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Thread: bin Laden is DEAD

  1. #241
    Super Moderator and PHILanthropist Extraordinaire Phil Fiord's Avatar
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    I have a friend who legally moved here from Pakistan in 1999, when he was 21. He is a citizen of the US and has a licensed concealed carry permit and understands the opportunity it is to be here and he loves it. Note also, he speaks excellent English, if with the slightest accent.

    I talked with him today about this matter. He tells me there is not a single country more corrupt than Pakistan at all levels of gov and mil. He is certain, in his view, that Pakistan knew OBL was there and let it be because of the billions they received annually from the US.

    He also said it is likely the most terrorist infested country, as Pakistan, he says, turns a blind eye due to the money they bring in and often times bribe with.

    He further elaborated on Kashmir. He has been there. He said its a place with a local nickname which he spoke in that language for me, but said it roughly translates to "land where you disappear" or similar. It is apparently easy to pay a random killer 10k to murder someone and there are people who walk the streets carrying long guns over the shoulder like some might carry a backpack.

    In short, he is glad to be here. I am glad to know him.

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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Companion Threads:



    Osama Bin Laden Raid: Pakistan Hints China Wants a Peek at Secret Helicopter



    Photographs taken after a Navy SEAL team raided Osama bin Laden?s compound in Pakistan show the wreckage of one helicopter that clipped a rotor on a compound wall, was abandoned and destroyed. (European PressPhoto Agency)



    By MATTHEW COLE, JIM SCIUTTO (@jimsciuttoABC) , LEE FERRAN and BRIAN ROSS (@brianross)
    May 10, 2011

    Pakistani officials said today they're interested in studying the remains of the U.S.'s secret stealth-modified helicopter abandoned during the Navy SEAL raid of Osama bin Laden's compound, and suggest the Chinese are as well.

    The U.S. has already asked the Pakistanis for the helicopter wreckage back, but one Pakistani official told ABC News the Chinese were also "very interested" in seeing the remains. Another official said, "We might let them [the Chinese] take a look."

    A U.S. official said he did not know if the Pakistanis had offered a peak to the Chinese, but said he would be "shocked" if the Chinese hadn't already been given access to the damaged aircraft.

    The chopper, which aviation experts believe to be a highly classified modified version of a Blackhawk helicopter, clipped a wall during the operation that took down the al Qaeda leader, the White House said. The U.S. Navy SEALs that rode in on the bird attempted to destroy it after abandoning it on the ground, but a significant portion of the tail section survived the explosion. In the days after the raid, the tail section and other pieces of debris -- including a mysterious cloth-like covering that the local children found entertaining to play with -- were photographed being hauled away from the crash site by tractor.

    Aviation experts said the unusual configuration of the rear rotor, the curious hub-cap like housing around it and the general shape of the bird are all clues the helicopter was highly modified to not only be quiet, but to have as small a radar signature as possible.



    European PressPhoto Agency
    Photographs taken after a Navy SEAL team... View Full Size



    Photographs taken after a Navy SEAL team raided Osama bin Laden?s compound in Pakistan show the wreckage of one helicopter that clipped a rotor on a compound wall, was abandoned and destroyed.
    European PressPhoto Agency




    READ: Top Secret Stealth Helicopter Program Revealed in Osama Bin Laden Raid, Experts Say

    The helicopter's remains have apparently become another chip in a tense, high-stakes game of diplomacy between the U.S. and Pakistan following the U.S.'s unilateral military raid of bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, more than a week ago. The potential technological advancements gleaned from the bird could be a "much appreciated gift" to the Chinese, according to former White House counterterrorism advisor and ABC News consultant Richard Clarke.

    "Because Pakistan gets access to Chinese missile technology and other advanced systems, Islamabad is always looking for ways to give China something in return," Clarke said.

    The Chinese and Pakistani governments are known to have a close relationship. Last month Punjab Chief Minister Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif concluded a trip to Beijing, afterwards telling Pakistan's local press that China was Pakistan's "best friend."

    Dan Goure, a former Department of Defense official and vice president of the Lexington Institute, said last week the stealth chopper likely provided the SEALs an invaluable advantage in the moments before the shooting started.

    "This is a first," he said. "You wouldn't know that it was coming right at you. And that's what's important, because these are coming in fast and low, and if they aren't sounding like they're coming right at you, you might not even react until it's too late... That was clearly part of the success."

    Neighbors of bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan, told ABC News they didn't hear the helicopters the night of the raid until they were overhead.

