Major US Intelligence Agency Reveals ET Contact

[American Patriot]

'Us'? You have a mouse in your pocket? Anybody here is perfectly capable of speaking their mind to me or you if they don't understand or if they simply disagree. And I'm not trying to win a popularity contest, either.

I said "us" because "us" is talking offline about this, and in other areas. Michael, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not trying to win a popularity contest either. I own the Ban button. So watch your mouth.

You are engaging in a typically post-modern thought process, dividing God from Reason to create a space where Science alone can speak to the masses about reality in any meaningful way, pushing God into the realm of the Subjective, to 'feelings.' God is a Fact, actually the central Fact to any believer, and it isn't that reason isn't used to communicate the facts of belief-after all the central FACTS of the Christian Faith weren't 'done in a corner' as st. Paul says, and if the central Fact of Christianity is false, then there is no reason to believe in it at all. Christianity is based on One single Fact, the Resurrection of the Son of God, and if that Fact isn't true...

And YOU are engaging your mouth without thinking, as usual.

God is a BELIEF. God is a deity that many believe in. No one has proven God exists, or doesn't exist. Period.

Beliefs - as in religion, UFOs, alien abductions and other such things are all JUST THAT, a BELIEF without proof.

There's nothing "post modernist" about that. It's a FACT that God has never been proven to exist or not exist. That's all I said.

Once you come to this realization, it informs Itself on all other facts and mere opinions, and calls for synthesis...In Short, without Jesus Christ nothing can truly be known about anything, and without Whom nothing is known at all. So yes, as a Christian I have the right and actually the duty to discern and unmask deception when I see it. You may see it as foolishness and insanity, and many have, but I'll stick to it to my dying breath God Willing.

Me and God will have our own conversations when the time comes... and certainly those conversations won't include you. It is NOT your duty OR RIGHT to "INFORM" me of anything. Stick your beliefs up your ass and do no proselytize here. I'm NOT interested and neither is anyone else. You are simply pissing off one of the administrators and here God doesn't decide if you continue to blather.

Backstop's joke was indeed a joke, and I got it, but it reveals a larger problem-you and I are the only ones who seem to see larger implications of this, even as I believe you are wrong about the nature of those implications. Some people simply don't know and also don't care about the philosophical/spiritual consequences of this issue. Society has been in a position of default Atheism/Materialism for most of us for some time, so it doesn't suprise me that a general malaise/skepticism/indifference about the UFO/'Alien Contact' Phenomena exists also.

No... everyone sees it. The difference is, like you with your preaching, I have my own personal reasons and experiences that neither you, Backstop or anyone else to my knowledge on this site have. Those experiences go well beyond hypothetical papers and internet discussion. And no, they have nothing to do with deception. So yes, I DO have my opinion and YOU are WRONG when you try to tell me I don't know something or tell me (or imply) how stupid I am about the subject.

I don't care about my intellect or lack therof, and I've no Pride to push my agenda as some kind of personal crusade. If people like and understand what I have to say, fine. If they don't, fine. I've been too humbled by life's experiences to think I can make a difference personally. I say what I say so that IF i'm later shown to be right, people won't come back later and say that I said or did nothing about my own cause.

Good luck with that. Because quite honestly your speech patterns here are NOT conducive to anyone learning anything.

You blather on and on about things sometimes, leaving a LOT open, or expect us to already know the answer, or you're assuming we're versed in what you're talking about.

No... I don't really care what you have to say on God, religion or Aliens. I don't think you're very informed on most of that stuff - you just have your beliefs.

And they don't match mine.

[American Patriot]

'Terror in the cause of even the true Religion, is Terror instead of Religion'-Blaise Pascal.

You really haven't read my posts on 'Jansenism', I guess.

Nope. I don't read nonsense.

[American Patriot]

feel... Peterle. Feel (fell means you fall down, past tense).

lol

[Luke]

Here in opiateland I am having a slight problem grasping what is being talked about, when the pain is less I will attempt to read again from the begininng. From this point in the haze it sounds like the guberment has made sometype of contact with some other "intelligent" beings? Micheal2 and Rick are engaged in disagreement and Peterele is trying to give me flashbacks? I will post a more comprehensive exam later.

