Iran the Next Battlefield - Thread Renamed

[Ryan Ruck]

From the Iranian press...

Iran Is A Rational Actor, Top U.S. General Tells CNN

February 19, 2012

Tehran has not decided to make a nuclear weapon, Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in an interview with CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS,” which was scheduled to be broadcast on Sunday.

“We are of the opinion that Iran is a rational actor,” Dempsey said. “We also know, or we believe we know,” that Iran has not decided to make a nuclear weapon, Army General Martin Dempsey stated, according to the Bloomberg.

Elsewhere in his remarks, Dempsey said that an Israeli attack on Iran would be “destabilizing.”

“It’s not prudent at this point to decide to attack Iran,” Dempsey said, adding that the U.S. government is confident the Israelis “understand our concerns.”

The White House National Security Adviser Tom Donilon began a two-day visit to Israel on Saturday to discuss Iran and other issues, such as the issue of Syria.

“A strike… would be destabilizing and wouldn’t achieve their long-term objectives,” Dempsey said of the Israelis.

Crude oil prices increased 4.8 percent in February on concern the tensions between Iran and Israel will lead to a military conflict that disrupts oil supplies from the Persian Gulf.

Iran is OPEC’s second-biggest producer. Iranian officials have threatened to cut off the Strait of Hormuz, through which about a fifth of crude oil trade passes.

[Ryan Ruck]

Russia Warns Israel Not To Attack Iran

February 22, 2012

Russia warned Israel on Wednesday that attacking Iran would be a disastrous and played down the failure of a U.N. nuclear agency mission to Tehran, saying there is still a chance for new talks over the Iranian atomic program.

"Of course any possible military scenario against Iran will be catastrophic for the region and for the whole system of international relations," Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov told a news conference.

It was one of Russia's starkest warnings against resorting to force, an option Israel and the United States have not ruled out if they conclude that diplomacy and increasing sanctions will not stop Iran from developing a nuclear bomb.

"I hope Israel understands all these consequences ... and they should also consider the consequences of such action for themselves," Gatilov said. "I hope a realistic approach will prevail, along with a sensible assessment."

Russia, China as well as many allies of the United States are concerned that any military action against Iran could engulf the Middle East in wider war, which would send oil prices rocketing at a time of global economic troubles.

Iran has threatened to retaliate for any attack, or even if it feels endangered, by closing the Strait of Hormuz, the conduit for Gulf oil exports crucial to the global economy, and hitting Israel and U.S. interests in the Middle East.

Tehran has refused to stop sensitive nuclear work such as uranium enrichment despite four rounds of U.N. sanctions and a slew of additional measures imposed by the United States and the European Union, which fear Tehran is seeking nuclear weapons.

The Islamic Republic says its efforts to produce nuclear fuel are solely for electricity generation.

IAEA-IRAN TALKS GO NOWHERE

The failure of two days of talks between Iran and senior International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) officials, who were refused access to a military site where they believe Iran tested explosives of use in nuclear weapons, dimmed the chances of Western powers agreeing to renew broader negotiations with Iran.

A warning from Iran's clerical supreme leader on Wednesday, hours after the Tehran talks concluded, that no obstacle would derail Iran's nuclear course added to tensions.

Gatilov suggested that Iran should be more cooperative but there is more room for diplomacy. He said Iran's discussions with Russia, China, the United States, Britain, France and Germany, frozen for a year, could still be revived.

"Iran and IAEA should boost their dialogue in order to rule out the ... possibility of the existence of military dimensions in the Iranian nuclear program. We hope that this dialogue will be continued," he said.

"I think we still have opportunity to continue diplomatic efforts, to renew the six-nation talks."

Russia, which built Iran's first nuclear power plant, has often stressed the need for talks and that too much coercive pressure on Iran is counterproductive, a stance that has prompted concerns Moscow has helped Tehran play for time.

Last week, Russia said global powers must be serious about proposing solutions Iran might accept, warning that Tehran's desire for compromise was waning as it moved closer to being technically capable of building atomic weapons.

[American Patriot]

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Betray-As.../dp/143918903X

Might I suggest....