    Officials at the U.S. Department of Defense declined to comment for this report, and a senior Pentagon official told ABC News last week the Department would "absolutely not" discuss anything relating to the downed chopper. Several Chinese government officials in the U.S. and in China were not available for comment.

    U.S. officials have not officially disclosed any details on the helicopter, but President Obama said it was a "$60 million helicopter," according to a report by The Washington Post. While the price tag on normal Blackhawks varies depending the type, none cost more than $20 million according to the latest Department of Defense procurement report.

    China's Murky History With U.S. Stealth Technology

    If the Chinese are allowed to see the wreckage, it may not be the first time the Chinese military was given an opportunity to benefit technologically from America's misfortune. In 1999 an American stealth F-117 Nighthawk bomber was shot down in Serbia, the wreckage of which was reportedly passed along to the Chinese.

    More than a decade later, in January of this year, China's first stealth fighter, the J-20, took a test flight that caught international attention and sparked a debate over whether China had developed the stealth-capabilities based on what they learned from the downed Nighthawk. Balkan military officials told The Associated Press the Chinese likely based their designs on the American plane, but Chinese officials denied the allegation in their state-run newspaper, The Global Times.

    Regardless of its origins, the J-20 could serve as the first major challenge to American air superiority in decades. In an analysis published last week, the conservative think tank The Jamestown Foundation concluded the J-20 was capable of rivaling America's best air-to-air fighter, the F-22, in everything from speed to stealth and lethality.

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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Companion Thread:



    Chinese view of bin laden's death

    • Source: Global Times


    A baby holds a Osama bin Laden toy in Hangzhou, Zhejiang Province. Photo: CFP

    By Shen Weihuang

    When US President Barack Obama announced to the world that the most wanted terrorist in modern history has been killed, public opinion was naturally split along the geopolitical divide with most Westerners celebrating, while many in the Middle East mourned.

    In China, however, the public's reaction, as measured by a number of unscientific online polls, was split amid concern that Bin Laden's demise might refocus dormant tensions between the US and China.

    Almost 60 percent of the 500,000 people who took an online survey conducted by Hong Kong based Phoenix television, agreed with the statement that Bin Laden's death was a sad event because "he was an anti-US warrior."

    Barely 18 percent clicked the statement to indicate they were happy that "the head of terrorism" had been killed, while almost 10 percent of respondents selected the option that indicated they didn't care.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese government didn't waffle in its support for the killing of Bin Laden. After his death the Chinese Foreign Ministry welcomed the news, saying his death was an "important event" and that terrorists are a public enemy that China opposes terrorism in all its forms.

    Another online survey posted on the Global Times' Chinese website asked participants whether they thought the US would get tougher on China now that Bin Laden is out of the picture. More than 75 percent of the 17,000 respondents clicked "yes."

    Other online portals carried irreverent, even virulent discussions relating to Bin Laden's death.

    A thread on mop.com, one of China's leading online bulletin boards, suggested Bin Laden's death should be revenged by "attacking the most vulnerable parts of the US."

    One writer suggested that Bin Laden had been a helpful foil to a number of US presidents. "Thirty years ago, he helped President Reagan take down the Soviet Union, 10 years ago, he helped President Bush begin his military campaign in the Middle East, and now his sacrifice will surely help President Obama win re-election."

    While many experts discount the veracity of online surveys to provide a true measure of public opinion, they also agree that the responses are worrisome.

    "Many of the opinions expressed online are irrational and ill-informed. People need to calm down and reflect on what they are saying," said Shen Dingli, professor of international relations from Fudan University in Shanghai.

    Shen has no doubt that the world is now a better, safer place without Bin Laden. "Osama bin Laden was a terrorist, and his death will not only save many people's lives, it will also bring comfort to the families of those who died. His death is good for humanity," he said.

    Another scholar, Xu Zidong, from Hong Kong's Lingnan University, believes the decade-old hunt for the terrorist mastermind distracted the US from engaging China on a number of contentious issues.

    "Before the 911 attack, the US saw China as its biggest threat. Relations between the two countries were very tense after George W. Bush took the office in January 2001," Xu said.

    In February that year, the US Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, upped the pressure on China by ordering a re-evaluation of Sino-US military communications strategy. A month later, Bush ordered all departments to re-evaluate their China strategy.

    Two months later a US navy aircraft collided with a Chinese military fighter jet near Hainan Island, killing the Chinese pilot Wang Wei. The US aircraft made an emergency landing on Hainan and its crew of 24 were detained until the US delivered a written account of the incident to the Chinese government.