[American Patriot]

Should have stayed away from the LSD in the 60s, Luke.



Hope you're feeling better.

[American Patriot]

Rick, you and I disagree on a great many things, but one thing that has been consistant; I've managed to show you courtesy and respect, and you generally do not in return. your 'threats' to ban me mean little. I'm interested in what I'd be banned for; not believing in Intelligent Alien Life and comparing a belief in Alien Life to a religious belief system, which can then be compared to Christianity, etc...? Or maybe just to have the stones to disagree with you?

Michael, I have been more than courteous and mostly respectful to you. In some cases it's quite obvious you want to troll the forums.

What's going to happen I fear is what happens on a great many Forums out there, Forum drift and decline as an ever tighter and smaller group of people view the Forum as a 'club' more and more exclusively belonging to them and them alone. Instead of a Forum dedicated to the disemination of ideas on the 'Trans-Asian Axis, It becomes a small clique that has no interest in allowing debate against their ruling orthodoxy. Usually this happens when a strong personality takes the lead and the others either leave in frustration or tow the line and either shut up or parrot what the few others left say.

Forum drift? How shall I put this? Michael, you are the one who forces the drift. This thread is NOT about God, religion, angels or about whatever shadow group you think is deceiving us.

This is my point. You said something about that earlier on, and then basically walked away from the conversation without explaining what you were talking about (Remember the comments about you knowing your ability to be deceived? by WHOM? for What? Are you suggesting WE are being deceived? WTF were you talking about?)

All of that contributes to off topic nonsense. Which is where you're trying to take this thread. So... stop it.

I personally know why 1957 is an important year, and why some things are now making more sense to me regarding this issue, but it doesn't matter. I'm not going to convince you or anybody else here, so i'm not even going to try. Rick, I understand perhaps some of your frustration, believe me. When you or me or anybody else starts typing about things important to us, we run the risk of being insulted, attacked, or maybe just ignored. Half the reason i'd write the way I do is because...Lacking esteem in myself and being crushed by the World around myself (and inside me), I am guarded in what I say and do at all times. I'm not being cryptic or laconic or whatever, trying to by mystifying to add to an aura of superior Knowledge, but a Family history of continual attacks of every kind against me all my life, that has spilled over into everything I say or do outside of my Family, a defensive posture. In other words, i'm paranoid, justified or not. It's something i'm working on, believe me.

Again, you make my point FOR ME. 1957 was important because... I was born that year, so to ME it is important. The space race started then. But you say it was important for some reason, but "it doesn't matter". ANOTHER example of you obfuscating......

I'm not going to budge on the position i've taken on Intelligent Alien Biological Life-I don't believe in It, and I believe we are truly unique in this Universe. As such, certain conclusions flow from that position, and Deception tops the list in my book.

You haven't taken a position that I have been able to discern here. Again, "deception". What deception? Who is doing it? Why? For what purpose? Perhaps if you want to actually CONTRIBUTE to a conversation you might actually take the time to SAY WHAT YOU MEAN instead of make implications and assume we know what you're talking about.

I don't. Neither do many others.

And also on Christianity either. In my Christian belief, its simple;

God Exists because Jesus of Nazereth Exists, and Is God. To me this is a Fact, that He and what He Said and Did, is Proof. That's enough for me these days. Others millage may vary. This isn't opposed to reason or science but is above these things and informs them and guides them to a true understanding of reality. But again, others may disagree.

I don't disagree, OR AGREE. This is a not relevant. God, Jesus, whatever, has nothing to do with the reception of radio signals from outer space. This is not what the topic of the thread is about. The topic of the thread IS about reception of and discussion thereof the signals from outer space.

Maybe you're just not getting this. It isn't about religion. If it is ABOUT any of the other things you've mentioned, perhaps you ought to start actually explaining your point of view rather than assume we know where you stand on a subject?