[American Patriot]

Iran Leaders: The Coming is Upon Us – Israel Shall be Destroyed! (Watch the Video)

Written by Reza Kahlili on March 28th, 2011 Several months ago I was informed by my contacts in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that the Basij had started a project that had the approval of the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The purpose of the project was to inform Muslims across the globe of the immediate coming of the last Islamic messiah. The Iranian leaders, now more than ever, feel that all the stars are aligned for such event.


Ever since the Iranian Revolution of 1979, the Islamic rulers of Iran have declared themselves representatives of God on Earth, believing their mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the last messiah, the Shiites 12^th Imam Mahdi.


Their belief is based on the centuries old Hadith by Prophet Mohammad and his descendants, who have provided clear guidance as to the timing of The Coming.


According to the Hadith in the age of The Coming, a revolution takes place in Iran. This is a key sign indicating that the reappearance is near and serves as the initial preparation in the worldwide movement for The Coming of the last messiah. Based on this belief, the leaders of Iran see it as their duty to prepare the ground for The Coming. One of the most important events to securing the reappearance of the last Messiah, as called for in the Hadith, is the annihilation of Israel and conquering Beitol Moghadas (Jerusalem). They state with conviction that Islam will soon conquer the world and all infidels will be destroyed.


The pursuit of nuclear bombs by the radicals ruling Iran is directly connected to this belief, as war, chaos, and lawlessness must engulf the world to pave the way for Imam Mahdi’s reappearance.


This movie has been produced in Iran by an organization called “Conductors of The Coming” in collaboration with the Iranian president’s office and the Basij (Iranian paramilitary force). Also reports indicate that Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, President Ahmadinejad’s top adviser and chief of staff, was directly involved with this project. The movie was completed a few months ago and recently screened for the high clerics by the Iranian president’s office with one of its high ranking official analyzing it.


Mashaei reflects the Iranian leaders’ belief very clearly:
Therefore let us shout out loud that The Coming is soon and that evil should be fearful. We live with these thoughts every day and our lives are filled with The Coming of the last Imam. That human will reappear and fill the world with justice and establish his promised governance on earth. The very world has witnessed too much bloodshed of the innocent for others to build their palaces. The very world is filled with shouts for justice. The innocent and the oppressed are losing their lives to world powers. It is in this very world where the oppressors rule and this world that Allah will command the last Imam to appear and forever put an end to injustice. At that time the world will belong to the righteous.


Currently this movie is being distributed throughout the Basij and Revolutionary Guards’ bases. The producers are in the middle of translating it into Arabic with the purpose of mass distribution throughout the Middle East. Their intention is to incite further uprisings with the hopes of motivating Arabs to overthrow U.S. backed governments with the final goal of the annihilation of Israel and Allah’s governance of the world!


Also see:
PajamasMedia: (PJM Exclusive) Iran’s Supreme Leader Declared the Mythical Figure in End of Times
PajamasMedia: Exposure of Movie Predicting Shiite Messiah Causes Turmoil Within Iranian Regime
Pajamas Media:Iranian Rulers, Believing Pre-Messianic Destruction Is Imminent, Make Film To Prepare Muslims.
CBN-700 Club:Iranian Video Says Mahdi is ‘Near’
Newsmax:Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World
Frontpage Magazine:Iran’s End Times Documentary
The 700 club with Pat Robertson: Reza Kahlili’s revelation of the Iranian movie and the reaction by the Iranian regime.
Glen Beck – FOX: Iranian Regime Preparing for 12th Imam?
Interview with Reza Kahlili on the Iranian video promising the end of time.
Watch the video: The Coming is Upon Us:


http://atimetobetray.com/blog/iran-l...tch-the-video/

[American Patriot]

Nothing to see here, move along. There is nothing related to American National Security here at all....

Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World



Monday, 28 Mar 2011 01:17 PM
By Ken Timmerman


A feature-length documentary film, produced by a top adviser to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, claims that the cataclysmic events that will usher in an era of Muslim world domination are about to begin, triggered by actions launched by Iran and its Lebanese ally, Hezbollah.

Iran's Ahmadinejad repeatedly talks about the coming of the 12th imam, a Muslim messianic figure whose “reappearance” will make Islam victorious over the entire world.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

He begins every public speech — including his yearly address to the United Nations — with a prayer that his actions will “hasten the return” of the 12th imam.

