seem to grasp (and neither do any of the dumb fucks on the Left who are constantly screaming about the US helping everyone else) that FREEDOM is not free.

    Countries, INCLUDING Israel deserve all the help they can get from the United States.

    Just because you're a wannabe Libertarian or whatever and wish to isolate America doesn't mean it's going to happen or in fact when we don't isolate ourselves it happens to be the wrong thing to do.

    Isolationism is the MAIN cause of destruction of countries in this world and has been for Centuries.

    Israel has a United Nations MANDATE dating from 1947 to be allowed to exist, and yet countries like Iran, Egypt (in the past), Syria and other Arab Nations (usually run by lunatics I might add) have tried time and again to destroy them.

    At times, and without our help they have managed to stay afloat.

    But when it comes to the use and building of nuclear weapons you really need to understand that our fate IS indeed tied directly to that of Israel. The destruction of Israel by a nutcase with nukes is only the FIRST country that will be obliterated.

    The RUSSIANS and CHINESE are in cahoots with these fucks from the get-go and we're on the list next.... Once they are successful in the elimination of several million Jews, the rest of the Infidels are going to be checked off and eliminated from London to New York.

    Won't matter if you're a damned Jew, Protestant, or a Catholic - hell, even the Buddhists will be taken care of by these barbarians.

    So - back to your "beliefs" - or lack thereof.

    You can not survive in a vacuum. Period. You will die. Allowing Israel to cease to exist is neither right, nor it is "American".

    Sorry, you are simply WRONG.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    As this situation heats up, I have a feeling we're going to hear considerably more rhetoric and perhaps even out and out threats from Russia. I fear that Russia is going to use the Iranian nuke scenario to ramp up their military activities. Actually, it's safe to say they already have. What comes next is less posturing and more action. It could get ugly in a hurry.

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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    I doubt Israel's ability to survive, or an American interest in shedding American troops lifeblood for Israel, and you dare question my AMERICAN patriotism, when you take up the call of the 'Israel-firsters'?
    Freedom is not free. Never has been. I'm not here to "protect the military" from doing their job. I'm not an "Israel First" person. I'm a FREEDOM first person.

    Doesn't matter which country is being attacked, or "doomed" as you're putting it. It's ALWAYS in America's BEST interest to be involved in either keeping the peace or saving freedom therefore when someone says "To hell with Israel" I suspect strongly they could care less about freedom thus, yes, Michael, I AM questioning your patriotism and beliefs.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Michael, I'm afraid that what I see is the trap is here in America already with the attitude that "it ain't our problem".

    The destruction of Israel IS our problem. We're next on the list.

    Our enemies are HERE, NOW and in our faces. They are fucks from "Occupy", the Commies, the Socialists and the Liberals. They are Libertarians that want us isolated from the world.

    They are already here and attempting to convince you, me and anyone else that will listen that "Big Business" and "banks" are the problem, that the Rich aren't Taxed enough and that legalization of drugs will solve all our problems, that getting "Religion out of Government" will save us all.

    When in fact, ALL of those things are simply pieces to the larger puzzle designed to pull your mind away from the real world and the REST of the world.

    Israel is doomed by your standards because apparently they haven't kicked enough ass I guess.

    Truth be told Michael, one day you say one thing, and then another day you say something that completely erases any hope one might have for your beliefs.

    You're vague and unclear many times on what you mean, and when you're not being vague or unclear, you flat out give the impression that "We shouldn't be worrying about Israel" (among other things).

    I never have any idea where you're coming from, where you're going or why you're even arguing your point at times.

    I suspect that ever American here seems the similarities in the USA and Israel... and regardless of your interpretation of what the Founding Fathers wanted, America is still a great country and NOT all their "idealism" was right and proper.

    If indeed America's ONLY interest was "self interest" then explain why in the hell we had to fight the war of 1812, the Barbary wars and the war in 1778?

    We remained "neutral" (1792) in each of the above but in each case were FORCED to intervene. France seized our vessels. The British seized our vessels, in both cases we were neutral to each.

    And yet, because France and Britain were at war, they used us as pawns.

    We eventually had to kick the asses of the British (1812-1814) yet a second time both on the ocean and in the Great Lakes.

    Tripoli (Barbary Wars) had to surrender to us after we sent the Marines in (after they seized our vessels over there, then a war ship).

    Michael, you're speaking to someone who is illiterate or doesn't understand either the Founding Fathers, the Constitution or History.

    Honestly, Patriotism is not "keeping to ones self" it is standing up for what America is supposed to MEAN and STAND for. Freedom.

    Even for Israel.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterle Matteo View Post
    Please.

    What choosen?

    What God?