    Three weeks after the military jet incident, Bush announced a $4.5-billion weapons sale to Taiwan, the largest since the president's father sold 150 F-16 fighter jets to the island almost decade earlier.

    President Bush added fuel to the fire and caused an uproar in China when he told American reporters that the US would take all necessary means to protect Taiwan.

    "The Taiwan question has always been the most contentious issue between the US and China and Bush's remarks were intolerable. To be honest, we believed the situation was going to continue to escalate," said Zhu Feng, professor of International Relations at Peking University.

    In September of that year, New York's World Trade Center buildings were attacked and US attention become firmly fixed on to the Middle East.

    "After 911, I had a sense of relief that the pressure between China and the US would ease off, but the discontent and anger among Chinese isn't easily forgotten," Xu said.

    Over the past decade, China and the US have cooperated on a number of fronts to combat terrorism. Two weeks after 911 officials from both countries met in Washington to develop an anti-terrorism framework.

    China also agreed to provide greater political and diplomatic support to the US in the United Nations after 911, noted an essay published by the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations. The authors also suggest China played a role in improving ties between the US and Pakistan.

    As well, China helped hem in Al-Qeada militants by closing its border with Afghanistan and allowed an American aircraft carrier to refuel and re-supply in Hong Kong.

    In response to China's moves, the US listed the "East Turkistan Islamic Movement" as a terrorist organization in 2002, and killed it's founder, Hasan Mahsum, during a joint military operation with Pakistan in 2003.

    Relations were strained again in 2004 after the US released members of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement who were being held as prisoners in Guantanamo Bay and refused to hand them over to China.

    Many political scientists believe that China and the US have too much at stake on too many other fronts to allow their country's hawks to force a serious deterioration of relations. The two countries' economies are all but dependent on bilateral trade, financing and investment. The countries have also cooperated on international legal issues such money laundering, human trafficking and piracy.

    "The death of Bin Laden won't have much influence on current Sino-US relations. The war on terrorism is far from over and the US will be on high alert for a terrorist attack for the next five to 10 years," said Sun Zhe, director of the center for Sino-US relations at Tsinghua University.

    "It's unlikely the US will continue to give China a hard time and the political situation is totally different than it was in 2001. The US seems to have realized that pressure tactics can only harm relations," he added.

    And indeed relations continue to move apace as witnessed by the Third Sino-US Strategic and Economic Dialogue, which ended in the Washington yesterday. At the meeting Vice Premier Wang Qishan perhaps offered a hopeful insight into future bilateral relations when he said "China and the US have far more shared interests than differences."

    "So the voice from the Internet is just a flash in the pan, the greater trend can't be stopped, no one wants to see giants like China and the US in conflict," said professor Shen.

    Sino-US relations before and after Bin Laden

    February 2001, US orders a re-evaluation of US-Sino military communications strategy.

    March 2001 US orders all departments to re-evaluate their China strategy.

    April 2001 A US navy aircraft collides with a Chinese military fighter jet near Hainan Island, killing the Chinese pilot.

    April 2001 US sells $4.5-billion in weapon to Taiwan.

    September 11, 2001 Bin Laden masterminds the attack on the World Trade Center.

    2001-03

    China plays a role in improving ties between the US and Pakistan, closes border with Afghanistan, gives more support to US in the UN.

    US lists the "East Turkistan Islamic Movement" as a terrorist organization and kills its founder in Pakistan.

    2003- 11 China and US reach agreements to prevent terrorisms, piracy, human traffic.

    May 10, 2011 The Sino-US Strategic and Economic Dialogue concludes in Washington.

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  4. #244
    Senior Member samizdat's Avatar
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    All the press leakings seem to prop up bama on the pedestol. I wunder how long the leaks of ubl-al-quadai ties to "other" terrorist states will be squashed.

    WASHINGTON – Two U.S. officials say pornography was among the items seized when U.S. Navy SEALs raided the Pakistani hideout of Osama bin Laden almost two weeks ago.
    The officials say it was unclear who the material belonged to, or whether Bin Laden viewed it. Bin Laden's son and two other adult male couriers lived at the compound, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.
    The pornography was confiscated in addition to a handwritten journal, five computers, ten hard drives and 110 thumb drives seized at the site, which are now being analyzed by a CIA-led team.
    The journal's contents include Bin Laden's musings over how to kill U.S. President Barack Obama, US officials say. Bin Laden concluded he was too well protected.

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    Creepy Ass Cracka & Site Owner Ryan Ruck's Avatar
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Some details on the raid that got Osama...