Hell, If I had only just said that about Intelligent Extraterrestrials, maybe things would've been better...

Maybe if you TRIED to explain what you have been talking about, things would be better.

I've asked you in public and private to stick to topics (in various ways).

As to "banning". We ban people rarely if ever. So far all the bans we've had on this site are spammers, with a couple of noted exceptions, people who were here specifically to troll the site, cause trouble or direct their actions against one of the mods (Usually me, and usually people who were former members of Anomalies who hold grudges.... and those people were on this site from some time before their "agenda" came out).

Bans are done by voting, unless it's an emergency spammer-removal, or an obvious rules infraction.

Why could you be banned?

Because for one I'm sick of you ignoring my requests to 1) remain ON TOPIC, 2) Keep religion out of ANY forum other than one we've reserved for such discussions and 3) Because I'm an Administrator here - and I said so. Simple.

Number three is the reason I might do it. Numbers 1 and 2 are the reasons it might actually happen if you don't start paying some attention to the topic of the threads.

Basically, there was a vote taken some time back and you, Kos and a couple of others were considered for removal. I won't tell you how the vote went.... but I'll suggest you're still here because I don't like to ban people because they act stupid. Not the first time.

Everyone gets more than one chance, and you've run out of chances.

[American Patriot]

I don't recall any attempt on your part to say what the nonsense on that thread was, so I'll just chalk it up to you trying to be disagreeable.

I didn't specify, you did. You mentioned the thread on Jansenism...

That is, one of your periodic attempts to put distance between our mutual positions, like when you and I agreed that there wasn't going to be a shooting war with Russian and American fleets in the Med.

I believe we agreed on that for very different reasons.

I suspect the very idea that I hold such diametrically differing opinions than you, and yet am equally aware of the danger coming from our common enemies, drives you to distraction sometimes.

Negative. The fact that we disagree at all apparently drives you to troll, judging from your stupid grin there in the last comment. We don't hold "diametrically opposed" points of view at all.

In fact, we're probably on the same level when it comes to religion. However, your approach is to preach to others, mine is to live and let live. I don't believe ANYONE, not you, not anyone, has the right to tell me what to believe or tell me how "wrong" I am in "God's eyes".

I don't believe you have the right to sit back there and preach to me when I'm not interested in listening. Especially NOT on a forum like this, that belongs to another.

Preach all you WISH on your OWN forum.

I for one, don't want to hear politics bathed in religion. I don't want to discuss factual data intersperse with religious fanaticism. And that is precisely what you do, and what the Muslims do.

Laws are made by men. Morals were created by God. A men can't be governed by immoral men - and yet we are. And laws don't fix morality. That's in one's heart.

So - leave me and my morality alone (and everyone else's too). Stay out of the preaching business, Michael, it's really not your forte.

[American Patriot]

I was talking about placing the 'radio signal' in a larger context, similar to the position taken by John Keel, the UFO researcher, albeit with a christian slant. Are only non-christians or people willing to suspend said belief able to contribute a meaning to these phenomena? It seems so.

As for you banning me, I would place such a banning in a larger context too, such as my positions regarding Israel's politics or even our disagreement with you about Herman Cain. You can't seem to tolerate dissent.

You're clearly trying to piss me off now aren't you?

Michael, I'd point out that you're the one who can't stand it when folks disagree with you. I'd point out various arguments you've been in with others on here as evidence. Not just me. Kos, Peterle to name two.

In general you chose to make comments on pretty much ANYTHING I say... so really, who has the problem here? Not me.

As far as I am concerned when you fall back on "Christianity" for your behavior, you're copping out and a coward. If you can't speak from an educated point of view, you really should shut up. It's not got anything to do with your religious point of view, it has to do with messing facts into fiction or beliefs.

Believe what you wish. Just keep it out of conversations where science, math and factual, proven data have been shown or are being discussed. That God might play a part in your life, or the manipulation of numbers or encryption keys is something one must take on FAITH, and can't be proven.