    What special?
    Chosen people is from the Bible.

    I don't believe any of that nonsense myself. God MIGHT have chosen them, but who knows?

    It is not, and never HAS been the point with me.

    If Italy was under attack every freaking day from arab missiles, I'd be saying the same thing. Or Denmark from Russian Missiles. Or the British by German rockets.

    Iran is full of people who are fanatics (and I rarely believe that ANY given country is full of nutcases, usually it's just the government) but in this case, ANY country full of Muslims is full of nutcases.

    Israel is surrounded by a nutcases. All of whom wish to kill Jews.

    Is this right? Reasonable to anyone? If it IS reasonable to "leave well enough alone" and let them fend for themselves then the world has failed in its humanity.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    What i'm saying simply is that It's a country that cannot sustain It's existence, much less It's peace and freedom, and that to try to do what It Itself cannot or will not do for Itself is an exercise in futility.
    Michael is right, those things are more "religion" than "politics".

    As to the above comments Michael, America is having it's own difficulties maintaining it's existence. Should we give up?
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Those early wars you mentioned all came about because American interests, mainly American Sailors, were threatened. Doesn't that kind of prove my point?
    Yes... BUT, the point being (and it's my point, and proving my own point) we IGNORED what they did to American sailors for many years, leading up to the war of 1812.

    The British made "rules" for the sea, basically they stopped every ship (not just Americans) and they impressed sailors usually the younger, stronger ones, or those with certain skills they wanted for their own.

    Basically they raped the ships passing by them and they had "their rules" for doing so.

    No one argued with them or they simply took what they wanted anyway. Including the Americans, until a time when it got so bad everyone started to fight it. However, only America stood up for the rights of themselves and EVERYONE ELSE until Britain changed the "rules".

    You are arguing two different things. Israel cannot and will not survive as It is. We simply cannot do for others what they cannot and will not do for themselves, and it isn't even possible with Israel, as it cannot nor will not resolve the contradiction of being simultaneously a 19th century ethno-religious/'blood-and-Soil' Nationalist State AND a Secular Representative Democracy. They simply can't survive being both OR either, for that matter.
    Wrong again. How many European countries have a missile shield? NONE. Who can do for them what they can not do for themselves. US, the US can. Period.

    Most large countries can produce tanks, train a military, fly planes and protect their borders.

    NONE of them can protect themselves against a Russian built ICBM, a Chinese built ICBM, a North Korean built ICBM or an Iranian built ICBM. Place nuclear warheads on any one of those weapons and you have annihilation. Something only WE can assist them with.

    If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, you can bet your ass Tel Aviv will be leveled as soon as Nutjob gets the opportunity.

    If we DO NOT assist them they will pretty much die.

    IF they do (can and will) go after Iranian nuclear facilities before that first bomb is produced and bomb them back into 1989 or earlier, there won't be any nukes for another 2-3 decades coming out of Iran.

    It we stand by and watch or TRY TO STOP them (which is a greater fear than yours of helping them) - something Obama's administration has tried to do more than once already, then they certainly ARE doomed - BECAUSE of us.

    Evil thrives because good men FAIL TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

    America IS the good guy.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    We don't have a Ronald Reagan, that's for sure. And if the GOP doesn't come up with a candidate on that scale or greater to oppose Obama, America is in serious trouble.
    Michael - you stated something earlier - I think in this thread about needing a Reagan. Might have been in another thread.

    Either way, your argument here about not getting involved with Israel and needing a Reagan are both diametrically opposed.

    As Mal pointed out, Reagan would "take care of the problem" and move on. But the problem as I've pointed out here (and in the other thread I started) is that we're NOT taking care of the problem.

    You believe that we shouldn't be involved outside of America.

    Reagan believes in "Shaping the World".... not isolationism. While you, on the one hand are stating you're not an isolationist, on the other hand you're practically demanding it here in this thread by insisting that we stay out of the Israeli-Iran matter.

    So you see... I have a real problem with your arguments. Saying how we need Reagan then saying we need to stay out of it.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    Reagan learned his lesson about the Middle East snakepit in Lebanon, and if he were in charge today, I think he would suprise all of us with his initiatives. My arguement isn't contradictory. I'm no isolationist, but I'd do what was right and humane. Supporting Israel to the extent we do is wrong because Israel is the worst possible option for the survival of the Jewish people and thus not right and humane, period. It is and will be a deathtrap for them and cannot be anything else. That's not 'anti-semitism', that's the highest kind of 'pro-semitism' there is, in my opinion.

    I have never said that America shouldn't get involved, I just think America sometimes gets involved in the wrong places for the wrong reasons or does the right thing initially in an intervention and then leaves before the job is finished.
    America DOES get involved where it shouldn't at times. Vietnam, stopping our own country from drilling for oil off our OWN coasts while everyone ELSE CAN.... sure we do.