    Sources: Raiders Knew Mission A One-Shot Deal
    May 17, 2011

    Those who planned the secret mission to get Osama bin Laden in Pakistan knew it was a one-shot deal, and it nearly went terribly wrong.

    The U.S. deliberately hid the operation from Pakistan, and predicted that national outrage over the breach of Pakistani sovereignty would make it impossible to try again if the raid on bin Laden’s suspected redoubt came up dry.

    Once the raiders reached their target, things started to go awry almost immediately, officials briefed on the operation said.

    Adding exclusive new details to the account of the assault on bin Laden’s hideout, officials described just how the SEAL raiders loudly ditched a foundering helicopter right outside bin Laden’s door, ruining the plan for a surprise assault. That forced them to abandon plans to run a squeeze play on bin Laden — simultaneously entering the house stealthily from the roof and the ground floor.

    Instead, they busted into the ground floor and began a floor-by-floor storming of the house, working up to the top level where they had assumed bin Laden — if he was in the house — would be.

    They were right.

    The raiders came face-to-face with bin Laden in a hallway outside his bedroom, and three of the Americans stormed in after him, U.S. officials briefed on the operation told The Associated Press. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to describe a classified operation.

    U.S. officials believe Pakistani intelligence continues to support militants who attack U.S. troops in Afghanistan, and actively undermine U.S. intelligence operations to go after al-Qaida inside Pakistan. The level of distrust is such that keeping Pakistan in the dark was a major factor in planning the raid, and led to using the high-tech but sometimes unpredictable helicopter technology that nearly unhinged the mission.

    Pakistan’s government has since condemned the action, and threatened to open fire if U.S. forces enter again.

    On Monday, the two partners attempted to patch up relations, agreeing to pursue high-value targets jointly.

    The decision to launch on that particular moonless night in May came largely because too many American officials had been briefed on the plan. U.S. officials feared if it leaked to the press, bin Laden would disappear for another decade.

    U.S. special operations forces have made approximately four forays into Pakistani territory since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, though this one, some 90 miles inside Pakistan, was unlike any other, the officials say.

    The job was given to a SEAL Team 6 unit, just back from Afghanistan, one official said. This elite branch of SEALs had been hunting bin Laden in eastern Afghanistan since 2001.

    Five aircraft flew from Jalalabad, Afghanistan, with three school-bus-size Chinook helicopters landing in a deserted area roughly two-thirds of the way to bin Laden’s compound in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, two of the officials explained.

    Aboard two Black Hawk helicopters were 23 SEALs, an interpreter and a tracking dog named Cairo. Nineteen SEALs would enter the compound, and three of them would find bin Laden, one official said, providing the exact numbers for the first time.

    Aboard the Chinooks were two dozen more SEALs, as backup.

    The Black Hawks were specially engineered to muffle the tail rotor and engine sound, two officials said. The added weight of the stealth technology meant cargo was calculated to the ounce, with weather factored in. The night of the mission, it was hotter than expected.

    The Black Hawks were to drop the SEALs and depart in less than two minutes, in hopes locals would assume they were Pakistani aircraft visiting the nearby military academy.

    One Black Hawk was to hover above the compound, with SEALs sliding down ropes into the open courtyard.

    The second was to hover above the roof to drop SEALs there, then land more SEALs outside — plus an interpreter and the dog, who would track anyone who tried to escape and to alert SEALs to any approaching Pakistani security forces.

    If troops appeared, the plan was to hunker down in the compound, avoiding armed confrontation with the Pakistanis while officials in Washington negotiated their passage out.

    The two SEAL teams inside would work toward each other, in a simultaneous attack from above and below, their weapons silenced, guaranteeing surprise, one of the officials said. They would have stormed the building in a matter of minutes, as they’d done time and again in two training models of the compound.

    The plan unraveled as the first helicopter tried to hover over the compound. The Black Hawk skittered around uncontrollably in the heat-thinned air, forcing the pilot to land. As he did, the tail and rotor got caught on one of the compound’s 12-foot walls. The pilot quickly buried the aircraft’s nose in the dirt to keep it from tipping over, and the SEALs clambered out into an outer courtyard.

    The other aircraft did not even attempt hovering, landing its SEALs outside the compound.

    Now, the raiders were outside, and they’d lost the element of surprise.

    They had trained for this, and started blowing their way in with explosives, through walls and doors, working their way up the three-level house from the bottom.

    They had to blow their way through barriers at each stair landing, firing back, as one of the men in the house fired at them.

    They shot three men as well as one woman, whom U.S. officials have said lunged at the SEALs.

    Small knots of children were on every level, including the balcony of bin Laden’s room.