Besides... how have you related some so-called "Christian" slant to intelligent life forms in this thread? YOU HAVE NOT.

[American Patriot]

I'm not the one that alludes to various, vague ideas, Michael. I state precisely what I mean (most of the time, on occasion I am short on time and not as clear as I'd like to be, and a lot of the time I'm too verbose just so that I can be CLEAR on what I am actually talking about).

The difference of opinion I have with you has nothing to do with ET intelligences vs religion; it's your presentation of what you have to say.

I'll give you a perfect example.

Your remarks about "Space Brothers" to me was taken as a direct insult either to me personally or my intelligence. Why? I don't have any "space brothers". I don't know any aliens (from space) and if I did I'd likely not admit it anyway. But to allude that somehow I was a buddy or friend to them (which is precisely what it sounded like you were saying) is an insult to me.

Thus - I took it as one.

I'm discussing a subject that is... going over a line for me here and unfortunately I can't fully inform you guys of all I am aware of in the background. There's some ramifications that many of you would even understand in the context of this subject. Ramifications for ME personally, not you all. It wouldn't affect you folks in the least, but it would ME.

Thus - this is one of those times I'm probably way more informed on a subject than ANYONE ELSE that visits this site. And honestly, I can't talk about it. That's all there is to it.

Likewise, but even more so, a discussion about Extraterrestrial Biological Intelligent Life DOES HAVE THEOLOGICAL IMPLICATIONS.

I don't DISAGREE with this statement... and it is something you should have stated up front rather than waiting until we have a full blown nit picking contest over who said what to whom here.

This is ALL I've ever asked of you. Be clear on your meanings when directing something at me (or anyone) personally. When we are on a topic, remain on the topic. If you feel you must introduce something that you think is related to the topic, then provide something (by way of explanation, by way of a news article, document or whatever) to show us how it related.

Opinions are a dime a dozen - every where you go. I value information over opinions - as I believe most do, though if the opinion is "Learned" it's sometimes as good as gold.

In the case of the topic at hand.... while some have stated this was an exercise, and "made up" codes - that is actually NOT the case. In fact we DID receive messages in 1957 from outside the solar system. Can I prove this? No. But I KNOW without any doubt in my mind it occurred. And I know the space race started based this information. I learned this about 29 years ago. I can't say how, why or what information that was provided convinced me of this.

But I'm convinced. I don't ask anyone to BELIEVE me. I've merely been stating my case from my personal experience. NOT MY OPINION. Experience.

This information is as sure to me as are math equations and the information I know about astronomy and physics.

My entire LIFE has revolved around the study of space, stars, astrophysics, planets and the "possibility" of life out there - and when I found out what I found out - I was shocked, but, not to the point of disbelief. Rather to the point of "the lights came on".

And I've been quiet about it until the discovery of the data that was released by the NSA.

That God might play a part in this truly to me isn't relevant.... why? Because I think that God did create Heaven and Earth and "man in his image". Are aliens "men"? They likely are something akin to mammals for sure, but there is also the possibility they are more like insects.

Whatever they are, they are out there. Do they believe in God? THAT remains to be seen.

[Backstop]

There is "The Red Planet" on TV.

One of my favorites.

[American Patriot]

You're right about what I should have said first and why, I think, so I can Cowboy up and apologize for that.

Good enough. I'm sorry that I seem to come off so abrasive to you, it is NOT intentional. I get irked only when -- as you pointed out -- "thread creep" or whatever you want to call it occurs.

My comment about 'Space Brothers' was not aimed at you and I did fear that you took it as an insult. What I was using it for was rather the possible scenario of deception by apparently unknown yet superior intellectually beings...Disguised as Extraterrestrial Lifeforms who we would need to guide us into a 'better future'. I am sure that you personally in that scenario would have your 'bullshit meter' handy. Why? Because for me true Faith and True Reason and Science can never disagree, I'm sure of that, and there are alot of Scientists out there who possess a good deal of integrity. In short, It was a friendly warning, not intended as an insult.

I jumped to a conclusion I guess.