Now former Revolutionary Guards officer Reza Kahlili, who defected to the West after spying on behalf of the CIA inside Iran for more than a decade, has obtained a bootlegged copy of a new film made by Ahmadinejad’s office that lays out the Iranian president’s scenario for how the end times will begin.

It won’t be pretty for Israel, the United States, or U.S. allies in the Middle East.

The feature-length documentary film produced under the direct supervision of Ahmadinejad’s top adviser and chief of staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, claims that the cataclysmic events that will trigger the return of the Mahdi are about to start.

It all begins with the death of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, revolts in Egypt and Yemen, and ends with Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah leading Muslim armies to conquer Jerusalem.

The film, called “The Coming Is Upon Us,” is now being shown at

Hassan Nasrallah

Revolutionary Guards and paramilitary Bassij Corps bases around Iran, and will soon be released in an Arabic-language edition for mass distribution in the Arab world.

“Their intention is to incite further uprisings with the hopes of motivating Arabs to overthrow U.S.-backed governments, with the final goal of the annihilation of Israel and Allah’s governance of the world,” Kahlili tells Newsmax.

The film uses classic Muslim texts to convince the faithful that this scenario of Muslim world government, led by Iran, was foretold in the Koran and the Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.

It might appear innocuous — like those Christian and Jewish end-times scholars who reach deep into the world of Biblical prophecy for clues as to the exact date of the second coming of Jesus — except that the Iranians are not telling the faithful to prepare their souls for salvation: they are telling them to gird up for the coming battle with the infidel.

Early on, the film identifies the trigger that will set off the torch of this Muslim end-times scenario. “Whoever guarantees the death of King Abdullah [of Saudi Arabia], I will guarantee the imminent reappearance of the Mahdi,” the film states, purporting to quote Muslim scripture.

“The Coming Is Upon Us” is not about prayer or redemption. It is about war.

To a backdrop of militarist pictures of Iranian leaders with crowds of Hezbollah fighters and driving music, the film claims that a nation “from the East” will rise up to prepare the way for the reappearance of the Mahdi.

That nation, of course, is Iran.

“This is their plan, and it’s coming right from the horse’s mouth,” Kahlili tells Newsmax. “They are claiming to have discovered all of these clues in Islamic scriptures, so this is not just a political plan, but a claim to absolute truth.”

Signs of the end times abound, the film states.

These include: great earthquakes, sedition, and the rise of evil world leaders (depicted are George W. Bush, President Obama, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, German Chancellor Merkel, among others).

Even worse: “Women will rid themselves of the Hijab,” the Islamic head covering many young Iranian women threw off during anti-government protests in 2009. “Adultery will become common. Men will dress like women. Men will content themselves to men and woman to woman.”

But the film goes beyond the standard condemnation of cultural depravity the Islamic Republic of Iran’s leaders commonly toss off when discussing the West.

It presents Islamic scripture as a treasure map leading to the end times, and claims to have the key to unlock its secrets.

Kahlili has made a 28-minute version of the film available on his blog, along with English subtitles.

The film claims that the Hadith “map” leading up to the reappearance of the Mahdi includes the following way-points:

• The United States and Western colonial powers will invade Iraq
• A revolution will take place in Yemen, and the “first soldiers” of the Mahdi will reach Mecca from Yemen
• The people of Egypt “will rise up against their ruler”
• Jews will re-establish a government in Palestine, and the Muslims will be “separated from one another and be disunited”
• King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia will die, ushering in a final period of unrest and conflict with Israel that will lead directly to the Mahdi’s return

The film is nothing short of a declaration of war, an Iranian version of Hitler’s “Mein Kampf,” which after all in German means “my struggle” or “my jihad.”

The key figure in this Iranian end-times scenario is a mythical descendent of the Prophet Muhammad named Seyed Khorasani, who will deliver the flag of Islam into the hands of the 12th imam in person.

He will be the leader of the “people of the East,” and will have “a strong army in order to be victorious in the intense wars to take place before the Coming.”

The film claims explicitly that this leader is none other than Ayatollah Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The film claims that Iran has become militarily so powerful that during a recent meeting with Israeli leaders, U.S. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, announced that “the option of a military confrontation [with Iran] is no longer possible.”