    As three of the SEALs reached the top of the steps on the third floor, they saw bin Laden standing at the end of the hall. The Americans recognized him instantly, the officials said.

    Bin Laden also saw them, dimly outlined in the dark house, and ducked into his room.

    The three SEALs assumed he was going for a weapon, and one by one they rushed after him through the door, one official described.

    Two women were in front of bin Laden, yelling and trying to protect him, two officials said. The first SEAL grabbed the two women and shoved them away, fearing they might be wearing suicide bomb vests, they said.

    The SEAL behind him opened fire at bin Laden, putting one bullet in his chest, and one in his head.

    It was over in a matter of seconds.

    Back at the White House Situation Room, word was relayed that bin Laden had been found, signaled by the code word “Geronimo.” That was not bin Laden’s code name, but rather a representation of the letter “G.” Each step of the mission was labeled alphabetically, and “Geronimo” meant that the raiders had reached step “G,” the killing or capture of bin Laden, two officials said.

    As the SEALs began photographing the body for identification, the raiders found an AK-47 rifle and a Russian-made Makarov pistol on a shelf by the door they’d just run through. Bin Laden hadn’t touched them.

    They were among a handful of weapons that were removed to be inventoried.

    It took approximately 15 minutes to reach bin Laden, one official said. The next 23 or so were spent blowing up the broken chopper, after rounding up nine women and 18 children to get them out of range of the blast.

    One of the waiting Chinooks flew in to pick up bin Laden’s body, the raiders from the broken aircraft and the weapons, documents and other materials seized at the site.

    The helicopters flew back to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, and the body was flown to a waiting Navy ship for bin Laden’s burial at sea, ensuring no shrine would spring up around his grave.

    When the SEAL team met President Obama, he did not ask who shot bin Laden. He simply thanked each member of the team, two officials said.

    In a few weeks, the team that killed bin Laden will go back to training, and in a couple months, back to work overseas.

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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    I still have issues with this Administration handling of OBL's death and not releasing hard evidence. The pictures leaked were faked and then his body quickly dumped at sea.

    In contrast Gaddafi's pictures were everywhere and thousands of photos were taken afterward with everyone having access.

    This story below seems kind of suspect because SEALs' are usually very tight lipped about their missions.



    Companion Thread:



    Correcting the ‘fairy tale’: A SEAL’s account of how Osama bin Laden really died



    Related Content


    View GalleryA policeman walks in front of the compound where al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden …


    FILE - This April 1998 file photo shows former al Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in …


    Forget whatever you think you know about the night Osama bin Laden was killed. According to a former Navy SEAL who claims to have the inside track, the mangled tales told of that historic night have only now been corrected.

    “It became obvious in the weeks evolving after the mission that the story that was getting put out there was not only untrue, but it was a really ugly farce of what did happen,” said Chuck Pfarrer, author of Seal Target Geronimo: The Inside Story of the Mission to Kill Osama Bin Laden.

    In an extensive interview with The Daily Caller, Pfarrer gave a detailed account of why he believes the record needed to be corrected, and why he set out to share the personal stories of the warriors who penetrated bin Laden’s long-secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

    In August the New Yorker delivered a riveting blow-by-blow of the SEALs’ May 1, 2011 raid on bin Laden’s hideaway. In that account, later reported to lack contributions from the SEALs involved, readers are taken through a mission that began with a top-secret helicopter crashing and led to a bottom-up assault of the Abbottabad compound.

    Freelancer Nicholas Schmidle wrote that the SEALs had shot and blasted their way up floor-by-floor, finally cornering the bewildered Al-Qaida leader:
    “The Al Qaeda chief, who was wearing a tan shalwar kameez and a prayer cap on his head, froze; he was unarmed. ‘There was never any question of detaining or capturing him—it wasn’t a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,’ the special-operations officer told me. (The Administration maintains that had bin Laden immediately surrendered he could have been taken alive.) Nine years, seven months, and twenty days after September 11th, an American was a trigger pull from ending bin Laden’s life. The first round, a 5.56-mm. bullet, struck bin Laden in the chest. As he fell backward, the SEAL fired a second round into his head, just above his left eye.”
    Chuck Pfarrer rejects almost all of that story.

    “The version of the 45-minute firefight, and the ground-up assault, and the cold-blooded murder on the third floor — that wasn’t the mission,” Pfarrer told TheDC.

    “I had to try and figure out, well, look: Why is this story not what I’m hearing? Why is it so off and how is it so off?” he recounted. “One of the things I sort of determined was, OK, somebody was told ‘one of the insertion helicopters crashed.’ OK, well that got muddled to ‘a helicopter crashed on insertion.’”