    Reagan didn't learn from Lebanon. he LEARNED from Iran. Do you remember the hostages the Iranians took? I DO, I was on the ground there to help get them out, more than once. During the Carter Administration -which FAILED MISERABLY. Reagan was watching from the side lines and stated CLEARLY that the day he took office the hostages would be freed, or he would free them, it was Iran's choice.

    He stated it clearly during the debates, and at every chance he had. The message was clear to the Iranians.

    "Release the hostages, or we will take them out and destroy you in the process".

    We didn't call him "Ronnie Raygun" for nothing when I worked for him.

    On 20 January 1981 the President Elect took his oath of office. That same day within a couple of hours, the hostages were released and taken to Algeria and then to Rhein-Main Air Base. I passed through there a few hours later as I departed my station in Egypt. I stopped in Ramstein and then on to Rhein-Main to head back to the states that very same day.

    Reagan was planning on sending in the Special Forces, Marines and a whole military contingent to save the hostages and anyone that got in the way would have been vaporized in the process.

    There was NO mistaking his point.

    This is the same point we should be making about Israel right now. Not vacillating about whether we should STOP them from doing what they think is right.

    The President of this country ought to be standing up and saying, "There will NOT be a nuclear Iran, and we will assist Israel by any means necessary".

    Not whining about "having to deal with him every day".

    What a lame brain, idiotic excuse for a man....
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by michael2 View Post
    The countries you mention are dependant militarily for political, not technical reasons. A bigger military budget cuts into the Social Welfare net Europe currently 'enjoys'.

    Iran already has the Bomb, and they haven't nuked Tel Aviv....The non-Israeli powers in the region want a post-Israel 'Palestine' with an infrastructure more or less intact, and they can even wait until Israel implodes from the demographic time bomb and her internal contradictions. Do I want a Nuclear Iran? No, but I believe it's a 'done deal' Do I want to see the destruction of Israel or any other country? Again no, but yet again, I believe it's a 'done deal,' inevitable even.
    1) While it is indeed true England has cut their military by a 30 or 40 percent over the past few years, some of the countries asking for help like Israel have not.

    2) Iran has the bomb? Evidence. IAEA even says they don't have it, YET, but will within 5 months or less. Other intelligence organizations confirm that, and this information has been in the news. NOTHING in the news about them "having the bomb". And if they DO, then it's time to shut them down, NOT let them perfect it.

    I think I missed something in your other post about Israel being "stuck"... what's your solution? For them to MOVE?

    Where too? Seattle?
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Boys and Girls - Michael2, I'm about to go out on a long limb here and do something that I hate doing. Making a prediction.

    The prediction is very simple and I won't date it except to say if it doesn't happen in the next couple of months the prediction was obviously wrong or far off.

    We will be in another war within the next two or three months. Israel will indeed go after Iran's nuclear site and probably lose some pilots and planes to do it. The US will assist as it can, piss off Russia and Israel will suffer by Russia's hands, we will try to help and the Russians will retaliate against the US. It will quickly go nuclear.

    Simple, to the point.

    Vector posted some stuff today... Russia has basically threatened us with nukes. They couched it in language that makes it sound more "diplomatic" and "could lead to nuclear war" but that was an out and out threat against us.

    Now we see they are actually moving ships in place.

    Boys and girls, welcome to the 21st century.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    You may very well be right.

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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    I hope to Heaven I'm wrong.

    On the bright side, when I make a prediction Murphy's Law states clearly that "If Rick makes a prediction, it most certainly will not come true"....

    Perhaps that will be correct.
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    While is see war coming, I do hope you are wrong in your layout.

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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    IAEA Board Reproaches Iran on Nuclear Efforts