“The pursuit of nuclear bombs by the radicals ruling Iran is directly connected to this belief, as war, chaos, and lawlessness must engulf the world to pave the way for Imam Mahdi’s reappearance,” Kahlili says.

[American Patriot]

No, no, nothing at all to worry about. No National Security interests for the United States could be found in the previous posts....

but, oh well. Americans should continue on with "The Voice", "American Idol" or whatever other (idiotic) TV show has captured their limited attention span this week, or next.

Don't worry about anything. It's all being cared for in the background by our leaders.

We shouldn't worry, we should shut up and work. We should pull our troops home and put them to work painting rocks and cutting grass. We should go back to isolationism and ignore the rest of the world and "let them work out their problems themselves!"

Yup, that's the ticket.

[eversman]

They can't, so they'd be happy if someone else would take the risks and do the fighting and dying for them.

All this talk of war with Iran is US election-year bullshit, catering to the contingent of Israel-firsters and Arab Sheikdom Oil-firsters in both parties, because Iran already has the Nukes that Iran bought, and soon the clock will run out on stopping their ability to make their own.

Youre a simple minded fool. at BEST. You clearly do NOT understand Ahmedinejahd. Do you know what he did after 'graduating' college? or why he is a professor at Tehran University?? clearly you dont know the story. The pictures of his college days sure are interesting, especially the ones where he's holding a G3 and forcing blind-folded marine guards captured from the embassy, around. I guess you missed that memo. OR the memo about his time leading a hit team in europe. or about his time as interrogator and executioner at Evan prison in Tehran.

I guess you dont understand the relationship hezbollah has with America, and who created, directs, arms, trains, funds them. You need to do a little research into Imad Fayez Mugniyah. Coincidentally you seem to think the Israelis arent anyone special and there is no special relationship or common interest with them. When you note who Mugniyah is, finally, and figure out why he is important, pay special note to who killed him.

You are simply out of your depth. To think that iran should be left to its own devices to obtain ballistic missiles capable of reaching US shores, and acquiring nuclear weapons is stupid. theres no other word for it, and your viewpoint is reckless and homicidally negligent in the extreme. im not willing to bet tens of millions of US Lives on a hunch that iran will just play nice once they have those tools. Give a NATION of suicide bombers Nukes and ICBM's. clearly you have no real world experience in foreign affairs.

Ever been to sandbox Michael? ever interrogated a Hezbollah operative who was assisting Al Qaeda? Something else i want to make crystal clear to you: Where do you think the mid level planners and military council of Al Qaeda is living? has been since they fled Khandahar??? hint, they share a zipcode with A-jahd.

Youre a fool. ou are so naive to the reality of what iran is really doing, has done for30 years, you are incapable of seeing what needs to be done. thats the kindest thing i can say about you. you want to change our involvement in the mid east? drill for oil here and cut our dependance on theirs, and cut off their money stream. Every US President has kicked the can of dealing with iran down the road for two reasons: none of them ever though terrorism was a game changer, and no one ever thought iran would get a bomb. Both assumptions were wrong. Continuing the same failed policy is a stupid and foolish mistake from a hopelessly naive person's viewpoint.

Ev

[eversman]

I'll break it down real nice for you, Michael, since you are too intellectually lazy to go find the proper facts on your own. For 30 years, iran and the extremists who run the country have been targeting us and openly calling for war with us, and openly proclaiming they would kill us whenever they could. I present as exhibit A the hijacking of TWA flight 847. Mugniyah, on orders from IRGC did that hijacking and personally ran it. US Navy diver Robert Stetham was beaten to death, and countless others tortured aboard.

Lets talk about what happened to US Army Col Bill Buckley, Ret, CIA Station Chief for Beirut. Mugniyah abducted him, and personally tortured him to death. thats exhibit B

Lets not forget about the US Embassy bombing, the first real effective use of car bombs. Mugniyah masterminded and commanded that op, at the order of IRGC and Hezbollah. He also was commander and planner of the attack on the marine corps barracks and the french para's barracks. Those are exhibit C and D.