    The helicopters, called “Stealth Hawks,” are inconspicuous machines concealing cutting-edge technology. They entered the compound as planned, with “Razor 1″ disembarking its team of SEALs on the roof of the compound — not on the ground level. There was no crash landing. That wouldn’t occur until after bin Laden was dead.

    Meanwhile, “Razor 2″ took up a hovering position so that its on-board snipers, some of whom had also participated in the sea rescue of Maersk Alabama captain Richard Phillips, had a clear view of anyone fleeing the compound.

    The SEALs then dropped down from the roof, immediately penetrated the third floor, and hastily encountered bin Laden in his room. He was not standing still.

    “He dived across the king-size bed to get at the AKSU rifle he kept by the headboard,” wrote Pfarrer in his book. It was at that moment, a mere 90 seconds after the SEALs first set foot on the roof, that two American bullets shattered bin Laden’s chest and head, killing a man who sought violence to the very end.

    President Obama stepped up to a podium in the East Room of the White House that night to announce bin Laden’s death. That rapid announcement, explained Pfarrer, posed a major threat to U.S. national security.

    “There was a choice that night,” Pfarrer told TheDC. “There was a choice to keep the mission secret.” America, Pfarrer explained, could have left things alone for “weeks or months … even though there was evidence left on the ground there … and use the intelligence and finish off al-Qaida.”

    But Obama’s announcement, he said, “rendered moot all of the intelligence that was gathered from the nexus of al-Qaida. The computer drives, the hard drives, the videocasettes, the CDs, the thumb drives, everything. Before that could even be looked through, the political decision was made to take credit for the operation.”

    And in the days that followed, as politicians sought to thrust their identities into the details of the bin Laden kill, the tale began to grow out of control, said Pfarrer.

    “The president made a statement, and as far as that goes, that was fine, that was the mission statement,” he explained. “But, soon after … politicians began leaking information from every orifice. And it was like a game of Chinese telephone. These guys didn’t know what they were talking about. Very few of them had even seen the video feed.”

    Pfarrer suggests that much of the misinformation was likely born out of operational ignorance, even among those sitting in the White House.

    “One of the things that happened was that there were only a handful of people who know about this mission,” he said. “On the civilian side, there were only a handful of people in the situation room who were watching the drone feed. They were looking at the roof of a building taken from a rotating aircraft at 35,000 feet.”

    “None of those guys, not a single one of them, had a background in special operations, with the exception of General Webb who was sitting there running a laptop,” Pfarrer went on. “No one knew or could even imagine what was going on inside the building. They didn’t know.”

    “There was an alternative feed going to CIA headquarters where Leon Panetta sat there with the communications brevity codes [a guide sheet for the mission's radio lingo] in his lap and a SEAL off-screen by his side to be able to tell him what was going on,” he said. “But these guys, none of them, really knew what they were looking at.”

    As the media raised more questions, officials gave more answers.

    Whether or not bin Laden resisted ultimately developed into a barrage of murky official and unofficial explanations in the days following. And statements from as high as then-CIA Director Leon Panetta offered confirmation that the endeavor was a “kill mission.”

    Pfarrer dismisses that assertion.

    “An order to go in and murder someone in their house is not a lawful order,” explained Pfarrer, who maintains that bin Laden would have been captured had he surrendered. “Unlike the Germans in World War II, if you’re a petty officer, a chief petty officer, a naval officer, and you’re giving an order to murder somebody, that’s an unlawful order.”

    Pfarrer also suggests some of the emerging claims were simply self-aggrandizing “fairy tales.”

    “The story they tried to tell — it’s preposterous. And the CIA tried to jump in. About mid-June the CIA tried to jump into the car and drive the victory lap. There’s this whole stuff about the CIA guy joining the operation, the gallant interpreter — he couldn’t even fast rope!” exclaimed Pfarrer, referring to a technique for descending from an airborne helicopter.

    “There’s this fairy tale about him walking out of the compound during the operation to tell crowds of Pakistanis to go home and everything’s OK.”

    Pfarrer tried to put this in perspective: “Do you mean that during the middle of this military operation at night, with hovering helicopters over this odd house in this neighborhood, that people came out of their houses to ask what’s going on, instead of [remaining] huddled in their basement?”

    “And I think that there were so many of these leaks that were incorrect, the administration couldn’t walk them all back,” Pfarrer explained. “And so, in the middle of May, they froze everything.”

    It was that freeze-out that left Chuck Pfarrer with nowhere to turn for the real story but the SEALs themselves.