    Friday, Nov. 18, 2011


    The International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-nation governing board admonished Iran on Friday over rising international fears that the Persian Gulf state might be pursuing a nuclear-weapon capability, Reuters reported (see GSN, Nov. 17).
    (Nov. 18) - Iranian Ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency Ali Asghar Soltanieh waits for the IAEA Board of Governors to begin its meeting on Friday. The 35-nation board adopted a resolution voicing concern over Iran's nuclear program (AP Photo/Ronald Zak).
    Board members adopted a resolution on the matter days after IAEA Director General Yukiya Amano issued a safeguards report raising "serious concerns" that Iran is secretly moving to establish an atomic-weapon capacity (see GSN, Nov. 9). Tehran has consistently denied assertions that its nuclear program is geared toward weapons development.
    Chinese and Russian resistance to firm penalties contributed to their absence in the final resolution. Cuba and Ecuador opposed the measure, while Indonesia declined to cast a vote.
    "At this point, it doesn't really ratchet up the pressure on Iran," said Mark Hibbs, an analyst with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. The document sets no time limits for Iran to address international concerns, he added.
    Iran's ambassador to the U.N. nuclear watchdog berated the organization for purportedly providing advance copies of the safeguards report to France, the United States and the United Kingdom.
    The document is "unprofessional, unbalanced, illegal and politicized," Ambassador Ali Asghar Soltanieh told the governing board before the resolution was adopted. "Any resolutions based on this report ... are not legally binding, thus they are not applicable," he said (Dahl/Westall, Reuters I, Nov. 18).
    Washington on Friday asserted Iran was pursuing a "provocative expansion" of atomic efforts of concern and suggested that Tehran might have shifted a quantity of uranium to defense activities.
    "Iran's covert attempts to develop undeclared pathways for the production of nuclear material and work on nuclear weapons technology leaves little doubt that Iran, at the very least, wants to position itself for a nuclear weapons capability," U.S. Ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency Glyn Davies said in prepared remarks.
    The U.S. envoy criticized Iranian moves to transfer the production of higher-enriched uranium to the hardened Qum facility. The 20 percent enriched material enables Iran to potentially produce nuclear-weapon material more quickly. Weapon-grade uranium must be refined to roughly 90 percent, but Tehran insists the material is intended to fuel a medical research reactor.
    "Stockpiling uranium enriched to near 20 percent is a dangerous provocation because it positions Iran to move closer to the production of highly enriched uranium in a shorter period of time," Davies said.
    The IAEA safeguards report refers to a "discrepancy" of roughly 44 pounds of atomic material at the Jabr Ibn Hayan Multipurpose Research Laboratory in Tehran, Davies said. The U.N. nuclear watchdog said it was communicating with Iran to address the matter, and Soltanieh said it was "absolutely not an issue."
    Davies countered that the question demanded "immediate" clarification and referred to indications that Iran's military program had access to "kilogram quantities" of natural uranium metal. The material in question could not fuel a weapon but might aid in related development activities, according to analysts.
    "It remains to be seen whether this discrepancy could ultimately represent another piece in the puzzle the IAEA is assembling to show Iran's nuclear weapons-related activities," Davies stated (Dahl/Westall, Reuters II, Nov. 18).
    Meanwhile, Senator Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) on Thursday introduced a bill enabling the Obama administration to blacklist any non-U.S. financial entity engaging in transactions with Iran's central bank, Agence France-Presse reported (Agence France-Presse I/Google News, Nov. 17).
    Six prominent Democratic and Republican lawmakers on Thursday pressed President Obama in a letter to investigate whether the central bank is linked to deals aiding weapons of mass destruction efforts or violent extremism, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) announced (U.S. Representative Nancy Pelosi release, Nov. 17).
    Elsewhere, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Thursday said he would note the potential dangers of employing armed force against Iran in talks with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak on Friday, AFP reported (Agence France-Presse II/Daily Star, Nov. 17).
    North Korea on Friday rejected reports that it had provided nuclear weapons assistance to Iran, the Associated Press reported (Associated Press/Google News, Nov. 18).
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    Default Re: Tinfoil Time - Mil Buildup = EOW?

    Iran doesn't HAVE it yet. When they DO, they will bomb Israel. Period.

    Don't you listen to what your own ears hear? Don't you actually read what your own eyes can see? How many times has Ackmadenajad been reported to have stated "Israel must be wiped from the face of the Earth" and other such words????

    Yes, there have been such predictions. And they have come from kooks and idiots trying to scare people. I will tell you that I have certain information which I can't and won't share here that has made me post the above information.

    Now, granted I don't like conspiracy at all -and this information is not about conspiracy. Unfortunately for me I live and work in a place where I'm surrounded by the military, I'm surrounded by policy makers and people who will be the arm of that policy when the time comes to be such.

    I can see what's in front of my own face, and read the papers, read the reports and read the news here on this very site and put a few puzzle pieces together. Also, very unfortunately for you (or my argument at the moment) I can't tell you EVERYTHING I'm aware of....

    BUT, I can tell you THIS, everything you've read on the forums of late is fully verified and things are going into play (as in a chess game) that none of us has any control over.

    The ONLY control we have right now is over ourselves. My advice to you is to stock up some food, water, weapons if you have them (if you don't then so be it) and be ready to MOVE if you must or hunker down if you can.

    I don't see things going very well in the next 2-3 months. If we get past Christmas and things settle a bit then I've cried wolf. If not then you will know as soon as any of us.
    Libertatem Prius!


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