You're almost certainly sitting there making excuses about why those are irrelevant, to you. I dont care. there's more, thats just the first little bits of the long trail of hostilities, in the ongoing, undeclared, open war with iran.

More you say? yeah. lots more. fast forward to the 93. who do you think taugh al qaeda to use RPGs against helicopters? Hezbollah. thats who. Saif Al Adel and others trainied at the Shabatt Farms Hezbollah camp, and went to somalia to help fight Task Force Ranger. They took those skills and taught them to the habr gadir clan, run by Aidid. Thats right, aiding al qaeda. Doesnt end there. This is exhibit E.

Lets talk about the embassy bombings. How did those crews learn how to conduct Truck bombings? that isnt taught in most curricula and tim mcviegh found out the hard way the internet stuff is bunk. Some one taught em. Who? Hezbollah. On orders from IRGC and Irans Supreme Leader. Yeah, the bombings of our embassies in Africa were because Hezbollah made sure they knew how. And, they knew in advance what the targets were and who was conducting the op.

Did you know most of the hijackers on sept 11, 2001 made it to the US courtesy of fresh papers and documents provided just before they left iran for travel the US? IRGC supplied those documents.

Now, you stand there and tell me iran isnt a threat. you stand there and say they are OK to have a Nuclear weapon, and ICBMs, and its none of our business. Your !@#$%^&* right its our business. Pull your head out of the sand, and let the people who really understand foreign policy do what needs to be done. Sit down, Shut Up, and thank us for keeping you safe.

Ev

[American Patriot]

Michael...

you are just a Ron Paulian... nothing more. I suggest you stop being brainwashed by him and start thinking for yourself.

Let me explain... while the belief of a majority of the Founding Fathers certainly was "non-interventionism" - times have also most certainly changed.

Israel is not there because they built their country. They are there because the UN put them there, and as a member of the UN, it is up to each of those countries to protect and aid Israel to prevent the Islamic bozos from trying to destroy them.

Here's MY evidence.... look at the things Paul is saying. Listen to yourself. Now you are welcome to believe what you like, BUT YOU'RE WRONG.

Were the Founding Fathers Wrong about Foreign Affairs?

by Congressman Ron Paul, MD

Last week I appeared on a national television news show to discuss recent events in the Middle East. During the show I merely suggested that there are two sides to the dispute, and that the focus of American foreign policy should be the best interests of America — not Palestine or Israel. I argued that American interests are best served by not taking either side in this ancient and deadly conflict, as Washington and Jefferson counseled when they warned against entangling alliances. I argued against our crazy policy of giving hundred of billions of dollars in unconstitutional foreign aid and military weapons to both sides, which only intensifies the conflict and never buys peace. My point was simple: we should follow the Constitution and stay out of foreign wars.
I was immediately attacked for offering such heresy. We've reached the point where virtually everyone in Congress, the administration, and the media blindly accepts that America must become involved (financially and militarily) in every conflict around the globe. To even suggest otherwise in today's political climate is to be accused of "aiding terrorists." It's particularly ironic that so many conservatives in America, who normally adopt an "America first" position, cannot see the obvious harm that results from our being dragged time and time again into an intractable and endless Middle East war. The empty justification is always that America is the global superpower, and thus has no choice but to police the world.
The Founding Fathers saw it otherwise. Jefferson summed up the noninterventionist foreign policy position perfectly in his 1801 inaugural address: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." How many times have we all heard these wise words without taking them to heart? How many champion Jefferson and the Constitution, but conveniently ignore both when it comes to American foreign policy? Washington similarly urged that the US must "Act for ourselves and not for others," by forming an "American character wholly free of foreign attachments." Since so many on Capitol Hill apparently now believe Washington was wrong, they should at least have the intellectual honesty to admit it next time his name is being celebrated.
In fact, when I mentioned Washington the other guest on the show quickly repeated the tired cliche that "We don't live in George Washington's times." Yet if we accept this argument, what other principles from that era should we discard? Should we give up the First amendment because times have changed? How about the rest of the Bill of Rights? It's hypocritical and childish to dismiss certain founding principles simply because a convenient rationale is needed to justify foolishpolicies today. The principles enshrined in the Constitution do not change. If anything, today's more complex world cries out for the moral clarity provided by a noninterventionist foreign policy.
It's easy to dismiss the noninterventionist view as the quaint aspiration of men who lived in a less complicated world, but it's not so easy to demonstrate how our current policies serve any national interest at all. Perhaps an honest examination of the history of American interventionism in the 20th century, from Korea to Vietnam to Kosovo to the Middle East, would reveal that the Founding Fathers foresaw more than we think.