    Seal Target Geronimo delivers an account of the night Osama bin Laden died with a level of detail unlike anything previously reported. Pfarrer bills the story as “absolutely factual.”

    “That’s the other thing. I’m prepared for the White House to say, you know, ‘this is full of inaccuracies,’ et cetera,” offered Pfarrer. He told TheDC that in order to protect American interests, his book is “full of names that are made up, and it is full of bases that are not quite where they really should be.”

    “But the timeline of my events,” he cautions, “and the manner in which it happened is 100 percent accurate. And they’ll know that.”

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    "Your grandchildren will live under communism."
    “You Americans are so gullible.
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    like overripe fruit into our hands."



  7. #247
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    I don't believe any of them any more.

    Especially SEALs leaking stories.

    One aspect I found suspect was that OBL didn't put up a fight.

    If the SEALs fought their way upstairs to OBL's room, OBL would have had time to get a gun.

    Dropping on the roof, he may, or may not.

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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    I don't actually CARE how he died. lol

    He's dead. Good riddance!
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    The one picture is directly from the movie, Battle Los Angelos. I'm not sure where you're going with this. If you watch the movie, you can screen cap that exact shot.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    And we discussed this MONTHS AGO- same picture.
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Well, he's not making any more videos.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt


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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    He didn't. You are suspicious.... lol
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Before it disappears from the web...

    http://news.yahoo.com/seal-book-raises-questions-bin-ladens-death-043820320.html

    SEAL book raises questions about bin Laden's death
    WASHINGTON (AP) — A firsthand account of the Navy SEAL raid that killed Osama bin Laden contradicts previous accounts by administration officials, raising questions as to whether the terror mastermind presented a clear threat when SEALs first fired upon him.

    Bin Laden apparently was hit in the head when he looked out of his bedroom door into the top-floor hallway of his compound as SEALs rushed up a narrow stairwell in his direction, according to former Navy SEAL Matt Bissonnette, writing under the pseudonym Mark Owen in "No Easy Day." The book is to be published next week by Penguin Group (USA)'s Dutton imprint.

    Bissonnette says he was directly behind a "point man" going up the stairs in the pitch black hallway. "Less than five steps" from top of the stairs, he heard "suppressed" gunfire: "BOP. BOP." The point man had seen a "man peeking out of the door" on the right side of the hallway.

    The author writes that bin Laden ducked back into his bedroom and the SEALs followed, only to find the terrorist crumpled on the floor in a pool of blood with a hole visible on the right side of his head and two women wailing over his body.

    Bissonnette says the point man pulled the two women out of the way and shoved them into a corner and he and the other SEALs trained their guns' laser sites on bin Laden's still-twitching body, shooting him several times until he lay motionless. The SEALs later found two weapons stored by the doorway, untouched, the author said.

    In the account related by administration officials after the raid in Pakistan, the SEALs shot bin Laden only after he ducked back into the bedroom because they assumed he might be reaching for a weapon.

    White House spokesman Tommy Vietor would not comment on the apparent contradiction late Tuesday. But he said in an email, "As President Obama said on the night that justice was brought to Osama bin Laden, 'We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country.'"

    "No Easy Day" was due out Sept. 11, but Dutton announced the book would be available a week early, Sept. 4, because of a surge of orders due to advance publicity that drove the book to the top of the Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble.com best-seller lists.

    The Associated Press purchased a copy of the book Tuesday.

    The account is sure to again raise questions as to whether the raid was intended to capture or simply to kill bin Laden. Bissonette writes that during a pre-raid briefing, a lawyer from "either" the White House or Defense Department told them that they were not on an assassination mission. According to Bissonnette, the lawyer said that if bin Laden was "naked with his hands up," they should not "engage" him. If bin Laden did not pose a threat, they should "detain him."

    In another possibly uncomfortable revelation for U.S. officials who say bin Laden's body was treated with dignity before being given a full Muslim burial at sea, the author reveals that in the cramped helicopter flight out of the compound, one of the SEALs called "Walt" — one of the pseudonyms the author used for his fellow SEALs — was sitting on bin Laden's chest as the body lay at the author's feet in the middle of the cabin, for the short flight to a refueling stop inside Pakistan where a third helicopter was waiting.

    This is common practice, as troops sometimes must sit on their own war dead in packed helicopters. Space was cramped because one of the helicopters had crashed in the initial assault, leaving little space for the roughly two dozen commandos in the two aircraft that remained. When the commandos reached the third aircraft, bin Laden's body was moved to it.