You're correct. My bullshit meter is ALWAYS on and running on new batteries.

I think Stitchen has been the largest pusher of "Aliens smarter than us whom we must bow down to" kind of bullshit. You see... I'm of a mind that "The human race as a whole has done relatively well by itself for thousands of years without the interference of aliens. Why would we bow down to them?"

Period. And that includes ANY sort of "deity" or "supreme being"... I'm afraid I'm very much like Captain James T. Kirk.... and I'd have to ask "Excuse me, but what does God need with a star ship?"

Come on...

And I think too that the terms I'm using to explain myself are vague-If i'm talking in an Science/Reason Arena. After all, what is an 'Alien'? An 'Extraterrestrial Lifeform'? Theologians and Savants for ages have discussed the relationships and differences between Matter and Spirit...What is an 'Angel' or a 'Demon' for that matter? And then even Scripture talks about Beings who don't fall exactly into either catagory, the Nephilim...

Alien is defined as "stranger to this place" - kinda like gringo. Extraterrestrial Lifeform is easy too. A life form that is not indiginous to Earth. Coming from OUTSIDE Earth, like, the moon, Mars, or Jupiter....

An angel or demon is NOT a life form as "we know it". In my OPINION life forms are those creatures who have blood flowing in some form, respiration on-going and may or may not be sentient (thinking, intelligent creatures).

An angel or demon which in my learning was an angel once is a non-living creature that exists beyond how life is defined. That is they are non corporeal beings who perhaps exist on a different plane of existence than ours, can't be harmed or even interacted with in our time-space continuum.

Rick, all i'm saying, and i'm not asking you or anyone else to BELIEVE me either, is that I believe your story based on what I know on the year 1957, from my own research, and it isn't mere OPINION either. And i'm not going to go out on much of a limb either, although I did mention a very large and public phenomena that occured decades earlier that cannot possibly be unrelated. And that's not Christianity talking so much as it's researchers like Jacques Vallee...

Perhaps, since none of us were actually alive (well, lets say we weren't thinking adults) in 1957, since I was born in August and wasn't really "aware" until I was about two years old you might enlighten us on what YOU know about 1957?

We might just be talking about a matter of interpreting the data differently.

Doubtful. My data is based on things I've seen, handled and been briefed on.

Not mere research.

[American Patriot]

I'd love to reply right now but my library's computer i'm using is fixing to 'time out'.

But soon. Note for now what I've mentioned in this thread about a very public Atmospheric Phenomena, visitation by unknown beings with messages for certain officials to comply with, etc...All culminating in 1957 and all this is the 'Fatima Phenomenon.'

The Fatima Phenomenon occurred in 1917... not 1957. Also known as "The Miracle of the Sun" if I recall my history correctly. Hmmm...

here's some quick stuff I found on it.

What occured was witnessed by over 70,000 people including representatives of the media, reporters from all the principal daily newspapers in Lisbon. It was a very wet morning on 13th October, 1917. It had been raining all night. At noon: "Suddenly the rain stopped. The clouds were wrenched apart and the sun appeared in all its splendour. Then it began to revolve on its axis like the most magnificient firewheel that could be imagined, taking all the colours of the rainbow and sending forth multi-coloured flashes of light producing the most astounding effect." (Dr. Formigao, Professor at Santarem, Portugal.)

According to the newspaper Seculo, "the sun trembled, made sudden incredible movements outside all cosmic law - the sun danced." Dr. Almeida Garrett of Coimbra stated: "The sun, whirling wildly seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge and fiery weight. The sensation was terrible." The incident was repeated three times lasted eight to ten minutes. It has since come to be known as the Miracle of the Sun. There can be no doubt that this actually happened as it was well documented by reliable sources. It was not of natural origin as it was not recorded by any astronomical observatory. Neither was it a case of collective hallucionation as it was seen up to 30 kilometres away by people going about their normal duties unconcious of what was happening at Fatima.