April 17, 2002

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

[American Patriot]

One more thing Michael...

Ev gave you some very specific issues that DO concern National Security.

it's sad you just don't see them and refuse to believe they have anything to do with National Security.

I guess your arguments have gone down in flames - because you don't HAVE one except to "return to the principles of the Founding Fathers". The truth is, while they BELIEVED in non-intervention, they did what was necessary. And for that matter it's not a matter intervention when the security of Israel is tied to the security of the entire Western Civilization against the Muslims. And tied to our own by default.

[MinutemanCO]

This is huge! The fact that Iran's leaders believe thatthe Mahdi is coming soon... Bigtime huge. It means, at least to me, that they will be willing to do just about anything to facilitate the Mahdi's arrival.

[eversman]

No, Michael, you do not understand the information i gave you. it went right over your head. As i said, you are clearly out of your depth, in over your head. Bury that head in the sand some more. Fortunately there are level headed common sense oriented Men like Rick, Ryan and I to take care of things for Naive Simpletons like you. You completely missed it. I guess no one taught you about Pearl Harbor and how isolationism worked out in that case, and ignoring the front in Europe too. That worked out awesome (sarcasm). And a very recent reminder was 9-11, but i realize you believe that was an inside job, not the work of an external threat so its no surprise that lesson was lost on you too. Go back to being the sheep that you are, and take care of the day to day stuff while the grown ups discuss important matters that are clearly beyond you.

Ev

[eversman]

Here it is in black and white: no entanglements means no forewarning. No forewarning means dead Americans at home. How many have to die before you f'ing figure that out? it isnt the entanglements, silly rabbit. Its the enemies who hate us because we are different. its the enemies who hate us because of demagogues like A-jahd who egg them on. its terrorists who are funded by regimes we prop up by doing business with them. thats not a foreign entanglement. its a national policy issue, where the side effects are National Security related. Let me ask you this, genuis: since you dont seem to address any national security issues, when iran gets the bomb under your plan of events, and when Iran wipes New York off the map, then what? whats your plan, then?

Gonna wait for Ron Paul to get on TV and say, Im sorry! My bad! i was wrong! lets ask them to be nice and maybe they wont do LA next. is that the plan?

When Al Qaeda reconstitutes itself because we didnt pay any attention to Afghanistan after leaving, and the taliban helps them hit America again, what will be your plan, then?

When Iran sees we are weak and not paying attention and Hezbollah acts, what are you gonna tell the families of all the dead Americans?

Answer: you wont tell them anything, your head will still be in the sand, leaving the mess to someone smarter, and not afraid to face up to reality. People like you, and your psychological make up are dangerous.

I just LOVE Americans who think that if we just took our toys and went home, that it'll all be ok, and everyone will start liking us. that if we just cover our ears and eyes and hum loudly enough, the evil deeds and bad men of the world will just go away. right. sure. It must be nice living in your dream world, Michael, the rest of us live in reality. I dont give a ratfuck if you risk your life, but your policies and stupidity put millions of others at risk. Thats unacceptable.

You're right Michael, you dont know me. And you're right Michael, i dont post often. I'm busy working in the national security field, keeping YOU safe from the threats you keep telling yourself dont exist.

Ev

[eversman]

And I said that if we had no entanglements and alliances with particular nations, the threats would be greatly reduced, because there would be no reason to attack us. If anybody did, we'd reduce their nations to radioactive rubble in minutes, problem solved. Eventually even the most stupid of them would either grow a brain or be dead. How can you with all your experiences miss making the connection with picking an 'Ally' meaning picking that 'Ally's' enemies?

With all your rabid vitriol, I guess you missed the points I made about making the price of attacks ON US so high that everybody learns not to bother trying it. Nobody attacks Switzerland, and nobody attacked us, until after we decided to fight everybody else's battles for them. I know Islam and other forces out there want to rule the World...But I also know that historically speaking, over-extended and debt-ridden superpowers collapse quickly under threats to their Hegemony.