    Bissonnette writes disparagingly that none of the SEALs were fans of President Barack Obama and knew that his administration would take credit for ordering the May 2011 raid. One of the SEALs said after the mission that they had just gotten Obama re-elected by carrying out the raid.

    But he says they respected him as commander in chief and for giving the operation the go-ahead.
    Bissonnette writes less flatteringly of meeting Vice President Joe Biden along with Obama at the headquarters of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment after the raid. He says Biden told "lame jokes" no one understood, reminding him of "someone's drunken uncle at Christmas dinner."

    Beyond such embarrassing observations, U.S. officials fear the book may include classified information, as it did not undergo the formal review required by the Pentagon for works published by former or current Defense Department employees.

    Officials from the Pentagon and the CIA, which commanded the mission, are examining the manuscript for possible disclosure of classified information and could take legal action against the author.

    In a statement provided to The Associated Press, the author says he did "not disclose confidential or sensitive information that would compromise national security in any way."

    Bissonnette's real name was first revealed by Fox News and confirmed to The Associated Press.

    Jihadists on al-Qaida websites have posted purported photos of the author, calling for his murder.

    ___
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    I think I will buy a copy.

    After all, I have my doubts that the SEALS will leak anything classified. Not like the White House, you know....
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Pentagon says ex-SEAL book contains secrets

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    This is an undated file photo shows al Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, in Afghanistan. A former Navy SEAL's insider account of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden contains classified information, the Pentagon said Tuesday, and the admiral who heads the Naval Special Warfare Command said details in the book may provide enemies with dangerous insight into their secretive operations. (AP Photo)





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    A former Navy SEAL's insider account of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden contains classified information, the Pentagon said Tuesday, and the admiral who heads the Naval Special Warfare Command said details in the book may provide enemies with dangerous insight into their secretive operations.
    Rear Adm. Sean Pybus told his force Tuesday that "hawking details about a mission" and selling other details of SEAL training and operations puts the force and their families at risk.
    "For an elite force that should be humble and disciplined for life, we are certainly not appearing to be so," Pybus wrote in a letter to the roughly 8,000 troops under his command. "We owe our chain of command much better than this."
    The letter was obtained by The Associated Press.
    At the Pentagon, press secretary George Little said that an official review of the book, "No Easy Day," determined that it reveals what he called "sensitive and classified" information. He was not more specific but said the author was required to submit the book to the Pentagon before publication for a formal review of potential disclosures of such information.
    And he told reporters during a briefing that the Pentagon is still reviewing what legal options should be taken against the author.
    Pybus, in his letter, was more direct, saying that, "We must immediately reconsider how we properly influence our people in and out of uniform NOT to seek inappropriate monetary, political, or celebrity profit from their service" with the SEALS.
    "We all have much to gain or lose," he said. "In the weeks ahead, we will be taking actions to meet this challenge, and I appreciate your leadership and support of our community in this effort."
    A lawyer for author Matt Bissonnette, who wrote under the pseudonym Mark Owen, has disputed that he was legally obliged to have the book screened before publication.
    Little would not say what damage may result from the book's revelations and he declined to point to any specific portions of the book that contain material that would be considered a violation and a release of classified information.
    Little said the Pentagon has not taken steps to stop the book from being sold on military installations.
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    Default Re: bin Laden is DEAD

    Lies, fraud....

    11.22.13
    by wkchild

    Bin Laden’s Obituary Notice

    by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, PaulCraigRoberts.org:

    A Funeral Notice for Osama bin Laden was published on December 26, 2001, in the Egyptian newspaper al-Ward. An English translation is provided below. Anyone fluent in Arabic is invited to verify or correct the translation. This item was sent to me from a reader abroad.

    Also below are is a CNN interview with its medical correspondent who examines the last non-faked video of bin Laden and concludes that bin Laden is seriously ill.

    There is also below a 2002 report that Israeli intelligence has concluded that bin Laden is dead.

    I cannot attest to the correctness of any of these reports, but it is unclear why there would be so much disinformation from such varied sources about bin Laden’s condition or what purpose is served.

    You can use this information to evaluate the Obama regime’s unsubstantiated claim that Navy SEALs killed bin Laden in Pakistan a decade later.

    Try to identify a single event that the US government has not lied about. Weapons of mass destruction? Iranian nukes? Assad’s chemical attack? Spying on Americans? 9/11? The assassination of President John F. Kennedy? The unemployment rate?

    Osama Bin Laden is dead since December 26, 2001. Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper

    Osama Bin Laden is dead since December 26, 2001. Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper al-Wafd

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