Just one source: http://www.answers.com/topic/miracle-of-the-sun

I assume there are other sources, but I couldn't think of any thing specifically atmospherically or sun related than what you mentioned and I know that wasn't in 1957.

[American Patriot]

Honestly, I'm not too interested in occurrences that are touted as being religious in nature. Reason being? I've seen WAY too many hucksters in my time pulling the old "Pray for Rain" routine or something similar in my younger days.

What has amazed me since I was old enough to begin to reason is why people fall for flim-flam men (and women).

Everything from the "Rain Man" (not the movie) to the Electrolux salesman and Fuller Brush Man. Good God, people are stupid sometimes.

When people went nuts over some statue "crying blood" or "crying milk" and so forth I was impressed at the amount of faith folks were willing to put into it and couldn't SEE the facts in front of their faces.

Anyway - UFO phenomenon where photos were taken are a step or two above the eye witness reports and quite honestly I understand why. I've personally witnessed TWO important UFO events in my life and neither time did I have a camera available or the presence of mind to stop and record what I saw in writing.

I've observed one of the "flying triangles" myself here in Colorado. I reported it to the only person I knew associated with MUFON at the time, Olav Phillips. The other thing occurred when I was pretty young. As an adult I could believe it might have been a helicopter without the chopper blade sounds.

However... the next day after seeing this event (lights in the sky which landed in a field a half mile from me, which I was able to see from my room at night, about two AM) I told my Dad, who went with us to the field, found some depressions of the soil and grasses and he called the Sheriff. Sheriff came out, looked it over, called the Air Force based on the three kids descriptions of what we saw.

We didn't know anything about UFOs, aliens or extraterrestrial beings... nothing like that.

AF showed up, used a Geiger counter and took notes and eventually left. There was, if I remember right a Major and a Technical Sergent. I was smart enough to know what the Geiger counter was and asked him about it. He laughed and talked to me a bit about science stuff.

My assumption at this time in my life is he chalked up what we kids said to "reading too much science fiction" - because he specifically ASKED me if I read science fiction (which I had really just become interested in).

Again, I was pretty young.

MANY years later as an adult doing some research on Project Blue Book I realized that our own information should have been available. Turns out, it wasn't. The explanation I discovered was pretty simple. The AF didn't consider children (of ANY AGE up to about 21) to be "reliable witnesses". Thus any information provided by myself, my sister and my cousin was deleted (or never entered) into the records.

My Sister and Cousin are both a couple of years younger than me, and while they remember the incident, I don't think either of them remember the Air Force guys. I do because I felt like I was in one of those damned SCI FI movies.

Many years later, I joined the Air Force and... since then have been enlightened on a LOT of things.

[American Patriot]

[American Patriot]

http://www.meessen.net/AMeessen/MirSun.pdf

Even in this document.... well, basically, even the Church is prudent in examining so-called visions. They can't be checked by independent means. This is and has been my WHOLE argument about religion versus a scientific explanation for something.

Science you can see and measure.

Religious visions can not.

[AGEUSAF]

I'm discussing a subject that is... going over a line for me here and unfortunately I can't fully inform you guys of all I am aware of in the background. There's some ramifications that many of you would even understand in the context of this subject. Ramifications for ME personally, not you all. It wouldn't affect you folks in the least, but it would ME.

Thus - this is one of those times I'm probably way more informed on a subject than ANYONE ELSE that visits this site. And honestly, I can't talk about it. That's all there is to it.

Rick I hope one day that these things are more revealed officially. I realize at that point everyone would probably know once things are opened up on a public level but I think it would be cool to hear peoples stories that had been involved with this sort of thing.

A friend of mine that I grew up with might have a little more to talk about then, not sure what he has been exposed to.

[American Patriot]

Some day...

[American Patriot]

again the difference was a visual sighting of the sun doing strange things that was witnesses and wasn't recorded with video (only some still photos which show nothing but a storm) whereas radio signals were recorded....

certainly two different sorts of events.

[American Patriot]

Mass hypnosis.

[American Patriot]

Correct. In 1917 however, they didn't have those controls Peterle.