If you think insulting me is going to help you make an intelligent case for your position, you are mistaken. If have have a point that you wish I'd understand, chest-thumping and flinging poo isn't working towards that goal. Take a deep breath, step back from this, and think. I don't have my Ego involved in these kinds of debates-how I wish I was proven wrong and others right! My life would be alot easier.

point number 1: you live in the world. ignoring rest of world and having no alliances makes you vulnerable, not safe. Thats why even the founding fathers had alliances. i guess you forgot that France was a big reason America got started.

point number 2: your wishful thinking about 'avoiding entanglements' making things all better is foolish. simply foolish. over 200 years of history proves it. that idea has come and gone.

point number 3: upping the ante with those that already do attack us should already be happening, regardless of how many or little alliances we have. duh. thats part of the problem, thats why this is a BIG problem NOW, not just because of oil, or terrorism but because we isolated ourselves from dealing with the problem. these are all effects, effects of failing to deal with problems when they are little problems. now ithis problem is a BIG problem.

point number 4: you fail to grasp that 'staying home and out of other peoples business', what ron paul espouses, caused this mess. We stayed out of iran's business for 30 years. This mess is the result of that flawed, naive policy.

ISOLATIONISM DOES NOT WORK. it makes problems WORSE. FAR worse.

Example: if you get a toothache, and ignore it, what happens? it gets worse, potentially much worse.

Example 2: if you have a problem with a bully, and you do nothing about it, it gets worse. until you deal with the bully.

Example 3: Criminals. If you let them rape and murder and keep letting them out on parole, they will keep raping and murdering. keep em in forever or kill em. fix the problem, instead of ignoring it.

Example 4: if you oil light in the car comes on, do you keep driving? let me know how that works out for you.

You think we should ignore the world, until that comes home to roost, then react heavy handidly. That is again, a poor choice lacking intelligence, and taking risks with other peoples' lives. i cant condone or support that.

You can bitch and piss and moan all you want about my 'rhetoric' and 'vitriol', i dont care. as long as you keep talking foreign affairs at a grade school understanding level, I will keep treating you like someone who espouses a childish, naive view of the world.

You want to ignore my posts? go ahead. Not like any wisdom will ever make it through your head anyway. You suffer from the "dont bother me with facts, my mind is made up!" syndrome. You think you have all the answers, until reality slaps you. Ron Paul means well, and i'm sure you do too. But, its kind of like someone who doesnt know anything about electrical work trying to wire his own house. wont be long before the fire department shows up. You are out of your depth.

Ev

[eversman]

I am laughing out loud. Right, France should not have helped us, that was their downfall. I'm sure it had nothing to do with mismanagement of anything at home.... right...

Lots of anti-semites on the board, i see. Thats a new development from when i was last here. Peterle, we can talk about broken resolutions all day long. Especially by countries against Israel. You anti-semites love the idea of hanging Israel out to dry. I hope that policy never comes to fruition. The idea of throwing away the only friend we have in the middle east is naive and foolish, but speaking knowledge to village idiots wasted breath.

Peterle and Michael can believe what they want. its a good thing you two, and those like you, are in the minority, and its an even better thing that men like Ron Paul will never be making those decisions.

-Ev

[American Patriot]

It's not "ANY" remark, Michael, it's your continued "Anti-Zionist" remarks, really.

But whatever. You don't get it.

And Peterle... I quote from Wikipedia myself on occasion, but only if I have read other material to substantiate what it says. Wikipedia as anyone on this can tell you is about as inaccurate as it gets when it comes to politics and foreign information.

[American Patriot]

Let see...

I am not Anti , i am not pro.

There is a difference.

I am living among Arabs,there was a time when they went agressive.
They said : "You must give me your...,you have to do this,do not do that."

More than once i went outside with my Mauser (ironically it is a made in Germany rifle),
I said to them : Drop the "You must give me your...,you have to do this,do not do that." thing or i'll put a bullet in your head right now.

The effect was amazing, they become friendly.

I could go around tonite killing Arabs,but this make me a criminal.

This to say : Preventive attacks are the same.

You have just made both my point and Eversman's points.

Don't let bullies get away with what they are doing.

[American Patriot]

Peterle, we're not dealing with rational debate here, they want war and they'll get what they want.

All I can say to them is that history will prove who is right, just as it always has.

If the "they" you're referring to is me and Eversman, I've already warned you about putting words in other people's mouths.

None of us WANTS war. We want to STOP a war from coming to our shores - just so you're clear on the subject. Keeping it in the Middle East is actually to our benefit. And it is certainly a National Security Interest of the US to do so.

[American Patriot]

I think the majority of us here on this site agree on a lot more than we disagree with.

Michael and I don't agree on Israel. But the two of us agree on several other subjects and we're arguing nuance on occasion.

But simply put none of have all the answers, and obviously none of us are willing to compromise his principles either.

I'd say we all win all the way around.

The fact we're debating this at all shows it's obvious that we believe something is going to happen. Each of us has our own beliefs as to what that is - or SHOULD be.

Basically though, it's out of our hands. While I know several folks here are involved in one way or the other with the military, with intelligence collection and assisting the administration "make policy" most policy decisions are WAY out of our hands, well above our pay grades and while we all argue fervently for our points to be hear, ultimately it is simply out of our hands.

As you can tell (Micheal specifically I address you now) my job is not, never has been and never will be that of a diplomat. My job is a warrior. Regardless of your work place, or mine - we're on the same side.

The rest of the folks here are as well are all on the same side.

I can't imagine ONE of you thinking "America is less than any other country" or "America is a mediocre place to live". Not one of you.

This thread, Iran the Next Battlefield is simply about Iran becoming the next place in the Middle East to "watch" and "watch closely".

That's all it is about, we're not here to solve the world's problems because quite frankly, even if we DO have the right answers and solutions, we're not in positions to make it happen. I'm not. I'm only in a position of providing information, intelligence and a learned opinion. Whatever the guys higher up decide is what is decided and I have no say afterward.

With the noted exception of Peterle and a couple others who visit here less frequently, we're all Americans on this site.

So.... we need to get back on topic. Providing information about what Iran is doing here and now, not what the Founding Fathers might have done, or thought, or how wrong we are in one aspect or another by not adhering precisely to some vague tenants that we perceive they might have had about the rest of the world.

After doing some quick research this morning I found that not ALL of the Founding Fathers were so absolute in their desires to keep "hands off" and those who acted as President's in fact did NOT keep "hands off" certain situations.

That has been my point all along.

Because someone did things a certain way in the 18th Century does not mean we have to follow precisely those concepts today. Of course on the bill of rights, I draw the line. Inalienable rights are not the same as the beliefs we should leave well enough alone when the situation clearly dictates that something OUGHT to be done.

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.... simple as that.

If America does NOTHING at all to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapons - and all out nuclear arms race will begin which will place America squarely in the middle of the sights of the kooks that live in Arab countries, those who follow radical Islam and the Russians will have ultimately won what they set out to do... take down America without firing a shot.

I guess if that's what Americans want, then they will get it eventually.

[American Patriot]

You and Eversman don't want war, but you clearly want intervention on Israel's behalf.....

NO! For the thousandth time, NO!

I want IRAN stopped from making a bomb. GET IT? For the US, NOT FOR ISRAEL. I've stated this several times. I've also stated several times that the BYPRODUCT of stopping Iran from getting the bomb will in the long run HELP Israel, but for the last fucking time, PAY ATTENTION.

Helping Israel is one thing. Helping us is another. Standing BY and watching IRAN get a nuke ENSURES the destruction of Israel and eventually the US.

Don't you get this? Apparently not.

Stopping a war by starting one, truly Orwellian. And as long as it stays 'over there' and fought by jihadis and our volunteer military, who cares? I certainly don't care if the Mohammadans get trounced.

Starting a war? Michael, we're AT war with those fucks. Islam declared war on us a LONG time ago.

I say we reimpose the draft, though. No partying while others do the fighting for other nation's interests...Then we'll see how much of a minority i'm in.

Well, if there was ever a more sophomoric argument (lathered in sarcasm) I don't think I've heard one.